Old handrail brackets --- wedged into the masonry?

Adam Funk

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Jun 7, 2013, 6:46:36 AM6/7/13

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The house came with a staircase handrail attached to the wall by 3
brackets, with a lot of paint on them. The middle one broke off
recently, so I bought 3 new brackets because that way they would all
match in appearance & distance from the wall & because I figured the
other 2 might crack soon anyway. I started picking at the wallpaper
around the broken stub, hoping to find some screw heads to remove the
wall-mount, but instead found this.

http://www.ducksburg.com/diy/20130510-rail-bracket-broken-wall.jpg

http://www.ducksburg.com/diy/20130510-rail-bracket-broken.jpg

http://www.ducksburg.com/diy/20130510-rail-bracket-unbroken.jpg

Before I keep digging up wallpaper & make a big mess, is it likely
that the old brackets were wedged into the masonry rather than screwed
on? Any tips for digging the other 2 brackets & the middle stub out
with minimal damage?

Thanks,
Adam

Gazz

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Jun 7, 2013, 7:22:44 AM6/7/13

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"Adam Funk" <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote in message
news:c9q88ax...@news.ducksburg.com...

> The house came with a staircase handrail attached to the wall by 3
> brackets, with a lot of paint on them. The middle one broke off
> recently,

> Any tips for digging the other 2 brackets & the middle stub out
> with minimal damage?

All together now..... "ANGLE GRINDER" :)

sm_jamieson

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Jun 7, 2013, 7:36:02 AM6/7/13

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Can be tricky.
I had a sink fitted on cast iron prongs buried in the masonry, about 4 inches deep. They had rusted and expanded and were stuck fast. Much levering and pulling, etc. Luckily I was taking the room back to brick, so it did not matter when then bricks below the window came away !
Simon.

Mentalguy2k8

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Jun 7, 2013, 7:50:32 AM6/7/13

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"sm_jamieson" <sm_ja...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:30a4b4ae-92d6-4f68...@googlegroups.com...

>Can be tricky.
>I had a sink fitted on cast iron prongs buried in the masonry, about 4
>inches deep. They had rusted and expanded and were stuck fast. Much
>levering and pulling, etc. Luckily I >was taking the room back to brick, so
>it did not matter when then bricks below the window came away !

We've come up with so many ingenious ideas for immovable fixings and bonds
and adhesives that I pity the poor sods trying to DIY in 30 years time,
because there doesn't seem to be as much research into how to take the
bloody things out again. They'll probably have to take out the foundations &
a supporting wall just to remove a shelf bracket. Builder's skips will be
full of huge chunks of masonry held together by No More Nails.

Adam Funk

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Jun 7, 2013, 9:40:16 AM6/7/13

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No, I said MINIMAL not MAXIMAL.
;-)

sm_jamieson

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Jun 7, 2013, 10:06:08 AM6/7/13

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In my 1930s house wherever joist ends butt up to other joists (trimmers around stairs etc), they are held with 3 massive nails bashed through one joist into the end grain of the other. Seems to be just as strong as joist hangers.
I think the primary tool used to build the house was a hammer !

All skirtings and picture rails are nailed into blocks of wood wedged into the masonry. The blocks to hold the picture rails were under the plaster - not sure how they located them when fitting the rails - plasterer marked the plaster as he went along ? Or maybe the plaster dried quicker there and left a tell tale stain.

Simon.

Harry Bloomfield

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Jun 8, 2013, 8:25:28 AM6/8/13

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Adam Funk used his keyboard to write :

> Before I keep digging up wallpaper & make a big mess, is it likely
> that the old brackets were wedged into the masonry rather than screwed
> on? Any tips for digging the other 2 brackets & the middle stub out
> with minimal damage?
>
> Thanks,
> Adam

They might have been set into the masonary, as the house was built, or
even set in lead pored into a hole in the brickwork. Best thing if they
will not come out, is to cut them off with an angle grinder, make good
the plaster and refix the new brackets at a slightly different
location.

Adam Funk

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Jun 8, 2013, 10:07:16 AM6/8/13

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On 2013-06-08, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

> Adam Funk used his keyboard to write :
>> Before I keep digging up wallpaper & make a big mess, is it likely
>> that the old brackets were wedged into the masonry rather than screwed
>> on? Any tips for digging the other 2 brackets & the middle stub out
>> with minimal damage?

> They might have been set into the masonary, as the house was built, or
> even set in lead pored into a hole in the brickwork. Best thing if they

How did they pour lead into a hole in the vertical face of the
brickwork? (I'm assuming they didn't install the brackets as the wall
was actually going up.)

> will not come out, is to cut them off with an angle grinder, make good
> the plaster and refix the new brackets at a slightly different
> location.

Given the thick wood-chip wallpaper, I think I'll do less damage with
a lump hammer & chisel than with an angle grinder, & still end up
something I can patch over reasonably well. I'm planning to move the
rail onto the 3 replacement brackets later today so it sits slightly
above the old ones, then knock the 2 intact old ones out or apart,
then patch all 3 places.

Mike Clarke

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Jun 9, 2013, 6:39:32 AM6/9/13

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Adam Funk wrote:

> I started picking at the wallpaper
> around the broken stub, hoping to find some screw heads to remove the
> wall-mount,

Have you tried digging a bit deeper alongside the bracket? It's hard to
judge the perspective in the photos but the broken end of the bracket looks
rather short. Most currently available brackets will have the vertical bit
about 65mm away from the wall and your handrail looks closer than that.
Could it be that the mounting plates were screwed directly to the brickwork
and then buried under a thick coat of plaster?

--
Mike Clarke

Tim+

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Jun 9, 2013, 7:59:10 AM6/9/13

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I would poke a small tool into the plaster to see how thick it is. It
seems likely to me that the wall has been replastered and the brackets
buried in the new plaster.

Tim

Adam Funk

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Jun 14, 2013, 3:23:26 PM6/14/13

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I realize I'm asking to be contradicted on this: but I can't think of
a good reason to glue shelf brackets to masonry instead of using plugs
& screws.

(I guess there's "I don't have a hammer drill", but that's not a
*good* reason here in uk.d-i-y, is it?)

Adam Funk

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Jun 19, 2013, 12:32:02 PM6/19/13

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On 2013-06-09, Tim+ wrote:

> Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:

>> Given the thick wood-chip wallpaper, I think I'll do less damage with
>> a lump hammer & chisel than with an angle grinder, & still end up
>> something I can patch over reasonably well. I'm planning to move the
>> rail onto the 3 replacement brackets later today so it sits slightly
>> above the old ones, then knock the 2 intact old ones out or apart,
>> then patch all 3 places.
>
> I would poke a small tool into the plaster to see how thick it is. It
> seems likely to me that the wall has been replastered and the brackets
> buried in the new plaster.

The middle bracket (the one that broke) is definitely wedged into the
masonry, as shown in the photos. I used various combinations of
hammers & chisels & failed to shift the wedges.

http://www.ducksburg.com/diy/20130617-bracket0.jpg
http://www.ducksburg.com/diy/20130617-bracket1.jpg

I can fill that hole & patch over it.

The rail is now held up by three new brackets with a little bit of
clearance over the old ones (no longer attached to the rail) so I can
attack the other two at leisure. I think I will have to borrow a
brother-in-law's angle-grinder for that. I hope I can borrow a
brother-in-law too.