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Re: Touch dimmer lamp breaks when bulb fails
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Dave Plowman (News)
Mar 6, 2017, 10:39:51 AM3/6/17
to
In article <XnsA7309EC...@81.171.118.178>,
pamela <inv...@nospam.com> wrote:
> I bought a couple of desk lamps with touch setting for 3 levels of
> brightness. One lamp got knocked over causing the bulb and fuse to
> both blow. I replaced the fuse and bulb but the lamp doesn't work.
> Then the same happened to the other lamp.
> Inside there's a block marked "Hopestar LD 600 touch dimmer". Is it
> normal for the touch dimmer unit to blow like this?
Sadly, some types of lamp (often halogens) can short circuit when they
blow, and damage the dimmer.
--
*Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
pamela <inv...@nospam.com> wrote:
> I bought a couple of desk lamps with touch setting for 3 levels of
> brightness. One lamp got knocked over causing the bulb and fuse to
> both blow. I replaced the fuse and bulb but the lamp doesn't work.
> Then the same happened to the other lamp.
> Inside there's a block marked "Hopestar LD 600 touch dimmer". Is it
> normal for the touch dimmer unit to blow like this?
Sadly, some types of lamp (often halogens) can short circuit when they
blow, and damage the dimmer.
--
*Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
charles
Mar 6, 2017, 10:40:01 AM3/6/17
to
In article <XnsA7309EC...@81.171.118.178>,
pamela <inv...@nospam.com> wrote:
> I bought a couple of desk lamps with touch setting for 3 levels of
> brightness. One lamp got knocked over causing the bulb and fuse to
> both blow. I replaced the fuse and bulb but the lamp doesn't work.
> Then the same happened to the other lamp.
> Inside there's a block marked "Hopestar LD 600 touch dimmer". Is it
> normal for the touch dimmer unit to blow like this?
we certainly have one blown one here. Another trip to JL only to discover
pamela <inv...@nospam.com> wrote:
> I bought a couple of desk lamps with touch setting for 3 levels of
> brightness. One lamp got knocked over causing the bulb and fuse to
> both blow. I replaced the fuse and bulb but the lamp doesn't work.
> Then the same happened to the other lamp.
> Inside there's a block marked "Hopestar LD 600 touch dimmer". Is it
> normal for the touch dimmer unit to blow like this?
that we have a discontinued model. So we had to buy 2 to get a matched pair
- we use them as bedside lamps.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
Rod Speed
Mar 6, 2017, 11:28:18 AM3/6/17
to
"pamela" <inv...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA730A1C...@81.171.118.178...
> On 15:39 6 Mar 2017, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>
>> In article <XnsA7309EC...@81.171.118.178>,
>> pamela <inv...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> I bought a couple of desk lamps with touch setting for 3 levels
>>> of brightness. One lamp got knocked over causing the bulb and
>>> fuse to both blow. I replaced the fuse and bulb but the lamp
>>> doesn't work.
>>
>>> Then the same happened to the other lamp.
>>
>>> Inside there's a block marked "Hopestar LD 600 touch dimmer".
>>> Is it normal for the touch dimmer unit to blow like this?
>>
>> Sadly, some types of lamp (often halogens) can short circuit
>> when they blow, and damage the dimmer.
>>
>
> One bulb was a halogen and the other an old style tungsten bulb.
>
>> In article <XnsA7309EC...@81.171.118.178>,
>> pamela <inv...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> I bought a couple of desk lamps with touch setting for 3 levels
>>> of brightness. One lamp got knocked over causing the bulb and
>>> fuse to both blow. I replaced the fuse and bulb but the lamp
>>> doesn't work.
>>
>>> Then the same happened to the other lamp.
>>
>>> Inside there's a block marked "Hopestar LD 600 touch dimmer".
>>> Is it normal for the touch dimmer unit to blow like this?
>>
>> Sadly, some types of lamp (often halogens) can short circuit
>> when they blow, and damage the dimmer.
>>
>
>
> Surely the dimmer is too fragile to be fit for use in a lamp if it's
> likely to blow when a bulb short circuits?
Its just not economically feasible to make the dimmer short circuit proof.
Much cheaper to bin the light when it dies like that.
Rod Speed
Mar 6, 2017, 11:29:55 AM3/6/17
to
news:XnsA730A21...@81.171.118.178...
> Although I call them desk lamps, these were also used as bedside
> lamps. The design seems very fragile.
Because there is no viable alternative.
> Do I have a reasonable case for a refund?
Yep.
> I don't have the receipts unfortunately and
> the lamps are about 9 to 12 months old.
Then they will likely tell you to go and fuck yourself.
> lamps. The design seems very fragile.
Because there is no viable alternative.
> Do I have a reasonable case for a refund?
Yep.
> I don't have the receipts unfortunately and
> the lamps are about 9 to 12 months old.
Then they will likely tell you to go and fuck yourself.
Andrew Gabriel
Mar 6, 2017, 12:51:23 PM3/6/17
to
In article <XnsA7309EC...@81.171.118.178>,
Owners have obtained replacements from ebay via China.
The last one I helped with a couple of months ago, the guy
had ordered two different ones (I think they were under 2
quid each). It was a good job he did, as I refused to use
the one which didn't have a Class Y capacitor on the
connection to the lamp body, and you simply can't tell
that sort of thing until you have it in your hands.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
pamela <inv...@nospam.com> writes:
> I bought a couple of desk lamps with touch setting for 3 levels of
> brightness. One lamp got knocked over causing the bulb and fuse to
> both blow. I replaced the fuse and bulb but the lamp doesn't work.
>
> Then the same happened to the other lamp.
>
> Inside there's a block marked "Hopestar LD 600 touch dimmer". Is it
> normal for the touch dimmer unit to blow like this?
It's not uncommon - repaired some at repair parties.
> I bought a couple of desk lamps with touch setting for 3 levels of
> brightness. One lamp got knocked over causing the bulb and fuse to
> both blow. I replaced the fuse and bulb but the lamp doesn't work.
>
> Then the same happened to the other lamp.
>
> Inside there's a block marked "Hopestar LD 600 touch dimmer". Is it
> normal for the touch dimmer unit to blow like this?
Owners have obtained replacements from ebay via China.
The last one I helped with a couple of months ago, the guy
had ordered two different ones (I think they were under 2
quid each). It was a good job he did, as I refused to use
the one which didn't have a Class Y capacitor on the
connection to the lamp body, and you simply can't tell
that sort of thing until you have it in your hands.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
newshound
Mar 6, 2017, 2:33:00 PM3/6/17
to
newshound
Mar 6, 2017, 2:34:48 PM3/6/17
to
tabb...@gmail.com
Mar 6, 2017, 3:38:23 PM3/6/17
to
NT
Brian Gaff
Mar 6, 2017, 4:06:04 PM3/6/17
to
I'd say no, but it depends on how the bulb fails. I don't think many dimmers
like a very hard short for more than a split second. I once bought a job
lot of 100w bulbs from a corner shop, branded Tesla. Every one of those
blew short, dead short took out three dimmers and popped breakers, so after
the replacement of the triacs in all the dimmers, relegated the bulbs to
the shed instead.
Brian
--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please!
like a very hard short for more than a split second. I once bought a job
lot of 100w bulbs from a corner shop, branded Tesla. Every one of those
blew short, dead short took out three dimmers and popped breakers, so after
the replacement of the triacs in all the dimmers, relegated the bulbs to
the shed instead.
Brian
--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"pamela" <inv...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA7309EC...@81.171.118.178...
Rod Speed
Mar 6, 2017, 5:12:16 PM3/6/17
to
news:XnsA730CC0...@81.171.92.183...
> On 17:23 6 Mar 2017, Chris Hogg wrote:
>> when the filament breaks, causing the MCB to trip. Less likely
>> if the bulb has an integral fuse in the base, but many haven't
>> these days. AIUI as the filament breaks, the arc that forms
>> momentarily between the two ends of the broken filament
>> vaporises enough tungsten to provide a highly conducting path
>> between the wires supporting the filament, in effect causing a
>> short circuit.
>>
>> I imagine that the chip in the lamp that regulates the current
>> in the lamp itself just can't cope.
> Such a type of short circuit might reasonably be expected to occur.
> Perhaps not every time but, say, half of the times a bulb blows.
Sure, but the problem is that it isnt cost effective
to design the dimmer so it will usually survive that.
> It seems a bit unreasonable to sell a lamp that
> will no longer work after a few bulb failures.
But you wouldn’t buy a lamp which can survive
those because of the price it would have to have.
> The wretched lamp only takes halogen or tungsten bulbs,
> so it's not as if I could have used anything else.
But you are now free to buy a lamp that uses LEDs instead.
> On 17:23 6 Mar 2017, Chris Hogg wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 06 Mar 2017 15:54:05 GMT, pamela <inv...@nospam.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 15:39 6 Mar 2017, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>>>
>> On Mon, 06 Mar 2017 15:54:05 GMT, pamela <inv...@nospam.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 15:39 6 Mar 2017, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <XnsA7309EC...@81.171.118.178>,
>>>> pamela <inv...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>> I bought a couple of desk lamps with touch setting for 3
>>>>> levels of brightness. One lamp got knocked over causing the
>>>>> bulb and fuse to both blow. I replaced the fuse and bulb but
>>>>> the lamp doesn't work.
>>>>
>>>>> Then the same happened to the other lamp.
>>>>
>>>>> Inside there's a block marked "Hopestar LD 600 touch dimmer".
>>>>> Is it normal for the touch dimmer unit to blow like this?
>>>>
>>>> Sadly, some types of lamp (often halogens) can short circuit
>>>> when they blow, and damage the dimmer.
>>>>
>>>
>>>> pamela <inv...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>> I bought a couple of desk lamps with touch setting for 3
>>>>> levels of brightness. One lamp got knocked over causing the
>>>>> bulb and fuse to both blow. I replaced the fuse and bulb but
>>>>> the lamp doesn't work.
>>>>
>>>>> Then the same happened to the other lamp.
>>>>
>>>>> Inside there's a block marked "Hopestar LD 600 touch dimmer".
>>>>> Is it normal for the touch dimmer unit to blow like this?
>>>>
>>>> Sadly, some types of lamp (often halogens) can short circuit
>>>> when they blow, and damage the dimmer.
>>>>
>>>
>>>One bulb was a halogen and the other an old style tungsten bulb.
>>>
>>>Surely the dimmer is too fragile to be fit for use in a lamp if
>>>it's likely to blow when a bulb short circuits?
>>
>> Even traditional filament lamps will sometimes short circuit
>>>
>>>Surely the dimmer is too fragile to be fit for use in a lamp if
>>>it's likely to blow when a bulb short circuits?
>>
>> when the filament breaks, causing the MCB to trip. Less likely
>> if the bulb has an integral fuse in the base, but many haven't
>> these days. AIUI as the filament breaks, the arc that forms
>> momentarily between the two ends of the broken filament
>> vaporises enough tungsten to provide a highly conducting path
>> between the wires supporting the filament, in effect causing a
>> short circuit.
>>
>> I imagine that the chip in the lamp that regulates the current
>> in the lamp itself just can't cope.
> Such a type of short circuit might reasonably be expected to occur.
> Perhaps not every time but, say, half of the times a bulb blows.
Sure, but the problem is that it isnt cost effective
to design the dimmer so it will usually survive that.
> It seems a bit unreasonable to sell a lamp that
> will no longer work after a few bulb failures.
But you wouldn’t buy a lamp which can survive
those because of the price it would have to have.
> The wretched lamp only takes halogen or tungsten bulbs,
> so it's not as if I could have used anything else.
But you are now free to buy a lamp that uses LEDs instead.
Rod Speed
Mar 6, 2017, 5:17:59 PM3/6/17
to
"newshound" <news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote in message
news:8MidnRuCxYRKJCDF...@brightview.co.uk...
Rod Speed
Mar 6, 2017, 5:19:30 PM3/6/17
to
"newshound" <news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote in message
news:8MidnRuCxYRKJCDF...@brightview.co.uk...
Won't protect a triac in that situation.
The obvious fix is LED lamps and that fixes both the
need to keep replacing the bulb and the dimmer being
taken out by bulb failure. Vastly better all round.
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp
Mar 7, 2017, 12:23:33 AM3/7/17
to
On Tue, 7 Mar 2017 09:19:20 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>"newshound" <news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote in message
>news:8MidnRuCxYRKJCDF...@brightview.co.uk...
>> On 3/6/2017 4:28 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "pamela" <inv...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:XnsA730A1C...@81.171.118.178...
>>>> On 15:39 6 Mar 2017, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
One can get a cheap touch unit from Ebay,
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>"newshound" <news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote in message
>news:8MidnRuCxYRKJCDF...@brightview.co.uk...
>> On 3/6/2017 4:28 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "pamela" <inv...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:XnsA730A1C...@81.171.118.178...
>>>> On 15:39 6 Mar 2017, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I bought around five for a very low price.
The units are cheap, cheerful and contained in a heatshrink "pocket"
though, so some work is needed to carry out a safe repair. One also
needs a bit of intuition to work out the connections as the colour
coding of the cables isn't standardised.
In short I still have the five units. The two duff Lidl lamps went
into the bin months back, as I got sick of continually moving them to
get at other items on my to do list.
AB
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Peter Parry
Mar 7, 2017, 5:42:53 AM3/7/17
to
particular power semiconductor in a design he had finished was, said
"it's there to protect the fuse"
Capitol
Mar 7, 2017, 5:51:33 AM3/7/17
to
whisky-dave
Mar 7, 2017, 6:09:21 AM3/7/17
to
On Monday, 6 March 2017 19:34:48 UTC, newshound wrote:
whisky-dave
Mar 7, 2017, 6:14:01 AM3/7/17
to
tabb...@gmail.com
Mar 7, 2017, 6:21:56 AM3/7/17
to
On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 10:51:33 UTC, Capitol wrote:
NT
> Even then, it probably won't work!
why would a smaller triac not fuse to protect the bigger one?
NT
whisky-dave
Mar 7, 2017, 6:39:18 AM3/7/17
to
I't slike putting in a smaller fuse in uo plug to protect the mains fuse, what would be the point ?
newshound
Mar 7, 2017, 7:01:08 AM3/7/17
to
surface mounted three pad one?
Particularly in a device with replaceable bulbs (admittedly they are
becoming rarer).
I can see the production engineering logic though. Especially if the
dimmer unit is modular and easily replaced.
whisky-dave
Mar 7, 2017, 7:54:51 AM3/7/17
to
On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 12:01:08 UTC, newshound wrote:
> On 3/7/2017 11:39 AM, whisky-dave wrote:
> > How would that solve the problem as yuo;d have to replace the smaller triac ?
> > I't slike putting in a smaller fuse in uo plug to protect the mains fuse, what would be the point ?
> >
> Because a two pin plug-in component would be easier to replace than a
> surface mounted three pad one?
But it'd be more expensive, discrete componetns are more expensive than the SMT versions and then you add the cost of the socket.
> On 3/7/2017 11:39 AM, whisky-dave wrote:
> > How would that solve the problem as yuo;d have to replace the smaller triac ?
> > I't slike putting in a smaller fuse in uo plug to protect the mains fuse, what would be the point ?
> >
> Because a two pin plug-in component would be easier to replace than a
> surface mounted three pad one?
And it would make the unit larger and more complex as you'd have to have the space for the extra components.
tabb...@gmail.com
Mar 7, 2017, 8:59:41 AM3/7/17
to
On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 11:39:18 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
Someone wanted a fuse. The smaller triac could be a press-in part, and would be the fuse. The main point is that effective fusing is doable. There are other ways to stop filament arcover taking out triacs too.
NT
NT
Dave Plowman (News)
Mar 7, 2017, 9:12:38 AM3/7/17
to
In article <of3tbcpfjo28oup27...@4ax.com>,
--
*Born free...Taxed to death.
Peter Parry <pe...@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote:
> >about the price of a triac :)
> Many moons ago a design engineer, when asked what the purpose of a
> particular power semiconductor in a design he had finished was, said
> "it's there to protect the fuse"
Yup. We did all this only months ago. ;-)
> >about the price of a triac :)
> Many moons ago a design engineer, when asked what the purpose of a
> particular power semiconductor in a design he had finished was, said
> "it's there to protect the fuse"
--
*Born free...Taxed to death.
Dave Plowman (News)
Mar 7, 2017, 9:12:39 AM3/7/17
to
In article <aaGdnc29mMpjPSPF...@brightview.co.uk>,
meters have them. But cost more than a cheap DVM to replace.
--
*Husband and cat lost -- reward for cat
newshound <news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:
> > How would that solve the problem as yuo;d have to replace the smaller
> > triac ? I't slike putting in a smaller fuse in uo plug to protect the
> > mains fuse, what would be the point ?
> >
> Because a two pin plug-in component would be easier to replace than a
> surface mounted three pad one?
> Particularly in a device with replaceable bulbs (admittedly they are
> becoming rarer).
> I can see the production engineering logic though. Especially if the
> dimmer unit is modular and easily replaced.
You can get user replaceable fuses that will protect semiconductors. Fluke
> > How would that solve the problem as yuo;d have to replace the smaller
> > triac ? I't slike putting in a smaller fuse in uo plug to protect the
> > mains fuse, what would be the point ?
> >
> Because a two pin plug-in component would be easier to replace than a
> surface mounted three pad one?
> Particularly in a device with replaceable bulbs (admittedly they are
> becoming rarer).
> I can see the production engineering logic though. Especially if the
> dimmer unit is modular and easily replaced.
meters have them. But cost more than a cheap DVM to replace.
--
*Husband and cat lost -- reward for cat
Peter Parry
Mar 7, 2017, 11:16:06 AM3/7/17
to
On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 14:38:35 GMT, pamela <inv...@nospam.com> wrote:
>Maybe easily replaced but pricey. The particular timer block
>costs 20 Euros from Germany and a UK store which is out of stock
>had them for £20.
5 for £7.36 including postage.
http://tinyurl.com/js43uah
>Maybe easily replaced but pricey. The particular timer block
>costs 20 Euros from Germany and a UK store which is out of stock
>had them for £20.
5 for £7.36 including postage.
http://tinyurl.com/js43uah
Rod Speed
Mar 7, 2017, 2:18:27 PM3/7/17
to
news:XnsA73194F...@81.171.118.178...
>
> The desk lamp cost less than that!
So get a clue and get a LED one that not only doesn’t kill the
dimmer when it dies, doesn’t have bulb fail at anything like the
rate your old dinosaurs do, and saves a bit of electricity too.
You're doing what the dinosaurs did when cars became
viable, keep rabitting on about how to feed the horses.
> Maybe easily replaced but pricey. The particular timer block
> costs 20 Euros from Germany and a UK store which is out of stock
> had them for £20.
>
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/191974965659
> costs 20 Euros from Germany and a UK store which is out of stock
> had them for £20.
>
>
> The desk lamp cost less than that!
So get a clue and get a LED one that not only doesn’t kill the
dimmer when it dies, doesn’t have bulb fail at anything like the
rate your old dinosaurs do, and saves a bit of electricity too.
You're doing what the dinosaurs did when cars became
viable, keep rabitting on about how to feed the horses.
Peter Parry
Mar 7, 2017, 5:16:55 PM3/7/17
to
On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 18:03:55 GMT, pamela <inv...@nospam.com> wrote:
>On 16:15 7 Mar 2017, Peter Parry wrote:
>> 5 for Ł7.36 including postage.
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/js43uah
>
>I'm far from comfortable about giving my credit card details to a
>Chinese company. There are several sites where people recount
>their unhappy experiences. :-(
Aliexpress is part of Alibaba, a multi billion turnover company that
really doesn't need to cheat people out of a few dollars. Your credit
card details don't go to the individual sellers. I've ordered many
things in the last few years without any problems at all.
You have the normal issues of counterfeit items as you do on eBay and
I wouldn't spend $200 on one item but for components and low value
stuff they are excellent. Delivery times are very slow - mainly
because the "space available" deals they do with China Post and the
like are slow, you can pay more for quicker service.
>On 16:15 7 Mar 2017, Peter Parry wrote:
>> 5 for Ł7.36 including postage.
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/js43uah
>
>I'm far from comfortable about giving my credit card details to a
>Chinese company. There are several sites where people recount
>their unhappy experiences. :-(
Aliexpress is part of Alibaba, a multi billion turnover company that
really doesn't need to cheat people out of a few dollars. Your credit
card details don't go to the individual sellers. I've ordered many
things in the last few years without any problems at all.
You have the normal issues of counterfeit items as you do on eBay and
I wouldn't spend $200 on one item but for components and low value
stuff they are excellent. Delivery times are very slow - mainly
because the "space available" deals they do with China Post and the
like are slow, you can pay more for quicker service.
tabb...@gmail.com
Mar 8, 2017, 6:09:58 AM3/8/17
to
On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 22:16:55 UTC, Peter Parry wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 18:03:55 GMT, pamela <inv...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >I'm far from comfortable about giving my credit card details to a
> >Chinese company. There are several sites where people recount
> >their unhappy experiences. :-(
>
> Aliexpress is part of Alibaba, a multi billion turnover company that
> really doesn't need to cheat people out of a few dollars. Your credit
but do anyway, according to reports on here.
> On Tue, 07 Mar 2017 18:03:55 GMT, pamela <inv...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >I'm far from comfortable about giving my credit card details to a
> >Chinese company. There are several sites where people recount
> >their unhappy experiences. :-(
>
> Aliexpress is part of Alibaba, a multi billion turnover company that
> really doesn't need to cheat people out of a few dollars. Your credit
Capitol
Mar 8, 2017, 6:17:19 AM3/8/17
to
Capitol
Mar 8, 2017, 6:22:48 AM3/8/17
to
and the material gives a degree of protection but the normal expensive
solution is to use a very much bigger triac.
tabb...@gmail.com
Mar 8, 2017, 6:35:49 AM3/8/17
to
On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:17:19 UTC, Capitol wrote:
> tabbypurr wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 10:51:33 UTC, Capitol wrote:
> >> tabbypurr wrote:
> >>> On Monday, 6 March 2017 19:34:48 UTC, newshound wrote:
> >>>> On 3/6/2017 4:28 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
> >
> >>>>> Its just not economically feasible to make the dimmer short circuit proof.
> >>>>
> >>>> How much is a decent fast fuse?
> >>>
> >>> about the price of a triac :)
> >
> >> Even then, it probably won't work!
> >
> > why would a smaller triac not fuse to protect the bigger one?
> tabbypurr wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 10:51:33 UTC, Capitol wrote:
> >> tabbypurr wrote:
> >>> On Monday, 6 March 2017 19:34:48 UTC, newshound wrote:
> >>>> On 3/6/2017 4:28 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
> >
> >>>>> Its just not economically feasible to make the dimmer short circuit proof.
> >>>>
> >>>> How much is a decent fast fuse?
> >>>
> >>> about the price of a triac :)
> >
> >> Even then, it probably won't work!
> >
> > why would a smaller triac not fuse to protect the bigger one?
> It would fail short circuit.
it may fail either way. Thus it would reduce cases of lost main triacs.
NT
tabb...@gmail.com
Mar 8, 2017, 6:36:31 AM3/8/17
to
On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:22:48 UTC, Capitol wrote:
> tabbypurr wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 11:39:18 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 11:21:56 UTC, tabby wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 10:51:33 UTC, Capitol wrote:
> >>>> tabbypurr wrote:
> >>>>> On Monday, 6 March 2017 19:34:48 UTC, newshound wrote:
> >>>>>> On 3/6/2017 4:28 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>>> Its just not economically feasible to make the dimmer short circuit proof.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> How much is a decent fast fuse?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> about the price of a triac :)
> >>>
> >>>> Even then, it probably won't work!
> >>>
> >>> why would a smaller triac not fuse to protect the bigger one?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> NT
> >>
> >> How would that solve the problem as yuo;d have to replace the smaller triac ?
> >> I't slike putting in a smaller fuse in uo plug to protect the mains fuse, what would be the point ?
> >
> > Someone wanted a fuse. The smaller triac could be a press-in part, and would be the fuse. The main point is that effective fusing is doable. There are other ways to stop filament arcover taking out triacs too.
> tabbypurr wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 11:39:18 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 11:21:56 UTC, tabby wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 10:51:33 UTC, Capitol wrote:
> >>>> tabbypurr wrote:
> >>>>> On Monday, 6 March 2017 19:34:48 UTC, newshound wrote:
> >>>>>> On 3/6/2017 4:28 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>>> Its just not economically feasible to make the dimmer short circuit proof.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> How much is a decent fast fuse?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> about the price of a triac :)
> >>>
> >>>> Even then, it probably won't work!
> >>>
> >>> why would a smaller triac not fuse to protect the bigger one?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> NT
> >>
> >> How would that solve the problem as yuo;d have to replace the smaller triac ?
> >> I't slike putting in a smaller fuse in uo plug to protect the mains fuse, what would be the point ?
> >
> > Someone wanted a fuse. The smaller triac could be a press-in part, and would be the fuse. The main point is that effective fusing is doable. There are other ways to stop filament arcover taking out triacs too.
> Fuses don't work on all occasions. The mechanical design of the fuse
> and the material gives a degree of protection but the normal expensive
> solution is to use a very much bigger triac.
A bigger triac helps, but you'd need a huge triac to be safe from arcover failure.
> and the material gives a degree of protection but the normal expensive
> solution is to use a very much bigger triac.
NT
Capitol
Mar 8, 2017, 7:10:06 AM3/8/17
to
current will it fail open circuit.
Dave Plowman (News)
Mar 8, 2017, 8:46:26 AM3/8/17
to
In article <db413676-d73b-4c7b...@googlegroups.com>,
than open circuit. Ordinary dimmers pretty well always do. So the light
can still be switched on. but not dimmed.
--
*I brake for no apparent reason.
<tabb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > why would a smaller triac not fuse to protect the bigger one?
> > It would fail short circuit.
> it may fail either way. Thus it would reduce cases of lost main triacs.
Far more common here to have a solid state 'switch' fail short circuit
> > > why would a smaller triac not fuse to protect the bigger one?
> > It would fail short circuit.
> it may fail either way. Thus it would reduce cases of lost main triacs.
than open circuit. Ordinary dimmers pretty well always do. So the light
can still be switched on. but not dimmed.
--
*I brake for no apparent reason.
whisky-dave
Mar 8, 2017, 8:51:14 AM3/8/17
to
tabb...@gmail.com
Mar 8, 2017, 9:06:37 AM3/8/17
to
On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 13:51:14 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
NT
> On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:35:49 UTC, tabby wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:17:19 UTC, Capitol wrote:
> > > tabbypurr wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 10:51:33 UTC, Capitol wrote:
> > > >> tabbypurr wrote:
> > > >>> On Monday, 6 March 2017 19:34:48 UTC, newshound wrote:
> > > >>>> On 3/6/2017 4:28 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>>>> Its just not economically feasible to make the dimmer short circuit proof.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> How much is a decent fast fuse?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> about the price of a triac :)
> > > >
> > > >> Even then, it probably won't work!
> > > >
> > > > why would a smaller triac not fuse to protect the bigger one?
> >
> > > It would fail short circuit.
> >
> > it may fail either way. Thus it would reduce cases of lost main triacs.
> > On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:17:19 UTC, Capitol wrote:
> > > tabbypurr wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 10:51:33 UTC, Capitol wrote:
> > > >> tabbypurr wrote:
> > > >>> On Monday, 6 March 2017 19:34:48 UTC, newshound wrote:
> > > >>>> On 3/6/2017 4:28 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>>>> Its just not economically feasible to make the dimmer short circuit proof.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> How much is a decent fast fuse?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> about the price of a triac :)
> > > >
> > > >> Even then, it probably won't work!
> > > >
> > > > why would a smaller triac not fuse to protect the bigger one?
> >
> > > It would fail short circuit.
> >
> > it may fail either way. Thus it would reduce cases of lost main triacs.
> Be better off using a better traic for the job in the first place.
wrong answer. as ever.
NT
whisky-dave
Mar 8, 2017, 10:29:42 AM3/8/17
to
bm
Mar 8, 2017, 12:39:13 PM3/8/17
to
"whisky-dave" <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8bbc783d-e950-4523...@googlegroups.com...
What spec traic would you suggest to handle a short?
tabb...@gmail.com
Mar 8, 2017, 6:28:58 PM3/8/17
to
On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 15:29:42 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
NT
> On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 14:06:37 UTC, tabby wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 13:51:14 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:35:49 UTC, tabby wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:17:19 UTC, Capitol wrote:
> > > > > tabbypurr wrote:
> > > > > > On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 10:51:33 UTC, Capitol wrote:
> > > > > >> tabbypurr wrote:
> > > > > >>> On Monday, 6 March 2017 19:34:48 UTC, newshound wrote:
> > > > > >>>> On 3/6/2017 4:28 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>>>> Its just not economically feasible to make the dimmer short circuit proof.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> How much is a decent fast fuse?
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> about the price of a triac :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Even then, it probably won't work!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > why would a smaller triac not fuse to protect the bigger one?
> > > >
> > > > > It would fail short circuit.
> > > >
> > > > it may fail either way. Thus it would reduce cases of lost main triacs.
> >
> > > Be better off using a better traic for the job in the first place.
> >
> > wrong answer. as ever.
>
> > On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 13:51:14 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:35:49 UTC, tabby wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:17:19 UTC, Capitol wrote:
> > > > > tabbypurr wrote:
> > > > > > On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 10:51:33 UTC, Capitol wrote:
> > > > > >> tabbypurr wrote:
> > > > > >>> On Monday, 6 March 2017 19:34:48 UTC, newshound wrote:
> > > > > >>>> On 3/6/2017 4:28 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>>>> Its just not economically feasible to make the dimmer short circuit proof.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> How much is a decent fast fuse?
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> about the price of a triac :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Even then, it probably won't work!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > why would a smaller triac not fuse to protect the bigger one?
> > > >
> > > > > It would fail short circuit.
> > > >
> > > > it may fail either way. Thus it would reduce cases of lost main triacs.
> >
> > > Be better off using a better traic for the job in the first place.
> >
> > wrong answer. as ever.
>
> Correct answer as always, which is what most would do and that is why you don't see dimmer switches with replaceable traics or replacable fuses.
I think you inhabit Planet Triac.
NT
tabb...@gmail.com
Mar 8, 2017, 6:30:42 PM3/8/17
to
On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 17:39:13 UTC, bm wrote:
> "whisky-dave" <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:8bbc783d-e950-4523...@googlegroups.com...
> "whisky-dave" <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:8bbc783d-e950-4523...@googlegroups.com...
> > On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 14:06:37 UTC, tabby wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 13:51:14 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
> >> > On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:35:49 UTC, tabby wrote:
> >> > Be better off using a better traic for the job in the first place.
> >>
> >> wrong answer. as ever.
> >
> >> On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 13:51:14 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
> >> > On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:35:49 UTC, tabby wrote:
> >> > Be better off using a better traic for the job in the first place.
> >>
> >> wrong answer. as ever.
> >
> > Correct answer as always, which is what most would do and that is why you
> > don't see dimmer switches with replaceable traics or replacable fuses.
>
> I can/do replace the traics in mine.
> What spec traic would you suggest to handle a short?
why a mere 300A job of course. I can't believe he's ever done it.
> > don't see dimmer switches with replaceable traics or replacable fuses.
>
> I can/do replace the traics in mine.
> What spec traic would you suggest to handle a short?
NT
Capitol
Mar 9, 2017, 5:29:55 AM3/9/17
to
tabb...@gmail.com
Mar 9, 2017, 3:11:15 PM3/9/17
to
On Thursday, 9 March 2017 10:29:55 UTC, Capitol wrote:
> tabbypurr wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 13:51:14 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:35:49 UTC, tabby wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:17:19 UTC, Capitol wrote:
> >>>> tabbypurr wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 10:51:33 UTC, Capitol wrote:
> >>>>>> tabbypurr wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Monday, 6 March 2017 19:34:48 UTC, newshound wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 3/6/2017 4:28 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Its just not economically feasible to make the dimmer short circuit proof.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> How much is a decent fast fuse?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> about the price of a triac :)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Even then, it probably won't work!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> why would a smaller triac not fuse to protect the bigger one?
> >>>
> >>>> It would fail short circuit.
> >>>
> >>> it may fail either way. Thus it would reduce cases of lost main triacs.
> >
> >> Be better off using a better traic for the job in the first place.
> >
> > wrong answer. as ever.
> tabbypurr wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 13:51:14 UTC, whisky-dave wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:35:49 UTC, tabby wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 11:17:19 UTC, Capitol wrote:
> >>>> tabbypurr wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, 7 March 2017 10:51:33 UTC, Capitol wrote:
> >>>>>> tabbypurr wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Monday, 6 March 2017 19:34:48 UTC, newshound wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On 3/6/2017 4:28 PM, Rod Speed wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Its just not economically feasible to make the dimmer short circuit proof.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> How much is a decent fast fuse?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> about the price of a triac :)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Even then, it probably won't work!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> why would a smaller triac not fuse to protect the bigger one?
> >>>
> >>>> It would fail short circuit.
> >>>
> >>> it may fail either way. Thus it would reduce cases of lost main triacs.
> >
> >> Be better off using a better traic for the job in the first place.
> >
> > wrong answer. as ever.
> You have obviously never designed triac circuitry.
I see. Why don't you tell us which triac you'd pick to handle that 300A arcover current?
NT
whisky-dave
Mar 10, 2017, 9:51:47 AM3/10/17
to
On Wednesday, 8 March 2017 17:39:13 UTC, bm wrote:
> What spec traic would you suggest to handle a short?
Dave Plowman (News)
Mar 10, 2017, 10:20:26 AM3/10/17
to
In article <3186269e-1b0c-417e...@googlegroups.com>,
students? And you don't know where to buy triacs?
--
*Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder *
whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I can/do replace the traics in mine.
> And where do you get these traics ?
Thought part of your job was sourcing electronic components for your
> > I can/do replace the traics in mine.
> And where do you get these traics ?
students? And you don't know where to buy triacs?
--
*Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder *
bm
Mar 10, 2017, 10:35:10 AM3/10/17
to
news:3186269e-1b0c-417e...@googlegroups.com...
They must do, you keep typing them.
whisky-dave
Mar 13, 2017, 7:32:28 AM3/13/17
to
On Friday, 10 March 2017 15:20:26 UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <3186269e-1b0c-417e...@googlegroups.com>,
> whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I can/do replace the traics in mine.
>
> > And where do you get these traics ?
>
> Thought part of your job was sourcing electronic components for your
> students? And you don't know where to buy triacs?
I do but not one that are rated at 300 amps.
> In article <3186269e-1b0c-417e...@googlegroups.com>,
> whisky-dave <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I can/do replace the traics in mine.
>
> > And where do you get these traics ?
>
> Thought part of your job was sourcing electronic components for your
> students? And you don't know where to buy triacs?
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