Sagging Kitchen Wall Cupboards

[simon mitchelmore]

I've just installed a new Wickes kitchen and I'm disappointed that both the 800 wide wall unit bottoms sag noticeably in the centre (between the two sides) when loaded with an ordinary loads of tins or plates. The sag is about 10mm in the centre and is noticeable as it sags below the front lower edge of the doors.

I probably will raise it with them but expect to be fobbed off with 'they're not meant for heavy loads' crap so am looking for a fall back diy solution.

My options appear to be;
1/ a long vertical M6 stud and nuts, from above the top to below the bottom, very unsightly, maybe 6mm rod with just ends threaded might look ok.
2/ cut another shelf to lay directly on the bottom and help support it
3/ attach another layer below the bottom. I've noticed they use beefy 15mm trims on showroom units but thought they were cosmetic only and they only go back about 100mm, so the back would still sag.

Weirdly the internal shelves being thicker ~18mm don't sag at all whereas the frame top and bottom being thinner ~14mm do sag.

Two questions; is this normal on mid priced units, and is there a better technical solution?

I'm advised by SWMBO that redistributing stuff is not an option.

[Capitol]

I always use B & Q units to avoid this. Homebase expensive units are
the same.

[tabb...@gmail.com]

Screw the bendy bit to the wall at the back, either with a neat strip of wood or a white plastic block. If you show details of this saggy area there are other neat options. If you don't mind posting your sagginess in public.


NT

[Tim Watts]

How about a 2"x1" batten all the way along the wall underneath to
support? You probably won't see it in normal use.

[Moron Watch]

"simon mitchelmore" <mitch...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:f37bdb46-6494-4866...@googlegroups.com...

> I've just installed a new Wickes kitchen and I'm disappointed that both the 800 wide
> wall unit
> bottoms sag noticeably in the centre > (between the two sides) when loaded with an
> ordinary
> loads of tins or plates.
> The sag is about 10mm in the > centre and is noticeable as it sags below the front
> lower edge
> of the doors.

> I probably will raise it with them but expect to be fobbed off with 'they're not meant
> for heavy loads'
> crap so am looking for a fall back diy solution.

> My options appear to be;
> 1/ a long vertical M6 stud and nuts, from above the top to below the bottom, very
> unsightly, maybe
> 6mm rod with just ends threaded might look ok.

You don't say whether the cupboard is MDF or chip, and what the surface finish is inside
the
cupboard. But assuming its white the simplest solution would be a central divider made
out of
15mm white melamine faced chip. You only need a finished edge on one side the edge
facing
outward. Cut and then trimmed to fit.
While its still a good tight fit, meaure up and mark its centre line on the outside of
the top and the
base. Drill through with say a 3mm pilot through the top and base into the divider.
Contrary to popular belief even 15mm chipboard can be satisfactorily screwed together
using screws and plastic plugs providing the right size plugs (almost invariably the
shortest)
drill bit, drilling depth and screws are used. (Best found by experiment unless written
down
on a piece of paper, or in a notebook which hasn't subsequently been lost)

Using the 3mm pilot holes as locators in the divider, drill appropriate size holes and
fit plugs.
Widen the holes the top and base and assemble.

> 2/ cut another shelf to lay directly on the bottom and help support it

This would be second best. I only say this because this solution would be adding more
weight
to the bottom of the cabinet. And possibly these these are so "economically made" in
terms
of materials that adding more weight in this way might compromise the overall
construction.
Basically if it sags in the way does, who's to say it the sides might not start straining
at the joints as well ?

> 3/ attach another layer below the bottom. I've noticed they use beefy 15mm trims on
> showroom units but thought they were cosmetic only and they only go back about
> 100mm, so the back would still sag.

> Weirdly the internal shelves being thicker ~18mm don't sag at all whereas the frame top
> and bottom being thinner ~14mm do sag.

> Two questions; is this normal on mid priced units, and is there a better technical
> solution?

Basically IMO anything which alters the outside appearance of the unit is unacceptable.
Not that alterations of this kind should be necessary in the first place. Quite possibly
the
technical specifications of these particular Wickes units specify a maximum loading
- not that you'd ever know about them until their "customer services" suddently spring
to life and draw them to your attention. But even then these limits might be expected to
be reasonable.

IMO on the information you've provide you're entitled to a full refund as these
particular
units aren't fit for purpose. Using 14mm as opposed to 18mm IMO seems like
needless pennypinching which will save pennies per unit if that. More especially
as machines will need to be specially reset . Basically its much easier if a whole
shop is set to 18mm as there's less scope for mistakes etc.

> I'm advised by SWMBO that redistributing stuff is not an option.

This is an interesting conundrum and provides an excuse to visit a Wickes in the near
future armed with a tape measure and an enquiring mind.

[spuorg...@gowanhill.com]

On Tuesday, 27 December 2016 22:58:17 UTC, simon mitchelmore wrote:

> I've just installed a new Wickes kitchen and I'm disappointed that
> both the 800 wide wall unit bottoms sag noticeably in the centre
> (between the two sides) when loaded with an ordinary loads of tins
> or plates.

Thank you for the warning. I had planned a Wickes kitchen with 1000mm wall units and I have larger than average loads of tins and plates.

Owain

[simon mitchelmore]

> Thank you for the warning. I had planned a Wickes kitchen with 1000mm wall units and I have larger than average loads of tins and plates.

Ironically the 1000 units are fine because they have a central pillar to support the shelf, the 800 units don't hence the problem.

Thanks Moron Watch, will probably try the divider suggestion next, do you mean wall plugs when you mention 'plastic plugs'? I was wondering about drilling a longish 3mm hole then whacking in some 5 or 6 mm self tappers. Would plastic plugs be stronger?

[mechanic]

On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 02:39:18 -0800 (PST), spuorg...@gowanhill.com
wrote:

So stay away from the cheap end of the market. We replaced wall
mounted units with shelves between inward facing walls (reveales?)
The shelves are 1650x350x40mm supported be battens in groves in the
shelf edges, so invisible. No sag. Cheap replacement. Easy access to
plates etc. on the shelf.

[Moron Watch]

"simon mitchelmore" <mitch...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:a8ffca88-58ea-4e5d...@googlegroups.com...

Yes plastic plugs. I've used the yellow ones in the past for horizontal rather
than load bearing joints. Just the standard cheap strips fromToolstation etc.
On the strips there are recommended ranges for screw and drill sizes. From
memory I used the smallest drill size and the largest screw size. Testing this
out on scraps before proceeding any further and adjusting as necessary. Providing
the hole is plumb in the middle of the edge you should be ok. If your pilot is near to
one edge just resite it in the middle.
Its always possible to use longer plugs, reds and browns to accommodate longer thin
gauge screws, Though the recommended screw and drill sizes will maybe need to be
ignored. Again a bit of experimenting with scraps should give the right combination.

A whole industry since the 1930's has been based on the supposition that the sideways
force exerted by a close fitting plug of any kind into any material will be superior to
that
obtainable with a bare thread. Which doesn't necessarily mean that self tappers
might not work providing they were long enough. only that plugs using the appropriate
size drill and screw should provide a stronger solution.

[harry]

On Tuesday, 27 December 2016 22:58:17 UTC, simon mitchelmore wrote:

One way is to replace high load shelves with a bit of thick plywood.
Painted white.

[spuorg...@gowanhill.com]

On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 13:24:20 UTC, mechanic wrote:
> So stay away from the cheap end of the market.

I'm currently at the stuff in cardboard boxes end of the market.

Owain

[newshound]

That's normally the *first* thing I put up when fitting wall cabinets.
Then it is a one-man job to hang them. I add cup hooks every two inches
or so, for hanging kitchen spoons, sieves, peelers, etc.

[newshound]

+1 for B&Q, this is virtually the only thing I would buy there rather
than Wickes, which I generally find to be a good balance of price and
quality.

[newshound]

Not trivial for "entry level" DIYers. A simpler option is an 18 mm
aluminium angle along the edge of the shelf. But as posted elsewhere I
find that a batten along the wall normally provides enough support to
the bottom shelf.

[Tricky Dicky]

If you are screwing into the edge of chipboard, rather than use plugs the most common form of fixing in this circumstance is the Confirmat screw.

Richard

[newshound]

On 12/28/2016 10:16 PM, Tricky Dicky wrote:
> If you are screwing into the edge of chipboard, rather than use plugs the most common form of fixing in this circumstance is the Confirmat screw.
>
> Richard
>

Agreed, with one provision. (This is rather like a Multi Monti but
designed for chipboard, for those not familiar: it has a relatively
large parallel core, requiring a suitable pilot hole, and a thin helical
thread). But they are really designed for T-joints, where the screw goes
through the thickness of one part, then into the edge of another.

I would have said that the right screw to fix an alloy angle along an
edge is either a 4 x 3/4 every four inches or so, or a 6 x 2 perhaps
every 9 inches. Depending on which way you want to fit them. Short,
crosswise are less conspicuous, but need more of them so more work.

Countersunk head, with the strip drilled and countersunk to suit.
Ordinary Quicksilver will work, Turbo Gold type arguably better if you
go the 6 x 2 route. (Metric equivalents would be fine).

[mike]

On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 12:59:39 PM UTC, simon mitchelmore wrote:
> > Thank you for the warning. I had planned a Wickes kitchen with 1000mm wall units and I have larger than average loads of tins and plates.
>
> Ironically the 1000 units are fine because they have a central pillar to support the shelf, the 800 units don't hence the problem.

No, the 1000 units do it too: it just takes another few weeks for it to become apparent. The pelmet doesn't help either. Ours was one of their mid-range, in-store kitchens. Don't know if the top end ones are more reliable. Wickes stuff is usually OK and their kitchens have been recommended on here several times but I wouldn't buy another one. The kitchen in the previous house came from the late MFI and was (surprisingly) far superior.

I've asked various builders/kitchen fitters who they'd recommend and the three names that come up are Howdens, Magnet and diy-kitchens.com

[charles]

In article <68fb18ae-1ead-4a1e...@googlegroups.com>, mike

IKEA ones are pretty good, too - for DIY. Howdens are "trade only".

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England