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Any good for heating 3 room flat?

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Mike Halmarack

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Dec 19, 2023, 4:19:12 AM12/19/23
to
I saw this heating and cooling method mentioned on Reddit as a less
expensive and more easily installable option for heating three small
rooms and a kitchen in a first floor flat.
It's said to be designed for a large room, though I don't know whether
I would need more than one of these, or be able to transfer heat from
a single unit in the lounge.

https://tinyurl.com/yd8pt9en
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Mike

wasbit

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Dec 19, 2023, 4:40:12 AM12/19/23
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Dunno, but I changed & trimmed your link to (which will still probably wrap)
-
https://www.aircondirect.co.uk/p/1449870/10000-btu-wall-mounted-air-conditioner-and-heat-pump-without-outdoor-unit-with-wifi-for-rooms-up-to-30-sqm?

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Regards
wasbit

Theo

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Dec 19, 2023, 5:11:07 AM12/19/23
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Mike Halmarack <mikeha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I saw this heating and cooling method mentioned on Reddit as a less
> expensive and more easily installable option for heating three small
> rooms and a kitchen in a first floor flat.
> It's said to be designed for a large room, though I don't know whether
> I would need more than one of these, or be able to transfer heat from
> a single unit in the lounge.

58dB, which is roughly the sound of a conversation, but more annoying as
it'll be more of a drone. It could also be quite close to your head in a
small flat.

Fine for occasional cooling in the summer (it's just a portable a/c unit
with proper ducting) but I wouldn't want it droning all winter.

I would look at air to air heatpump units where the compressor and its noise
go outside, but you'll need permission for that.

Theo

Alan Lee

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Dec 19, 2023, 5:19:08 AM12/19/23
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On 19/12/2023 09:19, Mike Halmarack wrote:
Its an integrated air-con unit, all the workings are in the inside box.
I doubt it would do the whole house from the one unit, a max of 2800
watts, without having to propel the air into other rooms, so it wouldnt
heat much more than the one room unless you are in a small well
insulated house.
Better may be a proper air-con, with one larger outdoor unit, supplying
3 or 4 rooms. Certainly quieter, the one linked is 58db, thats a lot for
an indoor unit.
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David Wade

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Dec 19, 2023, 6:13:43 AM12/19/23
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On 19/12/2023 09:19, Mike Halmarack wrote:
> I saw this heating and cooling method mentioned on Reddit as a less
> expensive and more easily installable option for heating three small
> rooms and a kitchen in a first floor flat.

I am not sure about "easily installable" as it needs to be mounted on an
outside wall, and then you need large holes in the outside wall, so you
will probably still need scaffold to install and fit the outside vent
covers. If there are flats above you may get all sorts of issues with
putting such large holes in the outside wall.

I see it also uses an external drain pipe, which they show in all the
pictures, but don't mention, so you would need to run that down the
outside of the flats.

> It's said to be designed for a large room, though I don't know whether
> I would need more than one of these, or be able to transfer heat from
> a single unit in the lounge.
>

You will need more than one. That is why we put a radiator in each room.
I have split units which distribute in the same way. virtually no affect
on other rooms. Think of it as any other fan heater, just it costs less
to run.


> https://tinyurl.com/yd8pt9en

As others have said look at a proper split units. I have Mitsubishi.
They will run multi-split units, so one outdoor unit will serve several
internal units, each of which provide heating or cooling (in fact
everything that unit does) for several internal rooms. You will need
internal pipework but its only one smaller hole in the outside wall

Control from an app or Smart Speaker

https://les.mitsubishielectric.co.uk/products/air-conditioning/multi-splits

yes you need an outside unit, but that moves the noisy stuff out the the
room. yes you still need a drain but perhaps you could mount that at
ground level...

any questions, feel free to ask...

Dave.

Mike Halmarack

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Dec 19, 2023, 6:27:51 AM12/19/23
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On 19 Dec 2023 10:11:00 +0000 (GMT), Theo
Thanks, yes, that's the other tricky bit.
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Mike

Mike Halmarack

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Dec 19, 2023, 6:30:01 AM12/19/23
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On Tue, 19 Dec 2023 10:19:02 +0000, Alan Lee <al...@darkroom.plus.com>
wrote:
The mainly indoor feature of it is the main attraction but not if the
other aspects of it would be problematic.
--

Mike

Mike Halmarack

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Dec 19, 2023, 6:37:43 AM12/19/23
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On Tue, 19 Dec 2023 11:13:39 +0000, David Wade <g4...@dave.invalid>
wrote:

>yes you need an outside unit, but that moves the noisy stuff out the the
>room. yes you still need a drain but perhaps you could mount that at
>ground level...
>
>any questions, feel free to ask...

Thanks.
I really need something that's going to be inside the flat.
At present I have two mobile, oil filled radiators bought from the
local supermarket. They warm the flat well enough but if there are
similar unobtrusive units that are more economical to run that would
be helpful.
--

Mike

Theo

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Dec 19, 2023, 7:45:57 AM12/19/23
to
David Wade <g4...@dave.invalid> wrote:
> On 19/12/2023 09:19, Mike Halmarack wrote:
> > I saw this heating and cooling method mentioned on Reddit as a less
> > expensive and more easily installable option for heating three small
> > rooms and a kitchen in a first floor flat.
>
> I am not sure about "easily installable" as it needs to be mounted on an
> outside wall, and then you need large holes in the outside wall, so you
> will probably still need scaffold to install and fit the outside vent
> covers. If there are flats above you may get all sorts of issues with
> putting such large holes in the outside wall.

Appliances Direct brands are just cheap clones, but Olimpia Splendid is one
major brand (they are popular in Italy):
https://www.olimpiasplendid.com/without-outdoor-unit

For those they're designed so you can install them without outdoor access eg
in tower blocks: you drill the hole using a cutter that keeps the core (so
not falling on somebody's head below) and then you fit a duct through the
hole which unfolds to form the grommet on the outside. There is an
additional condensate drain hole, which you will need if you can't drain it
internally.

> I see it also uses an external drain pipe, which they show in all the
> pictures, but don't mention, so you would need to run that down the
> outside of the flats.

It doesn't need to be run down the outside, you can just run a pipe through
the wall. Whoever is below may not like condensate dripping on them,
though. It is probably possible to run it into the internal drainage
system, using a condensate pump as needed (this is common for a/c room units
in big buildings which are far from an outside wall).

Bear in mind that all this is at 'outside' temperature, so you may want to
insulate pipework so it doesn't encounter the icy air.
(it seems these are primarily designed as air conditioners and I wonder how
well insulated the 'cold' parts of the unit are, or whether it's a big cold
lump inside your room)

> > It's said to be designed for a large room, though I don't know whether
> > I would need more than one of these, or be able to transfer heat from
> > a single unit in the lounge.
> >
>
> You will need more than one. That is why we put a radiator in each room.
> I have split units which distribute in the same way. virtually no affect
> on other rooms. Think of it as any other fan heater, just it costs less
> to run.

You could potentially duct air from one room to another, internally. Won't
be as good as running refrigerant (or water) lines though.

> yes you need an outside unit, but that moves the noisy stuff out the the
> room. yes you still need a drain but perhaps you could mount that at
> ground level...
>
> any questions, feel free to ask...

The 'indoor' units aren't a terrible idea if planning prevents you having an
outdoor unit. But they probably work better in a large and airy Italian
apartment than a one bed council flat.

Theo

David Wade

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Dec 19, 2023, 7:53:41 AM12/19/23
to
Oil filled radiators are probably your best option. You might want to
consider one of the wall mounted heatpumps for you main room, but they
are noisier than splits and you still have the issue of ruddy great
holes in the wall and a drain.

I really would try an get permission for a split for your "main" room.
If its small you should get a split for the same price as the wall unit.
Of course the real issue will be permission...

... oh and electric blankets?


Dave

Theo

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Dec 19, 2023, 8:12:25 AM12/19/23
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Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> You could potentially duct air from one room to another, internally. Won't
> be as good as running refrigerant (or water) lines though.

Also to note Olimpia have some units with secondary fan coils for indoor
use: eg you mount the noisy box in the living room and the fan coil in the
bedroom:

https://www.olimpiasplendid.com/without-outdoor-unit/unico-twin_1

Still 57dB for the main unit though, but potentially you can mount that in a
less noise sensitive place.

Theo

alan_m

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Dec 19, 2023, 8:40:35 AM12/19/23
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On 19/12/2023 12:45, Theo wrote:


> For those they're designed so you can install them without outdoor access eg
> in tower blocks: you drill the hole using a cutter that keeps the core (so
> not falling on somebody's head below)

I'm sure that works fine and there is zero risk for those who may
walking below.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Theo

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Dec 19, 2023, 11:41:34 AM12/19/23
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alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On 19/12/2023 12:45, Theo wrote:
>
>
> > For those they're designed so you can install them without outdoor access eg
> > in tower blocks: you drill the hole using a cutter that keeps the core (so
> > not falling on somebody's head below)
>
> I'm sure that works fine and there is zero risk for those who may
> walking below.

You might cordon off the pavement for half an hour while doing so but you
don't need a full access platform, which will be expensive to get to the
13th floor.

Theo

Andy Burns

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Dec 19, 2023, 1:38:09 PM12/19/23
to
Alan Lee wrote:

> Mike Halmarack wrote:
>
>> I saw this heating  and cooling method mentioned on Reddit
>> https://tinyurl.com/yd8pt9en
>
> Its an integrated air-con unit

After the multiple redirections, it's not clear which of several items
within that category it was intended to link to, the big items in the
banner at the top were oil filled radiators ...


Andrew

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Dec 23, 2023, 12:34:17 PM12/23/23
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On 19/12/2023 11:37, Mike Halmarack wrote:
What happened to the heating system that the original
builder installed ?.

Andrew

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Dec 23, 2023, 12:36:04 PM12/23/23
to
Getting permission from the freeholder, however, is another
issue.

Owain Lastname

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Dec 23, 2023, 2:39:35 PM12/23/23
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On Saturday 23 December 2023 at 17:34:17 UTC, Andrew wrote:
> What happened to the heating system that the original
> builder installed ?.

In my case, it was disconnected about 1975 when they realised that 1960s electric underfloor heating wasn't actually going to be 'too cheap to meter'

Owain

The Natural Philosopher

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Dec 24, 2023, 6:46:38 AM12/24/23
to
Wait another 15 years and it will be,

In France they use all electric heating because nuclear is very very cheap.

> Owain
>

--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

The Natural Philosopher

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Dec 24, 2023, 8:17:29 AM12/24/23
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On 24/12/2023 13:08, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Dec 2023 11:46:33 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 23/12/2023 19:39, Owain Lastname wrote:
>>> On Saturday 23 December 2023 at 17:34:17 UTC, Andrew wrote:
>>>> What happened to the heating system that the original
>>>> builder installed ?.
>>>
>>> In my case, it was disconnected about 1975 when they realised that 1960s electric underfloor heating wasn't actually going to be 'too cheap to meter'
>>>
>> Wait another 15 years and it will be,
>>
>> In France they use all electric heating because nuclear is very very cheap.
>>
>>> Owain
>>>
>
> Yet I understand they are going to run down and close a lot of their
> nuclear power stations under pressure from the anti-nuclear lobby
> and/or the greens. That is, until the general population see their
> electricity bills soaring...
>
I think you will find that that was last years news. Macron thought that
was a vote winning stance.

Today:

"Twenty two countries have signed up to the goal of tripling global
nuclear energy capacity by 2050, at the UN's COP28 climate change
conference.

The heads of state, or senior officials, from Bulgaria, Canada, the
Czech Republic, Finland, *France*, Ghana, Hungary, Japan, South Korea,
Moldova, Mongolia, Morocco, the Netherlands, Poland, Romania, Slovakia,
Slovenia, Sweden, Ukraine, the United Arab Emirates, the UK and the USA
signed the declaration at the conference taking place in Dubai."

https://world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/Ministerial-declaration-puts-nuclear-at-heart-of-c


--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!



Andrew

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Dec 24, 2023, 10:39:47 AM12/24/23
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On 23/12/2023 19:39, Owain Lastname wrote:
If the ?tower block had been built with effective insulation
and airflow limitation (fat chance in that era) and double
glazing, and todays electronic controls were available, it
might have been halfway effective.


Andrew

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Dec 24, 2023, 10:45:40 AM12/24/23
to
On 24/12/2023 11:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 23/12/2023 19:39, Owain Lastname wrote:
>> On Saturday 23 December 2023 at 17:34:17 UTC, Andrew wrote:
>>> What happened to the heating system that the original
>>> builder installed ?.
>>
>> In my case, it was disconnected about 1975 when they realised that
>> 1960s electric underfloor heating wasn't actually going to be 'too
>> cheap to meter'
>>
> Wait another 15 years and it will be,
>
> In France they use all electric heating because nuclear is very very cheap.
>
Only because the French govt told EDF to sell electricity effectively
at a loss last year.
>> Owain
>>
>

The Natural Philosopher

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Dec 25, 2023, 1:13:20 AM12/25/23
to
Well the UK gov't has been doing that with renewables since 2010.

And making up the difference with taxpayer money, climate levies,
standing charges etc.


But before 2020 it was dirt cheap as well.

>>> Owain
>>>
>>
>

--
“I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the
greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most
obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of
conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which
they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by
thread, into the fabric of their lives.”

― Leo Tolstoy

Mike Halmarack

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Dec 25, 2023, 2:55:18 AM12/25/23
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On Tue, 19 Dec 2023 18:38:05 +0000, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk>
wrote:
Goes wher it should for me.
--

Mike

Mike Halmarack

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Dec 25, 2023, 3:01:16 AM12/25/23
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On Sat, 23 Dec 2023 17:34:09 +0000, Andrew <Andr...@btinternet.com>
wrote:
Originally it was 3 1970's night storage heaters which had been
replaced by 3 of wall mounted panel heaters from Lidl by a previous
occupier. I didn't like those, so they went.
--

Mike

Andy Burns

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Dec 25, 2023, 11:26:48 AM12/25/23
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Theo

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Dec 25, 2023, 5:50:32 PM12/25/23
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Chris Holmes

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Feb 17, 2024, 6:45:34 AMFeb 17
to

No need for an air source heat pump, much cheaper to heat your house with
one of those tiny plug in heaters that look like a plug in timer, or else a
tea light under a plant pot :).



alan_m

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Feb 17, 2024, 7:17:46 AMFeb 17
to
Both work quite well as long as the ambient temperature is 22C.

Chris Holmes

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Feb 19, 2024, 7:55:50 AMFeb 19
to
alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On 17/02/2024 11:45, Chris Holmes wrote:
>>
>> No need for an air source heat pump, much cheaper to heat your house with
>> one of those tiny plug in heaters that look like a plug in timer, or else a
>> tea light under a plant pot :).
>>
>>
>>
>
> Both work quite well as long as the ambient temperature is 22C.
>
>

lol!

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