Best computer for old geezer?

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Dave Johnson

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Sep 25, 2021, 10:19:09 AMSep 25
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Hi all,

An old pal of mine (just turned 80) is *very* computer illiterate and
really struggles like hell with keeping Windows running on his PC. He
really needs something which looks after itself and requires bare
minimal user maintenance. I was thinking perhaps a Chromebook or else
something by Apple. But I'm a bit out of touch. There may be something
better out there nowadays. It's just email and Farcebook he uses
mainly. Anyway, suggestions welcome and will be passed on. Cheers.

Dave,

Dagenham, UK

The Natural Philosopher

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Sep 25, 2021, 10:46:40 AMSep 25
to
To be honest if he knows NOTHING about computers set him up on Linux
Mint, and set it up so that what he uses is accessible in a very simple way

Mint updates itself fairly seamlessly. Just needs a password to be set
up for maintenance



you need with the latest release about 4GB RAM to run those two And a 64
bit machine with DVD drive probably later than 2005

https://linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=289

It comes with firefox and thunderbird as standard.

I tend to put those two plus a main menu plus a shutdown button on the
menu bar and that's it. For my 'not fore anything complicated' laptop

Chrome is not easier to use and its slow.

Apple is horrendously bad for some video support - wont play anything
non apple - and its expensive.

don't buy a new machine - wipe his windows machine.

You can test it all before installation by inserting the live DVD and
booting from it.





--
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
rule.
– H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956

charles

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Sep 25, 2021, 11:01:18 AMSep 25
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In article <4mbukgtgkejejkp45...@4ax.com>,
SWMBO uses an iPad Mini for these tasks. She's still got 18 months before
turning 80.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Martin Brown

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Sep 25, 2021, 11:15:34 AMSep 25
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On 25/09/2021 15:19, Dave Johnson wrote:
One question first - does he have a reasonable internet speed. Some old
folk try to keep going are on <1Mbps ADSL or even no internet at all!

My vote would be for Apple iPad in this sort of case since they are
robust and almost maintenance free. Windows borks itself with monotonous
regularity - particularly in the hands of the computer illiterate.

A Samsung Android device would also be another option worth considering
if it is only for web browsing and email. Various nice apps on either
platform for chess, sudoku and crossword for example.

Relevant question is what does the rest of his family have by way of
phones and other tablets?

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Andy Burns

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Sep 25, 2021, 11:21:25 AMSep 25
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Dave Johnson wrote:
>
>> An old pal of mine (just turned 80) is *very* computer illiterate and
>> really struggles like hell with keeping Windows running on his PC. He
>> really needs something which looks after itself and requires bare
>> minimal user maintenance.
>> I was thinking perhaps a Chromebook

Chromebook ticks that box.

>> or else
>> something by Apple. But I'm a bit out of touch. There may be something
>> better out there nowadays. It's just email and Farcebook he uses
>> mainly. Anyway, suggestions welcome and will be passed on. Cheers.
>>
> To be honest if he knows NOTHING about computers set him up on Linux Mint

That's ok, but if it/he *does* have problems, who will sort them?

The Natural Philosopher

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Sep 25, 2021, 11:35:43 AMSep 25
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The same goes for anything else

Either don't get involved in his problems or be prepared to be an unpaid
24x7 support line.


--
In a Time of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act.

- George Orwell

Cursitor Doom

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Sep 25, 2021, 11:50:17 AMSep 25
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On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 16:21:17 +0100, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk>
wrote:
I don't see anywhere where Dagenham Dave stated he was familiar with
Linux at all in the OP! Plus, even if Mint is entirely suitable for
novices (which is questionable) there will be issues when the old boy
needs to print out an email - or anything else for that matter, 'cos
the drivers won't be present. Likewise any other peripherals will
likely all need drivers sourcing and installing (command line stuff so
a non-starter for a technophobe in my view).
--

"You must therefore confess that by 'individual' you mean no other person
than the bourgeois; than the middle-class owner of property. This person
must indeed be swept out of the way, and made impossible."

- Marx & Engels, The Communist Manifesto

Rod Speed

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Sep 25, 2021, 11:55:11 AMSep 25
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Dave Johnson <dave...@pcl.co.uk> wrote
Plenty find an ipad works fine for that stuff.

Theo

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Sep 25, 2021, 11:59:09 AMSep 25
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Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
> One question first - does he have a reasonable internet speed. Some old
> folk try to keep going are on <1Mbps ADSL or even no internet at all!
>
> My vote would be for Apple iPad in this sort of case since they are
> robust and almost maintenance free. Windows borks itself with monotonous
> regularity - particularly in the hands of the computer illiterate.
>
> A Samsung Android device would also be another option worth considering
> if it is only for web browsing and email. Various nice apps on either
> platform for chess, sudoku and crossword for example.

A tablet with a keyboard dock would be the thing I'd look at - it's quite
happy for you to poke it directly with your fingers so you don't have to
worry about using a mouse (although elderly fingers can struggle sometimes).

Although do they need a large screen (eyesight problems?) Then they get
slightly more unwieldy if you want to plugin to a monitor as well, although
you can do it.

The advantage of a tablet or laptop is it's easy to take it to someone if
you need help. If they take it places, something with LTE and a cheap
monthly SIM card they don't need to worry about setting up internet - some
people can't handle configuring wifi.

Although if they have struggled with Windows it sounds like they're not a
complete notice in terms of using mice, wifi, etc.

Theo

72y33

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Sep 25, 2021, 12:03:19 PMSep 25
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The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote
> On 25/09/2021 16:21, Andy Burns wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> Dave Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>>> An old pal of mine (just turned 80) is *very* computer illiterate and
>>>> really struggles like hell with keeping Windows running on his PC. He
>>>> really needs something which looks after itself and requires bare
>>>> minimal user maintenance. I was thinking perhaps a Chromebook
>>
>> Chromebook ticks that box.
>>
>>>> or else
>>>> something by Apple. But I'm a bit out of touch. There may be something
>>>> better out there nowadays. It's just email and Farcebook he uses
>>>> mainly. Anyway, suggestions welcome and will be passed on. Cheers.
>>>>
>>> To be honest if he knows NOTHING about computers set him up on Linux
>>> Mint
>>
>> That's ok, but if it/he *does* have problems, who will sort them?
>
> The same goes for anything else

But far more will be able to sort any problems he has with a ipad than with
mint.

The Natural Philosopher

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Sep 25, 2021, 12:15:46 PMSep 25
to
On 25/09/2021 16:50, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 16:21:17 +0100, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> Dave Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>>> An old pal of mine (just turned 80) is *very* computer illiterate and
>>>> really struggles like hell with keeping Windows running on his PC. He
>>>> really needs something which looks after itself and requires bare
>>>> minimal user maintenance.
>>>> I was thinking perhaps a Chromebook
>>
>> Chromebook ticks that box.
>>
>>>> or else
>>>> something by Apple. But I'm a bit out of touch. There may be something
>>>> better out there nowadays. It's just email and Farcebook he uses
>>>> mainly. Anyway, suggestions welcome and will be passed on. Cheers.
>>>>
>>> To be honest if he knows NOTHING about computers set him up on Linux Mint
>>
>> That's ok, but if it/he *does* have problems, who will sort them?
>
> I don't see anywhere where Dagenham Dave stated he was familiar with
> Linux at all in the OP!

So what? You dont need to be.

Mint MATE 20 is a 'shove the DVD in the drive answer two or three simple
questions and its installed;

Anyone who is familiar with XP can drive it, and there is far more help
available online and a complete PDF manual which isn't the case for
windows OR Mac

Plus, even if Mint is entirely suitable for
> novices (which is questionable) there will be issues when the old boy
> needs to print out an email - or anything else for that matter, 'cos
> the drivers won't be present.

What drivers?

Most printers 'just work' with the included lists of PPDS. And the OP
never mentioned printing

It isn't Windows, It's much simpler.

Likewise any other peripherals will
> likely all need drivers sourcing and installing (command line stuff so
> a non-starter for a technophobe in my view).
>
Why, when you clearly are completely ignorant of how Linux Mint deals
with hardware, do you post such misinformation?.

There is no need to use the command line AT ALL for anything.
The whole thrust of the distro is to automate everything of that nature

You run a 'driver manager' app, it scans the hardware, tells you what
you need to install, and installs it for you. Even yoiu should be able
to manage that


And why would an 80- year old boy who just wants email facebook, maybe
skype and maybe whatsapp, need 'other peripherals'?
Maybe a webcam and speakers, but they work 'out of the box' without drivers


My experience is that even if you shove e.g. a scanner in front of a non
computer literate 80 years old he still wont be able to use it.

The reason to use linux Mint is that once set up it is no more
incomprehensible than windows or macs, and from experience it is far
less likely to go wrong. And its almost impossible to catch a virus. So
less support calls

It is FAR more suitable for elderly people than windows.



--
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit
atrocities.”

― Voltaire, Questions sur les Miracles à M. Claparede, Professeur de
Théologie à Genève, par un Proposant: Ou Extrait de Diverses Lettres de
M. de Voltaire

Sysadmin

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Sep 25, 2021, 12:23:28 PMSep 25
to
I haven't seen a laptop with a DVD drive for ages.

72y33

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Sep 25, 2021, 1:09:15 PMSep 25
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The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote
But the old fart is more likely to want to print some stuff
and plenty of printers are designed to work effortlessly
and wirelessly with ipads now.

> It isn't Windows, It's much simpler.
>
> Likewise any other peripherals will
>> likely all need drivers sourcing and installing (command line stuff so
>> a non-starter for a technophobe in my view).
>>
> Why, when you clearly are completely ignorant of how Linux Mint deals with
> hardware, do you post such misinformation?.
>
> There is no need to use the command line AT ALL for anything.
> The whole thrust of the distro is to automate everything of that nature
>
> You run a 'driver manager' app, it scans the hardware, tells you what you
> need to install, and installs it for you. Even yoiu should be able to
> manage that
>
>
> And why would an 80- year old boy who just wants email facebook, maybe
> skype and maybe whatsapp, need 'other peripherals'?
> Maybe a webcam and speakers, but they work 'out of the box' without
> drivers
>
>
> My experience is that even if you shove e.g. a scanner in front of a non
> computer literate 80 years old he still wont be able to use it.

Yes, but they can take photos of it with an ipad.

> The reason to use linux Mint is that once set up it is no more
> incomprehensible than windows or macs, and from experience it is far less
> likely to go wrong. And its almost impossible to catch a virus. So less
> support calls
>
> It is FAR more suitable for elderly people than windows.

But an ipad is better again.

Peeler

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Sep 25, 2021, 1:24:07 PMSep 25
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On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 02:03:14 +1000, 72y33, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


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Peeler

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Sep 25, 2021, 1:25:07 PMSep 25
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On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 03:09:09 +1000, 72y33, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

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Peeler

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Sep 25, 2021, 1:25:36 PMSep 25
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On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 01:55:06 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

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John Rumm

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Sep 25, 2021, 2:25:08 PMSep 25
to
On 25/09/2021 15:19, Dave Johnson wrote:
If he is prone to writing anything at length, then something with a
keyboard would be good, otherwise a tablet will probably do the trick.

A chromebook would be a good bet for something with a decent keyboard -
works out of the box and no need for active maintenance by the user.

If going for a tablet, then probably worth checking that he can cope
with a touchscreen though, since I have met older folks who find that
their skin is so dry, the touch screens basically can't "feel" them!


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

Tim+

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Sep 25, 2021, 2:46:41 PMSep 25
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If he’s not really into creating content, an iPad. More than adequate for
web browsing, shopping, emails, facebook etc.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Cursitor Doom

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Sep 25, 2021, 2:52:57 PMSep 25
to
On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 17:15:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 25/09/2021 16:50, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 16:21:17 +0100, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dave Johnson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> An old pal of mine (just turned 80) is *very* computer illiterate and
>>>>> really struggles like hell with keeping Windows running on his PC. He
>>>>> really needs something which looks after itself and requires bare
>>>>> minimal user maintenance.
>>>>> I was thinking perhaps a Chromebook
>>>
>>> Chromebook ticks that box.
>>>
>>>>> or else
>>>>> something by Apple. But I'm a bit out of touch. There may be something
>>>>> better out there nowadays. It's just email and Farcebook he uses
>>>>> mainly. Anyway, suggestions welcome and will be passed on. Cheers.
>>>>>
>>>> To be honest if he knows NOTHING about computers set him up on Linux Mint
>>>
>>> That's ok, but if it/he *does* have problems, who will sort them?
>>
>> I don't see anywhere where Dagenham Dave stated he was familiar with
>> Linux at all in the OP!
>
>So what? You dont need to be.

I beg to differ. I'd like to see someone with no foreknowledge of
Linux locate a suitable Mint variant, correctly burn it to disk, run
it, understand how 'root' differs from ordinary users, sufficiently to
be able to introduce the old fucker to the system, how it works, where
everything is, what the unfamiliar names for apps are Windows
analogues/proxies for and provide enough support to see the old git
through those precarious first few weeks whilst he's tearing what's
left of his hair out.

>Mint MATE 20 is a 'shove the DVD in the drive answer two or three simple
>questions and its installed;

They're simple enough if you're familiar with Linux and disc
partitioning. DD didn't say he'd even heard of it.

>Anyone who is familiar with XP can drive it, and there is far more help
>available online and a complete PDF manual which isn't the case for
>windows OR Mac

ITYF the major bookstores' titles on Windows outnumber those on Linux
by an order of magnitude!

> Plus, even if Mint is entirely suitable for
>> novices (which is questionable) there will be issues when the old boy
>> needs to print out an email - or anything else for that matter, 'cos
>> the drivers won't be present.
>
>What drivers?
>
>Most printers 'just work' with the included lists of PPDS. And the OP
>never mentioned printing

There are *loads* of things he didn't mention that the old fart will
doubtless require further down the road.

>
>It isn't Windows, It's much simpler.

I prefer it personally, but you can't get to grips with it straight
'out of the box' with no foreknowledge whatsoever. Ain't possible, m8.

>
> Likewise any other peripherals will
>> likely all need drivers sourcing and installing (command line stuff so
>> a non-starter for a technophobe in my view).
>>
>Why, when you clearly are completely ignorant of how Linux Mint deals
>with hardware, do you post such misinformation?.
>
>There is no need to use the command line AT ALL for anything.
>The whole thrust of the distro is to automate everything of that nature
>
>You run a 'driver manager' app, it scans the hardware, tells you what
>you need to install, and installs it for you. Even yoiu should be able
>to manage that

I'll take your word for it. As a Slacker, sourcing and installing
drivers takes up more time than getting shit actually done!

>And why would an 80- year old boy who just wants email facebook, maybe
>skype and maybe whatsapp, need 'other peripherals'?
>Maybe a webcam and speakers, but they work 'out of the box' without drivers
>
>
>My experience is that even if you shove e.g. a scanner in front of a non
>computer literate 80 years old he still wont be able to use it.
>
>The reason to use linux Mint is that once set up it is no more
>incomprehensible than windows or macs, and from experience it is far
>less likely to go wrong. And its almost impossible to catch a virus. So
>less support calls

Mint doesn't "look after itself" to anything like the extent required
for some old coffin-dodger to use with ease, I'm afraid.

>
>It is FAR more suitable for elderly people than windows.

If you say so, old boy. I'm not convinced myself.
--

"In short, the Communists everywhere support every revolutionary movement
against the existing social and political order of things. In all of these
movements, they bring to the front, as a leading question, the issue of
private property ownership."

- Marx and Engels, The Communist Manifesto

Dave Johnson

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Sep 25, 2021, 3:01:44 PMSep 25
to
On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 17:15:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

Sounds like just the job! Where can I get it?

Dave,

Dagenham, UK

72y33

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Sep 25, 2021, 4:10:22 PMSep 25
to
72y33 <72...@gmail.com> wrote
And if it gets lost/stolen/or dies, it's completely effortless to replace
it,
just enter the appleID on the replacement and carry on regardless with
everything restored.

The Natural Philosopher

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Sep 25, 2021, 4:12:43 PMSep 25
to
Ive never seen one without

OTOH the OP said PC, not laptop

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WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.

The Natural Philosopher

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Sep 25, 2021, 4:20:14 PMSep 25
to
Ypu dont have to know anything about disk partioning - just answer 'yes'
when it sayu 'use the whole disk?'

>> Anyone who is familiar with XP can drive it, and there is far more help
>> available online and a complete PDF manual which isn't the case for
>> windows OR Mac
>
> ITYF the major bookstores' titles on Windows outnumber those on Linux
> by an order of magnitude!

They cost money. Mint manual is free

>
>> Plus, even if Mint is entirely suitable for
>>> novices (which is questionable) there will be issues when the old boy
>>> needs to print out an email - or anything else for that matter, 'cos
>>> the drivers won't be present.
>>
>> What drivers?
>>
>> Most printers 'just work' with the included lists of PPDS. And the OP
>> never mentioned printing
>
> There are *loads* of things he didn't mention that the old fart will
> doubtless require further down the road.

Why? I know an old far JUST like that. He doesn't use a printer

>
>>
>> It isn't Windows, It's much simpler.
>
> I prefer it personally, but you can't get to grips with it straight
> 'out of the box' with no foreknowledge whatsoever. Ain't possible, m8.

Absolutely is. That was prcisely waht Mint was designed to do. Install
and set it self up with virtually no user interbention

You should look at a you tube video on installing it.

>
>>
>> Likewise any other peripherals will
>>> likely all need drivers sourcing and installing (command line stuff so
>>> a non-starter for a technophobe in my view).
>>>
>> Why, when you clearly are completely ignorant of how Linux Mint deals
>> with hardware, do you post such misinformation?.
>>
>> There is no need to use the command line AT ALL for anything.
>> The whole thrust of the distro is to automate everything of that nature
>>
>> You run a 'driver manager' app, it scans the hardware, tells you what
>> you need to install, and installs it for you. Even yoiu should be able
>> to manage that
>
> I'll take your word for it. As a Slacker, sourcing and installing
> drivers takes up more time than getting shit actually done!
Slackware is a techy POS. Mint is there to make linux simpler to install
than windows, and it has.

>
>> And why would an 80- year old boy who just wants email facebook, maybe
>> skype and maybe whatsapp, need 'other peripherals'?
>> Maybe a webcam and speakers, but they work 'out of the box' without drivers
>>
>>
>> My experience is that even if you shove e.g. a scanner in front of a non
>> computer literate 80 years old he still wont be able to use it.
>>
>> The reason to use linux Mint is that once set up it is no more
>> incomprehensible than windows or macs, and from experience it is far
>> less likely to go wrong. And its almost impossible to catch a virus. So
>> less support calls
>
> Mint doesn't "look after itself" to anything like the extent required
> for some old coffin-dodger to use with ease, I'm afraid.

It absolutely does, My 84 year old twat learnt that all he had to do was
click on the exclamation mark, type in his name, and hit return to
upgrade it. He's done that for 5 years now

>
>>
>> It is FAR more suitable for elderly people than windows.
>
> If you say so, old boy. I'm not convinced myself.
>
Well you picked yourself a hobbyists techy POPS, I picked something I
don't have to fuck around with. I spent most of my life fucking around
with computers. Now I just want to use them.

newshound

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Sep 25, 2021, 4:21:52 PMSep 25
to
On 25/09/2021 15:19, Dave Johnson wrote:
No brainer. iPad.

Rod Speed

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Sep 25, 2021, 4:26:21 PMSep 25
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Dave Johnson <dave...@pcl.co.uk> wrote
> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote
It would be interesting to get a report on how well it worked out if you go
that route,

Theo

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Sep 25, 2021, 4:28:30 PMSep 25
to
The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Mint MATE 20 is a 'shove the DVD in the drive answer two or three simple
> questions and its installed;
>
> Anyone who is familiar with XP can drive it, and there is far more help
> available online and a complete PDF manual which isn't the case for
> windows OR Mac

The trouble is we don't know what level of competence this user has. Mint
(and indeed Windows and MacOS) expect a certain degree of computer literacy,
such as you get from running Windows. You need to know there's things
called windows with funny shapes in the corner that change their size,
there's a thing called 'double clicking', what the buttons on the mouse do,
etc.

Those are fine if you've used Windows because somebody trained you what to
expect, and those things feel familiar in Mint because it works like XP did.
But if this is your first computer and you haven't experienced Windows then
there's still quite a bit to learn. The user has obviously used Windows but
we don't know if they're happy with, say, editing a Word doc. If not I'd
suggest another desktop OS might not be the way to go.

Theo

The Natural Philosopher

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Sep 25, 2021, 4:30:12 PMSep 25
to
https://mirrors.ukfast.co.uk/sites/linuxmint.com/isos/stable/20/linuxmint-20-mate-64bit.iso

Thats the ISO - the DVD image

How you burn that to a DVD depends on what you have to do DVD burning

Online guide to downloading and installing

https://linuxmint-installation-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

You tube tutorial - there are many

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZZaM5BRz4I


Now he boots from a USB stick. I prefer DVD if the machine has it
because generally the PC will boot from a DVD drive if one is installed
but not from usb without fricking in the bios

Only problem is that later machines have 'secure boot' and 'efi boot'
and other strangenesses. You may need to hot the BIOS and slect EFI boot
or legacy boot




>
> Dave,
>
> Dagenham, UK
>


--
“A leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
“We did this ourselves.”

― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

The Natural Philosopher

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Sep 25, 2021, 4:35:10 PMSep 25
to
My geriatric idiot neighbor can manage linux mint, but could not manage
an Ipad

touch screen is utter shit really,

Today after 3 years I actually managed to answer a call on my android
phone, by slowly sliding up my finger.
Everything else needs a tap, or a quick swipe. The phone needs a slow
swipe.

Utter crap

Ipad cant see half the videos on the net. Only does H264/AAC Foirget
Webm/Vorbis

--
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich
people by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason
they are poor.

Peter Thompson

Peeler

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Sep 25, 2021, 4:39:38 PMSep 25
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On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 06:10:15 +1000, 72y33, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

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The Natural Philosopher

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Sep 25, 2021, 4:40:35 PMSep 25
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On 25/09/2021 21:28, Theo wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Mint MATE 20 is a 'shove the DVD in the drive answer two or three
>> simple questions and its installed;
>>
>> Anyone who is familiar with XP can drive it, and there is far more
>> help available online and a complete PDF manual which isn't the
>> case for windows OR Mac
>
> The trouble is we don't know what level of competence this user has.
> Mint (and indeed Windows and MacOS) expect a certain degree of
> computer literacy,

No, they dont

> such as you get from running Windows. You need to know there's
> things called windows with funny shapes in the corner that change
> their size, there's a thing called 'double clicking', what the
> buttons on the mouse do, etc.
>
> Those are fine if you've used Windows because somebody trained you
> what to expect, and those things feel familiar in Mint because it
> works like XP did. But if this is your first computer and you haven't
> experienced Windows then there's still quite a bit to learn. The
> user has obviously used Windows but we don't know if they're happy
> with, say, editing a Word doc. If not I'd suggest another desktop OS
> might not be the way to go.
>
well thats true of the grope and swipe touchscreen shit as well.

My geriatric neighbour got an iphone,. Could I get it working.
I looked at the manual
"First, Insert sim card"

How? there was no instruction on where or how the sim card could be
'inserted'

After an hour I found a site on line that showed you what te pater clip
thing was used for. The manual didn't tell me.

Every few weeks he used to phone me up and say that the phone wasnt
working. He had accidentally slid the little mute button on tthe phone
while just holding it.

Apple is utter shit

There is a given point - and frankly he is on the cusp - where you have
to tell some people 'you are too stupid to use a computer'




--
“It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
who pay no price for being wrong.”

Thomas Sowell

Peeler

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 4:42:00 PMSep 25
to
On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 06:26:14 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Bill Wright addressing senile Ozzie cretin Rodent Speed:
"Well you make up a lot of stuff and it's total bollocks most of it."
MID: <pj2b07$1rvs$2...@gioia.aioe.org>

Tim+

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 5:21:32 PMSep 25
to
Oh, if only there was some sort of searchable database online…

>
> After an hour I found a site on line that showed you what te pater clip
> thing was used for. The manual didn't tell me.

You musta looked at the wrong page. Any passing school age child could have
told you though.

>
> Every few weeks he used to phone me up and say that the phone wasnt
> working. He had accidentally slid the little mute button on tthe phone
> while just holding it.
>
> Apple is utter shit
>
> There is a given point - and frankly he is on the cusp - where you have
> to tell some people 'you are too stupid to use a computer'

You’ve clearly demonstrated your own lack of IT credentials.

Tim+

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 5:21:32 PMSep 25
to
The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 25/09/2021 21:21, newshound wrote:
>> On 25/09/2021 15:19, Dave Johnson wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> An old pal of mine (just turned 80) is *very* computer illiterate and
>>> really struggles like hell with keeping Windows running on his PC. He
>>> really needs something which looks after itself and requires bare
>>> minimal user maintenance. I was thinking perhaps a Chromebook or else
>>> something by Apple. But I'm a bit out of touch. There may be something
>>> better out there nowadays. It's just email and Farcebook he uses
>>> mainly. Anyway, suggestions welcome and will be passed on. Cheers.
>>>
>>> Dave,
>>>
>>> Dagenham, UK
>>>
>>
>> No brainer. iPad.
>
> My geriatric idiot neighbor can manage linux mint, but could not manage
> an Ipad
>
> touch screen is utter shit really,

No, not really.

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 5:39:25 PMSep 25
to
No, I looked at every page. Ther was no mention at all., In fact there
only was one page


Any passing school age child could have
> told you though.
Perhaps they could.

I had only used a G4
Never an Iphone

>
>>
>> Every few weeks he used to phone me up and say that the phone wasnt
>> working. He had accidentally slid the little mute button on tthe phone
>> while just holding it.
>>
>> Apple is utter shit
>>
>> There is a given point - and frankly he is on the cusp - where you have
>> to tell some people 'you are too stupid to use a computer'
>
> You’ve clearly demonstrated your own lack of IT credentials.

Lol!


>
> Tim

Andy Burns

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 5:55:39 PMSep 25
to
The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> My geriatric idiot neighbor can manage linux mint, but could not manage an Ipad
> touch screen is utter shit really,

you can get a magnetically attached keyboard, turns it into a semi-laptop.

72y33

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 6:10:52 PMSep 25
to
The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote
Then you need to get out more.

> OTOH the OP said PC, not laptop

Fuck all have those anymore.

Rod Speed

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 6:38:08 PMSep 25
to
The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote
> newshound wrote
>> Dave Johnson wrote

>>> An old pal of mine (just turned 80) is *very* computer illiterate and
>>> really struggles like hell with keeping Windows running on his PC. He
>>> really needs something which looks after itself and requires bare
>>> minimal user maintenance. I was thinking perhaps a Chromebook or else
>>> something by Apple. But I'm a bit out of touch. There may be something
>>> better out there nowadays. It's just email and Farcebook he uses
>>> mainly. Anyway, suggestions welcome and will be passed on. Cheers.
>>>
>>> Dave,
>>>
>>> Dagenham, UK
>>>
>>
>> No brainer. iPad.

> My geriatric idiot neighbor can manage linux mint, but could not manage an
> Ipad

Most of the geriatrics find the reverse.

> touch screen is utter shit really,

Plenty of bluetooth keyboards for ipads.

> Today after 3 years I actually managed to answer a call on my android
> phone, by slowly sliding up my finger.

Figures. You should have got an iphone.

> Everything else needs a tap, or a quick swipe. The phone needs a slow
> swipe.

iphones don’t.

> Utter crap

Yep, you are that in spades.

> Ipad cant see half the videos on the net.

Bullshit.

> Only does H264/AAC Foirget Webm/Vorbis

Wrong, as always.


Fredxx

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 7:16:36 PMSep 25
to
On 25/09/2021 23:38, Rod Speed wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote
>> newshound wrote
>>> Dave Johnson wrote
>
>>>> An old pal of mine (just turned 80) is *very* computer illiterate and
>>>> really struggles like hell with keeping Windows running on his PC. He
>>>> really needs something which looks after itself and requires bare
>>>> minimal user maintenance. I was thinking perhaps a Chromebook or else
>>>> something by Apple. But I'm a bit out of touch. There may be something
>>>> better out there nowadays. It's just email and Farcebook he uses
>>>> mainly. Anyway, suggestions welcome and will be passed on. Cheers.
>>>>
>>>> Dave,
>>>>
>>>> Dagenham, UK
>>>>
>>>
>>> No brainer. iPad.
>
>> My geriatric idiot neighbor can manage linux mint, but could not
>> manage an Ipad
>
> Most of the geriatrics find the reverse.

I agree. The iPad is designed for people who are computer illiterate. It
suits the geriatric community.

Rod Speed

unread,
Sep 25, 2021, 8:19:53 PMSep 25
to
Fredxx <fre...@nospam.co.uk> wrote
Yeah, Jobs always required that his grandmother would be able to use it.

> It suits the geriatric community.

And lots of others as well.

Tim+

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 3:20:52 AMSep 26
to
The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 25/09/2021 22:21, Tim+ wrote:

>>
>> You’ve clearly demonstrated your own lack of IT credentials.
>
> Lol!

>>> After an hour I found a site on line that showed you what te pater clip
>>> thing was used for.

I rest my case.

Chris Bacon

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 3:45:45 AMSep 26
to
> On 25/09/2021 15:19, Dave Johnson wrote >> An old pal of mine (just turned 80) is *very* computer illiterate
and>> really struggles like hell with keeping Windows running on his PC.
He>> really needs something which looks after itself and requires bare>>
minimal user maintenance. I was thinking perhaps a Chromebook or else>>
something by Apple. But I'm a bit out of touch. There may be something>>
better out there nowadays. It's just email and Farcebook he uses>> mainly.
All he's got to do is allow the thing to update its O/S, and the same
for the browser. There's very little indeed he needs to do, bar "follow
the prompts". Apart from that, the only maintenance he might wat to do
is "delete stuff if he fulls up the disk". So what is the struggle? Is
he trying to "do maintenance" that does not need doing?

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 3:48:22 AMSep 26
to
On 26/09/2021 08:20, Tim+ wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 25/09/2021 22:21, Tim+ wrote:
>
>>>
>>> You’ve clearly demonstrated your own lack of IT credentials.
>>
>> Lol!
>
>>>> After an hour I found a site on line that showed you what te pater clip
>>>> thing was used for.
>
> I rest my case.
>
you are an example of something that I came across in the early days of
Windows.

A cunt who allows that since he learnt am arcane and arbitrary piece of
information about an obscure aspect of a proprietary computing system,
he 'knows more about computers' than you do.


How many Bioses have you written - or multitasking kernels. Or in fact
interpreters?

> Tim
>
It is clear that if you own Apple kit, you are expected to take it into
an Apple shop and pay a man to do it for you.
Thus adding to the allure of the product - it identifies you as too
stupid to do it for yourself, and too effluent to need to...

--
“Some people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of
a car with the cramped public exposure of 
an airplane.”

Dennis Miller

Andy Burns

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 3:53:45 AMSep 26
to
Chris Bacon wrote:

> Dave Johnson wrote
>
>> An old pal of mine (just turned 80) is *very* computer illiterate and
>> really struggles like hell with keeping Windows running on his PC. >
> All he's got to do is allow the thing to update its O/S

Have you never seen a Windows install that gets "stuck" and refuses to update?
usually it only needs a gentle nudge, other times a good hard kick in the balls.

You don't seem to appreciate how little some people know about computers, yes
linux may be better, but it still stuffs itself up from time to time and if you
don't know what to do you're still fucked.

Cursitor Doom

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 3:57:41 AMSep 26
to
On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 20:01:24 +0100, Dave Johnson <dave...@pcl.co.uk>
If you have to ask that, it's beyond you anyway - let alone your
elderly friend.
--

"There are, besides, eternal truths, such as Freedom, Justice, etc., that are
common to all states of society. But Communism abolishes eternal truths, it
abolishes all religion,and all morality, instead of constituting them on a new
basis; it therefore acts in contradiction to all historical experience."

- The Communist Manifesto, Marx & Engels.

Peeler

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 4:06:24 AMSep 26
to
On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 08:10:45 +1000, 72y33, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile pest's latest trollshit unread>

--
John addressing the trolling senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID: <f9056fe6-1479-40ff...@googlegroups.com>

Peeler

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 4:11:03 AMSep 26
to
On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 08:38:01 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
MrTu...@down.the.farm about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID: <ps10v9$uo2$1...@gioia.aioe.org>

Peeler

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 4:13:04 AMSep 26
to
On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 10:19:46 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Marland revealing the senile sociopath's pathology:
"You have mentioned Alexa in a couple of threads recently, it is not a real
woman you know even if it is the only thing with a female name that stays
around around while you talk it to it.
Poor sad git who has to resort to Usenet and electronic devices for any
interaction as all real people run a mile to get away from you boring them
to death."
MID: <gfkt3m...@mid.individual.net>

Chris Bacon

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 4:38:23 AMSep 26
to
On 26/09/2021 08:53, Andy Burns wrote:

> Have you never seen a Windows install that gets "stuck" and refuses to
> update? usually it only needs a gentle nudge, other times a good hard
> kick in the balls.

Not on my home PCs, no. I assume the chap referred to will have a
standard "as purchased" setup, unless of course someone's been farting
about with it...

Chris Bacon

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 4:42:18 AMSep 26
to
On 26/09/2021 08:20, Tim+ wrote:
> Tim

Pardon me for asking, but are you the same entity as "ne...@spaced.me.uk
(T i m)"

Martin Brown

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 5:43:04 AMSep 26
to
On 25/09/2021 16:59, Theo wrote:
> Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>> One question first - does he have a reasonable internet speed. Some old
>> folk try to keep going are on <1Mbps ADSL or even no internet at all!
>>
>> My vote would be for Apple iPad in this sort of case since they are
>> robust and almost maintenance free. Windows borks itself with monotonous
>> regularity - particularly in the hands of the computer illiterate.
>>
>> A Samsung Android device would also be another option worth considering
>> if it is only for web browsing and email. Various nice apps on either
>> platform for chess, sudoku and crossword for example.
>
> A tablet with a keyboard dock would be the thing I'd look at - it's quite
> happy for you to poke it directly with your fingers so you don't have to
> worry about using a mouse (although elderly fingers can struggle sometimes).
>
> Although do they need a large screen (eyesight problems?) Then they get
> slightly more unwieldy if you want to plugin to a monitor as well, although
> you can do it.

A fair point. You can alter the font settings in Doze to make system
text larger (but that is into geek territory) - it ought to be made
easier to do. Perhaps it has improved in Win10 I don't know.

I was quite fond of my ASUS T100 10.1" Win 8.x convertable which I
mostly used as a micro portable when travelling. It was quite cute but
not very powerful. I got it for the inclusive Office 2013 deal.

I hated Win 8 though. Cubist Picasso on a bad acid trip.

> The advantage of a tablet or laptop is it's easy to take it to someone if
> you need help. If they take it places, something with LTE and a cheap
> monthly SIM card they don't need to worry about setting up internet - some
> people can't handle configuring wifi.

Metered data can be a bit of a bind when Mickeysoft keep sending out
multi GB "updates" on a near weekly basis. Apple is no better in that
respect - we do large updates at my brother in laws since unreliable wet
string internet and multi GB updates do not get on at all well.

> Although if they have struggled with Windows it sounds like they're not a
> complete notice in terms of using mice, wifi, etc.

A tablet of some sort is probably their best bet.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 6:35:41 AMSep 26
to
On 26/09/2021 08:53, Andy Burns wrote:
(a) actually Linux Mint has only once ever in the last ten years 'fucked
itself up' with a routine upgrade, and that was when a kernel upgrade
broke broadcomm wifi, because they didn't upgrade the drivers at the
same time, and Linus Torvalds blew his stack so comprehensively it has
never happened again.

(b) all upgrades of e.g. Firefox/Thunderbird are liable to issues
whatever the platform.

(c) You are less likely therefore to experience upgrade hell with Linux
than Windows, This is a matter of established fact.

(d) What the issue then devolves to is balancing that against the
professional help you may need to sort it and its availability.

No 80 year old non computer literate person has a cats chance in hell of
sorting out an upgrade mess no matter what the platform.

Someone is going to have to sort it out for him, so his choice really
devolves down to who is going to do that an their technical background.


In the case of the broken wifi, that was a matter of using ethernet to
get it on the network, and then downgrading the broken kernel - a very
simple exercise with no command line necessary but definitely as beyond
an 80 year old computer ignoramus as whatever is required to fix windows
upgrades.

So the issue devolves down to the skill set of the OP who is presumably
going to be supporting his 80 year old acquaintance.

I pointed out Mint as being the lowest maintenance option bar none I
have ever installed or had to support on any desktop computer, ever.

Its up there with the old VMS installs in terms of 'just working'

It is also way easier to install than any windows install - granted that
XP was the last time I installed windows

But the issue is this.
No 80 year old unaided computer illiterate is going to be able to make
an informed choice, or support his set up adequately, therefore the
choice of what to install has nothing to do with the 80 year olds
ability to support it.

The only key issues are

- how easy is it to do the routine activities of upgrading, email and
social media, once set up?
- how likely is it to need intervention by someone who *can* install and
maintain it?
- how hard is it for *that* person to install and maintain it?

Linux Mint wins on all three counts. In particular the extremely
configurability of the desktop means you can take away nearly all the
buttons and clickables that do unexpected things. And just leave what
the poor guy needs to click on. In my case I have a laptop that is set
up to do really only three things - listen to music surf, and watch
videos and TV all via a browser, and talk skype to one friend who
refuses to use anything else. Its desktop is almost icon-less, and the
task bar is extremely stripped down as well.


If you can set up an android phone you can most certainly set up a Mint
setup.




--
“The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools.”

Herbert Spencer

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 6:55:16 AMSep 26
to
No, it isn't.
Really Cursitor, I dunno what you have against it.

It's a lot easier to install and set up than an I phone.

You should try it.

When I was running my IT business I loved windows for desktops and Unix
for servers. Later on it became Linux for servers, but desktops? no. X
windows barely worked and there were few applications to run on it and
peripheral support was patchy.

That was in 1997.
TWENTY FOUR YEARS ago.

I carried on with windows until around 2004, when Debian linux proved to
be just usable for email, browsing and word processing. I kept windows
98 for other specialist stuff like CAD etc. I think it caught about
three viruses in that time - no idea how.

a couple of years later first using VMware, and then Virtual Box, I
managed to get rid of the Windows machine by installing XP in a virtual
machine.

I also was running a Macintosh OSX setup. But support for Macintosh
turned out to be none existent

'take it into a mac store' 'buy a newer mac; ' buy the later software
app' 'well dont try an interface it with anything except another mac then'

15 years later I still have that XP virtual machine for two CAD programs
and one very specialist engineering calculator. Through about 15
versions of debian and Mint linx


I have never caught a virus. Support and code quality has simply got
better and better., I switched to Mint because it had better multimedia
support than debian. And I like watching videos and listening to music.
To my delight is also had the simplest and best installation of any
operating system, including OSX and Windows, I have ever used.

All you need to do is give the computer a name, yourself a name and
password, and tell it what timezone you are in. That's it.

Now if you are a guru you can of course do a lot more. For sure I write
websites, have weird and complex networking and have installed many
other peculiar bits of code on it but you don't need to, to get a basic
word preprocessor/spreadsheet/email/browser/drive a printer/use a
scanner/ use a microphone and web cam setup

Mint is designed not for gurus, it's designed for someone who has never
ever used linux before, to make the installation and basic setup as
simple and as painless as possible. And they have succeeded mightily.

If you have never installed it, please don't knock it. It is a lot
easier than setting up a mobile phone.


> --
>
> "There are, besides, eternal truths, such as Freedom, Justice, etc., that are
> common to all states of society. But Communism abolishes eternal truths, it
> abolishes all religion,and all morality, instead of constituting them on a new
> basis; it therefore acts in contradiction to all historical experience."
>
> - The Communist Manifesto, Marx & Engels.
>


Brian Gaff (Sofa)

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 6:58:02 AMSep 26
to
Well, I'd only suggest a chrome book if there is a decent reliable and fast
connection to the internet.
I think finding out exactly what his issue is with Windows first. He might
also enjoy one of the overlays to windows, though I do not know if they have
social media. Say, Dolphin Guide connect, its mostly meant for blind people
who have no interest in computers and is a suite of applications to do
common stuff easily once set up.
On the other hand if he can use a smart phone, then I might suggest the
Synapptics overlay for android or the voice driven in your pocket device.
The more basic you get however the more limited are the tasks you can do and
the less you learn about how windows works which is really pretty simple
compared to the old days. Its so idiot proof that non idiots hate it. grin.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Dave Johnson" <dave...@pcl.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4mbukgtgkejejkp45...@4ax.com...
> Hi all,
>
> An old pal of mine (just turned 80) is *very* computer illiterate and
> really struggles like hell with keeping Windows running on his PC. He
> really needs something which looks after itself and requires bare
> minimal user maintenance. I was thinking perhaps a Chromebook or else
> something by Apple. But I'm a bit out of touch. There may be something
> better out there nowadays. It's just email and Farcebook he uses
> mainly. Anyway, suggestions welcome and will be passed on. Cheers.
>
> Dave,
>
> Dagenham, UK


Brian Gaff (Sofa)

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 6:59:27 AMSep 26
to
If his eyesight is even a little low, I'd not suggest Linux myself.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:sincod$j4r$1...@dont-email.me...
> On 25/09/2021 15:19, Dave Johnson wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> An old pal of mine (just turned 80) is *very* computer illiterate and
>> really struggles like hell with keeping Windows running on his PC. He
>> really needs something which looks after itself and requires bare
>> minimal user maintenance. I was thinking perhaps a Chromebook or else
>> something by Apple. But I'm a bit out of touch. There may be something
>> better out there nowadays. It's just email and Farcebook he uses
>> mainly. Anyway, suggestions welcome and will be passed on. Cheers.
>>
> To be honest if he knows NOTHING about computers set him up on Linux Mint,
> and set it up so that what he uses is accessible in a very simple way
>
> Mint updates itself fairly seamlessly. Just needs a password to be set up
> for maintenance
>
>
>
> you need with the latest release about 4GB RAM to run those two And a 64
> bit machine with DVD drive probably later than 2005
>
> https://linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=289
>
> It comes with firefox and thunderbird as standard.
>
> I tend to put those two plus a main menu plus a shutdown button on the
> menu bar and that's it. For my 'not fore anything complicated' laptop
>
> Chrome is not easier to use and its slow.
>
> Apple is horrendously bad for some video support - wont play anything non
> apple - and its expensive.
>
> don't buy a new machine - wipe his windows machine.
>
> You can test it all before installation by inserting the live DVD and
> booting from it.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
> rule.
> - H. L. Mencken, American journalist, 1880-1956


Robin

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 8:36:02 AMSep 26
to
AFAICS no one has a clue how the "old pal" uses email. I know one
octogenarian who uses Outlook 97.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Custos Custodum

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 9:33:00 AMSep 26
to
On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 08:38:01 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote
>> newshound wrote
>>> Dave Johnson wrote
>
>>>> An old pal of mine (just turned 80) is *very* computer illiterate and
>>>> really struggles like hell with keeping Windows running on his PC. He
>>>> really needs something which looks after itself and requires bare
>>>> minimal user maintenance. I was thinking perhaps a Chromebook or else
>>>> something by Apple. But I'm a bit out of touch. There may be something
>>>> better out there nowadays. It's just email and Farcebook he uses
>>>> mainly. Anyway, suggestions welcome and will be passed on. Cheers.
>>>>
>>>> Dave,
>>>>
>>>> Dagenham, UK
>>>>
>>>
>>> No brainer. iPad.
>
>> My geriatric idiot neighbor can manage linux mint, but could not manage an
>> Ipad
>
>Most of the geriatrics find the reverse.
>
>> touch screen is utter shit really,
>
>Plenty of bluetooth keyboards for ipads.

And plenty that Apple products refuse to recognise. Apple's Bluetooth
implementation is a POS. It won't even talk directly to other Apple
devices. There is a feature which allows you to transfer data from an
old iPhone (6 or higher) to a newer one, but that uses a peer-to-peer
wifi connection, not BT.

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 10:33:43 AMSep 26
to
It is alarming also how few video protocols Apple supports. I believe
You tube detects it is an Apple device and modifies the stream
accordingly...


--
"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted
man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest
thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly
persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid
before him."

- Leo Tolstoy

Paul

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 10:38:05 AMSep 26
to
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 26/09/2021 08:53, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Chris Bacon wrote:
>>
>>> Dave Johnson wrote
>>>> An old pal of mine (just turned 80) is *very* computer illiterate and
>>>> really struggles like hell with keeping Windows running on his PC. >
>>> All he's got to do is allow the thing to update its O/S
>>
>> Have you never seen a Windows install that gets "stuck" and refuses to
>> update? usually it only needs a gentle nudge, other times a good hard
>> kick in the balls.
>>
>> You don't seem to appreciate how little some people know about
>> computers, yes linux may be better, but it still stuffs itself up from
>> time to time and if you don't know what to do you're still fucked.
>
> (a) actually Linux Mint has only once ever in the last ten years 'fucked
> itself up' with a routine upgrade, and that was when a kernel upgrade
> broke broadcomm wifi, because they didn't upgrade the drivers at the
> same time, and Linus Torvalds blew his stack so comprehensively it has
> never happened again.

But this is mission failure.

You're admitting that the solution has an "underneath".
Now our putative user knows what a kernel is. And that
a kernel is evil.

Now, take a look at this. No Terminal.

"Setting up ChromeBook"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKXXj_dguz0

I tested that on a regular PC, by using Neverware CloudReady,
which is where I got a taste of how simple it is. [Note:
While the install was flawless on the first PC I tried that
on, it was a fluke. Subsequent tests of Neverware with
different hardware in it, flopped. YMMV.]

https://www.neverware.com/freedownload#home-edition-overview

(I think the thing I got to try out, is discontinued. But at least
I didn't need to buy a Chromebook, to see what it is like.) Chromebook
is an honest attempt at an "appliance" and not a
"lab experiment".

It's not for everyone. Not everyone wants an appliance experience.
But for a person who has a tendency to "fall into holes",
this is a better solution than Windows or Linux, both of which
will leave you pining for the fjords. I could well believe
that Grandma uses that, without issue.

Over a wide variety of Linux distros tested here, if the
kernel updates, the screen goes black on the next boot.
The Chromebook won't be pulling that trick :-) With the
Chromebook, I might not even be aware it has maintenance
underneath. (It's not a problem for me to fix the black
screen - I keep a USB boot stick handy to revive hard
drive installs with. Editing the boot menu and getting
the alternatives up on the screen is enough to get back in.)

Paul

Dave Johnson

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 11:31:20 AMSep 26
to
On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 11:55:12 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
Great. SO WHERE DO I GET IT????


Dave,

Dagenham, UK

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 12:41:47 PMSep 26
to
I posted you a link

Not my fault if you kill filed me

https://linuxmint.com/edition.php?id=282

>
>
> Dave,
>
> Dagenham, UK
>


--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

Tim+

unread,
Sep 26, 2021, 1:18:13 PMSep 26
to
The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 26/09/2021 08:20, Tim+ wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 25/09/2021 22:21, Tim+ wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> You’ve clearly demonstrated your own lack of IT credentials.
>>>
>>> Lol!
>>
>>>>> After an hour I found a site on line that showed you what te pater clip
>>>>> thing was used for.
>>
>> I rest my case.
>>
> you are an example of something that I came across in the early days of
> Windows.
>
> A cunt who allows that since he learnt am arcane and arbitrary piece of
> information about an obscure aspect of a proprietary computing system,
> he 'knows more about computers' than you do.

Fuck no. I concede you know a fuck load more about computers than I do but
seriously, an hour to find out how to insert a SIM card in an iPhone?? You
have heard of the internet and search engines?

That’s hardly arcane and arbitrary. If you hadn’t been living in the dark
ages for the past ten years you would know that pop-out sim trays have been
adopted by many manufacturers.