Electrical Qualifications

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Paul King

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May 12, 2005, 9:33:34 AM5/12/05
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The company I currently work for no longer require me and I, along with 799
of my co-workers, will shortly be shown the door.
I'm thinking of re-training in Electrical Installation and would be grateful
for advice as to which qualifications are needed - and which order to tackle
them in.
All replies appreciated.
--
paul....@theobviousdsl.pipex.com
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Martin Angove

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May 12, 2005, 10:48:39 AM5/12/05
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In message <SMWdnfh27L-...@pipex.net>,
"Paul King" <paul....@theobviousdsl.pipex.com> wrote:

> The company I currently work for no longer require me and I, along with 799
> of my co-workers, will shortly be shown the door.
> I'm thinking of re-training in Electrical Installation and would be grateful
> for advice as to which qualifications are needed - and which order to tackle
> them in.
> All replies appreciated.

The best route is probably to apprentice yourself to some large company
already doing the type of work in which you are interested. If you are
interested in setting up on your own as (say) a domestic electrician I'm
afraid that's a lot more complicated since 1st January 2005.

The problem is Part P of the building regulations which means that most
domestic work now requires building regulation approval; it must be
notified and checked by the building control department of the council,
their appointed representative or alternatively performed by a
self-certifying electrician who then notifies BC.

Becoming self-certifying is no easy task though due to a dreadful bit of
circular logic on the part of NICEIC (one of the six (I think) Approved
Scheme operators); one of the requirements for joining NICEIC is that
your company has to have been performing electrical installations for 12
months prior to your application, but it is difficult to do electrical
work if you are not registered. If you have been working for 12 months
but restricting yourself to "minor works" which often don't have to be
notified then NICEIC will only register you for minor works and there
doesn't appear to be a way to get fully registered unless you are
willing to work for 12 months paying Building Control to come and
inspect all your work. Other scheme operators (ECA, FENSA, NAPIT spring
to mind) have similar requirements.

The other requirements seem quite easy by comparison:

Five hundred quid to register (about, operators vary).

C&G2381 or a direct equivalent is the minimum academic qualification. If
you have no electrical background then other qualifications are
recommended. Most local colleges of FE would be able to offer this
course. If you are unemployed at the moment there is often a reduction
in the fees.

You need copies of various publications, including the latest BS7671.

You need to be able to prove competence in knowledge of BS7671 (that's
what the 2381 tries to prove), Electricity at Work Act and Building
Regulations as they apply to electrical work.

You also need a full set of test equipment, traceable and calibrated and
to know how to use it. C&G 2391 is the inspection and testing course,
but it isn't essential. The equipment may cost upwards of £1,000
depending on which brand you buy, though a lot of cheaper kit is
becoming available since I bought by stuff.

You need a Health and Safety policy, £2million public liability
insurance and insurance in place to be able to offer a 24 month
warrantee on all work.

And there's probably a lot more but I can't remember it right now.

Does this help?

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
... Our OS which art in CPU - RISCOS be thy name .....

Gel

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May 12, 2005, 12:05:59 PM5/12/05
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Stefek Zaba

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May 12, 2005, 1:24:38 PM5/12/05
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Gel wrote:
> http://www.iee.org/forums/forum/
>
Yes, that's a *very* informative forum to follow. For me, it's
interesting to dip into, and my dips have led me to the conclusion that
knowledgeable and competent electricians (a) exist, and (b) account for
a minority of those posting at that forum. Few of the enquiries are at
the 'dear Lord, you *cannot* be unsure of *that*, can you!? Tell me
you're not Qualified and Practicing!", but quite a few are surprisingly
naive.

Of course, it's hard to know how representative of the Trade the posters
are - on the one hand, they're posting to clear up their own
uncertainties, which is (a) a Good Thing, and (b) would account for an
overrepresentation of the uncertain. On the other hand, it does make you
wonder about all those who don't even *know* they don't know (shades of
Mr Rumsfeld here!)

Stefek

big...@meeow.co.uk

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May 12, 2005, 2:18:54 PM5/12/05
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That lines up with my experiences of domestic sparks. I always ask
their advice on something basic out of curiosity, and mostly dont get
the right answers. Theyre very sure of themselves though.

How representative my small sample is of the national population of
sparks I dont know, but it sure says something about part pee.


NT

Paul King

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May 12, 2005, 3:46:41 PM5/12/05
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Martin Angove wrote:
> Does this help?
>
Yes - Thankyou. Indeed it does.
For the sake of argument, consider that I have no prior experience (I have -
just not formally qualified). Should I take the IEE 16th Edition Regs course
(C&G2381) first, or the EAL Level2 VRQ for Domestic Electrical Installers
first? The NICEIC site
http://www.niceic.org.uk/partp/training_guidance_flowchart.html says to do
the EAL first then IEE 16th Ed. However, the local FE College says that the
IEE 16 Ed is a pre-requisite for the EAL!!!

OTOH the NICEIC site above seems to say that if I do just the IEE 16th Ed
(C&G 2381) then I'd be qualified to join the Domestic Installer Scheme and
could then go on to do C&G2391 and/or other NICEIC approved courses.

Any views?

Dave Plowman (News)

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May 12, 2005, 2:54:47 PM5/12/05
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In article <1115921934.1...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,

<big...@meeow.co.uk> wrote:
> That lines up with my experiences of domestic sparks. I always ask
> their advice on something basic out of curiosity, and mostly dont get
> the right answers. Theyre very sure of themselves though.

> How representative my small sample is of the national population of
> sparks I dont know, but it sure says something about part pee.

Heh heh. I work with sparks when filming. And they're all time served.

Just for a laugh, I asked about the new three phase colours. Not *one*
knew out of about 10.

Years ago, I got railroaded into an interview board for employing staff
sparks for studio work. Don't ask why. ;-)

Board consisted of one senior engineer, one personnel type, and me. A
sound recordist.

The others waffled on about health and safety. I asked for a sketch of
the schematic for a switch start fluorescent. One out of twenty managed it.

--
*INDECISION is the key to FLEXIBILITY *

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Mike

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May 12, 2005, 6:03:20 PM5/12/05
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"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4d6a067...@davenoise.co.uk...

> Just for a laugh, I asked about the new three phase colours. Not *one*
> knew out of about 10.
>
> Years ago, I got railroaded into an interview board for employing staff
> sparks for studio work. Don't ask why. ;-)
>
> Board consisted of one senior engineer, one personnel type, and me. A
> sound recordist.
>
> The others waffled on about health and safety. I asked for a sketch of
> the schematic for a switch start fluorescent. One out of twenty managed
it.


Have you ever tried asking them how to wire up separate bits of kit
(lighting and sound) onto a three phase socket ? Once found somebody
who''d delta'ed the connections around the three phases (P1 - L1/N3, P2 -
L2/N1, P3 - L3/N1). Fortunately he then noticed the unused terminal and
decided to come and ask before he switched it on.

Martin Angove

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May 12, 2005, 6:06:12 PM5/12/05
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In message <1115927238.e3ee5d3ac09bdc5a53319fe03a2e2a05@teranews>,
"Paul King" <paul....@theobviousdsl.pipex.com> wrote:

> Martin Angove wrote:
> > Does this help?
> >
> Yes - Thankyou. Indeed it does.
> For the sake of argument, consider that I have no prior experience (I have -
> just not formally qualified). Should I take the IEE 16th Edition Regs course
> (C&G2381) first, or the EAL Level2 VRQ for Domestic Electrical Installers
> first? The NICEIC site
> http://www.niceic.org.uk/partp/training_guidance_flowchart.html says to do
> the EAL first then IEE 16th Ed. However, the local FE College says that the
> IEE 16 Ed is a pre-requisite for the EAL!!!
>

I would have thought it would be possible to do the two at the same
time. Certainly when I did my 2381 it was an evening course, something
like 12*3 hours spread over 3 or 4 months (Mondays so a couple of bank
holidays hit that).

> OTOH the NICEIC site above seems to say that if I do just the IEE 16th Ed
> (C&G 2381) then I'd be qualified to join the Domestic Installer Scheme and
> could then go on to do C&G2391 and/or other NICEIC approved courses.
>
> Any views?

Yeah, you may be qualified, but unless there is some dodge I've not
noticed the NICEIC aren't going to register you until you have been
trading for 12 months. There was a rumour they were going to make it 6
months, but it's still 12 in the documentation I have. As I mentioned
before this is a classic catch-22. Without registration you'll find it
hard to get work. Without work you can't register.

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology

... Hello, I am part number 竟瑎竟喊竟摀端陶

dennis@home

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May 12, 2005, 6:11:55 PM5/12/05
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"Paul King" <paul....@theobviousdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:SMWdnfh27L-...@pipex.net...

> The company I currently work for no longer require me and I, along with
> 799
> of my co-workers, will shortly be shown the door.

Which bit of Marconi do you work for?


Lobster

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May 13, 2005, 2:46:48 AM5/13/05
to
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> Years ago, I got railroaded into an interview board for employing staff
> sparks for studio work. Don't ask why. ;-)
>
> Board consisted of one senior engineer, one personnel type, and me. A
> sound recordist.
>
> The others waffled on about health and safety. I asked for a sketch of
> the schematic for a switch start fluorescent. One out of twenty managed it.

And did he get the job? :-)

David


Paul King

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May 13, 2005, 4:08:55 AM5/13/05
to

The bit which *DOESN'T* manufacture any kit for the new BT 21CN contract -
the bit that's being held out to dry 'cos they're moving all UK production
offshore, because it's cheaper to sack UK employees than our European
counterparts. The employment rights in Italy and Germany are such that they
have jobs for life. Italy (where the BT 21CN product *IS* made) were offered
3 years salary AND 10,000 euros, not one took the offer up - so we get
sacked instead!

big...@meeow.co.uk

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May 13, 2005, 2:00:11 PM5/13/05
to
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <1115921934.1...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> <big...@meeow.co.uk> wrote:
> > That lines up with my experiences of domestic sparks. I always ask
> > their advice on something basic out of curiosity, and mostly dont
get
> > the right answers. Theyre very sure of themselves though.
>
> > How representative my small sample is of the national population of
> > sparks I dont know, but it sure says something about part pee.
>
> Heh heh. I work with sparks when filming. And they're all time
served.
>
> Just for a laugh, I asked about the new three phase colours. Not
*one*
> knew out of about 10.
>
> Years ago, I got railroaded into an interview board for employing
staff
> sparks for studio work. Don't ask why. ;-)
>
> Board consisted of one senior engineer, one personnel type, and me.
A
> sound recordist.
>
> The others waffled on about health and safety. I asked for a sketch
of
> the schematic for a switch start fluorescent. One out of twenty
managed it.

shaking head here. Have added this lot to my part pee pre-faq.

NT

Dave Plowman (News)

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May 13, 2005, 4:02:43 PM5/13/05
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In article <s3Yge.3858$V%.2234@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net>,

You're not going to like the answer. No. It went to the only female there.
Who I suspect had been fast tracked through the usual weed out via the
application forms - only about 10% get as far as a board. And there were a
lot of 'ethnic minorities' in of the 20 too.

Before anyone starts, TV at that time had very few blacks or Asians in the
'craft' sections. Still, really, the same. So I'm well in favour of giving
'them' a good crack of the whip at interview time. But then I want it to
be the best applicant who wins regardless - because I may have to rely on
their skills.

However, she turned out to be a valuable addition to the studio team -
very keen and helpful.

--
*The hardness of the butter is proportional to the softness of the bread *

Owain

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May 14, 2005, 6:45:07 AM5/14/05
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>>And did he get the job? :-)
> You're not going to like the answer. No. It went to the only female there.

Did she have nice tits ;-)

> However, she turned out to be a valuable addition to the studio team -
> very keen and helpful.

Yebbut, did she have nice tits ;-)

Owain


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