Bang goes Zog energy.

[Andrew]

Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains
sometimes turn out not to be so ...

Andrew

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

haha

[Sysadmin]

I had made several calls to E.ON_Next and only today have I received any
sensible information. Got an account number, a new lower than expected
tariff and have been able to set up a direct debit...apparently they are
still waiting for all the info from Symbio. I was concerned about getting
a big bill in January, but E.ON had received my overpayment from them and
that should cover a couple of months..

[newshound]

On 01/12/2021 12:05, Andrew wrote:

Not at all. They got (and are still getting) a bargain by paying below
cost for their electricity. It's the rest of us users who pick up the
tab. (Taxpayers in the case of Bulb).

[RJH]

OOI, what's your tariff?
--
Cheers, Rob

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <so7s7f$dqh$1...@dont-email.me>,

So you both enjoyed paying over the odds for gas and electricity, then?

That doesn't quite fit in with your love of free food parcels, Jim.

--
*I don't suffer from insanity -- I'm a carrier

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[John Rumm]

On 01/12/2021 12:05, Andrew wrote:

> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains
> sometimes turn out not to be so ...

So customers jump ship from the big boys and get a better quality of
customer service and lower prices for however many years. Now they get
shifted to a different supplier, taking any credit/debit balance with them.

So where is the downside again?


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Pancho]

Thank you taxpayers, We, Bulb customers, appreciate it :-).

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <AK-dnax9zogZ6jr8...@brightview.co.uk>,

Can you clarfiy? For the many years since I left BG etc, I've been getting
energy at below cost? How did these firms survive for so long - making a
loss on every sale?

--
*Remember: First you pillage, then you burn.

[newshound]

On 01/12/2021 15:19, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <AK-dnax9zogZ6jr8...@brightview.co.uk>,
> newshound <news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:
>> On 01/12/2021 12:05, Andrew wrote:
>>> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains
>>> sometimes turn out not to be so ...
>>>
>>> Andrew
>
>> Not at all. They got (and are still getting) a bargain by paying below
>> cost for their electricity. It's the rest of us users who pick up the
>> tab. (Taxpayers in the case of Bulb).
>
> Can you clarfiy? For the many years since I left BG etc, I've been getting
> energy at below cost? How did these firms survive for so long - making a
> loss on every sale?
>

Not for years, just recently with the price hike. If I understand
correctly, it will still be capped at the tariff until April. The gas
price is predicted to start falling by then, but THE REASON THE
COMPANIES WENT BROKE IS THAT THEY WERE PAYING OUT MORE THAN THEY WERE
GETTING IN. And now the SOLRs have to take the hit.

[Unknown]

newshound submitted this idea :

> If I understand correctly, it will still be capped at the tariff until
> April. The gas price is predicted to start falling by then, but THE REASON
> THE COMPANIES WENT BROKE IS THAT THEY WERE PAYING OUT MORE THAN THEY WERE
> GETTING IN.

Gas prices have fallen over the past month. Everyone, major supplier or
tiny supply company on a fixed contract taken out before the costs shot
up, will have been getting their energy on the cheap, so it's unfair to
blame it on those who sought a cut price supplier. The cut price
suppliers simply had less meat on their bones, to absorb the wholesale
price hikes.

[Andrew]

But in the normal scheme of things related to failed companies
there is no money left to pay creditors who typically get little
or nothing.

QED E.on is definately *not* getting your credit from the failed
supplier, it is getting notification of the amount, which Ofgem
are 'paying', except at the end of the day *your* losses are
being shared out amongst all energy users, 15 million of which
have never switched.

[Andrew]

Nope. They went up yesterday according to the commodities page on
BBC text.

ALL of those fixed price deals should have had a get-out clause
for the energy supplier, just like the telecom companies, who can offer
24 month 'deals' that still go up by X%+cpi every april. These
clauses could and should have been activated this year when
global energy prices shot up.

[Andrew]

On 01/12/2021 14:20, John Rumm wrote:
> On 01/12/2021 12:05, Andrew wrote:
>
>> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains
>> sometimes turn out not to be so ...
>
> So customers jump ship from the big boys and get a better quality of
> customer service and lower prices for however many years. Now they get
> shifted to a different supplier, taking any credit/debit balance with them.
>
> So where is the downside again?
>
>

The downside is that these failed companies are allowing their
losses (the customers 'credit') to be guaranteed by OFGEM even
if there is no money left in the bank of the failed company.
OFGEM will simply allow the cap to go up by more than necessary
to 'compensate' all the rescuing energy companies.

This means they could make some profit when it was possible but
not have to suffer any losses at all. All they did was cease
operations.

I don't think there is an equivalent of the landlords deposit
protection scheme for energy users credit balances, is there ?

[alan_m]

On 01/12/2021 12:05, Andrew wrote:

> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains
> sometimes turn out not to be so ...

Being a cheapskate I've lost nothing and have the satisfaction that over
the last decade or so I've not been overpaying for my energy.

If over the same period the big players have been buying future gas at
cheaper prices why have their customers been paying more?


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

[Robin]

On 01/12/2021 15:59, newshound wrote:
> On 01/12/2021 15:19, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> In article <AK-dnax9zogZ6jr8...@brightview.co.uk>,
>>     newshound <news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:
>>> On 01/12/2021 12:05, Andrew wrote:
>>>> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains
>>>> sometimes turn out not to be so ...
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>
>>> Not at all. They got (and are still getting) a bargain by paying below
>>> cost for their electricity. It's the rest of us users who pick up the
>>> tab. (Taxpayers in the case of Bulb).
>>
>> Can you clarfiy? For the many years since I left BG etc, I've been
>> getting
>> energy at below cost? How did these firms survive for so long - making a
>> loss on every sale?
>>
> Not for years, just recently with the price hike.

Bulb reported multi-million pre-tax losses for 2018 2019 and 2020
totalling c£m200. Like many "disruptors" it was following the Amazon
model of buying market share. The way the energy market is regulated
their customers won, their managers won, their investors lost (but many
will get tax relief to cushion the blow), and other customers/taxpayers
lost (with no cushion).


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

[Robin]

There is not. Ofgem even let them carry on trading after they've failed
to pay their levies. Making it easier to enter the market was a "good
thing" but it's way beyond time Ofgem demanded reserves/bonds.

[Steve Walker]

Except that many of the gas and electricity suppliers also fix their
buying price way ahead, so it has not gone up for those that did.

[alan_m]

15 million customers made the choice not to save money. Was this wise or
just stupid?

If it wasn't for the guarantee that customers credit is protected, even
yours if you supplier fails, then no-one in their right mind would allow
any credit to be built up. This would possibly mean that ALL suppliers
would only be able to charge the amount on the monthly usage bill.
Perhaps these failures will result in a fundamental change in the way
payments will be made.

You also make the assumption that the customers of the suppliers that
have gone bust haven't been paying the guarantee levy in all the years
these companies were trading.

How do you feel about the £85k guarantee for domestic customers if a UK
regulated financial institution fails?

[Theo]

Andrew <Andrew9...@mybtinternet.com> wrote:
> But in the normal scheme of things related to failed companies
> there is no money left to pay creditors who typically get little
> or nothing.

In the normal scheme of things businesses who hold client money are required
to hold it in separate accounts. So your firm of solicitors might go bust,
but your house deposit is separate from their working cash fund. The
administrators have to untangle things, which takes some time, but the money
is safe. Similar may apply here.

Theo

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 01/12/2021 17:00, alan_m wrote:
> On 01/12/2021 12:05, Andrew wrote:
>> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains
>> sometimes turn out not to be so ...
>
> Being a cheapskate I've lost nothing and have the satisfaction that over
> the last decade or so I've not been overpaying for my energy.
>
> If over the same period the big players have been buying future gas at
> cheaper prices why have their customers been paying more?
>

They haven't been buying future gas at cheaper prices. They have been
buying future gas at higher but guaranteed prices. Or hedging with
derivatives which amounts to paying an insurance premium against price
rises.

What *should* have happened is that you got stuck paying market prices
and your bills trebled. Ofgem prevented that, so the cost has fallen on
non cheapskate customers and the tax payer.


>


--
“It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established
authorities are wrong.”

― Voltaire, The Age of Louis XIV

[The Natural Philosopher]

I hope not. people who are essentially taking commercial risks need to
be exposed to the risk downsides as well as the upsides. It would have
been better if nearly all the high street banks had collapsed...


> Theo
>


--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

[Andrew]

Which works both ways and is not the simple task that you seem
to think it is. For most of the minnow energy companies, the costs
of hedging would have wiped out their profits.

Meanwhile OFGEM has made it clear who is actually going to pay
for all these cheapskates -

"Energy companies will be repaid the cost of taking on the customers of
bankrupt suppliers sooner than expected, adding further upward pressure
to household bills from April.

Bloomberg has the details:

Paying for the cost of absorbing millions of customers without being
reimbursed for as long as 18 months was one of the key gripes of energy
suppliers still left in the market.

Regulator Ofgem has brought forward the date suppliers can start to
recover these claims via bills to April, but that means higher costs for
consumers already facing a hike in the nation’s price cap."

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

On 01/12/2021 14:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <so7s7f$dqh$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Jim GM4DHJ ... <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> On 01/12/2021 12:05, Andrew wrote:
>>> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains
>>> sometimes turn out not to be so ...
>>>
>>> Andrew
>> haha
>
> So you both enjoyed paying over the odds for gas and electricity, then?
>
> That doesn't quite fit in with your love of free food parcels, Jim.
>

YES...WE HATE CHEAPSKATE PARASITES ....I took the food parcels because
we couldn't risk going to the shops.....

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

On 01/12/2021 16:36, Andrew wrote:

bastard

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

On 01/12/2021 13:24, newshound wrote:

bastard

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

bastard

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

On 01/12/2021 16:27, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

yes cheapskate bastards

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

On 01/12/2021 14:20, John Rumm wrote:

> On 01/12/2021 12:05, Andrew wrote:
>
>> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains
>> sometimes turn out not to be so ...
>
> So customers jump ship from the big boys and get a better quality of
> customer service and lower prices for however many years. Now they get
> shifted to a different supplier, taking any credit/debit balance with them.
>
> So where is the downside again?
>
>

just parasites

[alan_m]

All the major supermarkets would have delivered the food you paid for!

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

OK then to be honest it was the first feebee I ever had and I enjoyed
it...tee hee

[alan_m]

On 01/12/2021 17:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 01/12/2021 17:00, alan_m wrote:
>> On 01/12/2021 12:05, Andrew wrote:
>>> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains
>>> sometimes turn out not to be so ...
>>
>> Being a cheapskate I've lost nothing and have the satisfaction that
>> over the last decade or so I've not been overpaying for my energy.
>>
>> If over the same period the big players have been buying future gas at
>> cheaper prices why have their customers been paying more?
>>
> They haven't been buying future gas at cheaper prices. They have been
> buying future gas at higher but guaranteed prices. Or hedging with
> derivatives which amounts to paying an insurance premium against price
> rises.
>
> What *should* have happened is that you got stuck paying market prices
> and your bills trebled. Ofgem prevented that, so the cost has fallen on
> non cheapskate customers and the tax payer.
>

Bills wouldn't have trebled. The wholesale price of the energy doesn't
make 100% of the bill. Before the wholesale cost increases it was around
35% of a dual fuel bill. Green stealth taxes make up 25% of the
electricity bill.

[charles]

In article <j0pq9q...@mid.individual.net>,

Round here, it was impossible to get a delivery slot even with all
thenmajor firms in the area. . Jim lives somewhere only one firm might
deliver.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Brian]

Jim GM4DHJ ... <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On 01/12/2021 14:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> In article <so7s7f$dqh$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Jim GM4DHJ ... <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>> On 01/12/2021 12:05, Andrew wrote:
>>>> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains
>>>> sometimes turn out not to be so ...
>>>>
>>>> Andrew
>>> haha
>>
>> So you both enjoyed paying over the odds for gas and electricity, then?
>>
>> That doesn't quite fit in with your love of free food parcels, Jim.
>>
> YES...WE HATE CHEAPSKATE PARASITES ....I took the food parcels because
> we couldn't risk going to the shops.....
>

You could have ordered from shops who delivered and paid.

Or there were plenty of volunteers who took shopping lists for people and
delivered it to them.

[Brian]

Jim is a freeloader.

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

totly

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

On 01/12/2021 19:39, Brian wrote:

fuck charity

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

On 01/12/2021 17:39, alan_m wrote:

paid for?...how does that work ? ...

[Brian]

No shortage of volunteers who would do shopping and deliver.

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

but not you then ? ...

[Rod Speed]

Robin <r...@outlook.com> wrote
> newshound wrote
>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote
>>> newshound <news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote

>>>> Andrew wrote

>>>>> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains sometimes
>>>>> turn out not to be so ...

>>>> Not at all. They got (and are still getting) a bargain by paying below
>>>> cost for their electricity. It's the rest of us users who pick up the
>>>> tab. (Taxpayers in the case of Bulb).

>>> Can you clarfiy? For the many years since I left BG etc, I've been
>>> getting
>>> energy at below cost? How did these firms survive for so long - making a
>>> loss on every sale?

>> Not for years, just recently with the price hike.

> Bulb reported multi-million pre-tax losses for 2018 2019 and 2020
> totalling c£m200. Like many "disruptors" it was following the Amazon
> model of buying market share.

Amazon didn’t buy market share, it just took a long time to
convince enough customers that buying stuff that way was viable.

ALL startups take a while to become profitable.

> The way the energy market is regulated their customers won, their managers
> won, their investors lost (but many will get tax relief to cushion the
> blow), and other customers/taxpayers lost (with no cushion).

And only the most stupid regulators end up subsidising them.

They shouldn’t have been allowed to offer fixed price contracts.

[Rod Speed]

Robin <r...@outlook.com> wrote
> Andrew wrote
>> John Rumm wrote

>>> Andrew wrote

>>>> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains sometimes
>>>> turn out not to be so ...

>>> So customers jump ship from the big boys and get a better quality of
>>> customer service and lower prices for however many years. Now they get
>>> shifted to a different supplier, taking any credit/debit balance with
>>> them.

>>> So where is the downside again?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The downside is that these failed companies are allowing their
>> losses (the customers 'credit') to be guaranteed by OFGEM even
>> if there is no money left in the bank of the failed company.
>> OFGEM will simply allow the cap to go up by more than necessary
>> to 'compensate' all the rescuing energy companies.
>>
>> This means they could make some profit when it was possible but
>> not have to suffer any losses at all. All they did was cease
>> operations.
>>
>> I don't think there is an equivalent of the landlords deposit
>> protection scheme for energy users credit balances, is there ?
>
> There is not. Ofgem even let them carry on trading after they've failed
> to pay their levies. Making it easier to enter the market was a "good
> thing" but it's way beyond time Ofgem demanded reserves/bonds.

Its way past time they should be allowed to offer fixed price contracts
and have the industry forced to take on the customers of failed operations.

[John Brown]

The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote

> Theo wrote
>> Andrew <Andrew9...@mybtinternet.com> wrote

>>> But in the normal scheme of things related to failed companies
>>> there is no money left to pay creditors who typically get little
>>> or nothing.
>>
>> In the normal scheme of things businesses who hold client money are
>> required
>> to hold it in separate accounts. So your firm of solicitors might go
>> bust,
>> but your house deposit is separate from their working cash fund. The
>> administrators have to untangle things, which takes some time, but the
>> money
>> is safe. Similar may apply here.
>>
> I hope not. people who are essentially taking commercial risks need to be
> exposed to the risk downsides as well as the upsides. It would have been
> better if nearly all the high street banks had collapsed...

Nope, that would have produced another great depression or worse.

[Rod Speed]

Jim GM4DHJ ... <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote

> alan_m wrote
>> Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote
>>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote

>>>> Jim GM4DHJ ... <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote

>>>>> Andrew wrote

>>>>>> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains
>>>>>> sometimes turn out not to be so ...
>>>>>>

>>>>> haha
>>>>
>>>> So you both enjoyed paying over the odds for gas and electricity, then?
>>>>
>>>> That doesn't quite fit in with your love of free food parcels, Jim.
>>>>
>>> YES...WE HATE CHEAPSKATE PARASITES ....I took the food parcels because
>>> we couldn't risk going to the shops.....

>> All the major supermarkets would have delivered the food you paid for!

> OK then to be honest it was the first feebee I ever had

Nope, you got far more when going to school.

And with the liver transplant in spades.

[Peeler]

On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 07:50:15 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
The Natural Philosopher about senile Rodent:
"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole."
Message-ID: <pu07vj$s5$2...@dont-email.me>

[Peeler]

On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 07:42:59 +1100, John Brown, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

"Who or What is Rod Speed?
Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

[Peeler]

"Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."

https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

--
Bill Wright addressing senile Ozzie cretin Rodent Speed:
"Well you make up a lot of stuff and it's total bollocks most of it."
MID: <pj2b07$1rvs$2...@gioia.aioe.org>

[Peeler]

On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 07:37:24 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That’s because so much piss and shite emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a Wanker."
Message-ID: <gm2h57...@mid.individual.net>

[Brian]

Jim GM4DHJ ... <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On 01/12/2021 17:39, alan_m wrote:
>> On 01/12/2021 17:35, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
>>> On 01/12/2021 14:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>>>> In article <so7s7f$dqh$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>>     Jim GM4DHJ ... <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 01/12/2021 12:05, Andrew wrote:
>>>>>> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains
>>>>>> sometimes turn out not to be so ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>> haha
>>>>
>>>> So you both enjoyed paying over the odds for gas and electricity, then?
>>>>
>>>> That doesn't quite fit in with your love of free food parcels, Jim.
>>>>
>>> YES...WE HATE CHEAPSKATE PARASITES ....I took the food parcels because
>>> we couldn't risk going to the shops.....
>>
>>
>> All the major supermarkets would have delivered the food you paid for!
>>
> paid for?...how does that work ? ...
>

Don’t you normally pay for the groceries you get from supermarkets?

[Brian]

It is more than likely your free food packages were donated. Probably
delivered by people who were associated with a charity. Charities fund a
lot of medical research, enabling things like transplants.

[John Rumm]

A few shops were doing food boxes by courier in the early days... they
could deliver most places, and you did not need a delivery slot.


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Sysadmin]

On Wed, 01 Dec 2021 13:25:04 +0000, RJH wrote:

> On 1 Dec 2021 at 13:17:45 GMT, "Sysadmin" <j...@home.net> wrote:

>
>> On Wed, 01 Dec 2021 12:05:10 +0000, Andrew wrote:
>>
>>> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains sometimes
>>> turn out not to be so ...
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>

>> I had made several calls to E.ON_Next and only today have I received
>> any sensible information. Got an account number, a new lower than
>> expected tariff and have been able to set up a direct
>> debit...apparently they are still waiting for all the info from Symbio.
>> I was concerned about getting a big bill in January, but E.ON had
>> received my overpayment from them and that should cover a couple of
>> months..
>
> OOI, what's your tariff?

With Direct Debit set up:

Daily standing charge 24.47p

Day rate 23.49p/kWhr

Night rate 12.45p/kWhr

All quoted with VAT included.

[RJH]

Thanks - I've been given standing charge 26.284p, 20.076p kWh single tariff
--
Cheers, Rob

[Sysadmin]

My original standing charge was 29.05p/day

Day Rate was 24.46p/kWhr

Night Rate was 13.49p/kWhr

She also said there is a reduction of £45/year for paying by Direct Debit.

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

nah it was full of the cheapest crap the gov could get hold of and
delivered by Brakes the cake people..I had national insurance for the
transplant...good to hear you believe I had one....

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

On 01/12/2021 20:50, Rod Speed wrote:
> Jim GM4DHJ ... <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote
>> alan_m wrote
>>> Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote
>>>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote
>>>>> Jim GM4DHJ ... <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote
>>>>>> Andrew wrote
>
>>>>>>> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains
>>>>>>> sometimes turn out not to be so ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> haha
>>>>>
>>>>> So you both enjoyed paying over the odds for gas and electricity,
>>>>> then?
>>>>>
>>>>> That doesn't quite fit in with your love of free food parcels, Jim.
>>>>>
>>>> YES...WE HATE CHEAPSKATE PARASITES ....I took the food parcels
>>>> because we couldn't risk going to the shops.....
>
>>> All the major supermarkets would have delivered the food you paid for!
>
>> OK then to be honest it was the first feebee I ever had
>
> Nope, you got far more when going to school.
>
> And with the liver transplant in spades.
>
>> and I enjoyed it...tee hee
>

no none of those are freebees silly ....

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

On 01/12/2021 21:33, Brian wrote:

you mean like the Polish that put goods through the self check out then
try to leave wirhout paying ?...

[The Natural Philosopher]

That might have actually been better.

--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

[John Brown]

The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote
> John Brown wrote
>> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote
>>> Theo wrote
>>>> Andrew <Andrew9...@mybtinternet.com> wrote
>>
>>>>> But in the normal scheme of things related to failed companies
>>>>> there is no money left to pay creditors who typically get little
>>>>> or nothing.
>>>>
>>>> In the normal scheme of things businesses who hold client money are
>>>> required
>>>> to hold it in separate accounts. So your firm of solicitors might go
>>>> bust,
>>>> but your house deposit is separate from their working cash fund. The
>>>> administrators have to untangle things, which takes some time, but
>>>> the money
>>>> is safe. Similar may apply here.
>>>>
>>> I hope not. people who are essentially taking commercial risks need to
>>> be exposed to the risk downsides as well as the upsides. It would have
>>> been better if nearly all the high street banks had collapsed...
>>
>> Nope, that would have produced another great depression or worse.
>
> That might have actually been better.

No chance given that it took a full world war to fix that in the UK.

[Rod Speed]

You didn’t pay a penny toward your school education and
didn’t come even close to pay for your transplant either.

[Roland Perry]

In message <so9lvu$cfi$1...@dont-email.me>, at 05:35:58 on Thu, 2 Dec 2021,
RJH <patch...@gmx.com> remarked:

Those are both close to what British Gas have quoted me as "Standard
Variable" at the impending end of my fixed deal.

I don't know what my day/night ratio is, but a gut feel that if
I was paying 3p more in the daytime it would more than cancel
out the discount overnight.
--
Roland Perry

[Brian Gaff (Sofa)]

I've never heard of them, sounds like a name taken from a low budge B shi fi
movie.

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Andrew" <Andrew9...@mybtinternet.com> wrote in message
news:so7odn$1763$1...@gioia.aioe.org...

[The Natural Philosopher]

For interest my EDF tariff that i've been on for ages. Fixed rate ends
March 22...VAT included


Electricity day unit rate: 19.87p per kWh
Electricity night unit rate: 8.99p per kWh
Daily standing charge: 23.86p per day


--
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over
the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that
authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

Frédéric Bastiat

[Brian Gaff (Sofa)]

Don't you think tax calculated by percentages is unfair to some degree, as
its going to cost more to heat houses in the north, more than the south,
and in any case the companies surely must have had financial advice before
cutting prices to the bone. Unfortunately the supply of fossil fuels and the
costs of keeping renewable going will also vary. I guess in the least
efficient businesses one could accuse the companies of money making but if
that were so, how come its these very businesses who will be left at the end
of these troubled times.

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

"alan_m" <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:j0pr4o...@mid.individual.net...
> On 01/12/2021 17:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 01/12/2021 17:00, alan_m wrote:

>>> On 01/12/2021 12:05, Andrew wrote:
>>>> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains
>>>> sometimes turn out not to be so ...
>>>

>>> Being a cheapskate I've lost nothing and have the satisfaction that over
>>> the last decade or so I've not been overpaying for my energy.
>>>
>>> If over the same period the big players have been buying future gas at
>>> cheaper prices why have their customers been paying more?
>>>
>> They haven't been buying future gas at cheaper prices. They have been
>> buying future gas at higher but guaranteed prices. Or hedging with
>> derivatives which amounts to paying an insurance premium against price
>> rises.
>>
>> What *should* have happened is that you got stuck paying market prices
>> and your bills trebled. Ofgem prevented that, so the cost has fallen on
>> non cheapskate customers and the tax payer.
>>
>
> Bills wouldn't have trebled. The wholesale price of the energy doesn't
> make 100% of the bill. Before the wholesale cost increases it was around
> 35% of a dual fuel bill. Green stealth taxes make up 25% of the
> electricity bill.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

nothing is free

[Peeler]

On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 19:42:57 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 87-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

[Peeler]

On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 19:40:56 +1100, John Brown, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

williamwright addressing Rodent Speed:
"You are an insecure blathermouth with an inferiority complex."
MID: <j08dic...@mid.individual.net>

[Peter Able]

On 02/12/2021 08:49, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> I've never heard of them, sounds like a name taken from a low budge B shi fi
> movie.
>
> Brian
>

Have a look / listen:

https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-king-zog-1936-online

PA

[Brian]

Food was donated, packed by volunteers, and delivered by companies with
vehicles in many areas. That is how it worked. In fact is still working in
some areas, on a smaller scale.

You were too busy posting cr** on newsgroups to notice, let alone
contribute.

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

perhaps in englandshire it was .....

>
> You were too busy posting cr** on newsgroups to notice, let alone
> contribute.
>
>
>
>
>

Is that why you were spotted running around during lock down by cole ?...

[Brian]

Typically night it is about 1/3 of your total. That is the guide the
companies use and it was right for us. We did some things like putting the
dishwasher on overnight and some washing machine runs, which is typical I
assume. Our ratio changed when I started charging the hybrid at night. Not
sure what to.

[Theo]

Brian <no...@lid.org> wrote:
> Food was donated, packed by volunteers, and delivered by companies with
> vehicles in many areas. That is how it worked. In fact is still working in
> some areas, on a smaller scale.

No, it was a £208m government contract let to Brakes and Bidfood:
https://www.newstatesman.com/world/uk/2020/10/208m-food-box-rip-off-private-outsource-government-contract-covid-corona-virus

There are other 'we'll do your shopping for you' services offered by
volunteers, but the boxes were provided as a commercial service, at a cost
to the taxpayer of £44 per box.

> You were too busy posting cr** on newsgroups to notice, let alone
> contribute.

Ahem.

Theo

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

44 quid what a rip off

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

On 02/12/2021 10:02, Theo wrote:

so brian is wrong again....no surprise there then....

[Richard]

The rip off is people who do not honestly need such support taking
advantage.

[Andrew]

On 02/12/2021 10:02, Theo wrote:

> Brian <no...@lid.org> wrote:
>> Food was donated, packed by volunteers, and delivered by companies with
>> vehicles in many areas. That is how it worked. In fact is still working in
>> some areas, on a smaller scale.
>
> No, it was a £208m government contract let to Brakes and Bidfood:
> https://www.newstatesman.com/world/uk/2020/10/208m-food-box-rip-off-private-outsource-government-contract-covid-corona-virus
>
> There are other 'we'll do your shopping for you' services offered by
> volunteers, but the boxes were provided as a commercial service, at a cost
> to the taxpayer of £44 per box.

£44 for a box of crap that would have cost £15 at Lidl !??

[Andrew]

You need look no further than the motability scheme/scam for
evidence of that. The british will tell what ever massive
porkies necessary to get one of those at zero cost to
themselves (and no, the leasing payments are just 'paid'
out of freebie benefits)

[Roland Perry]

In message <soa3il$lnk$1...@dont-email.me>, at 09:27:49 on Thu, 2 Dec 2021,
Brian <no...@lid.org> remarked:

I'm quite sure mine isn't anything like as much as that.

Especially as "night" is only midnight to 7am (my supplier, my area).
Even if everything was on just as much as during the day (which clearly
they aren't) that's less than 1/3 of the day.

>That is the guide the companies use and it was right for us.

Let's 1000 units @ 20.1p = 201
see: 667 units @ 23.5p = 156
333 units @ 12.45p = 41
----
197 <- is that really worth the palaver?

My conclusion has always been that *unless* you have had a significant
number of storage radiators (and those won't be on 12 months of the year
anyway) the whole economy 7 thing is a scam.

>We did some things like putting the dishwasher on overnight and some
>washing machine runs, which is typical I assume. Our ratio changed
>when I started charging the hybrid at night. Not sure what to.

A full EV typically doubles a household's electricity consumption, so
that would be a good way to get over a third. And hopefully the charger
has an automatic timer in it.
--
Roland Perry

[Brian]

Which part of many areas don’t you understand?

While people like you were watching TV on furlough/ benefits, volunteers
were packing and delivering food to people who needed it.

Unfortunately, some went to freeloaders.

[Brian]

Exactly.

“More money than they know what to do with.”

[Andrew]

On 01/12/2021 19:39, Brian wrote:

> alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>> On 01/12/2021 17:35, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
>>> On 01/12/2021 14:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>>>> In article <so7s7f$dqh$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>>>     Jim GM4DHJ ... <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>>>>> On 01/12/2021 12:05, Andrew wrote:
>>>>>> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains
>>>>>> sometimes turn out not to be so ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andrew

>>>>> haha
>>>>
>>>> So you both enjoyed paying over the odds for gas and electricity, then?
>>>>
>>>> That doesn't quite fit in with your love of free food parcels, Jim.
>>>>
>>> YES...WE HATE CHEAPSKATE PARASITES ....I took the food parcels because
>>> we couldn't risk going to the shops.....
>>
>>

>> All the major supermarkets would have delivered the food you paid for!
>>
>

> Jim is a freeloader.
>

20 million UK citizens are freeloading in one way or another.

Every female who has had (or intends to have) more than 2 kids
when the total income or her and her partner (if there is one!!)
is less the the amount that would put her/them into 40% tax, is
being subsidised by other people. And since 1945 that subsidy
has been disguised as the 'national debt'. This is just a tax
on future generations, while the annual interest (currently about
£80 Billion) mostly hits current taxpayers. The usual government
'get out of jail for free' card is to engineer a period of
inflation to erode the debt, but this time the biggest
chunk of index-linked debt that HM treaury has to budget for
is the state pension plus the massive unfunded inflation-proof
public sector pensions. They haven't issued index-linked gilts
for years which is why anyone buying them now and holding to
redemption will suffer an absolute loss, while conventional
gilts are paying 0.7% per year if held to redemption.
The more inflation goes up, the more the government has to pay
out to cosset those 20 million.

I heard on the BBC news earlier about how GPs are being asked
to concentrate on the massive backlog of cases when they are
spending most of their time 'reviewing and managing' Britains
army of 'diabetics' and other so-called vulnerable people.
GP's apparently get paid extra money for doing the latter

[Andrew]

It only ever 'worked' because we used to have coal and nuclear power
stations belting out power at night when demand was much less. Hence
storage rads were a means of having a distributed 'battery' system
all around the country to soak up this power and provide some extra
income to the generators.

With the demise of coal and less nuclear, and more highly variable
power sources, the concept of off-peak electricity is dead in the
water.

[Theo]

Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> Brian <no...@lid.org> remarked:

> >Typically night it is about 1/3 of your total.
>
> I'm quite sure mine isn't anything like as much as that.
>
> Especially as "night" is only midnight to 7am (my supplier, my area).
> Even if everything was on just as much as during the day (which clearly
> they aren't) that's less than 1/3 of the day.

It's 29%, so not far off.

> >That is the guide the companies use and it was right for us.
>
> Let's 1000 units @ 20.1p = 201
> see: 667 units @ 23.5p = 156
> 333 units @ 12.45p = 41
> ----
> 197 <- is that really worth the palaver?
>
> My conclusion has always been that *unless* you have had a significant
> number of storage radiators (and those won't be on 12 months of the year
> anyway) the whole economy 7 thing is a scam.

I think it made sense at one time, because there was a much greater
difference between day and night rate.

Then we had coal power stations that were very slow to get up to temperature
once they had gone 'off the boil', so it made sense to keep them running
overnight even though demand wasn't there. E7 was a way to make use of that
'free' electricity, by stimulating people to install electric heating to use
the cheap rate, replacing them burning a coal fire.

Nowadays generation is mostly renewables and gas, which don't have that kind
of excess of night time power (nuclear would have, but there isn't enough to
cover base loads and also provide a surplus), so it isn't 'free' any more.

Demand does still back off overnight, so supply/demand means prices are
lower - modern E7 captures that difference, but it's not as big as it used
to be.

The modern day situation is times when there's loads of wind or solar, when
occasionally the wholesale price becomes low or even negative. But for
those you need a smart tariff.

> A full EV typically doubles a household's electricity consumption, so
> that would be a good way to get over a third. And hopefully the charger
> has an automatic timer in it.

If you have an EV you also need to consider how many hours you need to
charge for, ie how much power you can draw during your cheap period. Some
of the smart tariffs with 'narrow and deep' cheap windows (eg 3 hours at
5p/kWh) may be harder to exploit in that respect.

Theo

[Brian]

It has always worked for us.

BTW, they is no real palaver.

You request it, they change your meter.

At worst when I submit readings I read 3 dials ( inc gas) rather than 2.

We would run the DW overnight most times anyway- it gets filled during the
day, especially with just two of us, and it is logical to run it full.

Washing machine goes on at night and washing gets hung out in morning-
logical again.

>> We did some things like putting the dishwasher on overnight and some
>> washing machine runs, which is typical I assume. Our ratio changed
>> when I started charging the hybrid at night. Not sure what to.
>
> A full EV typically doubles a household's electricity consumption, so
> that would be a good way to get over a third. And hopefully the charger
> has an automatic timer in it.

Our car the timer is in car. I suspect some chargers have timers.


Incidentally, Ofgen number for average daily electric consumption per house
(2.4 people) is approx 8kWhr.

An EV does, typically, 3miles per kWh of battery capacity- you can squeeze
more but 3 is a good working number.

(The Ofgen number seems low to me but ….)

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

On 02/12/2021 10:15, Richard wrote:

totly

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

total fly men and big fat wummin

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

you can't but freebees

[Roland Perry]

In message <soac5b$1j46$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, at 11:54:19 on Thu, 2 Dec
2021, Andrew <Andrew9...@mybtinternet.com> remarked:

Hopefully the white meter's discount was more than today's, partly
because of the way they cunningly increase your daytime rate (something
they don't go out of their way to tell you).

>With the demise of coal and less nuclear, and more highly variable
>power sources, the concept of off-peak electricity is dead in the
>water.

--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <soad7c$l2c$1...@dont-email.me>, at 12:12:28 on Thu, 2 Dec 2021,

The palaver is working out whether your overnight consumption for those
7 hours is high enough to trigger a cheaper bill, and then arranging for
your appliances to come on in the middle of the night.

I tend to prefer cooking my dinner in the early evening, for example.

>At worst when I submit readings I read 3 dials ( inc gas) rather than 2.
>
>We would run the DW overnight most times anyway- it gets filled during the
>day, especially with just two of us, and it is logical to run it full.
>
>Washing machine goes on at night and washing gets hung out in morning-
>logical again.

And what percentage of your bill is accounted for by those two
appliances? If it's a third, I think you need to buy more economical
ones.

>>> We did some things like putting the dishwasher on overnight and some
>>> washing machine runs, which is typical I assume. Our ratio changed
>>> when I started charging the hybrid at night. Not sure what to.
>>
>> A full EV typically doubles a household's electricity consumption, so
>> that would be a good way to get over a third. And hopefully the charger
>> has an automatic timer in it.
>
>Our car the timer is in car. I suspect some chargers have timers.
>
>Incidentally, Ofgen number for average daily electric consumption per house
>(2.4 people) is approx 8kWhr.
>
>An EV does, typically, 3miles per kWh of battery capacity- you can squeeze
>more but 3 is a good working number.

10k miles a year is 27 a day, so that's almost exactly 3 * 8.

>(The Ofgen number seems low to me but ….)

Ours is closer to 15. But we do have two people working from home all
day (and have done most of the last 30yrs).
--
Roland Perry

[newshound]

On 01/12/2021 20:34, Rod Speed wrote:

>
>> The way the energy market is regulated their customers won, their
>> managers won, their investors lost (but many will get tax relief to
>> cushion the blow), and other customers/taxpayers lost (with no cushion).
>
> And only the most stupid regulators end up subsidising them.

The regulator does not have any money

>
> They shouldn’t have been allowed to offer fixed price contracts.

They were *encouraged* to, because reducing uncertainty for consumers is
supposed to be a good thing. And then for those with the (arguably more
appropriate) variable rate tariffs the Government plonked a Price Cap on
top of them, to "protect" consumers. So they could wave a flag to voters
about how good they were being.

Just like Brexit, having the cake *and* eating it.

[Brian]

Your idea of a palaver is different to mine or, more likely, you insist on
justifying your position is right without knowing the facts.

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

tell them to get a real job

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <so8bou$2hk$1...@dont-email.me>,

Jim GM4DHJ ... <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On 01/12/2021 14:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> > In article <so7s7f$dqh$1...@dont-email.me>,
> > Jim GM4DHJ ... <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> >> On 01/12/2021 12:05, Andrew wrote:
> >>> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains
> >>> sometimes turn out not to be so ...
> >>>
> >>> Andrew

> >> haha
> >
> > So you both enjoyed paying over the odds for gas and electricity, then?
> >
> > That doesn't quite fit in with your love of free food parcels, Jim.
> >
> YES...WE HATE CHEAPSKATE PARASITES ....I took the food parcels because
> we couldn't risk going to the shops.....

Surely if you'd saved money by getting the best deal on energy, you'd have
been able to afford to pay for grocery deliveries rather than rely on
handouts?

--
*Constipated People Don't Give A Crap*

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <59941d39...@candehope.me.uk>,
charles <cha...@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
> In article <j0pq9q...@mid.individual.net>,
> alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> > On 01/12/2021 17:35, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
> > > On 01/12/2021 14:11, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> > >> In article <so7s7f$dqh$1...@dont-email.me>,
> > >> Jim GM4DHJ ... <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > >>> On 01/12/2021 12:05, Andrew wrote:
> > >>>> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains
> > >>>> sometimes turn out not to be so ...
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Andrew
> > >>> haha
> > >>
> > >> So you both enjoyed paying over the odds for gas and electricity, then?
> > >>
> > >> That doesn't quite fit in with your love of free food parcels, Jim.
> > >>
> > > YES...WE HATE CHEAPSKATE PARASITES ....I took the food parcels because
> > > we couldn't risk going to the shops.....

> > All the major supermarkets would have delivered the food you paid for!

> Round here, it was impossible to get a delivery slot even with all
> thenmajor firms in the area. . Jim lives somewhere only one firm might
> deliver.

I had one food parcel before finding a supermarket who would deliver. To
priority customers. Those who couldn't safely go shopping themselves. And
I'd never had a grocery delivery before that.

--
*I don't have a solution, but I admire your problem. *

[The Natural Philosopher]

Just like the EU, interfering in the market for political reasons and
making a right buggers muddle of it.

--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

[Roland Perry]

In message <soagc6$b24$2...@dont-email.me>, at 13:06:14 on Thu, 2 Dec 2021,
Brian <no...@lid.org> remarked:

Tell us the facts, then.
--
Roland Perry

[Rod Speed]

"Jim GM4DHJ ..." <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:soa1nu$9in$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 02/12/2021 08:42, Rod Speed wrote:
>> Jim GM4DHJ ... <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote

>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>> Jim GM4DHJ ... <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote

>>>>> alan_m wrote
>>>>>> Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote
>>>>>>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote

>>>>>>>> Jim GM4DHJ ... <kinvig...@ntlworld.com> wrote

>>>>>>>>> Andrew wrote
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Another 11,000 cheapskaters have discovered that bargains
>>>>>>>>>> sometimes turn out not to be so ...
>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> haha
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So you both enjoyed paying over the odds for gas and electricity,
>>>>>>>> then?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That doesn't quite fit in with your love of free food parcels, Jim.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> YES...WE HATE CHEAPSKATE PARASITES ....I took the food parcels
>>>>>>> because we couldn't risk going to the shops.....
>>>>
>>>>>> All the major supermarkets would have delivered the food you paid
>>>>>> for!
>>>>

>>>>> OK then to be honest it was the first feebee I ever had
>>>>
>>>> Nope, you got far more when going to school.
>>>>
>>>> And with the liver transplant in spades.
>>>>
>>>>> and I enjoyed it...tee hee
>>>>
>>> no none of those are freebees silly ....
>>
>> You didn’t pay a penny toward your school education and
>> didn’t come even close to pay for your transplant either.

> nothing is free

Plenty of stuff still is. I never pay any bank fees and no
fee when moving money to other people or from them.

[Rod Speed]

newshound <news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote

> Rod Speed wrote

>>> The way the energy market is regulated their customers won, their
>>> managers won, their investors lost (but many will get tax relief to
>>> cushion the blow), and other customers/taxpayers lost (with no cushion).

>> And only the most stupid regulators end up subsidising them.

> The regulator does not have any money

The reality is that they use govt money.

>> They shouldn’t have been allowed to offer fixed price contracts.

> They were *encouraged* to,

And that was stupid and what caused your utter fiasco.

> because reducing uncertainty for consumers is supposed to be a good thing.

Pity about the uncertainty when the shit hits the fan.

> And then for those with the (arguably more appropriate) variable rate
> tariffs the Government plonked a Price Cap on top of them, to "protect"
> consumers.

And that was terminally stupid. Quite literally
terminal for the cheap suppliers.

> So they could wave a flag to voters about how good they were being.

> Just like Brexit, having the cake *and* eating it.

Brexit worked out fine.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 03:07:40 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

03:07 in Australia? Is it that time of the night again, you abnormal
trolling piece of senile shit?

--
The Natural Philosopher about senile Rodent:
"Rod speed is not a Brexiteer. He is an Australian troll and arsehole."
Message-ID: <pu07vj$s5$2...@dont-email.me>

[Peeler]

On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 03:29:30 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
FredXX to Rodent Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shipped the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID: <plbf76$gfl$1...@dont-email.me>