Fecking freezer door left ajar ...

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Jethro

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Sep 21, 2011, 7:17:02 AM9/21/11
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Grrrr ... about £200 worth of food wasted ....

Does anyone know if you can get some sort of doohickey you can leave in
the freezer which will sound an alarm if the temperature rises ? I know
cold kills batteries, so have no idea how it could work.

TMC

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Sep 21, 2011, 7:31:40 AM9/21/11
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"Jethro" <krazy...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:OIjeq.1193$v%1....@newsfe04.ams2...

google him say

http://www.legendcookshop.co.uk/digital-fridge-and-freezer-thermometer-alarm-25797-0.html

http://www.fridge-freezer-alarm.co.uk/

Have never used one but am considering it now that I have seen them

Regards

Tony

Jethro

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Sep 21, 2011, 7:37:34 AM9/21/11
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Thanks for that ... obviously I can google, but I was hoping someone here
would say "I use <link>" ... there's one on amazon which got a very poor
review ...

Mike Barnes

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Sep 21, 2011, 8:14:07 AM9/21/11
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Jethro <krazy...@googlemail.com>:
You can buy them, e.g...

http://digitron.co.uk/product/10/wirelessdigtherm-fm25-wireless-digital-thermometer

...but IMO a temperature sensor isn't the right solution for this
problem.

I made (this *is* uk.d-i-y) an alarm device that senses if the door is
left open, even slightly open, for more than a couple of minutes.

The sensor is a 2-way magnetic alarm switch. The magnet is sticky-padded
to the underside of the door at the opposite side from the hinge. The
switch is sticky-padded to the underside of the body of the fridge,
almost touching the magnet when the door is closed. Also there's an LED
indicator which is wired in series with the switch. The switch/LED is
connected to a control box, about the size of cigarette packet, stuffed
into the gap at the side of the fridge.

When the door opens, the switch closes, which lights the LED (to confirm
that it's working) and starts a timer. When the door closes properly,
the switch opens, the LED goes out, and the timer stops.

But if the door isn't closed properly, the LED stays lit, and the timer
sounds an alarm after a couple of minutes. Closing the door properly
cancels the alarm.

The whole thing is powered by a wall wart. I used a pre-built timer
module from Maplin or CPC (I forget which), which has a simple adjuster
for the timer delay.

Once installed, it's simple and effective.

--
Mike Barnes

Jim K

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Sep 21, 2011, 8:14:47 AM9/21/11
to
On Sep 21, 12:37 pm, Jethro <krazyka...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 12:31:40 +0100, TMC wrote:
> > "Jethro" <krazyka...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
or you sh/could have just said "I have already googled and seen these
<links> - tho the one on Amazon got a poor review....anyone any
experiences?"

;>)

Jim K

Jim K

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Sep 21, 2011, 8:18:33 AM9/21/11
to
On Sep 21, 1:14 pm, Mike Barnes <mikebar...@bluebottle.com> wrote:
> Jethro <krazyka...@googlemail.com>:
>
> >Grrrr ... about 200 worth of food wasted ....
>
> >Does anyone know if you can get some sort of doohickey you can leave in
> >the freezer which will sound an alarm if the temperature rises ? I know
> >cold kills batteries, so have no idea how it could work.
>
> You can buy them, e.g...
>
> http://digitron.co.uk/product/10/wirelessdigtherm-fm25-wireless-digit...
>
> ...but IMO a temperature sensor isn't the right solution for this
> problem.
>
> I made (this *is* uk.d-i-y) an alarm device that senses if the door is
> left open, even slightly open, for more than a couple of minutes.
>
> The sensor is a 2-way magnetic alarm switch. The magnet is sticky-padded
> to the underside of the door at the opposite side from the hinge. The
> switch is sticky-padded to the underside of the body of the fridge,
> almost touching the magnet when the door is closed. Also there's an LED
> indicator which is wired in series with the switch. The switch/LED is
> connected to a control box, about the size of cigarette packet, stuffed
> into the gap at the side of the fridge.
>
> When the door opens, the switch closes, which lights the LED (to confirm
> that it's working) and starts a timer. When the door closes properly,
> the switch opens, the LED goes out, and the timer stops.
>
> But if the door isn't closed properly, the LED stays lit, and the timer
> sounds an alarm after a couple of minutes. Closing the door properly
> cancels the alarm.
>
> The whole thing is powered by a wall wart. I used a pre-built timer
> module from Maplin or CPC (I forget which), which has a simple adjuster
> for the timer delay.
>
> Once installed, it's simple and effective.
>
> --
> Mike Barnes

neat! why dont they build em in FFS?

Jim K

Jim K

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Sep 21, 2011, 8:17:11 AM9/21/11
to
On Sep 21, 1:14 pm, Mike Barnes <mikebar...@bluebottle.com> wrote:
> Jethro <krazyka...@googlemail.com>:
>
> >Grrrr ... about 200 worth of food wasted ....
>
> >Does anyone know if you can get some sort of doohickey you can leave in
> >the freezer which will sound an alarm if the temperature rises ? I know
> >cold kills batteries, so have no idea how it could work.
>
> You can buy them, e.g...
>
> http://digitron.co.uk/product/10/wirelessdigtherm-fm25-wireless-digit...
>
> ...but IMO a temperature sensor isn't the right solution for this
> problem.
>
> I made (this *is* uk.d-i-y) an alarm device that senses if the door is
> left open, even slightly open, for more than a couple of minutes.
>
> The sensor is a 2-way magnetic alarm switch. The magnet is sticky-padded
> to the underside of the door at the opposite side from the hinge. The
> switch is sticky-padded to the underside of the body of the fridge,
> almost touching the magnet when the door is closed. Also there's an LED
> indicator which is wired in series with the switch. The switch/LED is
> connected to a control box, about the size of cigarette packet, stuffed
> into the gap at the side of the fridge.
>
> When the door opens, the switch closes, which lights the LED (to confirm
> that it's working) and starts a timer. When the door closes properly,
> the switch opens, the LED goes out, and the timer stops.
>
> But if the door isn't closed properly, the LED stays lit, and the timer
> sounds an alarm after a couple of minutes. Closing the door properly
> cancels the alarm.
>
> The whole thing is powered by a wall wart. I used a pre-built timer
> module from Maplin or CPC (I forget which), which has a simple adjuster
> for the timer delay.
>
> Once installed, it's simple and effective.
>
> --
> Mike Barnes

neat! wish they'd build em in FFS

Jim K

MM

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Sep 21, 2011, 8:44:26 AM9/21/11
to
On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 11:37:34 GMT, Jethro <krazy...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
I don't have a freezer, but since my op last Friday I may have to get
one as I can't drive and will need to get food delivered.

So, how long was that freezer door open?

MM

RobertL

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Sep 21, 2011, 8:55:38 AM9/21/11
to
They do. My freezer has an alarm that sounds if the tempertaure rises
too high. I

Robert

Tim Watts

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Sep 21, 2011, 9:00:29 AM9/21/11
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Mike Barnes wrote:

> Jethro <krazy...@googlemail.com>:
>>Grrrr ... about £200 worth of food wasted ....
>>
>>Does anyone know if you can get some sort of doohickey you can leave in
>>the freezer which will sound an alarm if the temperature rises ? I know
>>cold kills batteries, so have no idea how it could work.

Bad luck mate...

In the 70'/80's I made a Heathkit freezer alarm kit. It had a temp sensor
*and* a door-ajar sensor which was a microswitch on a little bracket, sticky
padded to the frame and a rubber stick on bump-stop on the door that
operated the microswitch when closed.

I'm thinking you could nearly trivially DIY this (maybe with a reed switch
and magnet instead). PP3, small bleeper module and reed switch so it bleeps,
softly but annoyingly when the door is not closed.

For extra marks, put a 60 second time delay on it.

Cheers

Tim

--
Tim Watts

Tim Watts

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Sep 21, 2011, 9:01:37 AM9/21/11
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Jim K wrote:


> neat! why dont they build em in FFS?
>
> Jim K

Miele do. On my fridge anyway - beeps after about 30 seconds open, with a
silence button.

I suspect my other suggestion might be cheaper for the OP though :)
--
Tim Watts

Jethro

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Sep 21, 2011, 9:22:03 AM9/21/11
to
Funny, discussing with the Mrs over lunch, and we decided that a
*temperature* alarm was probably not the way, since the freezer is
usually opened last thing at night, for the next days meal, and is the
other side of the house. So we'd never hear the alarm by the time the
temperature had gone up ...

So I said we need a *door ajar* alarm instead ... I see what I can cobble
together .. (it's be years since I soldered in anger).

Many thanks for the description

Jethro

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Sep 21, 2011, 9:22:50 AM9/21/11
to
Long enough that the burgers in the top drawer had completely
defrosted ...

Jethro

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Sep 21, 2011, 9:23:15 AM9/21/11
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Fair point :-)

NT

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Sep 21, 2011, 9:22:36 AM9/21/11
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On Sep 21, 1:18 pm, Jim K <jk989...@gmail.com> wrote:
Whirlpoo have them built in too. 30 seconds with door open, eg while
loading it up, and it starts bleeping. Close the door and it continues
bleeping for a few minutes more. And no, the cancel button doesnt. And
if the mains feed fails, well, there wont be any alarm. Oh well, I
guess it sounded like a good idea. In reality its a nuisance, and
since the door is well sprung it has close to no use. The only time it
would ever be of use is if the thermostat or comperssor failed. And
even then, few people will have spare freezer space in another machine
to use, or get a new machine delivered within hours.

So yes, theyre useful, but get the design details right or theyre
nothing but a stupid liability.


NT

Tony Bryer

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Sep 21, 2011, 9:56:28 AM9/21/11
to
Aside from the technical answers, I had this problem with my fridge
freezer in the UK. When I moved here I read the instructions (shock!)
with my new one which said to jack the front feet up a little so the
doors self close. Simple. But you may have done this already.

--
Tony Bryer, Greentram: 'Software to build on',
Melbourne, Australia www.greentram.com

Mike Barnes

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Sep 21, 2011, 9:18:38 AM9/21/11
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Jim K <jk98...@gmail.com>:
>On Sep 21, 1:14 pm, Mike Barnes <mikebar...@bluebottle.com> wrote:
>> Jethro <krazyka...@googlemail.com>:
>>
>> >Grrrr ... about 200 worth of food wasted ....
>>
>> >Does anyone know if you can get some sort of doohickey you can leave in
>> >the freezer which will sound an alarm if the temperature rises ? I know
>> >cold kills batteries, so have no idea how it could work.
>>
>> You can buy them, e.g...
>>
>> http://digitron.co.uk/product/10/wirelessdigtherm-fm25-wireless-digit...
>>
>> ...but IMO a temperature sensor isn't the right solution for this
>> problem.
>>
>> I made (this *is* uk.d-i-y) an alarm device that senses if the door is
>> left open, even slightly open, for more than a couple of minutes.
>>
>>[...]
>>
>neat! why dont they build em in FFS?

They do, kind of, but because they're lazy/cheapskates/incompetent they
put the sensors on the hinge side. Which is OK for detecting a door wide
open (who needs that FFS?) but completely useless for detecting a door
open only a few mm because a drawer isn't pushed fully in.

I do wonder sometimes why it is that manufacturers so often fail to
address the problems that real users have - problems that are not
exactly new. Why do they make kettles with switch-off thermostats that
take several minutes to reset? Why do they make teapots with spouts that
drip? Why do they make trousers that lose all your change when you sit
in your car? It's not rocket science.

--
Mike Barnes

Kevin Poole

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Sep 21, 2011, 11:01:28 AM9/21/11
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On 21/09/2011 12:31, TMC wrote:
>
> "Jethro" <krazy...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
> news:OIjeq.1193$v%1....@newsfe04.ams2...
>> Grrrr ... about £200 worth of food wasted ....

Don't be a wuss. Unless the food had been at room temperature for a
while, the worst that will happen is that some of it may have
agglomerated (e.g. frozen chips), and icecream will have shrunk.

>>
>> Does anyone know if you can get some sort of doohickey you can leave in
>> the freezer which will sound an alarm if the temperature rises ? I know
>> cold kills batteries, so have no idea how it could work.
>
> google him say

>


> http://www.fridge-freezer-alarm.co.uk/
>
> Have never used one but am considering it now that I have seen them
>

I fitted one of their BUZ-LK models to my inlaws' freezer, since the old
chap often left it open. It's a bit crudely made, and mounting the main
box on the side of the freezer only works if there's a lot of room
between it and the next appliance. Because theirs is an under-worktop
model, I had to mount the box below the door, where it's vulnerable to
being kicked, or knocked off when they pull the bottom basket right out.

Still, it's reduced the number of times my wife's had to go and defrost
it for them.

I couldn't face re-learning how to make electronic devices without any
valves - hence the diy was only installation.


--
Kevin Poole

Maria

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Sep 21, 2011, 11:39:30 AM9/21/11
to

My fridge has a door open alarm - it goes off constantly because the
little ice box door has fallen off and you can't switch that compartment
off separately! Grrr...

Dave Liquorice

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Sep 21, 2011, 11:49:40 AM9/21/11
to
On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 05:55:38 -0700 (PDT), RobertL wrote:

>> neat! why dont they build em in FFS?
>
> They do. My freezer has an alarm that sounds if the tempertaure rises
> too high.

Our Hotpoint has similar shove a couple of loaves of bread in and a
few minutes later the alarm sounds. Also sounds if the door is left
ajar for a few minutes. This freezer has electronic rather than
mechanical thermostat control.

The fridge has a door open alarm but it is based around the light
switch so if the door is only just open it doesn't sound.

--
Cheers
Dave.



ARWadsworth

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Sep 21, 2011, 12:00:16 PM9/21/11
to
MM <kyli...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I don't have a freezer, but since my op last Friday I may have to get
> one as I can't drive and will need to get food delivered.

Welcome to the 21st Century.


--
Adam


Dave Liquorice

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Sep 21, 2011, 11:58:25 AM9/21/11
to
On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 13:22:50 GMT, Jethro wrote:

>> I don't have a freezer, but since my op last Friday I may have to
get
>> one as I can't drive and will need to get food delivered.
>>
>> So, how long was that freezer door open?
>
> Long enough that the burgers in the top drawer had completely
> defrosted ...

Bit of a "piece of string question". If the room is warm defrosting
will happen quicker than being in a cool room. Found the door of our
upright slightly open the other day. Alarm light on (no audible
alarm, has a light why not have a beep as well FFS!), compressor
working overtime trying to keep everything frozen, it succeeded in
that a lot of the melt was frozen, food may have got a bit warm but
was still solid. Certainly colder than when it gets put in after the
hours journey back from the supermarket.

Not sure how long the door had been ajar but hours rather minutes.

--
Cheers
Dave.



The Medway Handyman

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Sep 21, 2011, 12:32:01 PM9/21/11
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A lot of modern freezers have alarms built in, they beep loudly if the
temp drops by a certain amount.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

Bob Eager

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Sep 21, 2011, 12:40:15 PM9/21/11
to

I used an indoor/outdoor thermometer with built in alarm.

Put the 'outside' temperature sensor inside (thin wire stright over the
door seal) and set it to shriek if the temperature rose past a certain
point.


--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

harry

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Sep 21, 2011, 12:46:27 PM9/21/11
to
Wire something in parallel with the interior light if it has one.
If not, door switch as per other fridges.

Thomas Prufer

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Sep 21, 2011, 1:04:07 PM9/21/11
to
On 21 Sep 2011 16:40:15 GMT, Bob Eager <news...@eager.cx> wrote:

>I used an indoor/outdoor thermometer with built in alarm.
>
>Put the 'outside' temperature sensor inside (thin wire stright over the
>door seal) and set it to shriek if the temperature rose past a certain
>point.

Me too. Took a bit of looking to find one with programmable alarm limits. But it
was cheap...


Thomas Prufer

polygonum

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Sep 21, 2011, 2:07:19 PM9/21/11
to

"They" DO make trousers which prevent change spilling out. First pair I
got, I thought someone had mis-stitched across the pocket. And that is
still what it feels like. Things get stuck and, overall, I hate them.

--
Rod

Roger Chapman

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Sep 21, 2011, 2:16:37 PM9/21/11
to
On 21/09/2011 14:56, Tony Bryer wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 11:17:02 GMT Jethro wrote :
>> Grrrr ... about £200 worth of food wasted ....
>>
>> Does anyone know if you can get some sort of doohickey you can leave in
>> the freezer which will sound an alarm if the temperature rises ? I know
>> cold kills batteries, so have no idea how it could work.
>
> Aside from the technical answers, I had this problem with my fridge
> freezer in the UK. When I moved here I read the instructions (shock!)
> with my new one which said to jack the front feet up a little so the
> doors self close. Simple. But you may have done this already.
>
I have my fridge set up that way. (Can't remember why but could easily
be accident rather than design).

Chest freezers might be more inconvenient than uprights but safer for
the absent minded. I left the lid of mine up for more than 12 hours a
few days back and it didn't defrost. Had a lot of ice to hammer off
before I could get the lid to close properly though. Freezer is already
30 years old so I wonder how many years that 12 hours of hard work for
the compressor has knocked off its remaining life.

--
Roger Chapman

Andy Burns

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Sep 21, 2011, 2:32:20 PM9/21/11
to
Jethro wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 12:31:40 +0100, TMC wrote:
>
>> "Jethro"<krazy...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
>
>>> Does anyone know if you can get some sort of doohickey you can leave in
>>> the freezer which will sound an alarm if the temperature rises?
>
>> http://www.fridge-freezer-alarm.co.uk/
>
> I was hoping someone here would say "I use<link>"

Or, "I used $LINK and it saved my bacon" ...

Owain

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Sep 21, 2011, 2:46:32 PM9/21/11
to
On Sep 21, 2:00 pm, Tim Watts wrote:
> In the 70'/80's I made a Heathkit freezer alarm kit. It had a temp sensor
> *and* a door-ajar sensor which was a microswitch on a little bracket, sticky
> padded to the frame and a rubber stick on bump-stop on the door that
> operated the microswitch when closed.

So did I!

It had a resistor in series with one of the sensors so you could tell
the difference between door and temp.

It came in a fetching American Electrical Beige case.

Owain

OG

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Sep 21, 2011, 2:52:14 PM9/21/11
to
On 21/09/2011 17:40, Bob Eager wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 11:17:02 +0000, Jethro wrote:
>
>> Grrrr ... about £200 worth of food wasted ....
>>
>> Does anyone know if you can get some sort of doohickey you can leave in
>> the freezer which will sound an alarm if the temperature rises ? I know
>> cold kills batteries, so have no idea how it could work.
>
> I used an indoor/outdoor thermometer with built in alarm.
>
> Put the 'outside' temperature sensor inside (thin wire stright over the
> door seal) and set it to shriek if the temperature rose past a certain
> point.
>
>

I've got a wireless indoor/outdoor thermometer. When we had a problem
with our 'frost free' freezer not really getting cold enough*, putting
the outdoor unit in the freezer meant we could monitor the temp from
another room.

Works fine and you can tell if the battery has gone flat because the
reading disappears altogether.


*This is a common problem caused when overpacking blocks the airflow
that is necessary for the frost free to work. We were on the verge of
buying a replacement, but as we were away for a weekend we decided as a
last go to use up as much of the contents as possible then left it
switched off for 48 hours (with a towel on the floor).

It's been as good as new since then.


The Medway Handyman

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Sep 21, 2011, 2:59:24 PM9/21/11
to
Why do they make toasters that won't take all brands of bread?

Owain

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Sep 21, 2011, 2:50:48 PM9/21/11
to
On Sep 21, 2:22 pm, Jethro wrote:
> Funny, discussing with the Mrs over lunch, and we decided that a
> *temperature* alarm was probably not the way, since the freezer is
> usually opened last thing at night, for the next days meal, and is the
> other side of the house. So we'd never hear the alarm by the time the
> temperature had gone up ...


What would be most useful is an electromagnet which drops a weight
which pulls the door shut.

Owain

S Viemeister

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Sep 21, 2011, 3:07:03 PM9/21/11
to
Both of Heathkit the reel-to-reel tape recorders I built, were that
colour, but some of the test equipment was a pale grey.

polygonum

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Sep 21, 2011, 3:07:43 PM9/21/11
to
This *is* uk.d-i-y - make your own bread to fit the toaster you have got.
:-)

And if you do so, may I recommend slow, cold rising? In a plastic bag in
the fridge overnight - or longer.

--
Rod

jgharston

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Sep 21, 2011, 4:10:52 PM9/21/11
to
ARWadsworth wrote:

> MM wrote:
> > I don't have a freezer, but since my op last Friday I may have to get
> > one as I can't drive and will need to get food delivered.
> Welcome to the 21st Century.

My granny's great-aunt started off doing home food deliveries:
http://www.botham.co.uk/bakery/bothams-whitby-out-history.html

Welcome to the 19th Century ;)

JGH

The Natural Philosopher

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Sep 21, 2011, 4:20:57 PM9/21/11
to
Jethro wrote:
> Grrrr ... about £200 worth of food wasted ....
>

why? food doesn't instantly tirn into bacteria if the temp goes over 0C...

Re freeze it.

The Natural Philosopher

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Sep 21, 2011, 4:21:23 PM9/21/11
to
So re freeze them.

Grimly Curmudgeon

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Sep 21, 2011, 4:25:06 PM9/21/11
to
On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 11:50:48 -0700 (PDT), Owain
<spuorg...@gowanhill.com> wrote:

>What would be most useful is an electromagnet which drops a weight
>which pulls the door shut.

Or, just a weight on a pulley. No electrics at all.

Owain

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Sep 21, 2011, 5:02:53 PM9/21/11
to
I can see the resemblance.

It's a shame that lemon buns didn't have quite the same appeal as home
delivery pizza.

Owain


dennis@home

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Sep 21, 2011, 5:21:13 PM9/21/11
to


"Grimly Curmudgeon" <grimly...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote in message
news:e0ik77pmdcd2e0blh...@4ax.com...
Just tilt the thing back with a couple of wedges under the front feet and
have self closing doors.

MM

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Sep 21, 2011, 7:33:18 PM9/21/11
to
On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 13:22:50 GMT, Jethro <krazy...@googlemail.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 13:44:26 +0100, MM wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 11:37:34 GMT, Jethro <krazy...@googlemail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 12:31:40 +0100, TMC wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Jethro" <krazy...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:OIjeq.1193$v%1....@newsfe04.ams2...
>>>>> Grrrr ... about £200 worth of food wasted ....
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone know if you can get some sort of doohickey you can leave
>>>>> in the freezer which will sound an alarm if the temperature rises ? I
>>>>> know cold kills batteries, so have no idea how it could work.
>>>>
>>>> google him say
>>>>
>>>> http://www.legendcookshop.co.uk/digital-fridge-and-freezer-
>thermometer-
>>>alarm-25797-0.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.fridge-freezer-alarm.co.uk/
>>>>
>>>> Have never used one but am considering it now that I have seen them
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Tony
>>>
>>>Thanks for that ... obviously I can google, but I was hoping someone
>>>here would say "I use <link>" ... there's one on amazon which got a very
>>>poor review ...
>>
>> I don't have a freezer, but since my op last Friday I may have to get
>> one as I can't drive and will need to get food delivered.
>>
>> So, how long was that freezer door open?
>>
>> MM
>
>Long enough that the burgers in the top drawer had completely
>defrosted ...

Oh, THAT was a pretty long time, deffo.

MM

MM

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Sep 21, 2011, 7:37:30 PM9/21/11
to
I wouldn't risk it. I think if the recommended temperature of -18 deg
is not maintained, some foods are going to make you ill, especially if
they get a little warmer, and are then frozen again when the fault
(open door/lid) is detected. That way food poisoning lies.

MM

MM

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Sep 21, 2011, 7:40:13 PM9/21/11
to

No! No! No! You'll get food poisoning, practically guaranteed. And
possibly a VERY severe kind, too. DON'T DO IT! NEVER refreeze food
that's partially defrosted. You're just asking for trouble, especially
if the food is fed to children whose immune systems are not fully
developed (especially nowadays when they are not allowed to play
outside and thus do not get their usual intake of worms, soil etc).

MM

MM

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Sep 21, 2011, 7:42:36 PM9/21/11
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On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 16:01:28 +0100, Kevin Poole
<2011OMIT_T...@mainbeam.co.uk> wrote:

>Don't be a wuss.

Oh! Oh! The drugs manufacturers are really going to like you! A
walking wallet -- with botulism, gorgeous! (Not walking for very
long, though.)

MM

Grimly Curmudgeon

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Sep 21, 2011, 7:55:05 PM9/21/11
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On Wed, 21 Sep 2011 22:21:13 +0100, "dennis@home"
<den...@killspam.kickass.net> wrote:

>>>What would be most useful is an electromagnet which drops a weight
>>>which pulls the door shut.
>>
>> Or, just a weight on a pulley. No electrics at all.
>
>Just tilt the thing back with a couple of wedges under the front feet and
>have self closing doors.

A spring-loaded boxing glove mounted in a cannon barrel on the far
side of the room.

PeterC

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Sep 22, 2011, 3:31:05 AM9/22/11
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No use for this OP's problem then.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Matty F

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Sep 22, 2011, 4:18:25 AM9/22/11
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On Sep 22, 1:56 am, Tony Bryer <t...@delme.greentram.com> wrote:

> Aside from the technical answers, I had this problem with my fridge
> freezer in the UK. When I moved here I read the instructions (shock!)
> with my new one which said to jack the front feet up a little so the
> doors self close. Simple. But you may have done this already.

That won't work with my fridge/freezer. The freezer has a drawer, and
too much friction to close it by tilting.
The fridge has a handle on both sides and can be opened either side.
The mechanical device to lock the hinges on the side that is not being
opened has too much friction to close by tilting.
So, I propose having a couple of reed switches connected to a 12 volt
light that can't be missed. Another light will show if the front and
back doors and garage are not locked.

Dave Liquorice

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Sep 22, 2011, 4:18:19 AM9/22/11
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On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 00:37:30 +0100, MM wrote:

>> Certainly colder than when it gets put in after the hours journey
back
>> from the supermarket.
>
> I wouldn't risk it. I think if the recommended temperature of -18 deg
> is not maintained, some foods are going to make you ill, especially if
> they get a little warmer, and are then frozen again when the fault
> (open door/lid) is detected. That way food poisoning lies.

Bacteria really don't reproduce very fast at all at fridge
temperatures (+4C or there abouts) that's why fridges keep stuff
fresh for days. The food in a working freezer with the door left ajar
for a few hours is going to get relatively "warm", say -5 to -10C but
not very likely to get above 0C.

Of course stuff will also be cooked properly. Most cases of food
poisioning are down to a failing in the cooking not killing off the
bacteria. A few cases of food poisioning are down to toxins created
by bacteria that proper cooking won't do much about but those are few
and far between compared to ingesting live bacteria.

--
Cheers
Dave.



Mike Barnes

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Sep 22, 2011, 4:47:51 AM9/22/11
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Grimly Curmudgeon <grimly...@REMOVEgmail.com>:
How big would that weight need to be to close a door against a full
drawer that hadn't quite been pushed fully home?

--
Mike Barnes

Mike Barnes

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Sep 22, 2011, 4:50:15 AM9/22/11
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The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid>:
>Jethro wrote:
>> Grrrr ... about £200 worth of food wasted ....
>>
>
>why? food doesn't instantly tirn into bacteria if the temp goes over 0C...
>
>Re freeze it.

Don't do that. Cook what you can use and give the rest away to the
neighbours, with instructions that it should be cooked and eaten
promptly.

--
Mike Barnes

Kevin Poole

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Sep 22, 2011, 5:18:36 AM9/22/11
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How many cases of botulism are there each year in the UK caused by
refreezing food that had been allowed to thaw (but had not even been at
room temperature for long - my caveat that you snipped)?

Order of magnitude will suffice.



--
Kevin Poole

www.GymRatZ.co.uk

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Sep 22, 2011, 5:30:11 AM9/22/11
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On 21/09/2011 13:44, MM wrote:

> I don't have a freezer, but since my op last Friday I may have to get
> one as I can't drive and will need to get food delivered.

Our freezer has an "annoyance beep" built in when the door is open for
more than about 20 seconds. Actually rather good as it increases the
"load speed" of getting fresh stuff in and the door shut again.

--
http://www.GymRatZ.co.uk - Fitness+Gym Equipment.
http://www.bodysolid-gym-equipment.co.uk
http://www.trade-price-supplements.co.uk
http://www.water-rower.co.uk

www.GymRatZ.co.uk

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Sep 22, 2011, 5:41:59 AM9/22/11
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On 21/09/2011 21:21, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>> Long enough that the burgers in the top drawer had completely
>> defrosted ...
> So re freeze them.

:¬)
That'd be my answer too.
The freezer would still have been trying to keep cold.

Far more important is that the food is cooked right through. Properly!
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/questions/FAQ_freezing.html#5

RobertL

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Sep 22, 2011, 5:54:33 AM9/22/11
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On Sep 22, 9:18 am, "Dave Liquorice"


Surely the important thing is that bacterial growth on raw meat is not
dangerous as long as it it properly cooked after thawing. it's
bacterial growth on cooked food that leaves the toxins that are then
not removed by re-cooking. After all, game meat is left to go rotten
before being cooked.

Robert

Message has been deleted

dennis@home

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Sep 22, 2011, 6:09:17 AM9/22/11
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"Grimly Curmudgeon" <grimly...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote in message
news:r9uk77htnf6q8k1i3...@4ax.com...
Too complicated.
An air cannon would do the job without the glove.

dennis@home

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Sep 22, 2011, 6:10:18 AM9/22/11
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"PeterC" <giraffe...@homecall.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1vtsnm829p28u.1...@40tude.net...


>> A lot of modern freezers have alarms built in, they beep loudly if the
>> temp drops by a certain amount.
>
> No use for this OP's problem then.

No use at all, the temp rises.

dennis@home

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Sep 22, 2011, 6:40:20 AM9/22/11
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"RobertL" <rober...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b2d25b73-c201-4005...@u15g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...


> Surely the important thing is that bacterial growth on raw meat is not
> dangerous as long as it it properly cooked after thawing. it's
> bacterial growth on cooked food that leaves the toxins that are then
> not removed by re-cooking. After all, game meat is left to go rotten
> before being cooked.

The toxins aren't removed by cooking.
The bacteria may be if its cooked enough.

Any food that is left with the wrong bacteria/mould on it will leave toxins
in the food.

Not all bacteria/moulds leave dangerous toxins (e.g. blue cheese. Parma ham)
so some food is safe to eat while being "rotten".

Martin Bonner

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Sep 22, 2011, 9:07:47 AM9/22/11
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Why? As the man said "food doesn't instantly turn into bacteria if

Reentrant

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Sep 22, 2011, 12:41:27 PM9/22/11
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On 21/09/2011 12:31, TMC wrote:

> http://www.fridge-freezer-alarm.co.uk/

We have the one with the variable time-delay and it works perfectly. It
originally came with a loud but quite high-pitched piezo beeper; fine
for me but the missus has high-frequency hearing loss and she couldn't
hear it. I contacted the seller and he offered to replace the beeper
with an equally loud low-pitch buzzer at no charge.

I suspect you could make one with a few components (reed switch, timer,
oscillator, beeper, case and magnet) for a couple of pounds.


--
Reentrant

Rick Hughes

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Sep 22, 2011, 3:25:14 PM9/22/11
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"MM" <kyli...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:83tk77ls34igv0oca...@4ax.com...

> I wouldn't risk it. I think if the recommended temperature of -18 deg
> is not maintained, some foods are going to make you ill, especially if
> they get a little warmer, and are then frozen again when the fault
> (open door/lid) is detected. That way food poisoning lies.

That is what cooking is for :-) it tends to kill bacteria.


My Freezer door left open (slightly) by one of my kids ... much of the front
products 'soft'
Checked ... all was covered by House contents policy .... so replaced the
lot.

The Natural Philosopher

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Sep 22, 2011, 3:34:34 PM9/22/11
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What a waste of money
I always refreeze it unless its gone mouldy.

Mr Pounder

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Sep 22, 2011, 4:08:30 PM9/22/11
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"Jethro" <krazy...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:OIjeq.1193$v%1....@newsfe04.ams2...
> Grrrr ... about £200 worth of food wasted ....
>
> Does anyone know if you can get some sort of doohickey you can leave in
> the freezer which will sound an alarm if the temperature rises ? I know
> cold kills batteries, so have no idea how it could work.

Okay, I have waded through most of this silly stuff.
What is so difficult about closing a door ffs?


Dave Liquorice

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Sep 22, 2011, 4:44:33 PM9/22/11
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On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 21:08:30 +0100, Mr Pounder wrote:

> What is so difficult about closing a door ffs?

Nothing but just occasionally it will get jammed open a tad. Normal
cause is a drawer not fully home. TBH when oursgot jammed open last
week I don't know what was keeping it open to start with. When I
found it frozen melt and ice build up was doing a grand job, I guess
that may have been the orginal cause but I doubt it.

--
Cheers
Dave.



Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

polygonum

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Sep 22, 2011, 5:50:08 PM9/22/11
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On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 22:41:08 +0100, Tim Streater
<timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:

> In article <qJGdnZHXX-sBFubT...@bt.com>,
> "Rick Hughes" <rick_hughes@remove_me.btconnect.com> wrote:
>
>> "MM" <kyli...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:83tk77ls34igv0oca...@4ax.com...
>> > I wouldn't risk it. I think if the recommended temperature of -18 deg
>> > is not maintained, some foods are going to make you ill, especially if
>> > they get a little warmer, and are then frozen again when the fault
>> > (open door/lid) is detected. That way food poisoning lies.
>> That is what cooking is for :-) it tends to kill bacteria.
>
> Depends on the temperature, some will require 100C to die DIE *DIE* !!!
>
> In addition, such cooking won't nesser-celeryily deal with the toxins
> already created by those bacteria.
>
> You may want to read about food poisoning in Winky-pedia, although if
> you do that could solve the problem as you'll never want to eat again.
>

This says quite a lot:

"Histamine is not destroyed by normal cooking temperatures, so even
properly cooked fish can be affected. Histamine is a mediator of allergic
reactions, so the symptoms produced are those one would expect to see in
severe allergic responses. The suspect toxin is an elevated level of
histamine generated by bacterial breakdown of histidine in the muscle
protein through elevated production of the enzyme histidine decarboxylase.
This natural spoilage process is thought to release additional
by-products, which cause the toxic effect. Freezing, cooking, smoking,
curing and/or canning do not destroy the potential toxins."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scombroid_food_poisoning

--
Rod

The Natural Philosopher

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Sep 22, 2011, 10:56:39 PM9/22/11
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Tim Streater wrote:
> In article <j5g2ka$96c$2...@news.albasani.net>,

> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> What a waste of money. I always refreeze it unless its gone mouldy.
>
> Mmmm. When I was a kid the only appliance of any sort that we had was a
> gas cooker. Food was stored in the larder and not very well at that. So
> my childhood recollection is not measles, chickenpox, etc, but of one
> stomach upset after another from eating food that was not fit for
> consumption.
>
Indeed. I remember the same. However the food that gives me the shits
these days is perfectly fresh. Usually fruit..


Frankly if something smells really bad I don't eat it, but stiff that's
been defrosted for half a day? forget it The bugs have only just landed
not even started to breed.

Tim Watts

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Sep 23, 2011, 2:38:15 AM9/23/11
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Don't everlook the bugs that are already there. Particularly in mince, where
they are distributed through the product and a certain amount of breeding
has already taken place in the mincing process due to the heat produced by
the machine.


--
Tim Watts

Grimly Curmudgeon

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Sep 23, 2011, 7:13:59 AM9/23/11