Re: Cable clips on stone wall
alexander.keys1
> How do you attach cable clips to a stone wall? If I manage to hit the
> nail hard enough to make any impact on the stone, it makes a hole so
> big it falls right out.
>
> -- Richard
ISTR the proper way to lay small cables, that normally have nailed
clips, on hard walls, is to first screw a strip of wood to the wall,
and nail to that. Or you could fit a length of conduit, you won't need
bends or conduit boxes for sheathed cable, just straight lengths to
provide support and protection where necessary.
harry
You can drill a hole and fit the smallest plastic plugs. They will
hold a nail.
jgharston
> How do you attach cable clips to a stone wall? If I manage to hit the
Masonry nails.
Frank Erskine
Drill/bash a hole in the wall, hammer in a bit of dowel, then cable
clip to the dowel.
--
Frank Erskine
D.M.Chapman
Yep, drill small hole, push in a pin plug and then use normal cable clip.
( http://preview.tinyurl.com/pinplug as a slightly nicer URL)
Darren
Peter Scott
I use hammer-in cable tie bases, for example eBay 250694479160. I have
the opposite problem of old soft red bricks but the hammer in ones
should work on hard stone as well. You might have to experiment to find
the best size of drill. Great thing is when you want to change the cable
you just cut the cable tie and use a new one around the new cable.
Peter Scott
Ron Lowe
I prefer to use the plastic plugs with tie-wrap slots.
Use an SDS to drill a hole, tap the plug in with a hammer, and tie-wrap
the cable to the plug.
Very fast and convenient.
--
Ron
wrights...@f2s.com
you drill a hole just a few mm deep and then tap the nail into it,
often the nail will penetrate further and will fix OK. Bricks must be
hardest near the surface.
Also the vertical mortar joints are often softer than the horizontal
ones.
Bill
Jim K
> In article <d89cdb7f-f472-4876-876c-3f883f0a7...@a30g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> harry <haroldhr...@aol.com> wrote:
> >On 11 Sep, 19:29, "alexander.keys1" <alexander.ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 11 Sep, 12:52, rich...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) wrote:
>
> >> > How do you attach cable clips to a stone wall? If I manage to hit the
> >> > nail hard enough to make any impact on the stone, it makes a hole so
> >> > big it falls right out.
>
> >> > -- Richard
>
> >> ISTR the proper way to lay small cables, that normally have nailed
> >> clips, on hard walls, is to first screw a strip of wood to the wall,
> >> and nail to that. Or you could fit a length of conduit, you won't need
> >> bends or conduit boxes for sheathed cable, just straight lengths to
> >> provide support and protection where necessary.
>
> >You can drill a hole and fit the smallest plastic plugs. They will
> >hold a nail.
>
> Yep, drill small hole, push in a pin plug and then use normal cable clip.
>
>
> (http://preview.tinyurl.com/pinplugas a slightly nicer URL)
or just
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/300329169864
;>)
Jim K
D.M.Chapman
Jim K <jk98...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/300329169864
Ah yes, that's a bit better ta
I'm not very good with these computer things ;-)
Darren
Dave Liquorice
> I use hammer-in cable tie bases, for example eBay 250694479160.
Also available from Toolstation, Screwfix, TLC etc. I have
Toolstation ones, they need a 9mm hole in sandstone. 9mm SDS drills
are not carried in any of the sheds I looked in...
> Great thing is when you want to change the cable you just cut the cable
> tie and use a new one around the new cable.
And being all plastic won't rust and fail like nails will. Only use
plastic, brass or stainless steel for fixings outside or in places
that may get even slightly damp.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Andy Burns
> On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 20:16:16 +0100, Peter Scott wrote:
>
>> I use hammer-in cable tie bases, for example eBay 250694479160.
>
>> Great thing is when you want to change the cable you just cut the cable
>> tie and use a new one around the new cable.
>
> And being all plastic won't rust and fail like nails will.
but use good quality black cable ties, otherwise UV will make them go
brittle and drop apart.
js.b1
the cable (eg, 1/8", 3/16", 1/4"), use a small stainless screw (#6).
You can pick up the black P-clips & small packs of stainless #6 screws
on Ebay.
Fix to the vertical mortar points so the cable runs in the mortar line
(P-clip will offset the cable).
This way the cable can be replaced easily without ripping chunks out
of the wall with nails. Done carefully it can be very neat - P-clips
allow adjustment to avoid festooning (dip-dip-dip).
Richard Tobin
js.b1 <js...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>Fix to the vertical mortar points so the cable runs in the mortar line
Your stone walls must be fancier than mine.
- Richard
Cash
Reply to alexander.ke...@gmail through harry as I have killfiled google
posts to reduce spam.
alexander, simply nail into the black mortar/cement joints (using long
masonary nails as necessary) - the cable clip fixings will not be equally
spaced, but better that than damage the stone work.
This by the way, is the normal practice for me (and I nail into the cement
joints on brickwork too), but others may differ.
Cash
Adrian C
> On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 15:15:41 +0200, Ken<ke...@telia.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 11:52:54 +0000 (UTC), ric...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk
>> (Richard Tobin) wrote:
>>
>>> How do you attach cable clips to a stone wall? If I manage to hit the
>>> nail hard enough to make any impact on the stone, it makes a hole so
>>> big it falls right out.
>>
>
> http://jr-international.fr/pistol-220vac-40w-glue-pistol-glue_P838_itm_english.html
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot-melt_adhesive
>
That probably won't stand temperature and condensation.
How about Gorilla Glue?
http://www.gorillaglue.com/glues/gorillaglue/index.aspx
--
Adrian C
js.b1
> In article <3d14c286-f666-46e2-a7e4-3a03b3306...@k9g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>,
> js.b1 <js...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >Fix to the vertical mortar points so the cable runs in the mortar line
>
> Your stone walls must be fancier than mine.
Or whatever line you want :-)
My point being the P-clip will offset the cable from the screw line,
so if you screw it into a horizontal mortar line the cable may appear
to increase the thickness of the mortar line and so make the cable
more obvious. It is however better than nail clips which tend to
corrode & blow out taking a pyramid of mortar, just fall out, or
generally not go in in the first place.
Steve Thackery
news:2c1b9207-07b5-4d49...@c16g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
> Bricks must be hardest near the surface.
Yep, they are, so I was told by a builder.
>>
Also the vertical mortar joints are often softer than the horizontal
ones.
<<
That's interesting. I wonder why.
SteveT
Frank Erskine
Possibly because the horizontal mortar is being compressed as it
"sets" by the bricks above. The vertical mortat just does its own
thing.
--
Frank Erskine
wrights...@f2s.com
wrote:
Normal cable clips have normal steel pins, and I've never known them
fail due to rust.
Bill
m...@privacy.net
Frank Erskine <frank....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Possibly because the horizontal mortar is being compressed as it
> "sets" by the bricks above. The vertical mortat just does its own
> thing.
More likely the 'economical' way of buttering the perpends. Just a narrow
strip on front and rear rather than a full dollop. A few years down the line
and a re-point is necessary.
--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply
The Natural Philosopher
Not car body filler. Not angle grinder, HILTI GUN.
Dave Liquorice
wrote:
> Normal cable clips have normal steel pins, and I've never known them
> fail due to rust.
I might take a photo of the run of clips along the outside here later
on, the nail heads are just a large red rusty lump. OK they are still
holding but it's only a matter of time before they do fail and
removal will no doubt cause spalling at each one due to the
expansion.
Anything "ordinary steel" outside here will be seriously rusty within
5 years. The quality of galvanised stuff is very variable, some
things are just as installed (but not many) others are rusty.
I'm of the "if a jobs worth doing, it's worth doing properly, once".
--
Cheers
Dave.
Ian Jackson
<d7b82ee4-ef62-45e7...@v23g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
"wrights...@aol.com" <wrights...@f2s.com> writes
OBO masonry nails) - apart from those you buy in the 'pound' shops!
BTW, I'd never heard of 'pin plugs'. I have used the smallest size
plastic 'Rawlplug' type, but the hole is usually too large for small
pins, and need plugging (hence my laborious directly plugging of the
hole first with decay-proof Plastic Padding (instead of wood).
Pin plugs sound ideal - if B&G really have them.
--
Ian
stuart noble
I use the yellow plugs with 25 mm size 4 screws
wrights...@f2s.com
wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Sep 2010 16:10:37 -0700 (PDT), wrightsaeri...@aol.com
I too am of that persuasion, but the industry uses steel pinned clips
exclusively, and no-one seems to have a problem. I have pulled 40 year
old cable off the wall and the pins have snapped due to corrosion, but
coax only has a lifespan of 15 to 20 years anyway.
Do you live on the coast?
Bill
wrights...@f2s.com
<ianREMOVETHISjack...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message
> <d7b82ee4-ef62-45e7-b992-e71640282...@v23g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
> "wrightsaeri...@aol.com" <wrightsaeri...@f2s.com> writes
> >Normal cable clips have normal steel pins, and I've never known them
> >fail due to rust.
>
> But are they 'normal' steel? They seem a minty bit harder (a bit like
> OBO masonry nails) - apart from those you buy in the 'pound' shops!
They are a very hard type of steel, which is why the heads can break
off and fly like a bullet.
Bill
Dave
> On 11 Sep, 19:29, "alexander.keys1"<alexander.ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 11 Sep, 12:52, rich...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) wrote:
>>
>>> How do you attach cable clips to a stone wall? If I manage to hit the
>>> nail hard enough to make any impact on the stone, it makes a hole so
>>> big it falls right out.
>>
>>> -- Richard
>>
>> ISTR the proper way to lay small cables, that normally have nailed
>> clips, on hard walls, is to first screw a strip of wood to the wall,
>> and nail to that. Or you could fit a length of conduit, you won't need
>> bends or conduit boxes for sheathed cable, just straight lengths to
>> provide support and protection where necessary.
>
> hold a nail.
I've never seen anything smaller that a yellow plastic plug. Is that the
one?
Dave
Ian Jackson
<dave...@btopenworld.com> writes
too big for the pins of 'normal-sized' cable clips. You have to plug
them - which rather defeats the object of using them in the first place.
--
Ian
Bob Eager
http://www.aerialsuperstore.co.uk/nailing-plugs-box-of-100-uni-fix-261-
p.asp
--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor
Dave Plowman (News)
Cash <.............\\@...............//.com> wrote:
> alexander, simply nail into the black mortar/cement joints (using long
> masonary nails as necessary) - the cable clip fixings will not be
> equally spaced, but better that than damage the stone work.
> This by the way, is the normal practice for me (and I nail into the
> cement joints on brickwork too), but others may differ.
Try that on most Victorian house and you'll just knock chunks out of the
pointing. The mortar is lime and often just has a thin portland cement
layer as pointing. The bricks are usually softer.
--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine*
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Dave Liquorice
> I've never seen anything smaller that a yellow plastic plug. Is that the
> one?
No you can get pin plugs but if you're going to the hassle of
drilling a hole why not use the cable tie anchors and be done with
it? Should you need to change the cable just snip the ties remove
cable, replace and use new ties. Can't do that with rusted in P
clips...
--
Cheers
Dave.
Dave Liquorice
wrote:
>> I'm of the "if a jobs worth doing, it's worth doing properly,
once".
>
> I too am of that persuasion, but the industry uses steel pinned clips
> exclusively, and no-one seems to have a problem.
Ah it's the good old builders, this is quick and simple but will fail
down the line but I won't have to fix it so I don't care or if I do
have to fix it it'll be so far down the line that I can charge for
fixing it...
> I have pulled 40 year old cable off the wall and the pins have snapped
> due to corrosion,
And you left the broken bits of pin in the wall to corode away more
and eventually spall the surface. See above...
> Do you live on the coast?
No on top of a hill and exposed. Rain and hill fog is pretty
frequent.
Couple of screws I removed from the same down spout bracket
yesterday, one brass, one
steel:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/allsorts-60/4985523539/in/set-72157624945
731244/
Second image in that set one screw is braely recognisable as a
screw... The modern twin thread on the right has faired reasonably
well but had to be cut out of the plastic plug, it wouldn't unscrew.
I moved the house name plate the other week. That had been fitted
with brass screws, they simple unscrewed. That had probably been in
place 20 or 30 years...
--
Cheers
Dave.
wrights...@f2s.com
wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Sep 2010 07:08:55 -0700 (PDT), wrightsaeri...@aol.com
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >> I'm of the "if a jobs worth doing, it's worth doing properly,
> once".
>
> > I too am of that persuasion, but the industry uses steel pinned clips
> > exclusively, and no-one seems to have a problem.
>
> Ah it's the good old builders, this is quick and simple but will fail
> down the line but I won't have to fix it so I don't care or if I do
> have to fix it it'll be so far down the line that I can charge for
> fixing it...
aerial installation.
>
> > I have pulled 40 year old cable off the wall and the pins have snapped
> > due to corrosion,
>
> And you left the broken bits of pin in the wall to corode away more
> and eventually spall the surface. See above...
That doesn't seem to be a problem in reality.
I can't ever remember a customer complaining about steel-pinned cable
clips. They appear to provide a 100% customer-satisfying fixing. Who
am I. or you, to tell people that they have to spend extra on
something that is already totally satisfactory?
The object of the exercise it to provide a service -- a good service
that's tailored to people's requirements. Not to change the world. I'd
like it if every distribution system had a full set of channel filter/
levellers, but it ain't gonna happen.
Bill
Martin Bonner
wrote:
> In article <8f27fkF3v...@mid.individual.net>,
> Cash <.............\\@...............//.com> wrote:
> > (and I nail into the cement joints on brickwork too),
>
> pointing. The mortar is lime and often just has a thin portland cement
> layer as pointing. The bricks are usually softer.
But if you knock out the portland cement pointing, you can repoint
with lime mortar (which is even softer than soft brick), and then nail
into that (and freeze-thaw won't damage your bricks any more).
wrights...@f2s.com
I don't keep the recently discussed pin plugs in the van, but have
decided to do so, despite thinking that they will only get used once a
blue moon. Then today, in a place 80 miles from home that takes an
hour to get into and an hour to get out of, I found that I had to clip
a cable 50ft along a concrete internal wall. There was no chance of
clips going in -- the wall was so hard it was actually slow to drill.
Push in cable tie holders and ties would have looked dreadful. In the
end I cut the heads of some push-ins and used the stems as pin plugs.
It worked fine.
Bill
Dave Plowman (News)
<0d998dba-c575-4109...@q18g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
Martin Bonner <martin...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > Try that on most Victorian house and you'll just knock chunks out of
> > the pointing. The mortar is lime and often just has a thin portland
> > cement layer as pointing. The bricks are usually softer.
> But if you knock out the portland cement pointing, you can repoint
> with lime mortar (which is even softer than soft brick), and then nail
> into that (and freeze-thaw won't damage your bricks any more).
Maybe, but this house was pointed with Portland mortar long before I
bought it and I've been here over 30 years. Using lime mortar (again) is a
recent fad.
But then I don't nail things into it. Or bricks, come to that. Sure way to
split them.
--
*The more people I meet, the more I like my dog.
Dave Plowman (News)
<c608ff06-2d0c-4e33...@y31g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>,
Sounds like a job for SDS man.
--
*Can fat people go skinny-dipping?
wrights...@f2s.com
wrote:
> In article
> <c608ff06-2d0c-4e33-82ab-1a4466f67...@y31g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>,
> wrightsaeri...@aol.com <wrightsaeri...@f2s.com> wrote:
>
> > You just wouldn't believe it!
> > I don't keep the recently discussed pin plugs in the van, but have
> > decided to do so, despite thinking that they will only get used once a
> > blue moon. Then today, in a place 80 miles from home that takes an
> > hour to get into and an hour to get out of, I found that I had to clip
> > a cable 50ft along a concrete internal wall. There was no chance of
> > clips going in -- the wall was so hard it was actually slow to drill.
> > Push in cable tie holders and ties would have looked dreadful. In the
> > end I cut the heads of some push-ins and used the stems as pin plugs.
> > It worked fine.
>
> Sounds like a job for SDS man.
Bosch 24VRE, new SDS bit, new battery. Operative a bit worn out
though.
Bill
PeterC
You need a regrind ;-)
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
Dave Plowman (News)
<ba3645e4-a6bf-49cd...@y31g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>,
You need a decent mains SDS for hard materials. Battery ones ain't got the
oomph. But I do realise the problems there in your job.
--
*Sleep with a photographer and watch things develop
wrights...@f2s.com
wrote:
> In article
> <ba3645e4-a6bf-49cd-a1dc-8597a4b6b...@y31g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>,
> wrightsaeri...@aol.com <wrightsaeri...@f2s.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 14, 11:47 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" <d...@davenoise.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <c608ff06-2d0c-4e33-82ab-1a4466f67...@y31g2000vbt.googlegroups.com>,
> > > wrightsaeri...@aol.com <wrightsaeri...@f2s.com> wrote:
>
> > > > You just wouldn't believe it! I don't keep the recently discussed
> > > > pin plugs in the van, but have decided to do so, despite thinking
> > > > that they will only get used once a blue moon. Then today, in a
> > > > place 80 miles from home that takes an hour to get into and an hour
> > > > to get out of, I found that I had to clip a cable 50ft along a
> > > > concrete internal wall. There was no chance of clips going in -- the
> > > > wall was so hard it was actually slow to drill. Push in cable tie
> > > > holders and ties would have looked dreadful. In the end I cut the
> > > > heads of some push-ins and used the stems as pin plugs. It worked
> > > > fine.
>
> > > Sounds like a job for SDS man.
> > Bosch 24VRE, new SDS bit, new battery. Operative a bit worn out
> > though.
>
> You need a decent mains SDS for hard materials. Battery ones ain't got the
> oomph. But I do realise the problems there in your job.
I don't have problems drilling any material, within reason. I would
use a 110V SDS drill for repeated work using large diameter SDS bits
or for a masonry-cutting core drill, but for anything upto 18mm
diameter the 24V DC drill is fine. When I said drilling the holes in
concrete was 'slow' I didn't mean it took ages, just that it was a bit
slower than drilling brick, perhaps 8 to 12 secs for an 8mm x 30mm
hole. I drilled 50 of the bastard things anyway!
Modern battery SDS drills are very good.
Bill
stuart noble
So I guess you're allowed to clamber about on roofs without the need for
scaffolding? I know roofers and chimney sweeps do it all the time, but
is there some kind of cut off point beyond which HSE requires scaffolding?
wrights...@f2s.com
> On 15/09/2010 17:00, wrightsaeri...@aol.com wrote:
> So I guess you're allowed to clamber about on roofs without the need for
> scaffolding? I know roofers and chimney sweeps do it all the time, but
I'm not sure how we got here from a discussion about battery drills,
but we have to obey H & S like everyone else. There are certain
activities where scaffolding would be essential, certain ones where it
wouldn't contribute to safety, and ones where it's debatable. We tend
to use access machinery more than scaffolding because the work is
usually of short duration.
Bill
m...@privacy.net
stuart noble <stuart...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> So I guess you're allowed to clamber about on roofs without the need for
> scaffolding? I know roofers and chimney sweeps do it all the time, but
> is there some kind of cut off point beyond which HSE requires scaffolding?
A risk assessment needs to be made. If the job takes more than half an hour a
ladder is unacceptable for access so scaffolding or cherry picker is needed,
or else (for window cleaners etc.) a system for doing the job from ground
level.
stuart noble
It seems roofers can spend 2-3 days doing flashing, re-pointing etc off
a ladder, but need scaffolding to re-tile a whole roof. None of it makes
sense to me. Half an hour is more than enough time to have an accident.
It's either safe or it isn't
stuart noble
> On Sep 15, 5:27 pm, stuart noble<stuart_no...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> On 15/09/2010 17:00, wrightsaeri...@aol.com wrote:
>> So I guess you're allowed to clamber about on roofs without the need for
>> scaffolding? I know roofers and chimney sweeps do it all the time, but
>> is there some kind of cut off point beyond which HSE requires scaffolding?- Hide quoted text -
>
> I'm not sure how we got here from a discussion about battery drills,
That's usenet for you
> but we have to obey H& S like everyone else. There are certain
Andy Burns
> On 15/09/2010 20:41, wrights...@aol.com wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure how we got here from a discussion about battery drills,
>
> That's usenet for you
Dunno if Bill's spotted the xpost to uk.d-i-y? No recommendations for
angle grinders to remove rusted cable clips yet ...
wrights...@f2s.com
>
> >> I'm not sure how we got here from a discussion about battery drills,
>
> > That's usenet for you
>
> Dunno if Bill's spotted the xpost to uk.d-i-y? No recommendations for
> angle grinders to remove rusted cable clips yet ...
No, I tend to not spot things.
Bill
stuart noble
>> On 11 Sep, 12:52, rich...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) wrote:
>>> How do you attach cable clips to a stone wall? If I manage to hit the
>>> nail hard enough to make any impact on the stone, it makes a hole so
>>> big it falls right out.
>>>
>>> -- Richard
>>
>> ISTR the proper way to lay small cables, that normally have nailed
>> clips, on hard walls, is to first screw a strip of wood to the wall,
>> and nail to that. Or you could fit a length of conduit, you won't need
>> bends or conduit boxes for sheathed cable, just straight lengths to
>> provide support and protection where necessary.
>
Dave Liquorice
> It seems roofers can spend 2-3 days doing flashing, re-pointing etc off
> a ladder, but need scaffolding to re-tile a whole roof.
The scaffolding for a re-tile is so they don't have to lower the
tiles to the ground and haul 'em back up again, if reusing the
existing tiles.
--
Cheers
Dave.
stuart noble
Why has my post taken 5 days to appear I wonder