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The Medway Handyman
Jul 15, 2012, 6:51:02 AM7/15/12
to
Doing various jobs at a lady's house, one of which was to replace the
pull cord switch in her en suite. Like for like, should have been simple.
Three story town house, en suite and common bathroom on the same floor.
One extractor fan vents both bathrooms via trunking.
The switch had failed mechanically as pull cords often do, but this one
was a weirdo.
Two cables coming in, both three core & earth, so red, yellow, blue.
The switch (Tenby MG888) had 4 terminals + earth.
Top left = COM, top right = N, bottom left = 1 WAY, bottom right = 2 WAY.
Never seen one of these before.
Cable 1 wired yellow to COM, red to 1 WAY, blue joined to blue in Cable 2.
Cable 2 wired yellow to COM, red to 1 WAY, blue joined to blue from Cable 1.
Terminals 1 WAY and 2 WAY are linked by a red cable.
I assume it's wired so that the switch in either bathroom triggers the
fan (which is on a timer).
Three visits to electrical wholesalers & a web search doesn't find a
Tenby MG 888 switch, so I've e mailed the manufacturers.
Not knowing how the switch 'switches' I can't figure out how it would
work or what alternative I can use if I can't locate a replacement switch.
This has even caused the knowledgeable & helpful Mr Wadsworth to scratch
his head!
Any thoughts?
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
pull cord switch in her en suite. Like for like, should have been simple.
Three story town house, en suite and common bathroom on the same floor.
One extractor fan vents both bathrooms via trunking.
The switch had failed mechanically as pull cords often do, but this one
was a weirdo.
Two cables coming in, both three core & earth, so red, yellow, blue.
The switch (Tenby MG888) had 4 terminals + earth.
Top left = COM, top right = N, bottom left = 1 WAY, bottom right = 2 WAY.
Never seen one of these before.
Cable 1 wired yellow to COM, red to 1 WAY, blue joined to blue in Cable 2.
Cable 2 wired yellow to COM, red to 1 WAY, blue joined to blue from Cable 1.
Terminals 1 WAY and 2 WAY are linked by a red cable.
I assume it's wired so that the switch in either bathroom triggers the
fan (which is on a timer).
Three visits to electrical wholesalers & a web search doesn't find a
Tenby MG 888 switch, so I've e mailed the manufacturers.
Not knowing how the switch 'switches' I can't figure out how it would
work or what alternative I can use if I can't locate a replacement switch.
This has even caused the knowledgeable & helpful Mr Wadsworth to scratch
his head!
Any thoughts?
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
Roger Mills
Jul 15, 2012, 7:51:07 AM7/15/12
to
joined together in fresh air? Was *anything* connected to the N terminal?
Does the switch have a neon light, which glows when it's 'on'? If so,
that might account for the need for a neutral.
Having terminals marked Com, 1-way and 2-way suggests that it's a
change-over - with Com connected to 1-way in one position, changing to
Com to 2-way when you toggle it. In that case, it's *very* odd to join
1-way and 2-way together, because that means that the switch in *on* in
*both* positions, so that toggling it has now effect!
Are you sure you have reported the wiring correctly? What, according, to
the owner, is it *supposed* to do, and what is the perceived problem
which caused her to ask for it to be replaced?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.
Brian Gaff
Jul 15, 2012, 7:55:18 AM7/15/12
to
Two switches, take the other one that works off and test it?
Brian
--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"The Medway Handyman" <davi...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:rgxMr.624608$2l2.5...@fx01.am4...
Brian
--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"The Medway Handyman" <davi...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:rgxMr.624608$2l2.5...@fx01.am4...
ARWadsworth
Jul 15, 2012, 7:57:02 AM7/15/12
to
Brian Gaff wrote:
> Two switches, take the other one that works off and test it?
That is something we discussed over the phone.But Dave was not on site at
> Two switches, take the other one that works off and test it?
the time.
--
Adam
The Medway Handyman
Jul 15, 2012, 8:11:42 AM7/15/12
to
>
> Does the switch have a neon light, which glows when it's 'on'? If so,
> that might account for the need for a neutral.
Nope.
> Does the switch have a neon light, which glows when it's 'on'? If so,
> that might account for the need for a neutral.
>
> Having terminals marked Com, 1-way and 2-way suggests that it's a
> change-over - with Com connected to 1-way in one position, changing to
> Com to 2-way when you toggle it. In that case, it's *very* odd to join
> 1-way and 2-way together, because that means that the switch in *on* in
> *both* positions, so that toggling it has now effect!
My thoughts exactly!
> Having terminals marked Com, 1-way and 2-way suggests that it's a
> change-over - with Com connected to 1-way in one position, changing to
> Com to 2-way when you toggle it. In that case, it's *very* odd to join
> 1-way and 2-way together, because that means that the switch in *on* in
> *both* positions, so that toggling it has now effect!
>
> Are you sure you have reported the wiring correctly? What, according, to
> the owner, is it *supposed* to do, and what is the perceived problem
> which caused her to ask for it to be replaced?
Pretty sure - I'll post a photo somewhere. The switch failed
> Are you sure you have reported the wiring correctly? What, according, to
> the owner, is it *supposed* to do, and what is the perceived problem
> which caused her to ask for it to be replaced?
mechanically & the light wouldn't come on - or the fan.
ARWadsworth
Jul 15, 2012, 8:13:21 AM7/15/12
to
me. It's a double pole pullcord switch. The reds have been linked up to give
a permanent live to the fan (not that that link is needed), the yellows are
the switched live and the blues in the strip connector are the neutrals.
http://s428.photobucket.com/albums/qq6/adamko2020/?action=view¤t=TMHpullswitch.jpg.
--
Adam
Owain
Jul 15, 2012, 8:14:44 AM7/15/12
to
On Jul 15, 11:51 am, The Medway Handyman <davidl...@blueyonder.co.uk>
wrote:
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.d-i-y/browse_thread/thread/98f7dd24859ce778/59046c4bcfbf94e1
LIVE -------------- SWa Pole 1----------- LIGHT -- Neutral
|
|-- SWa Pole 2-----
|
|
-- SHARED -- Neutral
-- FAN
|
|
|-- SWb Pole 2-----
|
LIVE -------------- SWb Pole 1 ---------- LIGHT -- Neutral
if a timer fan then you will have an unswitched live to the fan as
well.
Owain
wrote:
> One extractor fan vents both bathrooms via trunking.
Should be wired using a double pole switch.
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.d-i-y/browse_thread/thread/98f7dd24859ce778/59046c4bcfbf94e1
LIVE -------------- SWa Pole 1----------- LIGHT -- Neutral
|
|-- SWa Pole 2-----
|
|
-- SHARED -- Neutral
-- FAN
|
|
|-- SWb Pole 2-----
|
LIVE -------------- SWb Pole 1 ---------- LIGHT -- Neutral
if a timer fan then you will have an unswitched live to the fan as
well.
Owain
Owain
Jul 15, 2012, 8:17:58 AM7/15/12
to
On Jul 15, 1:14 pm, Owain <spuorgelg...@gowanhill.com> wrote:
> On Jul 15, 11:51 am, The Medway Handyman <davidl...@blueyonder.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > One extractor fan vents both bathrooms via trunking.
>
> Should be wired using a double pole switch.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/uk.d-i-y/browse_thread/thread/98f7dd24...
> On Jul 15, 11:51 am, The Medway Handyman <davidl...@blueyonder.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > One extractor fan vents both bathrooms via trunking.
>
> Should be wired using a double pole switch.
>
>
> LIVE -------------- SWa Pole 1----------- LIGHT -- Neutral
> |
> |-- SWa Pole 2-----
> |
> |
> -- SHARED -- Neutral
> -- FAN
> |
> |
> |-- SWb Pole 2-----
> |
> LIVE -------------- SWb Pole 1 ---------- LIGHT -- Neutral
>
> if a timer fan then you will have an unswitched live to the fan as
> well.
>
> Owain
Double pole pull switch MK 3151 requires mounting block
> LIVE -------------- SWa Pole 1----------- LIGHT -- Neutral
> |
> |-- SWa Pole 2-----
> |
> |
> -- SHARED -- Neutral
> -- FAN
> |
> |
> |-- SWb Pole 2-----
> |
> LIVE -------------- SWb Pole 1 ---------- LIGHT -- Neutral
>
> if a timer fan then you will have an unswitched live to the fan as
> well.
>
> Owain
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MK3151.html
Owain
Owain
Jul 15, 2012, 8:20:36 AM7/15/12
to
On Jul 15, 1:13 pm, "ARWadsworth" wrote:
> I have to say that I still believe it is what I suggested when you phoned
> me. It's a double pole pullcord switch. The reds have been linked up to give
> a permanent live to the fan (not that that link is needed), the yellows are
> the switched live and the blues in the strip connector are the neutrals.
>
> http://s428.photobucket.com/albums/qq6/adamko2020/?action=view¤....
> I have to say that I still believe it is what I suggested when you phoned
> me. It's a double pole pullcord switch. The reds have been linked up to give
> a permanent live to the fan (not that that link is needed), the yellows are
> the switched live and the blues in the strip connector are the neutrals.
>
I agree. And the link between the two poles is needed to provide a
live to the right-hand yellow switched live.
Owain
Roger Mills
Jul 15, 2012, 9:49:51 AM7/15/12
to
poles to be labelled Com, 1-way, 2-way and N [1]. Has TMH misead them?
[1] I'm not sure what I *would* expect to see, but not that!
The Medway Handyman
Jul 15, 2012, 9:54:34 AM7/15/12
to
On 15/07/2012 13:14, Owain wrote:
Owain
Jul 15, 2012, 1:58:50 PM7/15/12
to
On Jul 15, 2:54 pm, The Medway Handyman wrote:
> Ta. So how does that translate to wiring colours?
Red - perm live in, perm live to fan
> Ta. So how does that translate to wiring colours?
Yellow - switched live to light, switched live to fan
Blue - neutral in, neutral to fan
RED -------------- SWa Pole 1-------YLW1---- LIGHT -- (neutral not
present at switch)
|
|-- SWa Pole 2----YLW2-----| (sw live to trigger)
| |
|-----------------RED----SHARED (perm live to
fan)
FAN
|
BLUE ------------------CHOCKY-------BLUE-----| (neutral to fan)
Owain
Owain
Jul 15, 2012, 2:04:05 PM7/15/12
to
On Jul 15, 2:54 pm, The Medway Handyman <davidl...@blueyonder.co.uk>
wrote:
Note the N to the light is not present at the switch
RED ----------- SWa Pole 1----YLW1---LIGHT--> N.
FAN
|
BLUE-------------CHOCKY-------BLUE-----| (neutral to fan)
Owain
wrote:
> Ta. So how does that translate to wiring colours?
Slightly amended so as not to linewrap. Still requires fixed font.
Note the N to the light is not present at the switch
RED ----------- SWa Pole 1----YLW1---LIGHT--> N.
|
|-- SWa Pole 2----YLW2-----| (sw live to trigger)
| |
|-----------------RED----SHARED (perm L to fan)
|-- SWa Pole 2----YLW2-----| (sw live to trigger)
| |
FAN
|
BLUE-------------CHOCKY-------BLUE-----| (neutral to fan)
Owain
jgharston
Jul 15, 2012, 4:25:40 PM7/15/12
to
(snip Owain's diagram)
This is exactly why I wire up so there's exactly one
unambiguous cable at each switch/outlet/whatever
and do all the voodoo in junction boxes. Even
tho' it's depreciated, I've had too many calls
from people who've taken a switch or ceiling
rose off and can't get any further.
Or worse, "I joined all the reds, and all the blacks,
and all the greens, but when I try to turn the light
off the fuse blows"
JGH
This is exactly why I wire up so there's exactly one
unambiguous cable at each switch/outlet/whatever
and do all the voodoo in junction boxes. Even
tho' it's depreciated, I've had too many calls
from people who've taken a switch or ceiling
rose off and can't get any further.
Or worse, "I joined all the reds, and all the blacks,
and all the greens, but when I try to turn the light
off the fuse blows"
JGH
ARWadsworth
Jul 21, 2012, 4:21:39 AM7/21/12
to
Owain
Jul 21, 2012, 6:53:28 AM7/21/12
to
On Jul 21, 9:21 am, "ARWadsworth" wrote:
> http://www.electrika.com/f/0550-legrand-w-10-11/#/182/
>
> part number 0611 30
Is that momentary or latching?
> http://www.electrika.com/f/0550-legrand-w-10-11/#/182/
>
> part number 0611 30
Owain
ARWadsworth
Jul 21, 2012, 7:52:38 AM7/21/12
to
--
Adam
Owain
Jul 21, 2012, 4:07:38 PM7/21/12
to
On Jul 21, 12:52 pm, "ARWadsworth" wrote:
> > > part number 0611 30
> > Is that momentary or latching?
> I cannot see anything that suggests that is a momentary switch.
My error, I forgot this application requires a latching switch.
> > > part number 0611 30
> > Is that momentary or latching?
> I cannot see anything that suggests that is a momentary switch.
Owain
The Medway Handyman
Jul 25, 2012, 12:15:09 PM7/25/12
to
It has L & N Supply at the top and L & N Load at the bottom.
So, do I wire it;
2 x reds to L Load, link to N Load, blues together, yellows to L & N Supply?
Owain
Jul 25, 2012, 5:07:55 PM7/25/12
to
On Jul 25, 5:15 pm, The Medway Handyman wrote:
> OK, I have located the switch Owain suggested.
> It has L & N Supply at the top and L & N Load at the bottom.
> So, do I wire it;
>
> 2 x reds to L Load, link to N Load, blues together, yellows to L & N Supply?
No, you put the supply in the Supply side and the load in the Load
> OK, I have located the switch Owain suggested.
> It has L & N Supply at the top and L & N Load at the bottom.
> So, do I wire it;
>
> 2 x reds to L Load, link to N Load, blues together, yellows to L & N Supply?
side :-)
RED ---------|--SUPPLY 1 LOAD---YLW1
|
RED ---------|--SUPPLY 2 LOAD---YLW2
BLUE --------|
|
BLEU --------|
Owain
The Medway Handyman
Jul 25, 2012, 7:24:52 PM7/25/12
to
YLW1?
YLW2?
Andy Burns
Jul 25, 2012, 7:33:00 PM7/25/12
to
The Medway Handyman wrote:
> On 25/07/2012 22:07, Owain wrote:
>
>> RED ---------|--SUPPLY 1 LOAD---YLW1
>> |
>> RED ---------|--SUPPLY 2 LOAD---YLW2
>>
>>
>> BLUE --------|
>> |
>> BLEU --------|
>
> No Link?
> On 25/07/2012 22:07, Owain wrote:
>
>> RED ---------|--SUPPLY 1 LOAD---YLW1
>> |
>> RED ---------|--SUPPLY 2 LOAD---YLW2
>>
>>
>> BLUE --------|
>> |
>> BLEU --------|
>
Both reds (assume one is loop in, other is loop out to other switches
and they were wired together before) to Supply1 (AKA SupplyL) with link
to Supply2 (AKA SupplyN)
> YLW1?
> YLW2?
Yellows, can't remember your original wiring scheme but Load1 (AKA
LoadL) to your light and Load2 (AKA LoadN) to you fan.
Blues wired together (if they were before)
Owain
Jul 25, 2012, 7:40:43 PM7/25/12
to
On Jul 26, 12:24 am, The Medway Handyman <davidl...@blueyonder.co.uk>
wrote:
>
> YLW1?
>
> YLW2?
You have a link between the two Reds and the two Supply terminals.
Yellow 1
Yellow 2
http://tinypic.com/r/s3n8xu/6
Owain
wrote:
> > No, you put the supply in the Supply side and the load in the Load
> > side :-)
> No Link?
> > side :-)
>
> YLW1?
>
> YLW2?
You have a link between the two Reds and the two Supply terminals.
Yellow 1
Yellow 2
http://tinypic.com/r/s3n8xu/6
Owain
ARWadsworth
Jul 26, 2012, 4:59:42 PM7/26/12
to
--
Adam
Andy Wade
Jul 26, 2012, 6:04:40 PM7/26/12
to
On 25/07/2012 22:07, Owain wrote:
> [...]
> BLUE --------|
> |
> BLEU --------|
A cross-channel circuit...?
--
Andy
Owain
Jul 26, 2012, 8:46:27 PM7/26/12
to
On Jul 26, 11:04 pm, Andy Wade wrote:
> > BLUE --------|
> > |
> > BLEU --------|
>
> A cross-channel circuit...?
We've got windmills.
> > BLUE --------|
> > |
> > BLEU --------|
>
> A cross-channel circuit...?
They've got nuclear.
Owain
The Medway Handyman
Aug 9, 2012, 3:47:40 PM8/9/12
to
On 15/07/2012 11:51, The Medway Handyman wrote:
> Doing various jobs at a lady's house, one of which was to replace the
> pull cord switch in her en suite. Like for like, should have been simple.
>
> Three story town house, en suite and common bathroom on the same floor.
>
> Doing various jobs at a lady's house, one of which was to replace the
> pull cord switch in her en suite. Like for like, should have been simple.
>
> Three story town house, en suite and common bathroom on the same floor.
>
> One extractor fan vents both bathrooms via trunking.
>
>
> The switch had failed mechanically as pull cords often do, but this one
> was a weirdo.
>
> Two cables coming in, both three core & earth, so red, yellow, blue.
>
> The switch (Tenby MG888) had 4 terminals + earth.
>
> Top left = COM, top right = N, bottom left = 1 WAY, bottom right = 2 WAY.
>
> Never seen one of these before.
>
> Cable 1 wired yellow to COM, red to 1 WAY, blue joined to blue in Cable 2.
>
> Cable 2 wired yellow to COM, red to 1 WAY, blue joined to blue from
> Cable 1.
>
> Terminals 1 WAY and 2 WAY are linked by a red cable.
>
> I assume it's wired so that the switch in either bathroom triggers the
> fan (which is on a timer).
>
> Three visits to electrical wholesalers & a web search doesn't find a
> Tenby MG 888 switch, so I've e mailed the manufacturers.
>
> Not knowing how the switch 'switches' I can't figure out how it would
> work or what alternative I can use if I can't locate a replacement switch.
>
> This has even caused the knowledgeable & helpful Mr Wadsworth to scratch
> his head!
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
Went back today with a double pole switch, wired it in as advised -
> was a weirdo.
>
> Two cables coming in, both three core & earth, so red, yellow, blue.
>
> The switch (Tenby MG888) had 4 terminals + earth.
>
> Top left = COM, top right = N, bottom left = 1 WAY, bottom right = 2 WAY.
>
> Never seen one of these before.
>
> Cable 1 wired yellow to COM, red to 1 WAY, blue joined to blue in Cable 2.
>
> Cable 2 wired yellow to COM, red to 1 WAY, blue joined to blue from
> Cable 1.
>
> Terminals 1 WAY and 2 WAY are linked by a red cable.
>
> I assume it's wired so that the switch in either bathroom triggers the
> fan (which is on a timer).
>
> Three visits to electrical wholesalers & a web search doesn't find a
> Tenby MG 888 switch, so I've e mailed the manufacturers.
>
> Not knowing how the switch 'switches' I can't figure out how it would
> work or what alternative I can use if I can't locate a replacement switch.
>
> This has even caused the knowledgeable & helpful Mr Wadsworth to scratch
> his head!
>
> Any thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
worked a treat - everything working as it should do.
Many thanks everyone, especially Adam & Owain.
Owain
Aug 9, 2012, 5:51:38 PM8/9/12
to
On Aug 9, 8:47 pm, The Medway Handyman wrote:
> Went back today with a double pole switch, wired it in as advised -
> worked a treat - everything working as it should do.
Has that poor woman been without a light / fan in her bog since 15
> Went back today with a double pole switch, wired it in as advised -
> worked a treat - everything working as it should do.
July???
> Many thanks everyone, especially Adam & Owain.
Owain
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