Electric/Electronic

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fred

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May 25, 2022, 6:38:27 AMMay 25
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Is it just me but does it upset anyone else when something that functions elctrically is called elctronic?

Nick Odell

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May 25, 2022, 6:55:43 AMMay 25
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On Wed, 25 May 2022 03:38:24 -0700 (PDT), fred <tpmc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Is it just me but does it upset anyone else when something that functions elctrically is called elctronic?

INJY

N.

Max Demian

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May 25, 2022, 7:21:19 AMMay 25
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On 25/05/2022 11:38, fred wrote:

> Is it just me but does it upset anyone else when something that functions elctrically is called elctronic?

Actually wires conduct electronically. Valves lead to the meaning of
electronic as involving free electrons. Transistors have "holes" as well
as electrons (but I don't understand them). Electrolysis is
non-electronic as it involves positive and negative ions so batteries
are non-electronic apart from the terminals.

I think some kettles were sold as electronic as they had a chip that did
something or other, and, of course, modern toasters use a 555 or similar
chip for timing so they can be called electronic.

--
Max Demian

Bob Eager

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May 25, 2022, 7:46:28 AMMay 25
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On Wed, 25 May 2022 12:21:01 +0100, Max Demian wrote:

> I think some kettles were sold as electronic as they had a chip that did
> something or other, and, of course, modern toasters use a 555 or similar
> chip for timing so they can be called electronic.

Our toaster (Dualit) is clockwork!



--
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wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
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Fredxx

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May 25, 2022, 7:57:10 AMMay 25
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On 25/05/2022 11:38, fred wrote:
> Is it just me but does it upset anyone else when something that functions elctrically is called elctronic?

One definition of electronic:
"relating to electrons".

So anything conveying a current, or potential is "electronic".

Does it matter?

Clive Arthur

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May 25, 2022, 9:20:17 AMMay 25
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Most of chemistry is down to electrons.

--
Cheers
Clive

Dave Plowman (News)

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May 25, 2022, 9:51:19 AMMay 25
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In article <jf6j8g...@mid.individual.net>,
Bob Eager <news...@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Wed, 25 May 2022 12:21:01 +0100, Max Demian wrote:

> > I think some kettles were sold as electronic as they had a chip that did
> > something or other, and, of course, modern toasters use a 555 or similar
> > chip for timing so they can be called electronic.

> Our toaster (Dualit) is clockwork!

How does it produce the heat to toast the bread?

I have heard of clockwork radios, though. ;-)

--
*And the cardiologist' s diet: - If it tastes good spit it out.

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

SH

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May 25, 2022, 10:12:03 AMMay 25
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On 25/05/2022 14:45, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <jf6j8g...@mid.individual.net>,
> Bob Eager <news...@eager.cx> wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 May 2022 12:21:01 +0100, Max Demian wrote:
>
>>> I think some kettles were sold as electronic as they had a chip that did
>>> something or other, and, of course, modern toasters use a 555 or similar
>>> chip for timing so they can be called electronic.
>
>> Our toaster (Dualit) is clockwork!
>
> How does it produce the heat to toast the bread?
>
> I have heard of clockwork radios, though. ;-)

Is this a wind up? :-)

Rod Speed

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May 25, 2022, 2:07:52 PMMay 25
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On Wed, 25 May 2022 23:20:12 +1000, Clive Arthur <cl...@nowaytoday.co.uk>
wrote:
Not really, it is mostly down to the number of protons varying between
atoms.

Peeler

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May 25, 2022, 2:17:36 PMMay 25
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On Thu, 26 May 2022 04:07:44 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
FredXX to Rodent Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shipped the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID: <plbf76$gfl$1...@dont-email.me>

Fredxx

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May 25, 2022, 2:27:09 PMMay 25
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Most chemists know that material properties are down the quantised
energy states of electrons.

Protons, apart from their number, exert very little influence on
material properties.

Tim Lamb

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May 25, 2022, 2:57:57 PMMay 25
to
In message <jf6j8g...@mid.individual.net>, Bob Eager
<news...@eager.cx> writes
>On Wed, 25 May 2022 12:21:01 +0100, Max Demian wrote:
>
>> I think some kettles were sold as electronic as they had a chip that did
>> something or other, and, of course, modern toasters use a 555 or similar
>> chip for timing so they can be called electronic.
>
>Our toaster (Dualit) is clockwork!

Ours has begun to run slow intermittently:-( Brown toast often black!

--
Tim Lamb

Rod Speed

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May 25, 2022, 3:07:08 PMMay 25
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On Thu, 26 May 2022 04:27:06 +1000, Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote:

> On 25/05/2022 19:07, Rod Speed wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 May 2022 23:20:12 +1000, Clive Arthur
>> <cl...@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 25/05/2022 12:57, Fredxx wrote:
>>>> On 25/05/2022 11:38, fred wrote:
>>>>> Is it just me but does it upset anyone else when something that
>>>>> functions elctrically is called elctronic?
>>>> One definition of electronic:
>>>> "relating to electrons".
>>>> So anything conveying a current, or potential is "electronic".
>>>> Does it matter?
>>>
>>>
>>> Most of chemistry is down to electrons.
>> Not really, it is mostly down to the number of protons varying between
>> atoms.
>
> Most chemists know that material properties are down the quantised
> energy states of electrons.

Any chemist who isn't actually brain dead knows that it is the type
of atoms involved that determines what works and what doesnt.

> Protons, apart from their number,

There is no apart from, it's the number of protons
that determines what type of atom it is.;

> exert very little influence on material properties.

Even sillier and more pig ignorant than you usually manage and that's
saying something.

Peeler

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May 25, 2022, 3:25:36 PMMay 25
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On Thu, 26 May 2022 05:07:00 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
MrTu...@down.the.farm about senile Rodent Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID: <ps10v9$uo2$1...@gioia.aioe.org>

williamwright

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May 25, 2022, 3:34:31 PMMay 25
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On 25/05/2022 20:07, Rod Speed wrote:
> Any chemist who isn't actually brain dead knows

Only one exchange into the discussion and you resort to personal abuse.

Bill

Rod Speed

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May 25, 2022, 3:52:37 PMMay 25
to
williamwright <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>> Any chemist who isn't actually brain dead knows

> Only one exchange into the discussion and you resort to personal abuse.

That isn't personal abuse, fuckwit.

Rod Speed

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May 25, 2022, 3:54:33 PMMay 25
to
williamwright <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>> Any chemist who isn't actually brain dead knows

> Only one exchange into the discussion and you resort to personal abuse.

This is your first 'contribution' to this thread and it is personal abuse.

Animal

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May 25, 2022, 4:20:10 PMMay 25
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They are. You pay silly money for a mechanism that runs a very short time. If you do buy one, be sure to get the solar panel version, crank only just isn't worth using.

Peeler

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May 25, 2022, 5:16:53 PMMay 25
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"Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."

https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

--
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID: <f9056fe6-1479-40ff...@googlegroups.com>

Bob Eager

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May 25, 2022, 7:11:19 PMMay 25
to
On Wed, 25 May 2022 13:20:07 -0700, Animal wrote:

>> > I have heard of clockwork radios, though. ;-)
>> Is this a wind up?
>
> They are. You pay silly money for a mechanism that runs a very short
> time.
> If you do buy one, be sure to get the solar panel version, crank only
> just isn't worth using.

Mine used to run for an hour.

These days I have a Bosch workman's radio that uses the 18v rechargeables.

williamwright

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May 25, 2022, 11:35:20 PMMay 25
to
On 25/05/2022 20:54, Rod Speed wrote:
> This is your first 'contribution' to this thread and it is personal abuse.

No it isn't. It's not abuse. Abuse is calling someone a fuckwit or
whatever, like you do.

Bill

Rod Speed

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May 26, 2022, 12:03:04 AMMay 26
to
williamwright <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>> This is your first 'contribution' to this thread and it is personal
>> abuse.

> No it isn't. It's not abuse.

Corse it is.

> Abuse is calling someone a fuckwit

That is calling a spade a spade and a fuckwit a fuckwit, fuckwit.

Peeler

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May 26, 2022, 4:43:23 AMMay 26
to
"Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."

https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

--
Tim+ about trolling Rodent Speed:
He is by far the most persistent troll who seems to be able to get under the
skin of folk who really should know better. Since when did arguing with a
troll ever achieve anything (beyond giving the troll pleasure)?
MID: <1421057667.659518815.743...@news.individual.net>

Fredxx

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May 26, 2022, 6:09:33 AMMay 26
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On 25/05/2022 20:54, Rod Speed wrote:
You seem to conflate with abuse you give, and abuse you receive. At no
time in this thread has Bill directed any abuse towards you.

You seem to have big chip on your shoulder or perhaps a snowflake after
all. Best grow some.

jkn

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May 26, 2022, 6:18:39 AMMay 26
to
You can (and should) remove, clean and regrease the timer.
It's not a difficult job; There are instructions on the interweb.
I am a bit twitchy about our Dualit now; the timer 'stuck' and
the heat damaged a cupboard door (which admittedly it
shouldn't really be situated under).



Max Demian

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May 26, 2022, 6:46:05 AMMay 26
to
On 25/05/2022 12:46, Bob Eager wrote:
> On Wed, 25 May 2022 12:21:01 +0100, Max Demian wrote:
>
>> I think some kettles were sold as electronic as they had a chip that did
>> something or other, and, of course, modern toasters use a 555 or similar
>> chip for timing so they can be called electronic.
>
> Our toaster (Dualit) is clockwork!

I used to have one which had a thermal timer based on the heating and
cooling of a bimetallic strip. This had the advantage that if you put a
second slice in after the first it toasted the second for a shorter time
- needed as the element is already hot.

I bought it for £10.50 in 1975 and it lasted until 2005 or so. Replaced
with one for £5 (electronic timer) which I still have.

--
Max Demian

Clive Arthur

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May 26, 2022, 7:38:19 AMMay 26
to
On 25/05/2022 19:07, Rod Speed wrote:
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to
remove all doubt."

--
Cheers
Clive

Tim Lamb

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May 26, 2022, 8:07:37 AMMay 26
to
In message <d25412d4-bf5c-468b...@googlegroups.com>, jkn
<jkn...@nicorp.f9.co.uk> writes
OK Ta. I've been meaning to open it up but lacking confidence it is
fixable:-)

--
Tim Lamb

Rod Speed

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May 26, 2022, 3:22:17 PMMay 26
to
Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> williamwright <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>> Any chemist who isn't actually brain dead knows

>>> Only one exchange into the discussion and you resort to personal abuse.

>> This is your first 'contribution' to this thread and it is personal
>> abuse.

> You seem to conflate with abuse you give, and abuse you receive.

Even you can't actually be THAT stupid.

> At no time in this thread has Bill directed any abuse towards you.

It's still there in the quoting, fuckwit.

<reams of your shit any 3 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs>

Rod Speed

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May 26, 2022, 3:35:10 PMMay 26
to
On Thu, 26 May 2022 21:38:13 +1000, Clive Arthur <cl...@nowaytoday.co.uk>
wrote:

> On 25/05/2022 19:07, Rod Speed wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 May 2022 23:20:12 +1000, Clive Arthur
>> <cl...@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 25/05/2022 12:57, Fredxx wrote:
>>>> On 25/05/2022 11:38, fred wrote:
>>>>> Is it just me but does it upset anyone else when something that
>>>>> functions elctrically is called elctronic?
>>>> One definition of electronic:
>>>> "relating to electrons".
>>>> So anything conveying a current, or potential is "electronic".
>>>> Does it matter?
>>>
>>>
>>> Most of chemistry is down to electrons.
>> Not really, it is mostly down to the number of protons varying between
>> atoms.
>
> "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to
> remove all doubt."

Yep, you certainly should have remained silent.

Peeler

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May 26, 2022, 4:18:21 PMMay 26
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On Fri, 27 May 2022 05:22:10 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Marland addressing senile Rodent's pathological trolling:
"That’s because so much piss and shite emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a Wanker."
Message-ID: <gm2h57...@mid.individual.net>

Peeler

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May 26, 2022, 4:18:41 PMMay 26
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On Fri, 27 May 2022 05:35:01 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Peter Able

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May 26, 2022, 4:52:14 PMMay 26
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On 25/05/2022 10:38, fred wrote:
> Is it just me but does it upset anyone else when something that functions elctrically is called elctronic?

Your question begs another...

What are the briefest, least ambiguous definitions of Electrical and
Electronic.

PA BSc(Hons) Electrical and Electronic Engineering. 50+ years, and
still ready hear your ideas ;)

Rod Speed

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May 26, 2022, 5:06:32 PMMay 26
to
Peter Able <st...@home.com> wrote
> fred wrote
\
>> Is it just me but does it upset anyone else when something that
>> functions elctrically is called elctronic?

> Your question begs another...

> What are the briefest, least ambiguous definitions of Electrical and
> Electronic.

Electrical, just wires and switches and sometimes relays.

Electronic adds valves or nowdays transistors/triacs etc.

Peeler

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May 26, 2022, 5:18:10 PMMay 26
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On Fri, 27 May 2022 07:06:24 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Fredxx

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May 27, 2022, 5:31:16 AMMay 27
to
On 26/05/2022 20:22, Rod Speed wrote:
> Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> williamwright <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>
>>>>> Any chemist who isn't actually brain dead knows
>
>>>> Only one exchange into the discussion and you resort to personal abuse.
>
>>>  This is your first 'contribution' to this thread and it is personal
>>> abuse.
>
>> You seem to conflate with abuse you give, and abuse you receive.
>
> Even you can't actually be THAT stupid.

No I'm not, but I'm not the one conflating, "Only one exchange into the
discussion and you resort to personal abuse" with abuse.

>> At no  time in this thread has Bill directed any abuse towards you.
>
> It's still there in the quoting, fuckwit.

It certainly is.

> <reams of your shit any 3 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
> belongs>

A sign of another lost argument.

Fredxx

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May 27, 2022, 5:32:14 AMMay 27
to
Except Clive doesn't look a fool. Whereas we know you are.

Fredxx

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May 27, 2022, 5:38:06 AMMay 27
to
In my younger days I treated DC and low frequency <=60Hz power
installations as electrical, and HF >60Hz where the intentional is not
electrical supply to be electronic. Therefore a Tesla coil would be
electronic, but the power transmission across the channel from France to
the UK would be electrical. You might want to call the apparatus at each
end of the underwater cable, Power Electronics.

YMMV

In short it doesn't really matter, in much the same way a solid state TV
could still have a massive CRT in it.

The Natural Philosopher

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May 27, 2022, 6:03:45 AMMay 27
to
On 27/05/2022 10:38, Fredxx wrote:
> On 26/05/2022 21:52, Peter Able wrote:
>> On 25/05/2022 10:38, fred wrote:
>>> Is it just me but does it upset anyone else when something that
>>> functions elctrically is called elctronic?
>>
>> Your question begs another...
>>
>> What are the briefest, least ambiguous definitions of Electrical and
>> Electronic.
>>
>> PA  BSc(Hons) Electrical and Electronic Engineering.  50+ years, and
>> still ready hear your ideas ;)
>
> In my younger days I treated DC and low frequency <=60Hz power
> installations as electrical,

Bang goes my valve voltmeter then...

and HF >60Hz where the intentional is not
> electrical supply to be electronic. Therefore a Tesla coil would be
> electronic, but the power transmission across the channel from France to
> the UK would be electrical. You might want to call the apparatus at each
> end of the underwater cable, Power Electronics.
>
> YMMV
>
> In short it doesn't really matter, in much the same way a solid state TV
> could still have a massive CRT in it.


--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

Rod Speed

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May 27, 2022, 7:09:09 AMMay 27
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Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Fredxx <fre...@spam.uk> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> williamwright <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>>>> Any chemist who isn't actually brain dead knows

>>>>> Only one exchange into the discussion and you resort to personal
>>>>> abuse.

>>>> This is your first 'contribution' to this thread and it is personal
>>>> abuse.

>>> You seem to conflate with abuse you give, and abuse you receive.

>> Even you can't actually be THAT stupid.
>
> No I'm not, but I'm not the one conflating, "Only one exchangeinto the
> discussion and you resort to personal abuse" with abuse.

No one except you is conflating anything.

Rod Speed

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May 27, 2022, 7:10:40 AMMay 27
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Peeler

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May 27, 2022, 12:05:29 PMMay 27
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On Fri, 27 May 2022 21:08:58 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Sqwertz to Rodent Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID: <ev1p6ml7ywd5$.d...@sqwertz.com>

Peeler

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May 27, 2022, 12:05:49 PMMay 27
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On Fri, 27 May 2022 21:10:30 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Tim Lamb

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May 28, 2022, 2:52:23 PMMay 28
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In message <xmTXZfLA...@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk>, Tim Lamb
<t...@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> writes
Turns out my Duallit timer is not user serviceable:-(
The cover plate is riveted on with plastic pins.
I have lubricated the shaft and reassembled.
Mi7 replacement £11.37 del. Wednesday.
>

--
Tim Lamb

jkn

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May 28, 2022, 3:24:07 PMMay 28
to
"Riveted on with plastic pins" sounds get-roundable ;-)

I think mine had a large nut, like a potentiometer nut, and then
maybe some smaller screws, or clips as part of the plastic?

But yeah, replacements are not super-exorbitant.
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