How to tighten gland nut earthing ring?

[Chris Green]

Is there any sensible way to tighten SWA gland earthing ring nuts?
Even on the smallest size (20mm hole) the gland nut is 24mm or 25mm
and I've never managed to find a spanner of that size that has any
chance of getting at the nut.

You can't tighten from the outside because that would twist the wire -
or is the correct technique to tighten the gland in the box before
tightening the cone nut (if so the DIYFAQ needs to be changed or added
to to indicate this is how to do it)?

I guess a short stub of a box spanner with a tommy bar welded on might
do the job but I doubt if you can get a socket onto the nut, it's too
thin. I don't have any box spanners this big anyway.

--
Chris Green
·

[ARW]

Hammer and large flat screwdriver?

--
Adam

[Andy Burns]

Chris Green wrote:

> Is there any sensible way to tighten SWA gland earthing ring nuts?

chuck it away an use a piranha earth nut?

[Chris Green]

Yes, I guess that's one answer, but they are expensive, more than
doubling the cost.

E.g. Screwfix:-

Tower Rubber Exterior Gland Kit 20S 2 Pack £2.99
Earthing Nut 2020 2 Pack £5.79

--
Chris Green
·

[Theo]

Chris Green <c...@isbd.net> wrote:
> Is there any sensible way to tighten SWA gland earthing ring nuts?
> Even on the smallest size (20mm hole) the gland nut is 24mm or 25mm
> and I've never managed to find a spanner of that size that has any
> chance of getting at the nut.
>
> You can't tighten from the outside because that would twist the wire -
> or is the correct technique to tighten the gland in the box before
> tightening the cone nut (if so the DIYFAQ needs to be changed or added
> to to indicate this is how to do it)?

I came across this video yesterday with a different technique using a pair
of adjustable spanners - not sure if it answers the question as I've not
worked with SWA:

https://youtu.be/KJfbhnUKKUE?t=927

Theo

[charles]

In article <a1oujh-...@esprimo.zbmc.eu>,

In my tool box is a spanner designed for doing up these nuts. No idea when
or where I bought it. It's a seriously modified ring spanner.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Chris Green]

Yes, a ring spanner would probably do it, I'm not sure I have one that
big but it's almost worth buying one specially.

--
Chris Green
·

[Andrew]

Ah. The well known Geordie Shipwrights spanner :-)

Would one of those semi-circular spanners used many moons
ago to tighten the bottom bracket nuts on a bicycle do the
trick ?.

[Andrew]

"Water pump" pliers I believe.

[Andy Burns]

Andrew wrote:

> ARW wrote:
>
>> Chris Green wrote:
>>
>>> Is there any sensible way to tighten SWA gland earthing ring nuts?
>>

>> Hammer and large flat screwdriver?
>

> Would one of those semi-circular spanners used many moons
> ago to tighten the bottom bracket nuts on a bicycle do the
> trick ?.

A bit expensive, but there's this which is for conduit bushes, but would
it also suit gland nuts?

<https://thebushsocket.com>

[Chris Green]

OP here. I've searched around quite a lot about this and I'm
horrified by the bodges that seem to be standard electrician's methods
for doing this.

The "Hammer and large flat screwdriver" approach seems quite popular
and the other common approach is water pump pliers, preferably with
smooth jaws so they don't mark the nuts! When you read all the quite
specific, complex requirements of the wiring regulations you somehow
think electricians aren't bodgers but they are!

There are a few spanners around to specifically fit the back nuts but
it's near impossible to find what size the nuts are so it's quite
difficult to get a 'proper' spanner.

I've measure the nuts I want to tighten, they're 25mm (why on earth
aren't they the same size as the gland nuts themselves?) and I have a
i" ring spanner which should fit OK eve if it's a bit loose.

Hammers and screwdrivers!! Grips, pliers and adjustable spanners,
ugh!!! (Mr Royce or was it Rolls supposedly sacked someone for using
an adjustable spanner)

--
Chris Green
·

[noth...@aolbin.com]

As someone else (I think) said: you could cut a section out of a ring
spanner. Alternatively, grind an undersize open-ended spanner to fit or
cut yourself a bespoke spanner out of some gauge plate.

[Spike]

On 06/04/2021 19:05, Chris Green wrote:

> Is there any sensible way to tighten SWA gland earthing ring nuts?
> Even on the smallest size (20mm hole) the gland nut is 24mm or 25mm
> and I've never managed to find a spanner of that size that has any
> chance of getting at the nut.

> I guess a short stub of a box spanner with a tommy bar welded on might
> do the job but I doubt if you can get a socket onto the nut, it's too
> thin. I don't have any box spanners this big anyway.

Sounds like something in the style of a plug spanner for single-cylinder
Velocettes:

https://www.groveclassicmotorcycles.co.uk/A554-Plug-Spanner-with-Handle---14mm

The BSA plug spanner is similar. I'm sure the ones I had were shorter,
but we're talking sixty years ago...

--
Spike

[John Rumm]

On 06/04/2021 20:05, Chris Green wrote:

I have a small set of waterpump style pliers that can just about get
onto the standard back nuts. Quite often I ditch the standard nut and
use a Piranha nut instead since they are much easier to get a grip on,
and also give you a handy earth tag fixing point without needing the
banjo tag.



--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Chris Green]

As you say, quite expensive, and you can't use it with the cable in
the gland which would be the normal situation if you've assembled it
as describe in the DIY FAQ.

--
Chris Green
·

[Thomas Prufer]

On Wed, 7 Apr 2021 11:39:27 +0100, Chris Green <c...@isbd.net> wrote:

>Hammers and screwdrivers!! Grips, pliers and adjustable spanners,
>ugh!!! (Mr Royce or was it Rolls supposedly sacked someone for using
>an adjustable spanner)

"Knipex Adjustable Wrench Pliers" (8605150) got to 27mm, and the jaws are
smooth...?

Very nice, but expensive.



Thomas Prufer

[Theo]

> "Water pump" pliers I believe.

No, the video is saying that the Bahco thin adjustable spanners are better
than the water pump pliers technique. I couldn't comment.

Theo

[newshound]

On 06/04/2021 20:05, Chris Green wrote:

You can get a mole-type wrench with long pointy jaws that will do it.

Several on Google, or check Amazon for BGS 474

[Chris Green]

Yes, exactly! That's almost the perfect tool for the job at
installation time when the cable isn't connected. Probably quite
cheap too, box spanners don't have to be made of particularly hard
material.

--
Chris Green
·

[Chris Green]

John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> On 06/04/2021 20:05, Chris Green wrote:
> > Is there any sensible way to tighten SWA gland earthing ring nuts?
> > Even on the smallest size (20mm hole) the gland nut is 24mm or 25mm
> > and I've never managed to find a spanner of that size that has any
> > chance of getting at the nut.
> >
> > You can't tighten from the outside because that would twist the wire -
> > or is the correct technique to tighten the gland in the box before
> > tightening the cone nut (if so the DIYFAQ needs to be changed or added
> > to to indicate this is how to do it)?
> >
> > I guess a short stub of a box spanner with a tommy bar welded on might
> > do the job but I doubt if you can get a socket onto the nut, it's too
> > thin. I don't have any box spanners this big anyway.
>
> I have a small set of waterpump style pliers that can just about get
> onto the standard back nuts. Quite often I ditch the standard nut and
> use a Piranha nut instead since they are much easier to get a grip on,
> and also give you a handy earth tag fixing point without needing the
> banjo tag.
>

Yes, as I said above I really don't understand why the standard nuts
are so thin and bigger that all the other nuts on the glands.

--
Chris Green
·

[Chris Green]

I just don't see how these help really, they're no easier to get into
the right place (more difficult in fact) than an ordinary spanner of
the correct size are they? Whatever you do you'll slip sometimes and
graunch the nut a bit, smooth jaws or not.

The only thing they seem to provide is a way of holding large nuts
where you don't have the right size spanner. I have open ended
spanners in 1mm steps up to over 30mm and many other sorts up to 24 or
25mm so I see little need for adjustable grips.

Am I missing something?

--
Chris Green
·

[ARW]

On 07/04/2021 11:39, Chris Green wrote:

So why not reverse engineer it:-;?

Why not make off the SWA, fit it to the gland and then remove it from
the gland.

Then fit the cone section and the earthing nut with ease and then remake
the SWA termination onto to the gland.

If you are doing it properly just after you have "finished" you realise
that the boot is on the wrong way around etc.




--
Adam

[Spike]

Having had a number of single-cylinder Velocettes, I now recall the plug
spanner came in different forms. Most were a short box spanner with
loose tommy-bar as shown in the link. but one I had was based on a very
short box spanner, shortened to just above the flats, with a short
tommy-bar welded or brazed onto one side of the spanner. Doing this made
it quite short in height, and turned upside down it looked like a pipe
for smoking tobacco. Box spanners are cheap and cheerful, and if anyone
wanted to DIY a tool for tightening the SWA gland nut, this could be a
way to go.


--
Spike

[John Rumm]

Although if the cable is in place, you have to be able to thread the box
spanner onto it, past the tommy bar, so that you can get it anywhere
near the nut.

[Chris Green]

But it's doable with a box spanner, unless the cable is actually
connected, as you can thread the cable through the box and past the
tommy bar.

A short piece of box spanner with a handle welded on (rather than
going right through) seems to be the ideal solution to me, why
electricians toolboxes don't have such a thing as 'standard' I can't
understand.

Socket and ring spanners are not so good because they tend to have a
chamfer at the working face so, given that the SWA ring nut is so
thin, they don't hold well. A box spanner generally doesn't have such
a chamfer.

A set of such things (box spanner with welded on tommy bar) for, say,
25mm to 35mm in 1mm steps would be ideal and should be very cheap as
well. Maybe I'll go into business! :-)

--
Chris Green
·

[John Rumm]

I suspect the answer is that its not considered enough of a problem to
make a special tool worthwhile. (much as I like "the right tool for the
job", I am also conscious that my electrical tool box is 'kin heavy
already!)

(it may also be there is enough variation in the locknut sizes as to
make one tool a non starter anyway in much the same way as there will be
times you always need an adjustable of some sort for some plumbing jobs).

I tend to find in many cases you simply need to stop the inner nut
spinning, and then you can tighten from the outside - before fitting
the SWA to the gland permanently (i.e. not inserted at all, or inserted
but the the armour grip nit not fully tightened).

In those cases just jamming something (e.g. screwdriver between end of
case and nut or between two adjacent nuts) against the inside nut is
enough to start tightening against it from outside, and then it tends to
hold in place anyway once its got a bit of grip.

On the rare occasions I use banjo nut rather than a piranha, I find my
small (6" or so) grips work well enough since they have one slim jaw,
and can grip well and parallel onto the opposing flats of the nut. They
also grip when pointing perpendicular at the nut, and that gives some
clearance over any cable coming through the gland). It also helps that
when the banjo tag is in place, that spaces the slim nut away from the
enclosure a bit making it easier to grip.