new colours in three-core SWA cable
Carl D
mm2 cores, with brown, black and grey insulation.
The label doesn't say which colour to use for what but it does
have an new/old conversion chart.
new old
brown red
grey yellow
black blue
I think brown is live, but I'm not sure what to do with the
others, because I've only used twin and earth until now.
Which one is what?
Bolted
Brown is live, grey (sleeved blue) is neutral, black (sleeved yellow
and green) is earth.
mick
It's 3-phase cable without a neutral.
brown = red = L1
grey = yellow = L2
black = blue = L3
If you are using it for a single phase+neutral supply then, strictly
speaking, it is the wrong stuff. It would be a pity to waste it, so I
would suggest that you use it as follows:
brown = live
black with blue sleeving = neutral
grey with green/yellow sleeving = earth
Note: you must sleeve the conductors at both ends.
You must also earth the armour (via a proper cable gland for wire armour,
but at 2.5mm2 I suspect that you have braided cable so cable entry is via
a stuffing gland and take the braiding to an earth terminal).
--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Web: http://www.nascom.info
Filtering everything posted from googlegroups to kill spam.
ARWadsworth
"mick" <not....@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:00c8e355$0$13252$c3e...@news.astraweb.com...
To be fair, Bolted was spot on with his reply.
Suggesting that grey is L2 and black is L3 is incorrect. It is the other way
around.
The OPs conversion chart that came with the wiring is also incorrect.
Adam
John Rumm
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Cable#Conductor_Colours_and_Harmonisation
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
mick
<snip>
>
> To be fair, Bolted was spot on with his reply.
>
?? Sorry - I can't see it on here.
> Suggesting that grey is L2 and black is L3 is incorrect. It is the other
> way around.
>
Correct - I was too quick & posted without thinking. :-(
> The OPs conversion chart that came with the wiring is also incorrect.
>
Now that's just plain naughty!
I don't know what Bolted posted, but (apart from my new phase colours
messup) I'll stick with what I said. Since the (insane) harmonised
colours appeared I've always liked bl(ack/ue) and gr(ey/een) for neutral
and earth! I'm not sure if there is actually a standard for using 3-phase
cable on 1ph+n+e - I doubt it - and sleeving is ok. :-)
Have you tried to get brown, black and grey indicator lights for
switchgear panels? Mad, I tell you! :-)
--
Mick (Working in a M$-free zone!)
Carl D
"sleeved" - electrical tape will do?
mick
The regs say that you should use "permanent" marking. That includes
sleeving and thread-through cable markers. If you use tape - which can
eventually fall off - then you should probably also use small tie-wraps
to give it better security.
Incidentally, I found the following to back up my choice of cable colours:
http://alturl.com/h2q5
Gents,
When installing the new coloured cables how should i ID the cores,using
a three core for a single phase supply the NICEIC advise that black
should be sleeved and used as earth green/yell and the grey as neutral
sleeved blue ,but when installing to the old coloured board do i sleeve
the neutral as blue or as black ? also on some jobs the grey is used as
the earth,and the black as the neutral I should'nt be confused but i am
---
There is no absolute convention concerning use of the new 3-core cable
colours for single phase circuits. Brown core for live is normal but
either black or grey could be sleeved green/yellow as earth. The
remaining core to be used as neutral should be sleeved blue. The IEE (now
IET) issued guidance on the labelling of a distribution board containing
old and new coloured cabling which is available as "Promotional flyer
describing changes" from www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/CableCol.cfm.
06-06-2007
PIU
js.b1
> My god - there's noting like stable standardisation is there.
> Do the reg say we must rise at 10:30 and chant "Prescott's my hero"
> three times? Madness.
Actually the colours were agreed a ?decade? ago.
Prescott didn't have a hand in them.
It has some interesting side-effects...
- Harmonised look wonderful (not) under low light or LP sodium light
- GY/BK/BR has Black typically Earth on 1ph, but Live on 3ph
- 3c+E smoke does have "standard colours" but not 3c-SWA
- Line being the new trendy word for Live
There are some other odd SWA options - for example 5c can be had with
all white cores or BR/BL/BK/GY & Gr/Ye. The latter is actually useful
for two switched LN feeds (Shed + Lights) with Gr/Ye forcing anyone
who comes along in the future to only screw up LN rather than Live
that which should be Earth.
Be glad, we still manage to keep...
- FTE with bare CPC - rather than French green insulated CPC
- Ring final circuits - rather than Radials (because we have fused
plugs)
- UK wiring accessories - imperfect, but better than most
A positive of Ring FC is dual CPC routes, a negative is unbalanced
ring & a broken rings means each leg is protected by 32A CPD (above
cable CCC).
The real problem across the board is legislation which specifies
nothing, permitting corporate marketing departments to write whatever
they want tied to their revenue targets under the guise of
"stakeholder society". Government is usurped completely by business,
business is not a democracy, all in order to create a chain of men in
brown overalls so men in blue suits & BMWs can push products which are
often utter crap. The new environmental linked BR will turn out to be
a complete joke with people avoiding CWI or Loft insulation to avoid
ridiculous "law of dimishing return" improvements on future
extensions. Again, as usual, from H&S to BR to Electrical the concept
of Cost Benefit Analysis goes out the window through second rate
politicians, civil servants and essentially "nationalise the demand"
corporations. Forget 1932 protectionism, we are generating a Centrally
Planned Protectionism which in the end will result in a cost-laden
economy that snaps. Legislation can reach a point where the original
aim is so lost that it collapses. Not MP Expenses but Corporate
writing Gov't policy will be the stink eventually. I even recall ?
Watchdog? years back where companies boasted how they were writing
government policy. Next going by agricultural land prices will be a
"rural agricultural economy", N% of product must be locally grown.
Goldman Sachs & TARP money created the recent oil run, next will be
the food run - all under the guise of environmental lobbying no doubt
by supermarkets who can inflate margins. The most profitable UK
companies are grocery warehouses with 2-3 national supply; says a lot
really.
At least the wind turbine micro-generation macro-revenue nonsense died.
Adam Funk
> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:32:02 +0000, Carl D wrote:
>
>> I bought some SWA cable to use in the garden. It has three 2.5 mm2
>> cores, with brown, black and grey insulation.
...
> It's 3-phase cable without a neutral.
>
> brown = red = L1
> grey = yellow = L2
> black = blue = L3
>
> If you are using it for a single phase+neutral supply then, strictly
> speaking, it is the wrong stuff.
That's the only kind I've seen for sale in DIY shops. (I imagine
electrical specialists could supply something with a different colour
scheme.) Some years ago when I was thinking about getting some to use
in the garden, I noticed they were only selling the same thing, but in
red, yellow, and blue. (I remember because I thought it was strange
then.)
Isn't three-core-and-earth cable (the kind you'd use for connecting
two switches to one light) sold with three-phase colours too?
Owain
> Have you tried to get brown, black and grey indicator lights for
> switchgear panels?
Hadn't actually considered that. What do you use? I suppose for black
you'd have to use some sort of non-emittive indicator like an dolls-
eye.
Owain
Owain
> Isn't three-core-and-earth cable (the kind you'd use for connecting
> two switches to one light) sold with three-phase colours too?
If so that would be correct in the usual wiring configuration, as all
three wires are some version of live or switched live, so should all
be in phase colours.
Using phase colours as neutrals is bad, using any colour other than g/
y for earth (even if sleeved) is very bad IMHO.
Owain
mick
<snip>
>
> That's the only kind I've seen for sale in DIY shops. (I imagine
> electrical specialists could supply something with a different colour
> scheme.) Some years ago when I was thinking about getting some to use
> in the garden, I noticed they were only selling the same thing, but in
> red, yellow, and blue. (I remember because I thought it was strange
> then.)
>
> Isn't three-core-and-earth cable (the kind you'd use for connecting two
> switches to one light) sold with three-phase colours too?
Yep - you're right. For single phase supplies it's assumed that you will
use 2-core cable (brown+blue) and use the armour as the protective earth
conductor.
3-core cable will be brown+black+grey and is used for 3-phase supplies
(usually motors or transformers where neutral isn't required). Once
again, the armour is earth.
4-core cable has brown+black+grey+blue cores for 3-phase & neutral
supplies.
5-core cable has brown+black+grey+blue+green/yellow cores. Used like 4-
core but with a separate earth conductor.
You can also get similar cables with all white cores numbered from 1
upwards every so often.
You're also right about the lighting cable. I remember seeing it in r.y.b
+e, but I haven't come across a harmonised colours version - I assume it
exists, but most people seen to use 2 runs of twin+earth. It's probably
cheaper and easier to get.
John Rumm
> You're also right about the lighting cable. I remember seeing it in r.y.b
> +e, but I haven't come across a harmonised colours version - I assume it
> exists, but most people seen to use 2 runs of twin+earth. It's probably
> cheaper and easier to get.
Its easy enough to get, and comes in the harmonised colours now.
Adam Funk
> On 11 Aug, 21:34, Adam Funk wrote:
>> Isn't three-core-and-earth cable (the kind you'd use for connecting
>> two switches to one light) sold with three-phase colours too?
>
> If so that would be correct in the usual wiring configuration, as all
> three wires are some version of live or switched live, so should all
> be in phase colours.
I had to think about that for a bit. If it's a "loop-in" circuit,
where L, N, & E go from the supply to the ceiling fixture, and then
you connect live and two switched lives (and earth, of course) between
the switches, that's true.
But if you take L, N, & E to one switch first, then run
three-core-and-earth to the second switch, then switched live, N, & E
to the light, then the cable between the switches is carrying two
switched lives, one neutral, and one earth.
The second kind is the only one I've done, but I guess it's probably
not as common.
> Using phase colours as neutrals is bad, using any colour other than g/
> y for earth (even if sleeved) is very bad IMHO.
I agree that it's better not to re-sleeve, but sometimes you have to
work with the available materials.
Carl D
>
> It's 3-phase cable without a neutral.
>
> brown = red = L1
> grey = yellow = L2
> black = blue = L3
>
> If you are using it for a single phase+neutral supply then, strictly
> speaking, it is the wrong stuff. It would be a pity to waste it, so I
> would suggest that you use it as follows:
>
> brown = live
> black with blue sleeving = neutral
> grey with green/yellow sleeving = earth
>
> Note: you must sleeve the conductors at both ends.
>
> You must also earth the armour (via a proper cable gland for wire armour,
> but at 2.5mm2 I suspect that you have braided cable so cable entry is via
> a stuffing gland and take the braiding to an earth terminal).
It's wire armour, and Wickes sells the glands
for that, on the shelf over the cable.
Thanks.
Carl D
> On Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:28:26 +0000, Carl D wrote:
>
> > Bolted wrote:
> >> Brown is live, grey (sleeved blue) is neutral, black (sleeved yellow
> >> and green) is earth.
> >
> > "sleeved" - electrical tape will do?
>
>
> The regs say that you should use "permanent" marking. That includes
> sleeving and thread-through cable markers. If you use tape - which can
> eventually fall off - then you should probably also use small tie-wraps
> to give it better security.
I saw some "heatshrink sleeving" in assorted colours in B&Q, but
no instructions on the outside of the pack. Does anyone know how
much heat you need? A hair-dryer?
(Not a blowtorch!)
Tim S
> I saw some "heatshrink sleeving" in assorted colours in B&Q, but
> no instructions on the outside of the pack. Does anyone know how
> much heat you need? A hair-dryer?
>
> (Not a blowtorch!)
More like a hot air gun (paint stripper type) - this is commonly used.
You can use a fag lighter flame, played carefully along too.
Cheers
Tim
Andrew Gabriel
Carl D <5fa3...@example.com> writes:
>
> I saw some "heatshrink sleeving" in assorted colours in B&Q, but
> no instructions on the outside of the pack. Does anyone know how
> much heat you need? A hair-dryer?
Tiny hot air guns are used in the lab. Hair dryer is not hot enough.
Blowtorch is often used outdoors, but you don't put the flame on
the sleeving -- you wave it some distance away so temperature is
well below that of the flame. I sometimes do it over a gas hob
(again, some distance above the flame). Can also use the hot side
of a soldering iron, but that's fiddly to get full shrinkage.
> (Not a blowtorch!)
--
Andrew Gabriel
Consultant Software Engineer
Carl D
I don't have a hot air gun, but I can find a lighter or
some matches, I'm sure. Thanks.
John Rumm
Even a small blowtorch played very quickly over the area will work fine,
without leaving it all sooty either.
Tim S
Not matches - too sooty.
Gas fag lighter works quite well, but you need to play the flame. But there
is quite a wide tolerance between the shrinking and burning so you don't
need to be *too* careful.
whisky-dave
"Carl D" <5fa3...@example.com> wrote in message
news:b76411a24a8e345d...@msgid.frell.theremailer.net...
>
> I saw some "heatshrink sleeving" in assorted colours in B&Q, but
> no instructions on the outside of the pack. Does anyone know how
> much heat you need? A hair-dryer?
You can get heatshrink in at least two temperatures for shrinking.
I have used a hair-dryer, but I had to cup my hand over the air intake
to warm it up a bit, not too dangerous short term unless the mrs finds out
and hits you with it. Usually I use a soldering iron that's been removed
from
it's supply so the heat isn't at full heat ~300C as the shrink temperature
is about 80C
to 110C I think, and will probably shrink to half it's diameter.
If it's too hot the sleeving may melt or split.
A lighter or match can be OK with care as mentioned, some heatshrink is
non-flammable
Carl D
Nice one, thanks. I'll be careful but not worry.
Gov. Lancelyn
Fredxx
As long as the neutral and earth conductors are marked with green/yellow
and blue sleeving at each end consistently then the cable colours
don't matter.
Dave Plowman (News)
> Any idiot could have thought that up (though no sane person could!)
everyone that matters will have got used to the new colours by now.
--
*My designated driver drove me to drink
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Andrew
> In article <88014799-aa15-4cfd...@googlegroups.com>,
> Gov. Lancelyn <gov.la...@poultonlancelyn.wirral.sch.uk> wrote:
>> Any idiot could have thought that up (though no sane person could!)
>
> Takes a real idiot to reply to a 10+ year old post. Especially since
> everyone that matters will have got used to the new colours by now.
>
website
https://www.schoolhosting.co.uk/school_domain_names/
Obviously full of very intelligent people (not)
Brian Gaff (Sofa)
the wires marked in a tactile way of course.
Brian
--
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Gov. Lancelyn" <gov.la...@poultonlancelyn.wirral.sch.uk> wrote in
message news:88014799-aa15-4cfd...@googlegroups.com...
Chris Green
> OK as I eluded to, its discrimination against blind electricians to not have
> the wires marked in a tactile way of course.
--
Chris Green
·
soup
> OK as I eluded to, its discrimination against blind electricians to not have
> the wires marked in a tactile way of course.
> Brian
>
When I was doing demolitions in the army, detonating cord was white
for live and a blue for training/dummy. However as a lot of army stuff
is done at night, or in poor light, the cord was marked with projecting
lengthwise ridges in training/dummy and smooth if live.
So you could tell if you were dealing with stuff that could go BOOM or
stuff that was just plastic cord, by feel alone.
Andrew
Vir Campestris
> And in times of conflict, would invariably be used in the dark !
One of the things was a few turns around a concrete post which
disintegrated quite satisfactorily. It does have other uses than just
setting things off.
Andy