Timeguard ZV700B

[Frank]

Has anyone any experience of installing a Timeguard ZV700B?

I've replaced a standard wall switch with one and the 7W LED lamp it
feeds has a gentle glow. The Timeguard instructions say it takes four
hours to charge its internal battery (though I've seen 24 hours
mentioned elsewhere). Could that be the reason for the glow as it's only
been in an hour or so?

--
Frank

[Andy Burns]

It says "2-wire no neutral required" so it's vampiring its own power
through the lamp, for an LED that could be enough to make it glow, or
flash at intervals ... try a different LED lamp (if the current one is
dimmable try one that isn't or vice-versa).

[alan_m]

Last line of page 3 in the manual.

Quote
Note, the ZV700B is not designed for use with LED or discharge lighting.


<https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1220659/Time-Guard-Zv700b.html?page=3#manual>


--
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[Andy Burns]

alan_m wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> It says "2-wire no neutral required" so it's vampiring its own power
>> through the lamp, for an LED that could be enough to make it glow, or
>> flash at intervals ... try a different LED lamp (if the current one is
>> dimmable try one that isn't or vice-versa).
>
> Last line of page 3 in the manual.
>
> Quote
> Note, the ZV700B is not designed for use with LED or discharge lighting.

The manual I read said LEDs were supported ... from the horse's mouth

<https://www.timeguard.com/products/light/automatic-light-switches/zv700b-digital-light-switch-with-optional-dusk-start/>

"LED Lighting:
Minimum 5W (individual)
Maximum 20W total load
(Each 5W minimum)

The LED switching capabilities of this product can be
increased to 200W by the addition of the Timeguard
ZV900 Automatic switch load controller"

[Frank]

On 02/10/2023 12:04, Andy Burns wrote:

Thanks, I replaced the LED with an incandescent which flickered slightly
and couldn't be turned off until the unit was fully charged when it when
off of its own accord. I set the the Timeguard up and it worked as it
should.

Replaced the incandescent with the 7W LED and I get a single flash when
I turn the light on, then the glow returns. I'll find and try another
LED tomorrow as you suggest.

--
Frank

[Frank]

I can assure you it is designed for LEDs. The manual says so and so does
Timeguard's Technical Department.

The ZV700 the B replaces was not

--
Frank

[Brian Gaff]

Could you have one of the older designs?
There seem to be any number of suggested fixes for this in LEDs, from a
resistor across the lamp to using a relay.
Brian

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[alan_m]

On 03/10/2023 11:32, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Could you have one of the older designs?
> There seem to be any number of suggested fixes for this in LEDs, from a
> resistor across the lamp to using a relay.
> Brian
>

The Timeguard suggested solution is to buy another module at around £20.

This product requires to be permanently charged which
is achieved through the switched Live. As such, some LED
and CFL lamps may glow or flash whilst this product is
in the “OFF” status. This glow/flash can be eliminated
by adding the Timeguard ZV900 Automatic switch load
controller to the circuit. The ZV900 is sold separately

[Frank]

The ZV700B is the latest version designed for LEDs.

--
Frank

On 03/10/2023 11:32, Brian Gaff wrote:

[Frank]

Thanks, I'm aware of that but Timeguard Technical say it shouldn't need
the ZV900.

--
Frank

[alan_m]

If you look at the reviews on Amazon you will find that nearly everyone
says they don't work with LEDs including those who have subsequently
purchased the ZV900. The reviewers all complain about glowing and
flashing lights when the switch is on the off position.

There may be some LED bulbs they do work with but, in general, you have
no way of knowing what configuration of electronics in the base of the
bulb has been used unless you take one apart. The electronics may be a
simple capacitor current limiter or maybe a rarer switched mode supply,
or something else. There is also a indication that if there is more
than one bulb on the switch they may have to be all the same

[charles]

In article <ko4g1r...@mid.individual.net>,

Light bulbs usually say "dimable" or "non-dimable". It's probably the
dimable ones that are OK. Mind you, when you fitted the bulb a year or so
ago, and thrown away the packaging, you will have forgotten which type you
have.

--
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[alan_m]

On 04/10/2023 08:15, charles wrote:

>
> Light bulbs usually say "dimable" or "non-dimable". It's probably the
> dimable ones that are OK. Mind you, when you fitted the bulb a year or so
> ago, and thrown away the packaging, you will have forgotten which type you
> have.

Dimmable may not solve the problem

The problem is similar/identical to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzWz_guJHvY

In the case of the Timeguard switch the problem is worse because by
design the switched live is never truly turned off. A small current flow
is needed to keep the battery topped up and this small current is likely
to be more than described in BigClive's video. This current always flows
through the LED lamp. In the case of a dimmable LED lamp it will still
see the full cycle of mains or equivalent to a full brightness setting
on a dimmer switch, albeit with limited low current in the case of the
Timegaurd switch.

The video possibly explains why the people who subsequently purchased
the Timeguard ZV900 Automatic switch load controller at £20+ had no luck
in solving the problem. The zv900 is likely to just be a electronic
relay as shown in the video.

[nib]

Possibly slightly different problem, but when I wanted to use an
electronic switch with no neutral, ie one powered by a small leakage
current through the load when off, with a CFL bulb which didn't conduct
at all until it ignited, I used a small AC capacitor across the lamp, the
type often used for interference suppression. That worked well enough.

Maybe it would leak enough through to keep your LED bulb from flickering.

nib

[Frank]

A Morrisons 13.6W dimmable is the answer.

--
Frank