Gate braces. Which way should they be cut?
Mike Barnard
I'm making a gate to protect a set of steps for when kids are in the
garden. It's quite wide at 1090mm and about 800mm high. So far I have
a 38mm x 6(3?)mm frame consisting of two vetricals with two cross
beams. Glued Morticed and Tenon joints using Wickes' own finest (spit)
treated timber.
Looking at various images of gates online, and gates in DIY stores and
on various gardens there seems to be no consistancy in how the cross
brace is cut. Some are cut so the pressure is put onto the vertical
posts, some onto the cross beams and a few onto both. Most are all the
way into the corners, but yes, some go half way across on one side, or
both sides... Decoration and image are a portion of the design
reasoning I'm sure.
So, whats the most durable way of bracing a simple wooden picket gate
frame like this please? Is there a carpentry tutorial on the web
somewhere that will explain the stresses behind the bracing and why it
goes where it goes?
Thanks.
Mike.
Some differing braces online.
http://nibsblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/opt-garden-gate.jpg
http://www.fmcgates.co.uk/images/products/4ft-picket-gate-banbury.jpg
http://www.gardenerbailey.co.uk/gallery/Picket-Gate.jpg
http://www.profenceworks.com/page94_files/Picket%20fence%20gate%20PFW2.jpg
http://images.thesimsresource.com/123/123712.jpg
Phil Jessop
"Mike Barnard" <m.barnard...@thunderin.co.uk> wrote in message
news:g258t5hmit3dvced0...@4ax.com...
They all look fine to me except the last link, which in the zero gravity
world of the Sims I guess you could get away with too .....
The Medway Handyman
> Hi all.
>
> I'm making a gate to protect a set of steps for when kids are in the
> garden. It's quite wide at 1090mm and about 800mm high. So far I have
> a 38mm x 6(3?)mm frame consisting of two vetricals with two cross
> beams. Glued Morticed and Tenon joints using Wickes' own finest (spit)
> treated timber.
>
> Looking at various images of gates online, and gates in DIY stores and
> on various gardens there seems to be no consistancy in how the cross
> brace is cut. Some are cut so the pressure is put onto the vertical
> posts, some onto the cross beams and a few onto both. Most are all the
> way into the corners, but yes, some go half way across on one side, or
> both sides... Decoration and image are a portion of the design
> reasoning I'm sure.
>
> So, whats the most durable way of bracing a simple wooden picket gate
> frame like this please? Is there a carpentry tutorial on the web
> somewhere that will explain the stresses behind the bracing and why it
> goes where it goes?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mike.
>
>
> Some differing braces online.
> http://www.gardenerbailey.co.uk/gallery/Picket-Gate.jpg
This one is correct. Braces go upwards from the hinge edge, so in this
picture the hinges would be on the left.
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
Roger Mills
The last one is clearly wrong, 'cos it's the wrong way round!
The idea of the brace is to stop the horizontal rails from sagging. So the
hinge-side upright, the top rail and the brace need to form a rigid
triangle. Having the ends of the brace cut like an arrow into each corner is
ok. A better engineering solution is to cut them so that the bottom end is
attched *only* to the upright (and doesn't bear on the bottom rail) and the
top end supports the top rail from below - as near to the remote upright as
possible, but not attached to it. However, this looks a bit asymmetrical
because the whole of the brace it then above the diagonal.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
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Grimly Curmudgeon
drugs began to take hold. I remember Mike Barnard
<m.barnard...@thunderin.co.uk> saying something like:
>So, whats the most durable way of bracing a simple wooden picket gate
>frame like this please?
It's quite consistent - the brace goes from the bottom hinge to the
diagonal upwards as in it counters the forces that make the gate slouch.
John Rumm
I would agree with that. The diagonal really wants to form a gallows
bracket, and that is what carries the load of the rest of the gate.
There is one allowable exception in my book though, and that is when the
gate is a lightweight one made with uprights, and the ledge and braces
are just planted on the face and screwed or nailed to all the uprights.
Rather like this one:
http://www.profenceworks.com/page94_files/Picket%20fence%20gate%20PFW2.jpg
Then all the matters is that there is some triangulation somewhere,
which way round it is acting does not really matter since the loads are
carried in shear on the fixings rather than potentially pulling apart a
M&T joint.
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Andy Champ
> It's quite consistent - the brace goes from the bottom hinge to the
> diagonal upwards as in it counters the forces that make the gate slouch.
My garden gate is built "the wrong way round" and as a result I have had
to add a tension wire to the back of it to stop it sagging. The
diagonal timber is doing absolutely nothing.
It was like that when I moved in, and I'm not going to change it as it
has faded along with the fence!
Andy
spamlet
"Mike Barnard" <m.barnard...@thunderin.co.uk> wrote in message
news:g258t5hmit3dvced0...@4ax.com...
> Hi all.
>
One point you might keep in mind is the expansion of the wood. I made a
small gate with the diagonal brace very tight in the summer, but there was
still a bit of sag in the winter: nothing serious, but another time I would
make make the brace even tighter - even lifting the latch corner a little to
allow for it.
S
Matty F
wrote:
> So, whats the most durable way of bracing a simple wooden picket gate
> frame like this please?
If the brace is not in compression, the joints will tend to pull
apart, especially when the timber is old and cracked. So the joints
have to be well nailed or preferably bolted.
I didn't like the look of just a single brace so I have two on my
small gate. It seems to be very strong. I can climb on both these
gates despite them being made entirely of 40x40mm and 40x20mm timber
which I had left over from another job.
I drilled holes through the frame and down into the braces and used 4
inch nails on all the braces, and glued them as well.
Andy Dingley
wrote:
> So, whats the most durable way of bracing a simple wooden picket gate
> frame like this please?
Gates are basically triangles (in terms of forces) with a rectangular
filler panel to keep stuff behind them. For a big gate, hang a
diagonal down from the hingepost to the far corner. For extra
strength, raise this diagonal above the gate itself on an extended
upright (a fairly common traditional design). For a narrow gate, it
doesn't much matter.
Mike Barnard
<m.barnard...@thunderin.co.uk> wrote:
>Hi all.
>
>So, whats the most durable way of bracing a simple wooden picket gate
>frame like this please? Is there a carpentry tutorial on the web
Hi again everyone.
Thanks for all of your replies, it's great when the obvious is pointed
out, isn't it. I had triangulation in my head but I didn't think of
that 'Gallows' effect. Anyway, I have it braced now and all ready to
paint. I'm sure it will last for a long time.
Mike.
Roger Mills
Are you going to post a picture of the finished article?
Mike Barnard
<watt....@googlemail.com> wrote:
>In an earlier contribution to this discussion, Mike Barnard
><m.barnard...@thunderin.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 11:32:00 +0100, Mike Barnard
>> <m.barnard...@thunderin.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all.
>>>
>>> So, whats the most durable way of bracing a simple wooden picket gate
>>> frame like this please? Is there a carpentry tutorial on the web
>>
>> Hi again everyone.
>>
>> Thanks for all of your replies, it's great when the obvious is pointed
>> out, isn't it. I had triangulation in my head but I didn't think of
>> that 'Gallows' effect. Anyway, I have it braced now and all ready to
>> paint. I'm sure it will last for a long time.
>>
>> Mike.
>
>
>Are you going to post a picture of the finished article?
Heh, if you're *really* interested. No binaries on here so...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/16455020@N06/
Note my lottery luck! You'll see what I mean. :(
Mike.
The Medway Handyman
Nice job. How did you join the ledges to the uprights?
Roger Mills
The gate looks good. I'm not quite sure what keeps the posts upright,
though.
Mike Barnard
Thanks. A bit of a bodge I feel, but it'll do for a while. The Ledges?
I assume you mean the cross members, the lefty righty bits? I don't
know all these posh 'correct' names! :)
Mortice and tennon joints. 20mm wide, full height and 30 mm deep into
the uprights.
Mike Barnard
<watt....@googlemail.com> wrote:
130mm Coach bolts into the brick. I really don't want to cut into the
stone of the step to bury the posts deeper but if it sags... and I
have this nagging fear it will...
spamlet
I used those drill and hammer/screw in window frame screws for the 'posts' I
used for the gate in our side passage. Been there for years and no sign of
coming out yet - even though I broke the head off one of the screws with my
impact driver...
S
Roger Mills
Problem is though - in the case under discussion - the posts are not
directly connected to anything solid, the nearest brickwork being at the
other end of short lengths of picket fencing - which will provide very
little rigidity in the plane of the (closed) gate.
Mike Barnard
<watt....@googlemail.com> wrote:
>In an earlier contribution to this discussion, spamlet
><spam.m...@spamola.invalid> wrote:
>
>Problem is though - in the case under discussion - the posts are not
>directly connected to anything solid, the nearest brickwork being at the
>other end of short lengths of picket fencing - which will provide very
>little rigidity in the plane of the (closed) gate.
Wrong. I've bolted the posts at the base into the brickwork that
surrounds the steps. When I get around to hanging it I'll find out.
Roger Mills
Fair enough. How did you do it - angle brackets or somesuch? Do the posts
feel firm if you try to wave the top end around? If so, that's all you need.