Optimum Height Of Window Radiator
Usenet Nutter
some prep work and am siting a new radiator below the window .I did
try a 600 x 900 that I had for the other end of the LR but it was
going to be too tall so I ordered a 500 x 1000 that arrived unscathed
this morning ...well done to the Fed-Ex one man team who carried it on
his shoulder up 2 flights of stairs ...
The new windows includes a new hardwood sill so I don't want it to be
above the rad but is there an optimum position for the height of the
rad or is it just down to personal choice .I don't know what thickness
the new sill will be but working on it being the same as the old one
..about 20cm...the top of the rad will be about 20 cm above the sill.
Does that sound about right . That lets me get rid of the full length
curtains that I have now and get ones down to the sill ( or slightly
below) which will close with the rad in front of them .
The Natural Philosopher
> Prior to getting new windows in my Living Room on 11th Jan I am doing
> some prep work and am siting a new radiator below the window .I did
> try a 600 x 900 that I had for the other end of the LR but it was
> going to be too tall so I ordered a 500 x 1000 that arrived unscathed
> this morning ...well done to the Fed-Ex one man team who carried it on
> his shoulder up 2 flights of stairs ...
> The new windows includes a new hardwood sill so I don't want it to be
> above the rad
why ever NOT?
> but is there an optimum position for the height of the
> rad or is it just down to personal choice .I don't know what thickness
> the new sill will be but working on it being the same as the old one
> ..about 20cm...the top of the rad will be about 20 cm above the sill.
> Does that sound about right .
Souds crap to me. You want it below the sill so that it still heats the
room with curtians drawn, at least.
> That lets me get rid of the full length
> curtains that I have now and get ones down to the sill ( or slightly
> below) which will close with the rad in front of them .
>
I dont follow this. If they are below the cill and the rad is above,
then you are pumping heat into the windows, not the room.
F
> ...is there an optimum position for the height of the
> rad or is it just down to personal choice .
Stelrad specify the *bottom* of the radiator 200mm above the floor for
optimum effectiveness.
--
F
Usenet Nutter
<indivi...@takeoutmyteethgmail.com> wrote:
>I don't know what thickness
>the new sill will be but working on it being the same as the old one
>..about 20cm...the top of the rad will be about 20 cm above the sill.
Those should be 20mm not cm
Usenet Nutter
Well there's no way I can do that with this 500mm rad as that would
make it look silly given the height of the bottom of the windows
...It's about 115mm in it's temp'y position and looks ok.....Having
said that the other old rads I still have in use are about 8" above
the floor
Usenet Nutter
<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>Usenet Nutter wrote:
>> Prior to getting new windows in my Living Room on 11th Jan I am doing
>> some prep work and am siting a new radiator below the window .I did
>> try a 600 x 900 that I had for the other end of the LR but it was
>> going to be too tall so I ordered a 500 x 1000 that arrived unscathed
>> this morning ...well done to the Fed-Ex one man team who carried it on
>> his shoulder up 2 flights of stairs ...
>> The new windows includes a new hardwood sill so I don't want it to be
>> above the rad
>
>why ever NOT?
Well you tell me .
http://www.click4carbon.com/ECOInfo/radiators.php
>
>> but is there an optimum position for the height of the
>> rad or is it just down to personal choice .I don't know what thickness
>> the new sill will be but working on it being the same as the old one
>> ..about 20cm...the top of the rad will be about 20 cm above the sill.
>> Does that sound about right .
>
>Souds crap to me. You want it below the sill so that it still heats the
>room with curtians drawn, at least.
>
>
>> That lets me get rid of the full length
>> curtains that I have now and get ones down to the sill ( or slightly
>> below) which will close with the rad in front of them .
>>
>
>I dont follow this. If they are below the cill and the rad is above,
>then you are pumping heat into the windows, not the room.
Well there is a gap behind the rad between it and the sill but the
above site suggests closing the curtains along the sill and not
tucking them behind the rad as this restricts the air flow .
Cicero
================================================
You're not actually bound by Stelrad's recommended optimum height which
may be based on the height of older types of skirting boards. A radiator
closer to the floor is not likely to suffer any serious loss of efficiency.
For what it's worth, I have a 400mm x 1500mm double at 6" above the floor
under one window and it works very adequately although I have nothing to
compare it with.
You might consider exchanging your radiator for a smaller (lower)and
longer to fit the available space. I think a radiator above cill height
will look a bit odd and it will still be close enough to the new cill to
cause damage if that's what you're concerned about.
Cic.
--
=================================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
=================================================
Usenet Nutter
wrote:
>On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:44:45 +0000, Usenet Nutter wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:30:27 +0000, F <news@nowhere> wrote:
>>
>>>On 11/12/2009 12:21 Usenet Nutter wrote:
>>>
>>>> ...is there an optimum position for the height of the rad or is it just
>>>> down to personal choice .
>>>
>>>Stelrad specify the *bottom* of the radiator 200mm above the floor for
>>>optimum effectiveness.
>>
>> Well there's no way I can do that with this 500mm rad as that would make
>> it look silly given the height of the bottom of the windows ...It's about
>> 115mm in it's temp'y position and looks ok.....Having said that the other
>> old rads I still have in use are about 8" above the floor
>
>================================================
>
>You're not actually bound by Stelrad's recommended optimum height which
>may be based on the height of older types of skirting boards. A radiator
>closer to the floor is not likely to suffer any serious loss of efficiency.
>
>For what it's worth, I have a 400mm x 1500mm double at 6" above the floor
>under one window and it works very adequately although I have nothing to
>compare it with.
>
>You might consider exchanging your radiator for a smaller (lower)and
>longer to fit the available space. I think a radiator above cill height
>will look a bit odd and it will still be close enough to the new cill to
>cause damage if that's what you're concerned about.
>
>Cic.
I can still drop it down a bit yet and that'll probably make it pretty
much in line with the new sill . I did think of a 400 high rad but
Screwfix don't list one and I had to consider the heat output as well
The size of this rad is ok and the length is good as it works in well
with where the joists are ( they are not immediately below the
inlet/outlets )
dennis@home
"Usenet Nutter" <indivi...@takeoutmyteethgmail.com> wrote in message
news:tmd4i5pdbcs3it4uo...@4ax.com...
The optimum height is zero.
Its a real waste of energy to heat a window, even a double glazed one.
You want floor to ceiling curtains to keep the heat in and then the radiator
is covered.
The alternative is a wide shelf and curtains down to the shelf, not
something I like.
>
Usenet Nutter
<den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote:
>
>
>"Usenet Nutter" <indivi...@takeoutmyteethgmail.com> wrote in message
>news:tmd4i5pdbcs3it4uo...@4ax.com...
>> Prior to getting new windows in my Living Room on 11th Jan I am doing
>> some prep work and am siting a new radiator below the window .I did
>> try a 600 x 900 that I had for the other end of the LR but it was
>> going to be too tall so I ordered a 500 x 1000 that arrived unscathed
>> this morning ...well done to the Fed-Ex one man team who carried it on
>> his shoulder up 2 flights of stairs ...
>> The new windows includes a new hardwood sill so I don't want it to be
>> above the rad but is there an optimum position for the height of the
>> rad or is it just down to personal choice .I don't know what thickness
>> the new sill will be but working on it being the same as the old one
>> ..about 20cm...the top of the rad will be about 20 cm above the sill.
>> Does that sound about right . That lets me get rid of the full length
>> curtains that I have now and get ones down to the sill ( or slightly
>> below) which will close with the rad in front of them .
>
>The optimum height is zero.
When you say "zero" do you mean rad and sill should be same height ?
>Its a real waste of energy to heat a window, even a double glazed one.
>You want floor to ceiling curtains to keep the heat in and then the radiator
>is covered.
I'm confused by what you say ..why would you want to draw the curtains
in front of the rad ...if that's what you are suggesting ?
>The alternative is a wide shelf and curtains down to the shelf, not
>something I like.
>>
A shelf over the rad is something that seems not to be recommended
judging by what I read when I Googled for this although it also throws
up as many differing opinions as days in the week....I guess you pays
your money and takes your choice .
TheScullster
"Usenet Nutter" wrote in message
news:tmd4i5pdbcs3it4uo...@4ax.com...
You don't say whether the rad is single or double!
I have a 300 x 2000 double under a low window - this is comfortably more
output than 500 x 1000 single.
Curtain goes passed the sill and sits just above top of rad.
Most heat comes into room that way.
Enough height from ground to rad and from rad to sill!
Phil
Andrew Gabriel
Cicero <shel...@hellfire.co.uk> writes:
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:44:45 +0000, Usenet Nutter wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:30:27 +0000, F <news@nowhere> wrote:
>>
>>>On 11/12/2009 12:21 Usenet Nutter wrote:
>>>
>>>> ...is there an optimum position for the height of the rad or is it just
>>>> down to personal choice .
>>>
>>>Stelrad specify the *bottom* of the radiator 200mm above the floor for
>>>optimum effectiveness.
>>
>> Well there's no way I can do that with this 500mm rad as that would make
>> it look silly given the height of the bottom of the windows ...It's about
>> 115mm in it's temp'y position and looks ok.....Having said that the other
>> old rads I still have in use are about 8" above the floor
>
> ================================================
>
> You're not actually bound by Stelrad's recommended optimum height which
> may be based on the height of older types of skirting boards. A radiator
> closer to the floor is not likely to suffer any serious loss of efficiency.
If the clearance at the bottom (from the floor) or at the top (from
a shelf) is less than the depth of the radiator (distance from the
wall to the radiator front), the power output is reduced below that
specified in the datasheet. That's not necessarily a problem, but
it's something you may need to consider when sizing a radiator.
When fitting a radiator into an unfurnished room, remember to allow
for the additional thickness of the floor covering.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
Usenet Nutter
It's a double .
Usenet Nutter
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
>If the clearance at the bottom (from the floor) or at the top (from
>a shelf) is less than the depth of the radiator (distance from the
>wall to the radiator front), the power output is reduced below that
>specified in the datasheet. That's not necessarily a problem, but
>it's something you may need to consider when sizing a radiator.
That's a new piece of the jigsaw ...never seen that mentioned anywhere
before . :-)
Andrew Gabriel
I think most manufacturers have something along these lines in their
datasheets (or at least did 8 years ago when I was doing mine).
Exactly how they specify the clearence varies.
The Natural Philosopher
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 12:28:46 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Usenet Nutter wrote:
>>> Prior to getting new windows in my Living Room on 11th Jan I am doing
>>> some prep work and am siting a new radiator below the window .I did
>>> try a 600 x 900 that I had for the other end of the LR but it was
>>> going to be too tall so I ordered a 500 x 1000 that arrived unscathed
>>> this morning ...well done to the Fed-Ex one man team who carried it on
>>> his shoulder up 2 flights of stairs ...
>>> The new windows includes a new hardwood sill so I don't want it to be
>>> above the rad
>> why ever NOT?
>
> Well you tell me .
> http://www.click4carbon.com/ECOInfo/radiators.php
>
half truths and ecobollox.
>>> but is there an optimum position for the height of the
>>> rad or is it just down to personal choice .I don't know what thickness
>>> the new sill will be but working on it being the same as the old one
>>> ..about 20cm...the top of the rad will be about 20 cm above the sill.
>>> Does that sound about right .
>> Souds crap to me. You want it below the sill so that it still heats the
>> room with curtians drawn, at least.
>>
>>
>>> That lets me get rid of the full length
>>> curtains that I have now and get ones down to the sill ( or slightly
>>> below) which will close with the rad in front of them .
>>>
>> I dont follow this. If they are below the cill and the rad is above,
>> then you are pumping heat into the windows, not the room.
>
> Well there is a gap behind the rad between it and the sill but the
> above site suggests closing the curtains along the sill and not
> tucking them behind the rad as this restricts the air flow .
what you have to appreciate, is the difference between an inneficient
radiator, which doesn't matter (much*) as long as its big enough, and
heatloss to the outside of the house, which costs money.
That ecobopolox site is dumbed down to the point here it basically
confuses them, and it also takes no account of second order effects.
* higher return temperatures due to inefficient rads ,may make boilders
and pipework less efficient. Its genarally accepted that lots of luke
warm water is easier to make efficiently than a little very hot water.
Especially if you have a heat pump.
The Natural Philosopher
It is almost totally irrelevant frankly.
The main thing is not to convect you seriuously hot air off the rad
straight past an ice cold window where it will lose more heat to the
outside world. I.e. rads should never be placed under windows at all.
They used to be because leaky draughty windows produce massive
downdraughts, and in the days when oil grew on trees, that meant more
comfort and sod the cost.
Usenet Nutter
<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Yeah whatever !!! How about explaining in plain English what you
reckon my problem is with what I asked .
Alan Braggins
>On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:42:21 -0000, "dennis@home"
><den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote:
>
>>The optimum height is zero.
>When you say "zero" do you mean rad and sill should be same height ?
Maybe he means the best radiator is underfloor heating, zero height
above the floor? (Which would allow full length curtains.)
Usenet Nutter
Braggins) wrote:
Well hopefully he knows what he means ....anyway it helps me not at
all
PeterC
Well, after reading this thread about 3 hours ago, jsut out of curiosity I
folded the curtains of the room with the 'stat up onto the windowsill. Then
had to close down that rad. as the temperature in this room had stabilised
about 0.5C lower than usual (it's now back to its previous value.
The curtains so folded are between the top and fins of the type 11 rad.,
with most of the pleats against the wall, so it seems to make some
difference. This is a very small sample!
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.
Usenet Nutter
What way do you usually have the curtains ?
PeterC
Fully down and, as above, the bottoms are about 1" below the panel and 1"
above the fins, with about 75% of the curtain against the wall and the rest
out over the fins.
I can see how curtains interfere with the convection on a type 11; be less
effect on a type 20 - 22 as most of the convection is from the centre.
Usenet Nutter
<giraffe...@homecall.co.uk> wrote:
My new rad is a type 22 so ,depending on how deep the sill is cut ,I
could have the curtains ( when closed) sitting just below the sill and
between the sill and the back of the rad .
PeterC
That would be better than over the top or outside of the radiator.
I've a type 22 and the curtains are a couple of inches below the top of it;
the rear panel is only about an inch from the wall so the gap is almost
closed off by the curtain.
I'm still wondering what to do with the type 11s: fold and pin the curtain;
have some sort of bottom rail/wire; or, is it possible to get a grille,
like that on a double panel, for a type 11?