Gas Warm Air Central Heating - Johnson and Starley Boiler
Craig
Not so long ago I posted here for advice on buying a house that had Gas Warm
Air Central Heating, I am posting again for further info as I have now
decided to buy the house ( it is reasonably priced) with the idea that if I
can't get on with the heating, I will eventually replace it with a radiator
system.
As I now know the make of the system ( Johnson and Starley) I would be
grateful if anyone could advise me as to whether it is a good,average,poor
system.
Thanks in advance,
Craig,
Peter Wedlake
Our house has a Johnson and Starley system, a bit basic but functions ok. Nice
and warm very quickly but being in the living room tends to be a bit noisy. As
others have pointed out temperature control is erratic either too hot or too
cold never stable and doesn't warm the most important room in the house, the
bathroom !
I believe the company are still in existence and spares should be available.
Johnson and Starley
Rhosili road
Brackmills
Northhampton
NN4 7LZ
Tel. 01604 762881
Fax 01604 767408
Cheers
Pete
On Thu, 25 Nov 1999 14:08:18 -0000, "Craig" <craig_w...@CUTkeane.uk.com>
wrote:
Andrew Sanders
We moved into our house this summer with one of these systems. I have a
number of observations you may find useful.
1. Check your survey for the construction of the house. Ours is about 10
years old and is of a timber frame construction. Apparently warm-air
heating is ideal for these.
2. As for some rooms not heating up, we did find this orignally, but a
little trial and error pays dividends. Our themostat is in the lounge which
is also nearest to the boiler, so it will switch off before warm-air has
reached other rooms. Closing the heating vent slightly means that the
longue warms up less quick and the heat then reaches all other rooms. We in
fact had the same problem in our last house with our radiator system. In
this case the thermo was in the hall which became extremely hot and then
switched off before the living room radiator was warm. Go round the house
and experiment with the vents until you get the best balance. It should be
possible to get an even temperature all round.
3. The room will warm up very qucikly. But don't be tempted as you will
feel very hot and turn the heat down. The result is that the temperature
will drop, but the heat will not come on again for a while and you will
begin to feel cold. Go for a lower temperature and let the house warm up
more slowly, you will feel more comfortable and save gas. Again
experimenting with the vents help.
4. I have been keeping a close eye on the metre, energy efficiency seems to
be the same as radiator system.
5. Check the house is well insulated. This will ensure the house will stay
warm when the heat is off. Closing windows or air vents can really make a
difference.
6. British Gas will give you a service contract. Also check their web
site, they can replace the heater if it's old. New one's are apparently
more energy efficiency and it's still a cheaper option than radiators. Our
BG engineer said that our Johnson and Starley is also capable of running
radiators upstairs.
BTW out of interest what is the cost of installing a complete radiator
system in an average 3 bedroomed house?
Hope this helps
Andrew Sanders
In short experiment before you think of ditching the system.
Craig <craig_w...@CUTkeane.uk.com> wrote in message
news:94353899...@red.parallax.co.uk...
News
Nice
> and warm very quickly but being in the living room tends to be a bit
noisy. As
> others have pointed out temperature control is erratic either too hot or
too
> cold never stable and doesn't warm the most important room in the house,
the
> bathroom !
>
> I believe the company are still in existence and spares should be
available.
>
> Johnson and Starley
> Rhosili road
> Brackmills
> Northhampton
> NN4 7LZ
> Tel. 01604 762881
> Fax 01604 767408
>
> Cheers
> Pete
I have a Johnson & Starley warm air system. I replaced the unit 6 months ago
to the latest, which just went straight into where the old one was. The old
one was 23 years old. The difference is startling. The new unit has
modulating burners and fans all controlled from an electronic controller.
The controller actually drops the room temperature when the house is warm
and cleverly maintains it by modulating the fans and burner. I also opted
for the elecrostatic air filter. This takes out over 95% of dust particles.
The difference this makes I can't begin to tell you. The new unit is quieter
than the old, but the old was not noisy anyhow. If you experience noise,
soundproof the cupboard the unit is in, as it makes a hell of a difference.
Dust will not be a problem with the electrostatic air filters. If you think
the air is too dry you can always have a humidifier installed to inject
steam into the ductwork controlled by a humidistat either on the wall or in
the return air duct. I have not opted for one of these as I don't find the
air dry. It appears less dry now the new units has been installed. It is
cheap to run and I believe cheaper than radiator systems.
My system does upstairs and down and I would never dream of putting a
radiator system in. With this system I have no ugly radiators on the walls
and the heat up time very fast. You may need to balance the system and this
may be done via the grill registers. If they don't have this facility then
you can buy the registers and just screw them on yourself. I live in an
estate of 150 houses and no one has installed a radiator system. Some have
installed thermostasts in a few rooms that automatically close the outlet
grills by an integral motor. Some people have amended their systems to daw
in a small percentage of outside fresh air as well. In the sumer I use the
fan to circulate air helping to keep te house cool and fresh. I have a gas
hot water heater which is sited in the warm air unit casing heating the
cylinder upstairs. Warm air is not like it used to be.
Johnson & Starley also make a specail unit that goes in the loft that
converts the unit to a condensing unit extracting the heat fro the wasted
flue gasses. It warms up the returning air and pushes it back into the main
unit. I haven't gone for this yet aas I was short of money. I might go for
it next year.
In the past 20 years I have installed double glazing and draught proofed
doors and windows. This makes a big difference as well. Don't rip out a
decent system until you assess the new alternatives. It will save you a lot
of money. Johnson & Starley are still in existence and they are very big.
BC
News
Peter Wedlake <pe...@wedlake.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:rZ09ODai3C7GWL...@4ax.com...
> Hi Craig
>
> Our house has a Johnson and Starley system, a bit basic but functions ok.
Nice
> and warm very quickly but being in the living room tends to be a bit
noisy. As
> others have pointed out temperature control is erratic either too hot or
too
> cold never stable and doesn't warm the most important room in the house,
the
> bathroom !
>
> I believe the company are still in existence and spares should be
available.
>
> Johnson and Starley
> Rhosili road
> Brackmills
> Northhampton
> NN4 7LZ
> Tel. 01604 762881
> Fax 01604 767408
>
> Cheers
> Pete
Pete,
You can install a combined radiator/towel rail run off the gas water heater
inside the warm air unit case. The reason the bathroom is left out is that
odours are not circulated to other parts of the house.
BC
Adam
>
> Not so long ago I posted here for advice on buying a
> house that had Gas Warm Air Central Heating, I am
> posting again for further info as I have now
> decided to buy the house ( it is reasonably priced) with
> the idea that if I can't get on with the heating, I will
> eventually replace it with a radiator system.
>
> As I now know the make of the system ( Johnson and
> Starley) I would be grateful if anyone could advise me
> as to whether it is a good,average,poor system.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
Craig,
Johnson & Starley make some excellent kit. They are a big company and
produce many thousands of units each year. Their main market is to local
authorities and developers with units being installed in housing estates.
Very few of their warm air units are sold to individuals, but that is
changing. Warm air is now beginning to be accepted again in newly built
houses as it is cheap to install and eliminates wall rads. The selling
point is the built-in fresh air facility of some systems and electrostatic
air filters that are recommended for asthmatics.
Don't be put off by the crap warm air systems of 30 years ago, that is not
the case today. Just read the people on this thread who say something very
different. J&S units are state of the art with stainless steel heat
exchangers and electronic controllers that ensure finite temperature
control. They are a world away from old noisy, dust blowing clunkers. Warm
air systems can incorporate fresh air ventilation within the unit using the
same ductwork. Heat recovery units may be attached to warm air systems by
installing the unit in the loft space.
Warm air is the normal in the USA, where they never experienced the problems
of the poorly designed British units and systems of years ago. Live with
your system, if you are not satisfied, look into a new J&S units drawing in
a percentage of outside fresh air. You have the ducting in place, it would
be foolish not to utilise it again. Warm air is far more felexible than wet
rads. You can condition the air by adding humidifiers or adding outside
fresh air, something you could never do with rads. You have nothing to
loose by buying a house with a warm air system in it. Warm air is also
cheaper to run that rad systems.
How old is it? Does it supply all of the house? Is the unit near the living
room?
cheers
Peter Wedlake
<evertonia@evertonia***.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Pete,
>
>You can install a combined radiator/towel rail run off the gas water heater
>inside the warm air unit case.
Yes, I did realise I could add a radiator.
> The reason the bathroom is left out is that
>odours are not circulated to other parts of the house.
I hadn't thought about that !
Cheers
Pete
Peter Wedlake
Sounds like an much improved system, much easier to change than ripping it out
and installing radiators. How does it compare in price to a wet system ?
Cheers
Pete
News
> >
> >You can install a combined radiator/towel
> >rail run off the gas water heater
> >inside the warm air unit case.
>
> Yes, I did realise I could add a radiator.
>
> > The reason the bathroom is left out
> > is that odours are not circulated to
> > other parts of the house.
>
> I hadn't thought about that !
Warm air ducts can be fed to bathrooms, and are, especially in situations
were air-con is used.
1) The return air is sometimes just dumped to outside.
2) You can return the air just as all other rooms and have an odour filter
to kill any smells.
3) Return air can be directed into a heat recovery heat exchanger in the
loft which dumps all the air to outside but claws back some of the heat.
4) One method is to have a hwated towl rail fed off the hot water, which
heats the bathroom and a local heat recovery extractor fan in the bathroom.
Many way to get around the problem.
News
> easier to change than ripping it out and installing
> radiators. How does it compare in price to a wet system ?
Pete,
In running, cheaper. Judging by what people I know in similar sized houses
(open plan) about 25% cheaper than radiators.
Installing the new unit, with all extras was about £1,300. Apart from
regular servicing that is all I have spent in 23 years. Compare that to a
radiator system and I'm sure I would have replaced corroded radiators that
would have leaked and stained carpets. A new condensing boiler to be fitted
is well over £1,000 to have installed.
The point is that I have a system that heats, cools and cleans the air.
Next year it will have a condensing conversion that will give it
efficiencies of over 90% and a fresh air facility. You just can't do that
with a radiator system, and I still don't have radiators on the walls.
If you have the ducting in place utilise it by incorporating all the latest
units, filters, and everything else these systems have to offer. Only
people ignorant of what they offer do drastic things as put in a radiator
system. What is it £3,000 to have one installed?
News
stay
> warm when the heat is off. Closing windows or air vents can really make a
> difference.
>
> 6. British Gas will give you a service contract. Also check their web
> site, they can replace the heater if it's old.
Here it is. They show a Johnson & Starley unit.
Craig
I am most astounded by the response to my posting. I will certainly not
condemn this system through ignorance and as a result feel a lot happier
about the house purchase. If proved to be inefficient thru age I will
consider upgrading it to latest model (incidentally I believe it was
installed in the 70's, the unit is situated in a corner of the kitchen and
it does supply the whole of the house). I believe a complete rad. system
can cost up to £3000 as mentioned by other postings.
Thanks to all that have taken there time to reply and I hope that once I
become a competant DIYer I will be able to give back to this excellent
newsgroup.
Kind Regards,
Craig.
News
> I will certainly not condemn this system through
> ignorance and as a result feel a lot happier
> about the house purchase. If proved to be inefficient
> thru age I will consider upgrading it to latest model
> (incidentally I believe it was installed in the 70's,
> the unit is situated in a corner of the kitchen and
> it does supply the whole of the house). I believe
> a complete rad. system can cost up to £3000
> as mentioned by other postings.
Craig,
Ring Johnson & Starley, the number is given in another post, and ask for
their information. Ask them to send all of their details as you have not
finalised your design. You will be amazed at what they offer.
When you have some money available, it is well worth getting their latest
units with the electostatic air filters. As I have said It may be worth
your while giving the units cupboard some soundproofing. Seal the doors
too.
quen...@googlemail.com
Julie
bm
<quen...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:26cda510-5b0f-4cd7...@googlegroups.com...
warm and the place was full of airborne dust.
Bob Minchin
> I have inherited a johnson starley j90 (4 years old) which replaces an old Lennox. I am desperate as the system is so noisy, it sounds like a jet engine. The installer recommended by johnson starley is unhelpful. Johnson and starley say to contact one of their recommended installers. I just don't know where to go next. Really like warm air heating and house nice and warm. Is there anyway we can adjust the fan? Any advice or suggestions gratefully received. Thanks
> Julie
>
blades create noise.
Generally these things are the spawn of the devil as is warm air heating
but if you like it then regular maintenance is the key.
Jeff Layman
http://www.johnsonandstarley.co.uk/downloads/ZZ0717.pdf
Note section 5 about cleaning the air filter. If it hasn't been done,
that alone will cause the fan to run continuously at high speed while it
tries to keep the house warm. Also, if you are mainly using the system
to heat a house from cold all the time, it will be running full speed
much of the time. Once the house is warm, the fan should slow down and
maintain the temperature intermittently at low speed. If it doesn't it
sounds like there is something wrong with the controller (see the manual
section entitled "Modairflow control - how it works).
I lived in a house which had J & S warm-air central heating for 14 years
and loved it. All I had to do was vacuum the fan and the filter every
now and again. Even the hot-water system was incredibly simple, being
gravity fed; no pumps to worry about. I absolutely hate the idiotic hot
water/radiator system which I've lived with for the past 20 years. It's
designed to go wrong and need maintenance. If it were a relatively
simple matter to rip it out and replace it with a warm-air system I'd do
it tomorrow.
You may find the info here of interest:
http://www.miketheboilerman.com/warmair.htm
--
Jeff
quen...@googlemail.com
quen...@googlemail.com
tabb...@gmail.com
> Thanks for this. The fan does cut out when the house reaches temperature, but when it's on its loud enough that we have to turn the television up. Also we don't have the modair bit - is this something we can/should add? Could the fan be off balance and if so how do i rebalance? Is there anyway we can reduce the speed of the fan so it's not so violent. Changing to a water system is not an option.
NT
quen...@googlemail.com
Andrew Gabriel
An experienced ear could probably tell a lot from the noise, e.g.
off-balance fan, bearings gone, mountings loose, etc.
I lived in a place with J&S warm air heating back in 1984 - it was
a 1969 Anglia Homes development. I quite liked the heating, except
there was no warm air duct to the 3rd bedroom or bathroom which were
consequently always cold in winter. It did cause problems for one
other member of the house, possibly due to dust. The filter was
missing, so I went and bought one from J&S in Luton at the time.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
Jeff Layman
http://www.johnsonandstarley.co.uk/downloads/ZZ0944.pdf
Depending on how competent you are at doing this sort of thing, in the
first place I would try to reduce the fan speed if it is on a high
setting. See section 6.6.2. *Make sure the power to the heater is
turned off!*,and, as you have a non-Modairflow system, change the
connection to Tapping 1 (see diagrams on pages 24 and 25). This makes
the fan run at its lowest speed. If that reduces the noise, well, that's
fine, but of course it may now not be enough to heat the house on really
cold days.
If that doesn't help, have a look at the fan itself. Section 8.8 tells
you how to do this. Is there anything loose? Is the fan unbalanced? If
the fan motor is noisy, the manual says that the fan assembly needs to
be replaced (see g(ii) on page 17).
I have no idea if the Modairflow system can be added later. Even if it
can, it may cost quite a bit.
--
Jeff