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Musty smell in rooms.
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sweetheart
Jun 23, 2012, 2:49:18 AM6/23/12
to
I was just wondering if posters might help me isolate the cause of a musty
old house smell I have. I know its supposed to come from damp and mould.
I did have a general problem with this . In the kitchen I have changed the
window and door ( to new double glazed plastic from wooden frames and double
glazed) .This seems to have cured the kitchen- including the condensation
and the mould I did have in there is going away ( and I haven't decorated
there yet)
However, the smell persists in the house and I have cleaned, chucked out
old furniture, painted and dried out stuff but still the smell continues.
Its not in my hall. Its not in the dining room and sitting rooms. I have
established this ( again they have all been newly double glazed as it
happens).
The smell is mainly in the bedrooms at the front of the house ( bungalow). I
cant cope in my own bedroom ( which is worse) OH doesn't seem bothered by
it but I have a weak chest and it is making me a bit ill.
There is no mould I can see. I have cleaned everything. I have changed
everything. I think the room is damp ( air), it feels it to me and I know
the window gets condensation ( it is an old wooden frame double glazed unit)
. If we have dry weather it does seem to ease a bit - it never goes way
unless I put the heating on all the time.
I don't know what more to do. Question really - is this coming from the
window frame or window? Or am I looking for something else?
The other bedroom has similar ( but less pronounced) problems. Again no
mould I can see. All freshly done out by me over the last few months.
Everything old got rid of.
Can anyone suggest a way forward. Again I know the room suffers from
condensation. Cant seem to cure it ( even with a dehumidifier) Nice dry days
eases the problem.
The bungalow is a brick and block built 1958 bungalow in Cornwall ( wet and
windy at the moment). The rooms are east and North east facing.
Thanks for any advice on this.
( by the way I sorted the wall on the corner in the kitchen where it got
chipped off. - thanks for the instructions)
old house smell I have. I know its supposed to come from damp and mould.
I did have a general problem with this . In the kitchen I have changed the
window and door ( to new double glazed plastic from wooden frames and double
glazed) .This seems to have cured the kitchen- including the condensation
and the mould I did have in there is going away ( and I haven't decorated
there yet)
However, the smell persists in the house and I have cleaned, chucked out
old furniture, painted and dried out stuff but still the smell continues.
Its not in my hall. Its not in the dining room and sitting rooms. I have
established this ( again they have all been newly double glazed as it
happens).
The smell is mainly in the bedrooms at the front of the house ( bungalow). I
cant cope in my own bedroom ( which is worse) OH doesn't seem bothered by
it but I have a weak chest and it is making me a bit ill.
There is no mould I can see. I have cleaned everything. I have changed
everything. I think the room is damp ( air), it feels it to me and I know
the window gets condensation ( it is an old wooden frame double glazed unit)
. If we have dry weather it does seem to ease a bit - it never goes way
unless I put the heating on all the time.
I don't know what more to do. Question really - is this coming from the
window frame or window? Or am I looking for something else?
The other bedroom has similar ( but less pronounced) problems. Again no
mould I can see. All freshly done out by me over the last few months.
Everything old got rid of.
Can anyone suggest a way forward. Again I know the room suffers from
condensation. Cant seem to cure it ( even with a dehumidifier) Nice dry days
eases the problem.
The bungalow is a brick and block built 1958 bungalow in Cornwall ( wet and
windy at the moment). The rooms are east and North east facing.
Thanks for any advice on this.
( by the way I sorted the wall on the corner in the kitchen where it got
chipped off. - thanks for the instructions)
Brian Gaff
Jun 23, 2012, 4:06:41 AM6/23/12
to
Under the floor perhaps, leaking pipe or roof some place?
Brian
--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"sweetheart" <hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:w5qdnTVcq7xw-3jS...@bt.com...
Brian
--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"sweetheart" <hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:w5qdnTVcq7xw-3jS...@bt.com...
NT
Jun 23, 2012, 5:07:48 AM6/23/12
to
rainwatergoods arenot damaged or blocked, any vents arent blocked.
Look for human made sources of damp, mainly steamy cooking, showers
without ventilation, indoor clothes drying. Check the loft for wetness
anywhere. Inspect all plumbing. If radiators need bleeding repeatedly
there's a leak in the CH somewhere.
I presume you mean a real dehumidifier, not a box of lime.
NT
Peter Parry
Jun 23, 2012, 8:36:45 AM6/23/12
to
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:49:18 +0100, "sweetheart" <hotmail.com> wrote:
>I was just wondering if posters might help me isolate the cause of a musty
>old house smell I have. I know its supposed to come from damp and mould.
>I did have a general problem with this . In the kitchen I have changed the
>window and door ( to new double glazed plastic from wooden frames and double
>glazed) .This seems to have cured the kitchen- including the condensation
>and the mould I did have in there is going away ( and I haven't decorated
>there yet)
It hasn't cured the condensation problem - just moved it somewhere
>I was just wondering if posters might help me isolate the cause of a musty
>old house smell I have. I know its supposed to come from damp and mould.
>I did have a general problem with this . In the kitchen I have changed the
>window and door ( to new double glazed plastic from wooden frames and double
>glazed) .This seems to have cured the kitchen- including the condensation
>and the mould I did have in there is going away ( and I haven't decorated
>there yet)
else.
The problem is one, by the sound of it, of poor ventilation. By
double glazing some windows they become warmer on the inside and water
vapour no longer condenses on them. However, the vapour is still in
the air and will simply condense on other cold surfaces in other
rooms.
The only cure is to reduce the level of water vapour by reducing
moisture getting into the air in the first place and improving
ventilation.
> However, the smell persists in the house and I have cleaned, chucked out
>old furniture, painted and dried out stuff but still the smell continues.
>Its not in my hall. Its not in the dining room and sitting rooms. I have
>established this ( again they have all been newly double glazed as it
>happens).
the point at which condensation occurs so those rooms stay dry and the
moisture condenses out in the cooler non-double glazed ones. The
easterly facing rooms will also have the coolest walls encouraging
more condensation.
>I don't know what more to do. Question really - is this coming from the
>window frame or window? Or am I looking for something else?
amount of moisture being generated within the house by using cooker
hoods venting to outside or a kitchen extractor fan when
cooking/washing. Use bathroom extraction fans with humidity controls
or running for 30 minutes after a shower or bath. Don't dry clothes
inside the house, don't use a condenser tumble dryer but one venting
to outside.
Mr Pounder
Jun 23, 2012, 9:02:59 AM6/23/12
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The smell went away when the carpets were ripped up.
>
sweetheart
Jun 23, 2012, 9:47:28 AM6/23/12
to
"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
news:jl6bu7tll0ut61j4f...@4ax.com...
suggested that part of my problem might be the bubble wrap effect - too much
insulation.
I cant see how I can reduce condesation further. I dont cook except for an
hour and a hallf on Sundays. I am not in during the week so the kitchen isnt
used. We dont have baths - we use the shower and that only runs for 5 mins
or less.
The bathroom ( which is the least steamy in the house has windows open all
the time)
The cooker is electric ( no hood).
I wash once a week and use the tumble dryer ( condenser dryer and does not
cause humidity in the kitchen ) once a week.
If it is possible I dry outside, never indoors.
But I still get tons of condensation on the windows.
I have checked the roof - no leaks. I have checked the gutters and drains ,
no leaks. I checked the floorboards - dry as a bone.
We do not have radiators ( all electric because there is no gas to the
village) . The problem is worse when I turn off the heating.
If I ran the heating all year ( I did a few years back before OH became an
eco warrior!) I found that I didnt have any problems at all ( and no smell)
I still cannot find it unless it is just too airtight to suffocation?
I wondered whether the constant wetting by condensation on the windows and
drying out of the wooden window frames was causing the smell?
sweetheart
Jun 23, 2012, 9:51:28 AM6/23/12
to
"NT" <meow...@care2.com> wrote in message
news:45216420-c87b-4a4b...@n16g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 23, 7:49 am, "sweetheart" <hotmail.com> wrote:
I presume you mean a real dehumidifier, not a box of lime.
Yes and it does seem to permanently on to have any effect.
I presume you mean a real dehumidifier, not a box of lime.
NT
sweetheart
Jun 23, 2012, 9:54:28 AM6/23/12
to
"Mr Pounder" <MrPo...@RationalThought.com> wrote in message
news:js4eq6$4ji$1...@dont-email.me...
> When I bought this place nearly four years ago it stank to high heaven.
> The smell went away when the carpets were ripped up.
>
Carpets in the one room are about 15 years old. In the other ( the worst
> The smell went away when the carpets were ripped up.
>
room) I have taken up the carpet and its bare floorboards now.
How about the walls? Could it be the wallpaper? I havent changed that ( its
woodchip). I did re paint it though about six years ago
Mr Pounder
Jun 23, 2012, 9:59:21 AM6/23/12
to
news:7bOdnc7B25MOV3jS...@bt.com...
I can't see it being the wallpaper.
>
>
charles
Jun 23, 2012, 10:19:28 AM6/23/12
to
In article <nOadnRtKxqptVXjS...@bt.com>, sweetheart
Stop breathing. You exhale a fair bit of moisture.
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
Peter Parry
Jun 23, 2012, 11:27:18 AM6/23/12
to
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:47:28 +0100, "sweetheart" <hotmail.com> wrote:
>"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
>news:jl6bu7tll0ut61j4f...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:49:18 +0100, "sweetheart" <hotmail.com> wrote:
>> It is caused by condensation. It won't go away until you reduce the
>> amount of moisture being generated within the house by using cooker
>> hoods venting to outside or a kitchen extractor fan when
>> cooking/washing. Use bathroom extraction fans with humidity controls
>> or running for 30 minutes after a shower or bath. Don't dry clothes
>> inside the house, don't use a condenser tumble dryer but one venting
>> to outside.
>
>I know the house is air tight - although I did get laughed at when I
>suggested that part of my problem might be the bubble wrap effect - too much
>insulation.
Too much insulation and not enough ventilation is a common cause of
>"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
>news:jl6bu7tll0ut61j4f...@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:49:18 +0100, "sweetheart" <hotmail.com> wrote:
>> It is caused by condensation. It won't go away until you reduce the
>> amount of moisture being generated within the house by using cooker
>> hoods venting to outside or a kitchen extractor fan when
>> cooking/washing. Use bathroom extraction fans with humidity controls
>> or running for 30 minutes after a shower or bath. Don't dry clothes
>> inside the house, don't use a condenser tumble dryer but one venting
>> to outside.
>
>I know the house is air tight - although I did get laughed at when I
>suggested that part of my problem might be the bubble wrap effect - too much
>insulation.
condensation, by having some windows single glazed you make the
problem worse by creating cold plates for the moist air to condense
upon. It will be doing the same on the carpet (cold floor) but you
won't notice it except by smell.
>I cant see how I can reduce condesation further. I dont cook except for an
>hour and a hallf on Sundays. I am not in during the week so the kitchen isnt
>used. We dont have baths - we use the shower and that only runs for 5 mins
>or less.
>The bathroom ( which is the least steamy in the house has windows open all
>the time)
necessarily helpful. You want to draw moist air out, not push it into
the rest of the house.
>The cooker is electric ( no hood).
>I wash once a week and use the tumble dryer ( condenser dryer and does not
>cause humidity in the kitchen ) once a week.
the form of water vapour into the room they are in.
>We do not have radiators ( all electric because there is no gas to the
>village) . The problem is worse when I turn off the heating.
>I wondered whether the constant wetting by condensation on the windows and
>drying out of the wooden window frames was causing the smell?
a visible water film. The windows are your best indicator that you
have woefully inadequate ventilation.
stuart noble
Jun 23, 2012, 12:02:28 PM6/23/12
to
On 23/06/2012 14:47, sweetheart wrote:
> If I ran the heating all year ( I did a few years back before OH became
> an eco warrior!) I found that I didnt have any problems at all ( and no
> smell)
There's your answer then. You need to maintain a temperature suitable
> If I ran the heating all year ( I did a few years back before OH became
> an eco warrior!) I found that I didnt have any problems at all ( and no
> smell)
for human habitation i.e. 16 or 17 degsC. With proper insulation this
shouldn't be too expensive
Phil L
Jun 23, 2012, 12:16:15 PM6/23/12
to
sweetheart wrote:
> Carpets in the one room are about 15 years old. In the other ( the
> worst room) I have taken up the carpet and its bare floorboards now.
So you've got floorboards in a bungalow?
> Carpets in the one room are about 15 years old. In the other ( the
> worst room) I have taken up the carpet and its bare floorboards now.
That means you've got suspended floors, which means the joists could be
rotting if there's not enough ventilation.
Check the outside airbricks underneath or very near the DPC and check them
all the way around the property - they all need to be working properly.
Check they go through OK by prodding a thin rod through about 2ft - a bamboo
cane will do and prod about 6 or 7 different holes in each one and make sure
they aren't blocked.
Also, check the floors in each room for 'bounce', especially near the
exterior wall side
Mr Pounder
Jun 23, 2012, 12:56:48 PM6/23/12
to
"Phil L" <neverc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hZlFr.361402$Qh7.2...@fx14.am4...
When did this problem start?
>
>
Weatherlawyer
Jun 23, 2012, 1:50:56 PM6/23/12
to
I seem to recall mention of leaking guttering.
If the roof is leaking near the gutters it will be making a mess in
your attic.
Otherwise it will be damaging the skirting and any joists in the wall
at the leaking side. There will be joists in that wall as the floor
joists combine with the roof timbers to form a triangle.
Any mold induced there will show itself as corn-flaked skirting and
window boards. What did the window boards look like on the old
replaced windows?
harry
Jun 23, 2012, 2:11:28 PM6/23/12
to
On Jun 23, 2:51 pm, "sweetheart" <hotmail.com> wrote:
> "NT" <meow2...@care2.com> wrote in message
Well the moisture is coming from somewhere.
If you have a timber floor, is it dry beneath and is the void
ventilated, ie got airbricks. If there are airbricks, are the holes
clear of obstruction?
> "NT" <meow2...@care2.com> wrote in message
If you have a timber floor, is it dry beneath and is the void
ventilated, ie got airbricks. If there are airbricks, are the holes
clear of obstruction?
sweetheart
Jun 23, 2012, 2:30:27 PM6/23/12
to
"charles" <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:52a45ed5...@charleshope.demon.co.uk...
> In article <nOadnRtKxqptVXjS...@bt.com>, sweetheart
> <hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
>> news:jl6bu7tll0ut61j4f...@4ax.com...
>> > On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:49:18 +0100, "sweetheart" <
>
> <hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
>> news:jl6bu7tll0ut61j4f...@4ax.com...
>> > On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:49:18 +0100, "sweetheart" <
>
>> I cant see how I can reduce condesation further.
>
> Stop breathing. You exhale a fair bit of moisture.
>
> --
I have thought about that <g>.But what is the point of a house that is only
>
> Stop breathing. You exhale a fair bit of moisture.
>
> --
OK if no one alive lives in it?
sweetheart
Jun 23, 2012, 2:35:18 PM6/23/12
to
news:oknbu75p3njpptbhg...@4ax.com...
my worries really.However, I can see the point about the windows. Whilst
they are not single glazed the ones in the bedrooms are old and poorly(?)
doubleglazed . Hence I wondered if they needed changing.
As I said, this was a whole house problem but removing the signle glazed
units in the dining room and sitting room solved that problem. Changing the
wooden double glazed window and door in the kitchen seems to have solved
that area. So would new windows in the bedrooms solve that one?
I have put the heating back on today to see if I can dry things out a bit. I
have had enough this week ( windy , wet and cold and a high must factor)
>
> On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 14:47:28 +0100, "sweetheart" <hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
>>news:jl6bu7tll0ut61j4f...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:49:18 +0100, "sweetheart"
>
>
>
>>"Peter Parry" <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
>>news:jl6bu7tll0ut61j4f...@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:49:18 +0100, "sweetheart"
>
> It is the condensation occurring on cold surfaces but not enough to be
> a visible water film. The windows are your best indicator that you
> have woefully inadequate ventilation.
>
I accept the ventilation may be inadiquate. The bathroom is the least of
> a visible water film. The windows are your best indicator that you
> have woefully inadequate ventilation.
>
my worries really.However, I can see the point about the windows. Whilst
they are not single glazed the ones in the bedrooms are old and poorly(?)
doubleglazed . Hence I wondered if they needed changing.
As I said, this was a whole house problem but removing the signle glazed
units in the dining room and sitting room solved that problem. Changing the
wooden double glazed window and door in the kitchen seems to have solved
that area. So would new windows in the bedrooms solve that one?
I have put the heating back on today to see if I can dry things out a bit. I
have had enough this week ( windy , wet and cold and a high must factor)
>
sweetheart
Jun 23, 2012, 2:37:43 PM6/23/12
to
"stuart noble" <stuart...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:lMlFr.296757$JL5.1...@fx13.am4...
above that when I have the heating off . Its around 18 when the heating is
on ( or 20 in winter when my chest plays up) .
I kid not when I say I wear a coat around the house.
But what happened to all this turn the heating down and wear an extra layer?
It is clearly no good for the house is it? This is where my OH has become
obsessed.
sweetheart
Jun 23, 2012, 2:44:45 PM6/23/12
to
"Weatherlawyer" <weathe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:71f8405e-e24d-4397...@l17g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...
It was round the chimney valley and it was a blocked gully and it was fixed.
I have had the guttering overhauled since then.
Otherwise it will be damaging the skirting and any joists in the wall
at the leaking side. There will be joists in that wall as the floor
joists combine with the roof timbers to form a triangle.
Any mold induced there will show itself as corn-flaked skirting and
window boards. What did the window boards look like on the old
replaced windows?
around the rest of the house. I asked to look deliberately. No mould - just
the musty smell all the time. I had mould in the kitchen ( which was
probably a result of steam from the kettle and from the old door being
sopping wet. Thats why I changed it ( despite OH protesting masses . That
door was rotten but the frame was good. Its plastic now anyway - and I have
got rid of the problems as a result. Well its either that or coincidence
that changing the door and window in the kitchen has stopped the
condensation and as a result as stopped the mould growth on the wall and
over patches on the ceiling.
But there is no mould or patches of damp anywhere in the bedrooms
sweetheart
Jun 23, 2012, 2:45:59 PM6/23/12
to
"harry" <harol...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:21fe5625-58fd-4d87...@n33g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
and dry ( had the boards up to check. This is why it is getting so hard to
work out what is wrong.
sweetheart
Jun 23, 2012, 2:47:44 PM6/23/12
to
up to check it. Its all dry and hunkey.
>
>
sweetheart
Jun 23, 2012, 2:58:27 PM6/23/12
to
"Mr Pounder" <MrPo...@RationalThought.com> wrote in message
the house - 20 years ago.
There has always been condenstation with the windows. The wondwos and patio
doors in the sitting room were all wooden The bedrooms still are. My
predecessor had the house insulated and draught proofed ( its all sealed
everywhere) .
When I used to keep the heating on it was always fine. Then OH got eco and
economy conscious about four years ago ( with the recession) and started
forcing us to do the stuff the TV suggested - and then it all escallated and
its got worse and worse and worse. Now its unliveable in the bedroom ( for
me). The problem has really got far worse in the last month in there. It
now stinks. So I cleaned and moved everything and am still trying to find
it.
I got fed up, had a blazing row with him and started renewing all the wet
sopping condensation wringing windows this last winter when they collapsed
and I refused to take a Mr botch job and sent for the double glazing firm .
I have A rated planitherm windows in the sitting room and the kitchen and a
double glazed insulated door in the kitchen now. .
I didnt get as far as the bedrooms. They are still wooden and have thin
double glazed units in them. They do get sopping wet when it is cold . It
gets better if the weather improves. It gets worse when it rains and is
cold like now.
>>
charles
Jun 23, 2012, 2:59:43 PM6/23/12
to
In article <9f-dncDWVphrkXvS...@bt.com>, sweetheart
I suggest that 10°C is really rather too low. In old money it's only 50°F.
Turn down an wear an extra layer does depend on your starting reference.
18°C is reasonable if your are young, fit, active and healthy. If you are
older and fairly sedentary you probably need over 20°C.
Turn down an wear an extra layer does depend on your starting reference.
18°C is reasonable if your are young, fit, active and healthy. If you are
older and fairly sedentary you probably need over 20°C.
NT
Jun 23, 2012, 5:15:10 PM6/23/12
to
On Jun 23, 7:37 pm, "sweetheart" <hotmail.com> wrote:
> "stuart noble" <stuart_no...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
First replacing windows or wallpaper has absolutely nothing to do with
solving a damp problem.
Second, standard dehumidifiers don't even work at 10C. This would
explain the persistence of symptoms of damp even when they're in use.
3rd, sleeping in a 10C room increases the death rate considerably.
Indoors should be minimum 16C - at which point a dh can begin to work.
I dont know how you cook. I see many people with the gas up high, when
really the lowest possible setting and a lid cooks just as fast.
NT
> "stuart noble" <stuart_no...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
solving a damp problem.
Second, standard dehumidifiers don't even work at 10C. This would
explain the persistence of symptoms of damp even when they're in use.
3rd, sleeping in a 10C room increases the death rate considerably.
Indoors should be minimum 16C - at which point a dh can begin to work.
I dont know how you cook. I see many people with the gas up high, when
really the lowest possible setting and a lid cooks just as fast.
NT
ARWadsworth
Jun 23, 2012, 5:25:57 PM6/23/12
to
--
Adam
fatally flawed should be called factually flawed
ARWadsworth
Jun 23, 2012, 5:32:53 PM6/23/12
to
The Natural Philosopher
Jun 23, 2012, 9:21:07 PM6/23/12
to
sweetheart wrote:
>
> I have put the heating back on today to see if I can dry things out a
> bit. I have had enough this week ( windy , wet and cold and a high must
> factor)
The worst asthma I ver got was in Pietermaritzburg in a house that had
>
> I have put the heating back on today to see if I can dry things out a
> bit. I have had enough this week ( windy , wet and cold and a high must
> factor)
been left unheated and un dehumidified in subtropical temps. Musty? it
smelt of damp mould everywhere.
This weather it is hard to escape that mould - such humidity.
Heating or dehumidfifying the best options.
>>
>
--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.
stuart noble
Jun 24, 2012, 3:10:23 AM6/24/12
to
in a garden shed. You're going to kill yourself if you carry on living
in those conditions
I wonder if your loft insulation needs upgrading as the standards 20
years ago were miserly. Of course, no point without heating though.
sweetheart
Jun 24, 2012, 4:29:23 AM6/24/12
to
news:9d4670be-62f5-457d...@q2g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...
a result of condensation can cause a musty smell. Since I cannot find any
damp, I did wonder if that could be the cause. Hence I asked if anyone
thought it could be the windows?
On Jun 23, 7:37 pm, "sweetheart" <hotmail.com> wrote:
> "stuart noble" <stuart_no...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>
> news:lMlFr.296757$JL5.1...@fx13.am4...
>
> > On 23/06/2012 14:47, sweetheart wrote:
> >> If I ran the heating all year ( I did a few years back before OH became
> >> an eco warrior!) I found that I didnt have any problems at all ( and no
> >> smell)
>
> > There's your answer then. You need to maintain a temperature suitable
> > for
> > human habitation i.e. 16 or 17 degsC. With proper insulation this
> > shouldn't be too expensive
>
> Is that what it should be? My OH reckons 10degrees and our house is rarely
> above that when I have the heating off . Its around 18 when the heating is
> on ( or 20 in winter when my chest plays up) .
>
> I kid not when I say I wear a coat around the house.
>
> But what happened to all this turn the heating down and wear an extra
> layer?
> It is clearly no good for the house is it? This is where my OH has become
> obsessed.
First replacing windows or wallpaper has absolutely nothing to do with
solving a damp problem.
I was reading on the internet that wood , constantly wet and drying out as
> "stuart noble" <stuart_no...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>
> news:lMlFr.296757$JL5.1...@fx13.am4...
>
> > On 23/06/2012 14:47, sweetheart wrote:
> >> If I ran the heating all year ( I did a few years back before OH became
> >> an eco warrior!) I found that I didnt have any problems at all ( and no
> >> smell)
>
> > There's your answer then. You need to maintain a temperature suitable
> > for
> > human habitation i.e. 16 or 17 degsC. With proper insulation this
> > shouldn't be too expensive
>
> Is that what it should be? My OH reckons 10degrees and our house is rarely
> above that when I have the heating off . Its around 18 when the heating is
> on ( or 20 in winter when my chest plays up) .
>
> I kid not when I say I wear a coat around the house.
>
> But what happened to all this turn the heating down and wear an extra
> layer?
> It is clearly no good for the house is it? This is where my OH has become
> obsessed.
First replacing windows or wallpaper has absolutely nothing to do with
solving a damp problem.
a result of condensation can cause a musty smell. Since I cannot find any
damp, I did wonder if that could be the cause. Hence I asked if anyone
thought it could be the windows?
sweetheart
Jun 24, 2012, 4:35:38 AM6/24/12
to
On Jun 23, 7:37 pm, "sweetheart" <hotmail.com> wrote:
> "stuart noble" <stuart_no...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>
> news:lMlFr.296757$JL5.1...@fx13.am4...
>
> "stuart noble" <stuart_no...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>
> news:lMlFr.296757$JL5.1...@fx13.am4...
>
>>>>>>>>Second, standard dehumidifiers don't even work at 10C. This would
explain the persistence of symptoms of damp even when they're in
use.>>>>>>>>
Well that explains that problem, thank you.
explain the persistence of symptoms of damp even when they're in
use.>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>3rd, sleeping in a 10C room increases the death rate considerably.
Indoors should be minimum 16C - at which point a dh can begin to
work.>>>>>>>>
dead? All of which des seem to mock the idea we all have to cut down on
using power etc. My Oh is just obsessed with seeing how low he can keep
energy costs and bills - he bought one of those stupid meters and its been
worse since. The minute we hit the " cut off " point for the days useage, he
makes me switch everything off.
>>>>>>>>I dont know how you cook. I see many people with the gas up high,
>>>>>>>>when>>>>>>>>>>>
electric). I do not cook very often because of OH's limits on power use. I
tend to microwave to heat stuff and cook once a week for the weeks food. We
have salads and sandwiches which do not require cooking.
sweetheart
Jun 24, 2012, 4:38:19 AM6/24/12
to
"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:js5cm6$llh$1...@dont-email.me...
trying to help me sort my problem out here and I am grateful for that. If
they exalin things and I understand them I will eventually be able to sort
it. They have helped me many times with DIY things and I have been grateful.
John Williamson
Jun 24, 2012, 4:55:16 AM6/24/12
to
sweetheart wrote:
>
> I do not use gas, there is none here ( village not on mains anything
> except electric). I do not cook very often because of OH's limits on
> power use. I tend to microwave to heat stuff and cook once a week for
> the weeks food. We have salads and sandwiches which do not require cooking.
>
Most, if not all of your damp problems are probably caused by
>
> I do not use gas, there is none here ( village not on mains anything
> except electric). I do not cook very often because of OH's limits on
> power use. I tend to microwave to heat stuff and cook once a week for
> the weeks food. We have salads and sandwiches which do not require cooking.
>
insufficient ventilation and insufficient heating. Until you address
these problems, your mustiness and other problems are unlikely to go
away. I ensure that I have permanent ventilation in all rooms, and just
live with the extra cost of heating the incoming cold air. I have no
damp problems at all, but my heating bills are probably about 20% higher
than they would be if I shut off all the vents. I do, however, save
money by not having to replace household fabrics and mildewed clothes on
a regular basis.
Damp causes molds and fungi to prosper, which give off spores, causing
medical problems such as asthma. They also damage the organic parts of
your house. Cold damp conditions and a lack of ventilation also
encourage bronchial infections.
In a way, the lack of gas for cooking in your house is a blessing,
because it means there's less humidity in the house than there would be
otherwise, as burning gas makes water.
--
Tciao for Now!
John.
Rod Speed
Jun 24, 2012, 6:58:18 AM6/24/12
to
news:MPydnQNCaMLflnvS...@bt.com...
It would make a great mausoleum
Grimly Curmudgeon
Jun 24, 2012, 9:51:31 AM6/24/12
to
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:37:43 +0100, "sweetheart" <hotmail.com> wrote:
>Is that what it should be? My OH reckons 10degrees
He's a right skinflint. Dump him and run away with Adam.
>Is that what it should be? My OH reckons 10degrees
NT
Jun 24, 2012, 2:33:16 PM6/24/12
to
On Jun 24, 9:55 am, John Williamson <johnwilliam...@btinternet.com>
wrote:
I remember seeing a demo from the 1930s of 2 petri dish cultures in a
room, once with everything shut, and again with the window ajar. The
closed room had a way higher count of growing bugs of all kinds.
NT
wrote:
room, once with everything shut, and again with the window ajar. The
closed room had a way higher count of growing bugs of all kinds.
NT
NT
Jun 24, 2012, 2:35:13 PM6/24/12
to
On Jun 24, 9:35 am, "sweetheart" <hotmail.com> wrote:
> "NT" <meow2...@care2.com> wrote in message
know anyone in the mainstream suggesting 10C.
> My Oh is just obsessed with seeing how low he can keep
> energy costs and bills - he bought one of those stupid meters and its been
> worse since. The minute we hit the " cut off " point for the days useage, he
> makes me switch everything off.
>
> >>>>>>>>I dont know how you cook. I see many people with the gas up high,
> >>>>>>>>when>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> I do not use gas, there is none here ( village not on mains anything except
> electric). I do not cook very often because of OH's limits on power use. I
> tend to microwave to heat stuff and cook once a week for the weeks food. We
> have salads and sandwiches which do not require cooking.
Windows dont cause damp, unless rain is running in through them. They
get wet if there's already damp.
NT
> "NT" <meow2...@care2.com> wrote in message
>
> news:9d4670be-62f5-457d...@q2g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 23, 7:37 pm, "sweetheart" <hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "stuart noble" <stuart_no...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:lMlFr.296757$JL5.1...@fx13.am4...
>
> >>>>>>>>Second, standard dehumidifiers don't even work at 10C. This would
>
> explain the persistence of symptoms of damp even when they're in
> use.>>>>>>>>
>
> Well that explains that problem, thank you.
>
> >>>>>>3rd, sleeping in a 10C room increases the death rate considerably.
>
> Indoors should be minimum 16C - at which point a dh can begin to
> work.>>>>>>>>
>
> I didnt know that and I suppose OH does not either. Unless he wants me
> dead? All of which des seem to mock the idea we all have to cut down on
> using power etc.
AIUI the usual advice is to knwck 1C off the usual 20C setting. I dont
> news:9d4670be-62f5-457d...@q2g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 23, 7:37 pm, "sweetheart" <hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "stuart noble" <stuart_no...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:lMlFr.296757$JL5.1...@fx13.am4...
>
> >>>>>>>>Second, standard dehumidifiers don't even work at 10C. This would
>
> explain the persistence of symptoms of damp even when they're in
> use.>>>>>>>>
>
> Well that explains that problem, thank you.
>
> >>>>>>3rd, sleeping in a 10C room increases the death rate considerably.
>
> Indoors should be minimum 16C - at which point a dh can begin to
> work.>>>>>>>>
>
> I didnt know that and I suppose OH does not either. Unless he wants me
> dead? All of which des seem to mock the idea we all have to cut down on
> using power etc.
know anyone in the mainstream suggesting 10C.
> My Oh is just obsessed with seeing how low he can keep
> energy costs and bills - he bought one of those stupid meters and its been
> worse since. The minute we hit the " cut off " point for the days useage, he
> makes me switch everything off.
>
> >>>>>>>>I dont know how you cook. I see many people with the gas up high,
> >>>>>>>>when>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> I do not use gas, there is none here ( village not on mains anything except
> electric). I do not cook very often because of OH's limits on power use. I
> tend to microwave to heat stuff and cook once a week for the weeks food. We
> have salads and sandwiches which do not require cooking.
get wet if there's already damp.
NT
ARWadsworth
Jun 24, 2012, 3:11:22 PM6/24/12
to
And you are a still a troll.
--
Adam
Rod Speed
Jun 24, 2012, 3:50:31 PM6/24/12
to
"NT" <meow...@care2.com> wrote in message
news:9d4670be-62f5-457d...@q2g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...
used ?
ARWadsworth
Jun 24, 2012, 4:24:51 PM6/24/12
to
It will keep you warm.
--
Adam
sweetheart
Jun 25, 2012, 4:10:03 AM6/25/12
to
news:js7oor$ref$1...@dont-email.me...
> sweetheart wrote:
>> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk>
>
>
> sweetheart wrote:
>> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk>
>
> Yes it's me.
>
> And you are a still a troll.
>
> --
> Adam
I would have thought it was the other way round myself.
> Yes it's me.
>
> And you are a still a troll.
>
> --
> Adam
>
>
sweetheart
Jun 25, 2012, 4:11:39 AM6/25/12
to
"Grimly Curmudgeon" <gri...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:iq6eu75s85snumrkf...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 19:37:43 +0100, "sweetheart" <hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Is that what it should be? My OH reckons 10degrees
>
> He's a right skinflint. Dump him and run away with Adam.
Ye Gods exchange one damp house for another?
>
>>Is that what it should be? My OH reckons 10degrees
>
> He's a right skinflint. Dump him and run away with Adam.
I put the heating on . OH doesn't seem to have realised it yet.
sweetheart
Jun 25, 2012, 4:18:24 AM6/25/12
to
news:6e98d291-92b1-4eaa...@q2g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...
Spotlight presenter ( if anyone is in the SW) Justin ( cant recall the
surnname). he is always going on about not putting his heating on until
Christmas even when its really cold.
He seems to turn it off religiously in April too. My OH told me that " its
the middle of June, you dont have heating this time of year"
The house was 10 degrees. I have thermometers in every room ( because of
my chest, I know in winter I have to have the room at 20 degrees if I am
ill). I put the heating on and now the bedroom is 16 degrees and the
sitting room is 19 degrees - and after just two days the damp is going (
the bed clothes arent damp anymore) but I still have the smell,although its
less than it was.
The sitting room is dry and warm and I slept in there the other night when I
couldnt breathe
So,I am thinking you are right about the tempreture being a main problem
here.
Thanks.
On Jun 24, 9:35 am, "sweetheart" <hotmail.com> wrote:
> "NT" <meow2...@care2.com> wrote in message
>
> "NT" <meow2...@care2.com> wrote in message
>
>>>>>>>AIUI the usual advice is to knwck 1C off the usual 20C setting. I
>>>>>>>dont
know anyone in the mainstream suggesting 10C.>>>>>>>
I didnt know that and I doubt he does. He gets his ideasfrom that BBC
>>>>>>>dont
know anyone in the mainstream suggesting 10C.>>>>>>>
Spotlight presenter ( if anyone is in the SW) Justin ( cant recall the
surnname). he is always going on about not putting his heating on until
Christmas even when its really cold.
He seems to turn it off religiously in April too. My OH told me that " its
the middle of June, you dont have heating this time of year"
The house was 10 degrees. I have thermometers in every room ( because of
my chest, I know in winter I have to have the room at 20 degrees if I am
ill). I put the heating on and now the bedroom is 16 degrees and the
sitting room is 19 degrees - and after just two days the damp is going (
the bed clothes arent damp anymore) but I still have the smell,although its
less than it was.
The sitting room is dry and warm and I slept in there the other night when I
couldnt breathe
So,I am thinking you are right about the tempreture being a main problem
here.
Thanks.
Peter Parry
Jun 25, 2012, 12:43:25 PM6/25/12
to
Congratulations, you have just invented energy free refrigeration.
Sell the mechanism and use the profits to heat the house or move to
warmer climes.
Sell the mechanism and use the profits to heat the house or move to
warmer climes.
Message has been deleted
Weatherlawyer
Jun 27, 2012, 11:52:47 AM6/27/12
to
On Jun 23, 7:44 pm, "sweetheart" <hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> But there is no mould nor patches of damp anywhere in the bedrooms
You are probably smelling a soil pipe vent.
If the bend under sinks and etc are not large enough the smell from
the sewer is coming in from there. If there is a vent stack near a
window or air brick it may be coming from there in certain weather
conditions.
Assuming you have not been sabotaged with rotten rags or dead fish,
the other alternative is that your husband has a problem with his
digestion.
Several of us did suggest you get rid of him some time ago. I'd have a
mouse hunt if I were you.
>
> But there is no mould nor patches of damp anywhere in the bedrooms
You are probably smelling a soil pipe vent.
If the bend under sinks and etc are not large enough the smell from
the sewer is coming in from there. If there is a vent stack near a
window or air brick it may be coming from there in certain weather
conditions.
Assuming you have not been sabotaged with rotten rags or dead fish,
the other alternative is that your husband has a problem with his
digestion.
Several of us did suggest you get rid of him some time ago. I'd have a
mouse hunt if I were you.
sweetheart
Jul 1, 2012, 2:10:47 AM7/1/12
to
"Weatherlawyer" <weathe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:452a8d51-41a8-4289...@l5g2000vbo.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 23, 7:44 pm, "sweetheart" <hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> But there is no mould nor patches of damp anywhere in the bedrooms
<You are probably smelling a soil pipe vent.
If the bend under sinks and etc are not large enough the smell from
the sewer is coming in from there. If there is a vent stack near a
window or air brick it may be coming from there in certain weather
conditions.>>>>>>>>>>>>
I have wondered about this. The house ( bungalow ) is detached and had a
>
> But there is no mould nor patches of damp anywhere in the bedrooms
<You are probably smelling a soil pipe vent.
If the bend under sinks and etc are not large enough the smell from
the sewer is coming in from there. If there is a vent stack near a
window or air brick it may be coming from there in certain weather
conditions.>>>>>>>>>>>>
four sided roof if you understand me. On the side of the bedroom there is a
down pipe from the roof guttering. I have checked all and its sealed , no
leaks and no overflows but it does go down into a drain on that side.
But if it is that, what is there to do.
Since I put the heating back on the must has lessened in the room. I can s
till smell it sometimes. The room is fairly dry now ( obviously).
sweetheart
Jul 1, 2012, 2:12:46 AM7/1/12
to
"Terry Fields" <no.spa...@thanks.invalid> wrote in message
news:sdqiu7lq3vj1j8rr0...@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>Second, standard dehumidifiers don't even work at 10C. This would
>>explain the persistence of symptoms of damp even when they're in
>>use.>>>>>>>>
>>
>>Well that explains that problem, thank you.
>
> Beg, borrow, or steal a 'desiccant wheel' dehumidifier; they work down
>>explain the persistence of symptoms of damp even when they're in
>>use.>>>>>>>>
>>
>>Well that explains that problem, thank you.
>
> to about 2 deg C. They are more expensive to buy, though. I use one in
> the garage, where we store documents and electronic gear that would be
> damaged by excessive humidity, even then it struggles on windy wet
> days.
>
>>>>>>>>3rd, sleeping in a 10C room increases the death rate considerably.
>>Indoors should be minimum 16C - at which point a dh can begin to
>>work.>>>>>>>>
>
> I understood it was something like 20 deg C in the lounge, and 22 if
>>>>>>>>3rd, sleeping in a 10C room increases the death rate considerably.
>>Indoors should be minimum 16C - at which point a dh can begin to
>>work.>>>>>>>>
>
> you're a wrinkly. SWMBO has suffered in the past with a 'chest', and
> likes it at 23 - 24 degC. Out gas bill is ~£700 per annum, including
> domestic hot water. We live in the next county to you, and have been
> astonished how damp it is here all year round.
>
> The sort of temperature numbers you are talking about are plainly
> ridiculous.
>
> Keep in mind that damp and mould damages the building fabric as well
> as the human respiratory system. Cheese-paring on this scale is seeing
> only part of the 'problem' (which was generated by econutcases for
> their own reasons). This is essentially grounds for divorce; and I
> sense that to solve your damp problem some sort of revolution is in
> the offing.
>
>>My Oh is just obsessed with seeing how low he can keep
>>energy costs and bills - he bought one of those stupid meters and its
>>been
>>worse since. The minute we hit the " cut off " point for the days useage,
>>he
>>makes me switch everything off.
>
> Take the power monitor and throw it away; you're talking about
>>My Oh is just obsessed with seeing how low he can keep
>>energy costs and bills - he bought one of those stupid meters and its
>>been
>>worse since. The minute we hit the " cut off " point for the days useage,
>>he
>>makes me switch everything off.
>
> shortened life expectancy here.
>
>>I do not use gas, there is none here ( village not on mains anything
>>except
>>electric). I do not cook very often because of OH's limits on power use.
>>I
>>tend to microwave to heat stuff and cook once a week for the weeks food.
>>We
>>have salads and sandwiches which do not require cooking.
>
> You aren't eating properly either. With a house that cold you need a
>>I do not use gas, there is none here ( village not on mains anything
>>except
>>electric). I do not cook very often because of OH's limits on power use.
>>I
>>tend to microwave to heat stuff and cook once a week for the weeks food.
>>We
>>have salads and sandwiches which do not require cooking.
>
> high-fat diet, usually obtained from cooked meats. Living in 10 deg C
> and eating salads, in a mouldy atmosphere, is going to lead to
> shortened lives.
>
> You're going to have to make big changes. They will be uncomfortable.
>
>
> Terry Fields
Thank you. I understand what you are saying. I have put the heating on and
its now 21 in the sitting room and 18 in the bedroom. That has not been
easy by the way.
Message has been deleted
stuart noble
Jul 1, 2012, 5:29:30 AM7/1/12
to
On 01/07/2012 08:56, Terry Fields wrote:
>
> My very elderly mother-in-law is the same, although she has plenty of
> money, but against all advice she takes it down to the level of
> personal hygiene, which was a strip-wash at the sink once a week. Then
> cellulitis set in, and after three recurrences and three trips to
> hospital (the sort of thing she did was to take the first three
> antibiotic pills and then say 'I'm fed up with that', so it all came
> back again) the big one came and she was unable to look after herself.
>
> We live 250 miles away, and my wife had to spend seven weeks of
> 15-hour days getting her back on her feet and arranging a care
> package. This of course costs far more than she ever saved through her
> cheese-paring, and has severely reduced her already limited mobility.
> However, the bills have now come in for that period, and she's been
> ringing up what she calls 'the gas board' to get the meter checked, as
> she refuses to believe that anyone could squander £500 on gas over the
> six-month winter period.
>
> But this is the sort of thing that happens when cheese-paring becomes
> an end in itself: it's killing my mother-in-law. So I fully understand
> the difficulties you are labouring under, but the bigger picture is
> that unless you get rid of the damp, heat the rooms, and eat properly,
> the money saved by watching the energy monitor will be an irrelevance.
>
> Terry Fields
>
I think a lot of this is age related, and it creeps up on you if you're
not careful. I find myself being frugal to the point of silliness and I
have to force myself to spend money (well, it's a civic duty to aid the
recovery isn't it?)
I think the OP may now be going overboard with the temperatures. I find
17-18 deg comfortable and high enough to keep the place dry and warm. I
don't lounge about in my vest but nor do I wear more than one jumper in
the winter
>
> sweetheart wrote:
>
>>
>> "Terry Fields" <no.spa...@thanks.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:sdqiu7lq3vj1j8rr0...@4ax.com...
>
> sweetheart wrote:
>
>>
>> "Terry Fields" <no.spa...@thanks.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:sdqiu7lq3vj1j8rr0...@4ax.com...
>
>>> You aren't eating properly either. With a house that cold you need a
>>> high-fat diet, usually obtained from cooked meats. Living in 10 deg C
>>> and eating salads, in a mouldy atmosphere, is going to lead to
>>> shortened lives.
>>>
>>> You're going to have to make big changes. They will be uncomfortable.
>>
>>> Terry Fields
>>
>> Thank you. I understand what you are saying. I have put the heating on and
>> its now 21 in the sitting room and 18 in the bedroom.
>
> Those are not unreasonable figures, but 10 deg C certainly is.
>>> high-fat diet, usually obtained from cooked meats. Living in 10 deg C
>>> and eating salads, in a mouldy atmosphere, is going to lead to
>>> shortened lives.
>>>
>>> You're going to have to make big changes. They will be uncomfortable.
>>
>>> Terry Fields
>>
>> Thank you. I understand what you are saying. I have put the heating on and
>> its now 21 in the sitting room and 18 in the bedroom.
>
>
>> That has not been easy by the way.
>
> I can well imagine.
>> That has not been easy by the way.
>
>
> My very elderly mother-in-law is the same, although she has plenty of
> money, but against all advice she takes it down to the level of
> personal hygiene, which was a strip-wash at the sink once a week. Then
> cellulitis set in, and after three recurrences and three trips to
> hospital (the sort of thing she did was to take the first three
> antibiotic pills and then say 'I'm fed up with that', so it all came
> back again) the big one came and she was unable to look after herself.
>
> We live 250 miles away, and my wife had to spend seven weeks of
> 15-hour days getting her back on her feet and arranging a care
> package. This of course costs far more than she ever saved through her
> cheese-paring, and has severely reduced her already limited mobility.
> However, the bills have now come in for that period, and she's been
> ringing up what she calls 'the gas board' to get the meter checked, as
> she refuses to believe that anyone could squander £500 on gas over the
> six-month winter period.
>
> But this is the sort of thing that happens when cheese-paring becomes
> an end in itself: it's killing my mother-in-law. So I fully understand
> the difficulties you are labouring under, but the bigger picture is
> that unless you get rid of the damp, heat the rooms, and eat properly,
> the money saved by watching the energy monitor will be an irrelevance.
>
> Terry Fields
>
I think a lot of this is age related, and it creeps up on you if you're
not careful. I find myself being frugal to the point of silliness and I
have to force myself to spend money (well, it's a civic duty to aid the
recovery isn't it?)
I think the OP may now be going overboard with the temperatures. I find
17-18 deg comfortable and high enough to keep the place dry and warm. I
don't lounge about in my vest but nor do I wear more than one jumper in
the winter
Message has been deleted
Rod Speed
Jul 1, 2012, 4:18:28 PM7/1/12
to
"stuart noble" <stuart...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:YLUHr.396397$of1.2...@fx06.am4...
jumper unless out and about rather than sitting around.
george ~ dicegeorge
Jul 3, 2012, 11:25:03 AM7/3/12
to
old houses ventilate themselves - too much in windy weather.
modern double glazed ones can be ventilated the correct amount
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Insulate-Weatherize-Tauntons-Build-Like/dp/1600854680/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1341329018&sr=8-1
Maybe you need a humidity meter?
[g]
modern double glazed ones can be ventilated the correct amount
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Insulate-Weatherize-Tauntons-Build-Like/dp/1600854680/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1341329018&sr=8-1
Maybe you need a humidity meter?
[g]
Message has been deleted
0 new messages