OT ish.

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Tim Lamb

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May 26, 2022, 8:07:39 AMMay 26
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VW have volunteered a payment to owner claimants.

Report in the Times claimed that 400 times more NOx was released using
the cheat system than permitted.

Is this likely or some hack misinterpreting figures?
--
Tim Lamb

Dave Plowman (News)

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May 26, 2022, 10:40:00 AMMay 26
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In article <GnsKpkN8...@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk>,
The thing that gets me is London has many many thousands of these diesels
with Bosch injection which fiddles the emissions. Yet are exempt from ULEZ
charges.

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Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

SteveW

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May 26, 2022, 11:19:53 AMMay 26
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On 26/05/2022 15:35, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <GnsKpkN8...@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk>,
> Tim Lamb <t...@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> VW have volunteered a payment to owner claimants.
>
>> Report in the Times claimed that 400 times more NOx was released using
>> the cheat system than permitted.
>
>> Is this likely or some hack misinterpreting figures?
>
> The thing that gets me is London has many many thousands of these diesels
> with Bosch injection which fiddles the emissions. Yet are exempt from ULEZ
> charges.

I also can't see what detriment the owners are claiming for, unless a
recall to correct has reduced performance or increased fuel consumption
significantly. The authorities have not re-graded these vehicles, so
there is no higher VED to pay, no additional Congestion Zone/ULEZ
charges and no reason for the resale value to have fallen.

Colin Bignell

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May 26, 2022, 12:15:49 PMMay 26
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I had an ambulance chaser type company trying to get me to claim against
Mercedes, on the basis that the product had been mis-sold.

--
Colin Bignell

Tim Lamb

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May 26, 2022, 1:21:27 PMMay 26
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In message <t6o5qk$e20$1...@dont-email.me>, SteveW
<st...@walker-family.me.uk> writes
Kindly don't tell anyone but it is still fitted to my Passat:-)

I've been avoiding main dealer servicing.

--
Tim Lamb

Tim Lamb

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May 26, 2022, 1:21:27 PMMay 26
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In message <59eeadb...@davenoise.co.uk>, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes
>In article <GnsKpkN8...@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk>,
> Tim Lamb <t...@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> VW have volunteered a payment to owner claimants.
>
>> Report in the Times claimed that 400 times more NOx was released using
>> the cheat system than permitted.
>
>> Is this likely or some hack misinterpreting figures?
>
>The thing that gets me is London has many many thousands of these diesels
>with Bosch injection which fiddles the emissions. Yet are exempt from ULEZ
>charges.

Huh! I'm still arguing with London Transport (Darlington) that
mistakenly paying £15.00 to drive in North London (ULEZ) should mean
they owe me £2.50 rather than me owing them an £80.00 fine!


>

--
Tim Lamb

Robin

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May 26, 2022, 1:43:07 PMMay 26
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OTOH as a London council tax payer I think it's quite neat they have, in
effect, a fixed penalty for "Paying Without Due Care and Attention" ;)

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Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Andrew

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May 26, 2022, 1:47:22 PMMay 26
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On 26/05/2022 16:19, SteveW wrote:
But how many people have had their health affected by VW's
cheating ?. These are the *only* people who should get compo,
not the whinging vehicle owner.

Joey

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May 26, 2022, 3:59:50 PMMay 26
to
On Fri, 27 May 2022 01:19:48 +1000, SteveW <st...@walker-family.me.uk>
wrote:

> On 26/05/2022 15:35, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> In article <GnsKpkN8...@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk>,
>> Tim Lamb <t...@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> VW have volunteered a payment to owner claimants.
>>
>>> Report in the Times claimed that 400 times more NOx was released using
>>> the cheat system than permitted.
>>
>>> Is this likely or some hack misinterpreting figures?
>> The thing that gets me is London has many many thousands of these
>> diesels
>> with Bosch injection which fiddles the emissions. Yet are exempt from
>> ULEZ
>> charges.
>
> I also can't see what detriment the owners are claiming for, unless a
> recall to correct has reduced performance or increased fuel consumption
> significantly.

Of course it has.

> The authorities have not re-graded these vehicles, so there is no higher
> VED to pay, no additional Congestion Zone/ULEZ charges and no reason for
> the resale value to have fallen.

Of course the resale value has fallen.

Peeler

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May 26, 2022, 4:19:34 PMMay 26
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On Fri, 27 May 2022 05:59:42 +1000, Joey, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

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Richard

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May 27, 2022, 1:24:51 AMMay 27
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What about compensation for putting up with whinging people who want
compensation for everything?
There are 8 billion people on the planet despite all the things we're
doing which are deemed detrimental to our survival.

The Natural Philosopher

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May 27, 2022, 6:00:28 AMMay 27
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On 26/05/2022 13:07, Tim Lamb wrote:
> VW have volunteered a payment to owner claimants.
>
> Report in the Times claimed that 400 times more NOx was released using
> the cheat system than permitted.
>
probably true.

> Is this likely or some hack misinterpreting figures?


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about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
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a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalin’s Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.”

Vaclav Klaus

Tim Lamb

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May 27, 2022, 9:03:53 AMMay 27
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In message <t6q7fo$cln$2...@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
<t...@invalid.invalid> writes
>On 26/05/2022 13:07, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> VW have volunteered a payment to owner claimants.
>> Report in the Times claimed that 400 times more NOx was released
>>using the cheat system than permitted.
>>
>probably true.

I thought the system only altered the injected fuel quantity.

Seems a lot. Does this mean the only diesels meeting the emission level
use ad blue?
>
>> Is this likely or some hack misinterpreting figures?
>
>

--
Tim Lamb

The Natural Philosopher

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May 27, 2022, 12:07:25 PMMay 27
to
On 27/05/2022 13:59, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <t6q7fo$cln$2...@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> <t...@invalid.invalid> writes
>> On 26/05/2022 13:07, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>> VW have volunteered a payment to owner claimants.
>>>  Report in the Times claimed that 400 times more NOx was released
>>> using  the cheat system than permitted.
>>>
>> probably true.
>
> I thought the system only altered the injected fuel quantity.

1. NOX is not a function of fuel quantity alone.

2. Ignition (injection) timing also plays a part.

3. Best fuel economy is from a weak and advanced ignition. Ideal for
producing NOx.

4. At the other end of the scale overfuelling produces particulates.

>
> Seems a lot. Does this mean the only diesels meeting the emission level
> use ad blue?

I think not. But that is likely to allow a weaker more advanced
mixture/ignition with increased raw NOX.



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true: it is true because it is powerful."

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Tim Lamb

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May 27, 2022, 12:56:40 PMMay 27
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In message <t6qsvo$8km$1...@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
<t...@invalid.invalid> writes
>On 27/05/2022 13:59, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> In message <t6q7fo$cln$2...@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>><t...@invalid.invalid> writes
>>> On 26/05/2022 13:07, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>>> VW have volunteered a payment to owner claimants.
>>>>  Report in the Times claimed that 400 times more NOx was released
>>>>using  the cheat system than permitted.
>>>>
>>> probably true.
>> I thought the system only altered the injected fuel quantity.
>
>1. NOX is not a function of fuel quantity alone.
>
>2. Ignition (injection) timing also plays a part.
>
>3. Best fuel economy is from a weak and advanced ignition. Ideal for
>producing NOx.
>
>4. At the other end of the scale overfuelling produces particulates.
>
>> Seems a lot. Does this mean the only diesels meeting the emission
>>level use ad blue?
>
>I think not. But that is likely to allow a weaker more advanced
>mixture/ignition with increased raw NOX.

Ok. Thanks.

I don't do much urban driving so I'll hang on to the *cheat* system as
long as I can. For a 1600cc engine in a biggish vehicle the
performance/fuel consumption is excellent.

--
Tim Lamb

ajh

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May 27, 2022, 2:15:59 PMMay 27
to
On 27/05/2022 13:59, Tim Lamb wrote:

>
> I thought the system only altered the injected fuel quantity.
>
> Seems a lot. Does this mean the only diesels meeting the emission level
> use ad blue?

I don't know exactly what they did but generally you need heat, pressure
and air to create NOx. At low injection levels because the diesel takes
in much more air than the fuel needs to burn the temperatures are low
so not much NOx forms. At full power the temperature goes up as does the
pressure but there is far less excess air as the fuel uses most of it
up, so not much NOx forms. The problem occurs when there is just enough
fuel injected to raise the temperature and pressure to sufficient levels
but there is plenty of excess air present so NOx becomes a problem.

So yes the only control available is how and when you inject fuel.

On a test you can probably avoid this high NOx part of the operating
cycle but the power curve would make normal driving difficult.

Adblue is injected into the exhaust to react the NOx back to Nitrogen
and steam in a catalytic converter so its use is linked to this part of
the fuel-rpm map.

What I cannot understand is why modern diesels with particulate filters
and adblue are still being vilified when their levels of pollutants are
an order of magnitude lower than a 2010 diesel without those, I still
drive a non DPF non Adblue diesel from that era, though only did 1500
miles per year for the past three years.

Rod Speed

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May 27, 2022, 2:53:51 PMMay 27
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Because that is still much worse than a petrol engined car.

> I still drive a non DPF non Adblue diesel from that era, though only did
> 1500 miles per year for the past three years.

But plenty of others travel much further.

Peeler

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May 27, 2022, 3:56:10 PMMay 27
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On Sat, 28 May 2022 04:53:44 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

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