MK - are they worth the extra?
Helen & Chris
You pay quite a price premium for MK sockets etc. compared to cheaper
'no-name' products.
Are there good technical, safety etc. reasons for choosing MK over
cheaper products?
As we are looking at a likely full rewiring eventually then it would
make quite a difference to the overall cost.
--
Helen and Chris
Email address valid for at least two weeks from posting.
Ed Sirett
Helen & Chris wrote in message ...
>You pay quite a price premium for MK sockets etc. compared to cheaper
>'no-name' products.
>
In the sheds the difference between MK and the 'unbranded' fittings is
enourmous, in my experience I think you will find that the trade counters
the difference is not so great.
I am ready to be flamed (and learn something in the process no doubt) but I
am of the school that says if it conforms to the relevant British Standard
then there is little to be gained by buy fittings that exceed that standard.
I expect that genuine compromises on safety lie elsewhere like poor
workmanship, excessive use of junctions (to save a few quid on the extra
length of cable here and there).
Incidently the trade counter I use stocks branded non-MK fittings like Deta,
Get, Wylex, Rock Ashley, Contactum, Hager, RDL...; all of these are cheaper
than the shed's unbranded stuff. Nevertheless they all pass BS nnnn.
>Are there good technical, safety etc. reasons for choosing MK over
>cheaper products?
>
>As we are looking at a likely full rewiring eventually then it would
>make quite a difference to the overall cost.
Better to save the money on Non-MK fittings and put the savings to have a
better installation/installer.
I am surprised that the fittings are a significant amount compared with the
labour aspect, unless its your own time. 8-)
Ed Sirett -- Property Maintainer
Frank Erskine
In article <TR9U2BAo...@spennithorne.demon.co.uk>, Helen & Chris
<news...@spennithorne.demon.co.uk> writes
>You pay quite a price premium for MK sockets etc. compared to cheaper
>'no-name' products.
>
>cheaper products?
When I rewired my parents' house a few years ago I used MK sockets and
had a lot of trouble with poor contact leading to overheating - often
when using MK plugs!
I changed most of them to Crabtree and we had no further trouble.
Contactum is another good make, although not very cheap.
--
Frank Erskine
Sunderland
http://www.g3wte.demon.co.uk/
Active Digital Security
>In article <TR9U2BAo...@spennithorne.demon.co.uk>, Helen & Chris
><news...@spennithorne.demon.co.uk> writes
>>You pay quite a price premium for MK sockets etc. compared to cheaper
>>'no-name' products.
>>
>>Are there good technical, safety etc. reasons for choosing MK over
>>cheaper products?
>
>When I rewired my parents' house a few years ago I used MK sockets and
>had a lot of trouble with poor contact leading to overheating - often
>when using MK plugs!
I've had problems too with MK fittings like this, but I'd not hesitate
to recommend the Senty consumer units - if it's made, it'll fit in
one. Mind you, I like to Contactum CUs and the Hagars too.
>I changed most of them to Crabtree and we had no further trouble.
>Contactum is another good make, although not very cheap.
Any more. i remember when Contactum hit the market and they couldn't
get it out cheap enough - BG are in a similar position today, and I
find that stuff highly adequate - quality enough, and cheap too.
Rgds
Bill Boyd
Active Security Systems
"What Could you be Missing?"
Professional Electronic Security Installation and Service
Visit www.alarms.demon.co.uk today.....
Andrew Gabriel
In article <TR9U2BAo...@spennithorne.demon.co.uk>,
Helen & Chris <news...@spennithorne.demon.co.uk> writes:
>You pay quite a price premium for MK sockets etc. compared to cheaper
>'no-name' products.
>
>Are there good technical, safety etc. reasons for choosing MK over
>cheaper products?
Personally, I have found their wall switches, socket outlets, etc
excellent, and I have insisted in their use both at home and at
work in the past. However, their new Logic (standard white plastic)
range is revolting in appearence, and I won't use it anymore.
The last time I needed a lot (6 months ago), my wholesaler did
a trawl around and managed to get the original Logic style, but
I doubt that would be possible now.
I am less happy with their consumer units, and would look for
someone else's next time. In an industrial setting, I've found
Federal Electric's CUs are good (if you're very careful, you can
fit and remove MCBs with the unit live, although that's not
something I expect they'll claim in the literature!).
>As we are looking at a likely full rewiring eventually then it would
>make quite a difference to the overall cost.
I'm sure there are some other good names out there too, but there
are certainly many bad ones. Of course, you don't need MK plaster
boxes and the like, even if you use their switchplates, outlets, etc.
If you're buying a reasonable number (box quantities), check the
price at local electrical wholesalers - I expect they'll be less
than the D-I-Y retailers, and they pretty well all sell to the
public.
--
Andrew Gabriel
Consultant Software Engineer
Woody
In article <896987458.41.0....@news.demon.co.uk>, Ed Sirett
<e...@makewrite.demon.co.uk> writes
>Helen & Chris wrote in message ...
>>'no-name' products.
>>
>
>enourmous, in my experience I think you will find that the trade counters
>the difference is not so great.
>I am ready to be flamed (and learn something in the process no doubt) but I
>am of the school that says if it conforms to the relevant British Standard
>then there is little to be gained by buy fittings that exceed that standard.
>I expect that genuine compromises on safety lie elsewhere like poor
>workmanship, excessive use of junctions (to save a few quid on the extra
>length of cable here and there).
>
>Incidently the trade counter I use stocks branded non-MK fittings like Deta,
>Get, Wylex, Rock Ashley, Contactum, Hager, RDL...; all of these are cheaper
>than the shed's unbranded stuff. Nevertheless they all pass BS nnnn.
>
>>cheaper products?
>>
>>make quite a difference to the overall cost.
>better installation/installer.
>
>
>I am surprised that the fittings are a significant amount compared with the
>labour aspect, unless its your own time. 8-)
>
>Ed Sirett -- Property Maintainer
>
>
problems with bulbs blowing - the switches concerned were Volex. I
replaced them with a B&Q special - Tenby I think - but to no avail, so I
lashed out on one MK (expensive by comparison) and a Crabtree (even
*more* expensive!) and bingo - the fault was gone.
When I rewired this house, except for dimmer switches, I fitted MK
throughout and have had just two bulb failures in eight years. Is this
a record?
--
Andrew W.
Harrogate, UK
wo...@tangon.demon.co.uk
g1uxp@gb7cym
To reply, replace nospam with tangon in the address.
nightjar
Helen & Chris <news...@spennithorne.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<TR9U2BAo...@spennithorne.demon.co.uk>...
> You pay quite a price premium for MK sockets etc. compared to cheaper
> 'no-name' products.
>
> Are there good technical, safety etc. reasons for choosing MK over
> cheaper products?
I use the Newey & Eyre own brand Newlec range of fittings for most
purposes. The only reason for choosing them was that they are my nearest
electrical distributor. However, their fittings stand up well to an
industrial environment.
I do use MK products when there is a particular reason, for example, their
Gridswitch range is particularly useful when creating switch banks in a
factory. At home I used MK products in the kitchen because one of their
metal fronted ranges matched the decor quite well. I also plan to use one
of the MK busbar systems in our new offices, to allow a more flexible
layout than ordinary socket outlets would permit. Desks tend to get
re-arranged rather more often than machines weighing a tonne or two.
Nightjar
Nigel Orr- Delete no.uce. for non-commercial email replies- Sorry!
>When I rewired my parents' house a few years ago I used MK sockets and
>had a lot of trouble with poor contact leading to overheating - often
>when using MK plugs!
Similarly, while I reckon MK quality does seem good generally, there
was, and may still be, a problem with fuseholders in their tuffplugs,
which didn't grip the fuse well enough, or loosened over time.
Nigel
Please Check AntiSpam for email replies...
Peter Riocreux
>> "Ed" == Ed Sirett <e...@makewrite.demon.co.uk> writes:
Ed> Helen & Chris wrote in message ...
>> You pay quite a price premium for MK sockets etc. compared to
>> cheaper 'no-name' products.
>>
Ed> In the sheds the difference between MK and the 'unbranded'
Ed> fittings is enourmous, in my experience I think you will find that
Ed> the trade counters the difference is not so great. I am ready to
Ed> be flamed (and learn something in the process no doubt) but I am
Ed> of the school that says if it conforms to the relevant British
Ed> Standard then there is little to be gained by buy fittings that
Ed> exceed that standard. I expect that genuine compromises on safety
Ed> lie elsewhere like poor workmanship, excessive use of junctions
Ed> (to save a few quid on the extra length of cable here and there).
The problem I discoved was that the Wickes sockets I bought were very
difficult to get plugs into, and the switch was very stiff. I would
now only buy branded sockets. Other things I would still buy
unbranded I think.
Pete
--
Peter Riocreux, Amulet Group, Dept. Computer Science, Manchester University,
Oxford Road, MANCHESTER, M13 9PL, UK. <http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/amulet/>
Voice: +44 161-2753531 Mobile: +44 7970-611366 Fax: +44 161-2756236
============================================================================
The University of Manchester celebrates the birth of the modern computer
http://www.computer50.org/
Keith Mendum
Helen & Chris wrote:
>
> You pay quite a price premium for MK sockets etc. compared to cheaper
> 'no-name' products.
>
> cheaper products?
>
is good news with youngsters around.
Otherwise Crabtree, Legrand, etc are good. Clipsal are excellent if you
want coloured faceplates and their version of Gridswitch achives the
highest switch density currently available (5 switches on a single
plate, 9 on a modified double).
--
Keith Mendum
My opinions, not Shell's
Check addresses before replying.
Chris French
>>'no-name' products.
>>
>
>labour aspect, unless its your own time. 8-)
>
--
Chris French and Helen Johnson
Leeds
Tom Mullan
In article <TR9U2BAo...@spennithorne.demon.co.uk>, Helen & Chris
<news...@spennithorne.demon.co.uk> writes
>'no-name' products.
>
>cheaper products?
>
version.
--
Tom
Charles (Joe) Stahelin
In article <9klnrc6...@cs.man.ac.uk>, Peter Riocreux
<rioc...@cs.man.ac.uk> writes
>The problem I discoved was that the Wickes sockets I bought were very
>difficult to get plugs into, and the switch was very stiff. I would
>now only buy branded sockets. Other things I would still buy
>unbranded I think.
I think this is a really useful discussion and the bones of it would
probaby be very deserving of a place in the FAQ.
I tend to look in the Maplin catalogue but have no idea of their
position in the quality ladder.
There is a comment in one of the articles about the quality of the
installation/installer in relation to the overall price of the job.
I would be tempted to do as much of an installation as I felt I could
properly manage but to leave adequately long tails for a professional to
come in to check my work and to set up the final connections to the
consumer unit and to the supply. Is it thought that this way of going
on is realistic ?
--
Charles (Joe) Stahelin,
Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK.
Gerry Duhig
The lesson I have learned over the years is to avoid the cheap little
5Amp round connector blocks that Great Mills and the like sell for
lighting. They look fine and are cheap, but when you try and use them
you find that you cannot get enough wires into each terminal post.
I struggled for over half an hour before breaking one and realising
that it wasn't just a fiddly job, it was totally b****y impossible!
Reason: I of course has wired my lighting circuit with 1.5mm cable not
1.0mm. They may be great for 1.0mm but useless with the larger cable
I simply use the big 20Amp boxes for every junction I need to make
now. I am removing ceiling lights and fitting wall lights all round,
so a fair few junctions to be done!
Gerry
On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 18:24:56 +0100, Helen & Chris
<news...@spennithorne.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>You pay quite a price premium for MK sockets etc. compared to cheaper
>'no-name' products.
>
>Are there good technical, safety etc. reasons for choosing MK over
>cheaper products?
>
Enda Murphy
I am currently renting a house awaiting for the builder to finish building
my new home. All the sockets and light switches in the rented house are 'no
name' and conform to the BS standard. The house is only 12 months old and
already we are having problems plugging appliances into the wall sockets and
the light switches are creaking on operation.... both of these problems are
quite annoying and have convinced me to install MK (or equivalent quality)
fittings into my new house.
Enda Murphy
----------
In article <TR9U2BAo...@spennithorne.demon.co.uk>, Helen & Chris
<news...@spennithorne.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>You pay quite a price premium for MK sockets etc. compared to cheaper
>'no-name' products.
>
>Are there good technical, safety etc. reasons for choosing MK over
>cheaper products?
>
>As we are looking at a likely full rewiring eventually then it would
>make quite a difference to the overall cost.
>--
>Helen and Chris
>Email address valid for at least two weeks from posting.
Mike Paley
On 1998-06-04 e...@makewrite.demon.co.uk said:
ed>Incidently the trade counter I use stocks
ed>branded non-MK fittings like Deta, Get, Wylex, Rock Ashley,
ed>Contactum, Hager, RDL...;
Rock Ashley, is that Ashley and Rock ?
New name, variant or what ?
Newsgroup replies may be sent via email until my ISP tells me
WTF is going on and why news doesn't get past their server sometimes.
We are working on this big mystery !
--
Comm again, Mike.
I've got a soft spot for my girlfriend, but it does go hard sometimes
Ex Turnpike user, Ex Demon customer WordStar worshipper,
Ex Windows 95 user, Ex Pentium user Windows 98 got as far as cre
Net-Tamer V 1.09.2 - Test Drive
Jem Barrett
In article <tb+rfAAk...@tangon.demon.co.uk>, Woody
<wo...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes
>Sorry Ed but I would have to disagree. At my last house I had regular
>problems with bulbs blowing - the switches concerned were Volex. I
>replaced them with a B&Q special - Tenby I think - but to no avail, so I
>lashed out on one MK (expensive by comparison) and a Crabtree (even
>*more* expensive!) and bingo - the fault was gone.
>
>When I rewired this house, except for dimmer switches, I fitted MK
>throughout and have had just two bulb failures in eight years. Is this
>a record?
Can you explain why different switches can cause lightbulbs to blow.
Since moving house my light bulbs do not seem to last very long. Could
the switches be the reason? I thought it might have had something to do
with too high a voltage but have not got round to measuring it.
Jem
Frank Erskine
In article <357c4...@titan.waverider.net.uk>, Mike Paley
<pmai...@waverider.co.yuk> writes
>On 1998-06-04 e...@makewrite.demon.co.uk said:
> ed>Incidently the trade counter I use stocks
> ed>branded non-MK fittings like Deta, Get, Wylex, Rock Ashley,
> ed>Contactum, Hager, RDL...;
>
>Rock Ashley, is that Ashley and Rock ?
Yes - it's Ashley & Rock, according to a cardboard box in front of me at
the moment.
--
Frank Erskine
Sunderland
Don't go metric - foot, pint and pound are perfectly sound.
Chris French
In article <OmCjLHAL...@shacc.demon.co.uk>, Tom Mullan
<t...@shacc.demon.co.uk> writes><news...@spennithorne.demon.co.uk> writes
>>You pay quite a price premium for MK sockets etc. compared to cheaper
>>'no-name' products.
>>
>>Are there good technical, safety etc. reasons for choosing MK over
>>cheaper products?
>>
>version.
As so often in these matters, I don't feel that I know much more than I
did before.
There was no clear vote yea or nay, but I have gone for some cheaper
versions for stage 1, the kitchen.
I can't remember what make they are, but I'm not convinced that MK are
worth the extra.
We shall have to wait and see........
If they turn out crap I'll let you know.
--
Chris French and Helen Johnson
Leeds
Email address valid for at least two weeks from posting
Wookey
> I am ready to be flamed (and learn something in the process no doubt) but I
> am of the school that says if it conforms to the relevant British Standard
> then there is little to be gained by buy fittings that exceed that standard.
In general I agree, and certainly getting stuff from your local trade place
is likely to be much better value than the shed (although things vary
significantly - check). However I have found that QVS's chepest sockets are
just a bit _too_ nasty. (very stiff switches, very stiff plug holes). I now
buy 'one up from the nastiest' sockets, which seems to be fine. You can feel
the difference between this and the nice MK stuff my house came with, but I'm
sure it'll work fine for years.
I second the 'never buy small junction boxes' post. Took me a few wasted
hours to discover that they are useless for anything larger than 1.0mm
wiring.
QVS do a good catalogue and have very cheap gear as well as posh stuff. They
have a few branches, mostly in the south east. My local supplier only does
the better-quality stuff, but I can cycle there. For big projects it's worth
the trip to QVS, or wait a couple of days for delivery...
Wookey
--
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/ play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/
Stephen Dawson
No one has mention that MK has one of the highest return rates for burnt out
equipment in the industry so much so that a certain stockist will not hold
it.
I use Contactum, nice big terminals, not bad looking, and a sensible price.
Just my bit.
Steve Dawson
steve...@athene.co.u*k remove * to mail me
John Laird
In article <357cd...@news.wisper.net>, "Stephen Dawson" <steve...@athene.co.uk> writes:
> No one has mention that MK has one of the highest return rates for burnt out
> equipment in the industry so much so that a certain stockist will not hold
> it.
I've always thought their light switches had the nicest "feel" to them -
quality comes at a price presumably. But as someone else has pointed out,
their latest "rounded" style looks, frankly, awful.
> I use Contactum, nice big terminals, not bad looking, and a sensible price.
If I'm not wrong, I've seen this name stamped on the back of Wickes' own
brand stuff. I'd echo the sentiment that Wickes' sockets can be *very*
stiff - as I have bought these in the multipacks of 5 at a time, there's
usually been a spare to cover for the odd "sticky" specimen though.
> Just my bit.
M3 2.
--
John Laird (jo...@yrl.co.uk) "I have discovered a truly elegant sig,
Yezerski Roper Ltd sadly there is no room here to show it."
http://www.yrl.co.uk
Mungo Henning
Gerry Duhig wrote:
>
> The lesson I have learned over the years is to avoid the cheap little
> 5Amp round connector blocks that Great Mills and the like sell for
> lighting. They look fine and are cheap, but when you try and use them
> you find that you cannot get enough wires into each terminal post.
I totally agree with Gerry on this point. I bought the same "cheapie"
connectors from Screwfix and had to snip a couple of millimetres off the
grub screw in order to cathc the socket by a couple of threads: good
enough for a day or so until I replaced them with "proper" connectors.
Had I not mutilated them, I would have returned them (anyone from
Screwfix
listening?).
Mungo
Paul K Bassindale
Chris
I've just recently rewired my house and used PEL Electrics in Leeds
for all the materials. The sockets were actually Contactum but they
do stock a larg'ish range and allow you to have a good look/play with
them before you decide. I think Contactum were thew second cheapest,
MK actually had what seemed a better quality switch but not enough
to justify the extra expense. If you need any more info feel free to
e-mail me, I have the catalogue at home with number, names, prices
etc.
Paul
p.s just not an employee but a happy customer
P.K.Bassindale
pb...@leva.leeds.ac.uk
Tim Dean
No one has mention that MK has one of the highest return rates for burnt out
equipment in the industry so much so that a certain stockist will not hold
it.
Where did you get this fact from????
I use Contactum, nice big terminals, not bad looking, and a sensible price.
Just my bit.
Steve Dawson
I like them too Good consumer units as well.
Tim Dean
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------Tim DEan Td...@argonet.com use tdean(at)argonet.co.uk
Acorn Co,puters reddwarf simpsons radio 1 X-files
----------------Acorn@heart-------------
Posted on www.dejanews.com
... I forgot my tagline file...
Andrew Henry
In article <ant08175...@chewy.aleph1.co.uk>,
Wookey <woo...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>In general I agree, and certainly getting stuff from your local trade place
>is likely to be much better value than the shed (although things vary
>significantly - check).
I was browsing in Homebase and thought I'd have a look at the
prices of their switches and sockets. I think someone had made a
typing error as the MK Logic single pole light switches were going
for 49p - instead of 3.49
--
Andrew Henry
ahe...@dircon.co.uk
Kevin Poole
In article: <357D2113...@itacs.strath.ac.uk> Mungo Henning
I doubt it. I've returned 5A junction boxes (one mutilated) to them for
exactly this reason (and because the grub screws were far too sloppy a
fit in the brass inserts, some of which were loose in the plastic
housing). I also suggested that they should monitor this newsgroup as
they are quite often mentioned, but they ignored this suggestion as
thoroughly as they ignore any emails you send them.
A lot of their ordinary woodscrews (as against twinthreads and
goldscrews) are crap, too. Short, shallow, threads, mainly. While I'm
Screwfix-bashing, I've found their masonry drills far poorer than Wilko
own-brand at half the price, their abrasive discs are dearer than
Machine Mart, and the minimum length of earth sleeving they sell is
100m, which I reckon should do for about 1000 sockets. They also use an
interesting piece of sophistry if you fax an order in the afternoon -
they take the time that they print it from their fax machine's memory,
not the time you send it, to decide whether it qualifies for their
vaunted "same day despatch".
I wonder if they're going the way of so many firms - getting so big that
they "go mainstream". Anyone else springing up to fill the gap?
--
-------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Poole
Clock Repairer Tel: 01332 872450
-------------------------------------------------------
Bart Maguire
>but they ignored this suggestion as
>thoroughly as they ignore any emails you send them.
Why do so many companies ignore your email? Why do so many companies
have crap web sites, full of corporate puff but no substance? I
sometimes think that they have a website and email address to
establish an internet presence but no idea what the internet is or how
to use it. Do they shout so loudly about having a fax machine, only
to ignore all faxes?
(I was going to change the subject but then I remembered that MK have
a crap web site and ignored my mail)
Bart
Smudge
Keith Mendum shook the scrabble bag and this fell out.....
>Helen & Chris wrote:
>>
>> You pay quite a price premium for MK sockets etc. compared to cheaper
>> 'no-name' products.
>>
>> Are there good technical, safety etc. reasons for choosing MK over
>> cheaper products?
>>
>is good news with youngsters around.
All socket-outlets which have been tested and found to comply with
BS 1363:1984 plus Amendments 1 to 6 or the current BS 1363:Part 2:1995
plus Amendment 1 have shutters which are little finger/pencil proof.
--
Smudge
Chris Holmes
<snip>
> All socket-outlets which have been tested and found to comply with
> BS 1363:1984 plus Amendments 1 to 6 or the current BS 1363:Part 2:1995
> plus Amendment 1 have shutters which are little finger/pencil proof.
While we're on the subject, would anyone bother to fit those socket
guards (plastic 13A plug) To keel little fingers out. I really can't
see that any kiddie below about 3 could defeat the shutters on modern
13A plugs, and any that could must be doing it very deliberately.
As a follow up to the recent thread on fridge "locks" I have recently
re-installed ours (Using Outdoor Sticky Fixers) & it's excellent.
Effective at keeping the kiddies out, but easy to operate one handed.
It came from Mothercare about 7 years ago (Don't know if they still have
the same design).
I am a little "off" Mothercare at the moment due to their appauling
attitude to supplying spare parts for their products (8 year old stair
gate).
They wouldn't even consider supplying spares unless the article was
unser 3 years old (Who needs spares for "New" goods?) only when I rang
another branch and lied about it's age was I grudgingly told theycould
get a new catch for it.
But I would have to go to the store to order it and then again to
collect it, no mail order.
Whose products won't I be buying again? (Fridge locks excepted)
You guessed it!
Active Digital Security
><snip>
>> All socket-outlets which have been tested and found to comply with
>> BS 1363:1984 plus Amendments 1 to 6 or the current BS 1363:Part 2:1995
>> plus Amendment 1 have shutters which are little finger/pencil proof.
>
>
>While we're on the subject, would anyone bother to fit those socket
>guards (plastic 13A plug) To keel little fingers out. I really can't
>see that any kiddie below about 3 could defeat the shutters on modern
>13A plugs, and any that could must be doing it very deliberately.
>
Errr. I for one would. You do realise that it only takes, say, a
pencil pushed into the earth terminal on *any* shuttered outlet,
barring the absolute latest designs, to open all terminals to
relatively easy reach of little fingers, and fingers of any size with
anything metallic in them.
And, with experience of three children, all of whom are, or have been
under three, for at least three years of their lives, I can say that
they will figure it out. Kids have a fascination with almost
*anything* they see their parents doing.
So, rather than adopt your view on the matter, forgive me if I stick
with mine, which being that I really cannot figure out why, at around
20 pence each, people with children cannot be bothered to fit them.
Regards,
Bill Boyd
Active Security Systems
"What Could you be Missing?"
Professional Electronic Security Installation and Service
Visit www.alarms.demon.co.uk today.....
Chris Holmes
Active Digital Security wrote:
<snip>
> So, rather than adopt your view on the matter, forgive me if I stick
> with mine, which being that I really cannot figure out why, at around
> 20 pence each, people with children cannot be bothered to fit them.
I didn't say I don't bother to fit them, just asked if others did.
I've got MK Logic in my place, and I think they take a little more
defeating than you describe.
Andy Wade
Active Digital Security wrote ...
> You do realise that it only takes, say, a
> pencil pushed into the earth terminal on *any* shuttered outlet,
> barring the absolute latest designs, to open all terminals to
> relatively easy reach of little fingers, and fingers of any size with
> anything metallic in them.
No, the shutters on MK 13A sockets (and maybe some others) have for many
years been operated by pressure from both L&N pins of the plug, not the
earth, and BS1363 pt2 requires that anything poked in thro' the earth
socket cannot reach live parts inside. The new MK 'plus' designs need
pressure from all 3 pins before the shutter will open.
--
Andy
Smudge
Andy Wade shook the scrabble bag and this fell out.....
<snip>
>BS1363 pt2 requires that anything poked in thro' the earth
>socket cannot reach live parts inside.
The requirements is actually that a 1mm diameter rigid steel rod shall
not touch live parts, whether insulated or not (yes, that does included
an isulated conductor). Commonly refered to as 'the bent paperclip
test'.
It is also present in the previous incarnation of BS1363.
--
Smudge
Smudge
Chris Holmes shook the scrabble bag and this fell out.....
><snip>
>> All socket-outlets which have been tested and found to comply with
>> BS 1363:1984 plus Amendments 1 to 6 or the current BS 1363:Part 2:1995
>> plus Amendment 1 have shutters which are little finger/pencil proof.
>
>While we're on the subject, would anyone bother to fit those socket
>guards (plastic 13A plug) To keel little fingers out. I really can't
>see that any kiddie below about 3 could defeat the shutters on modern
>13A plugs, and any that could must be doing it very deliberately.
Yes, for want of a couple of quid it is worth it. Kiddies are notorious
for managing to achieve 'the impossible'.
Whilst an openned shutter will not allow a finger to touch live parts, a
hand holding a conductive 'something' could.
--
Smudge
T1MDownie
In article <35854F...@sedgehill.lewisham.sch.uk>, Chris Holmes
<hol...@sedgehill.lewisham.sch.uk> writes:
><snip>
>> All socket-outlets which have been tested and found to comply with
>> BS 1363:1984 plus Amendments 1 to 6 or the current BS 1363:Part 2:1995
>> plus Amendment 1 have shutters which are little finger/pencil proof.
>
>
>While we're on the subject, would anyone bother to fit those socket
>guards (plastic 13A plug) To keel little fingers out.
No. They've always struck me as a complete waste of time. If a child does
want to defeat the internal shutter system, then they need something to poke in
the earth pin socket first and they're unlikely to do that "accidentally". If
they're capable of doing that then "socket guards" are unlikely to deter them.
I think they're designed to feed the paranoia of first time parents.
>I really can't see that any kiddie below about 3 could defeat the shutters on
>modern 13A plugs, and any that could must be doing it very deliberately.
Agreed.
TD
Wookey
In article <199806152028...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, T1MDownie
<URL:mailto:t1md...@aol.com> wrote:
> No. They've always struck me as a complete waste of time. If a child does
> want to defeat the internal shutter system, then they need something to poke in
> the earth pin socket first and they're unlikely to do that "accidentally". If
> they're capable of doing that then "socket guards" are unlikely to deter them.
And anyway, it's very unlikely to kill them, but it'll probably hurt, and
then they might learn something.