Microwave oven interferes with Alexa

[GB]

We have our Amazon Echo Dot next to our built in microwave oven.
Starting the oven stops the Echo picking up a wifi signal. Is this a
sign of excessive leakage, or is it simply par for the course?

[The Natural Philosopher]

yes, and yes


--
In a Time of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act.

- George Orwell

[Max Demian]

On 25/05/2022 14:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 25/05/2022 12:53, GB wrote:

>> We have our Amazon Echo Dot next to our built in microwave oven.
>> Starting the oven stops the Echo picking up a wifi signal. Is this a
>> sign of excessive leakage, or is it simply par for the course?
>>
> yes, and yes

I find my microwave (and washer) sometimes interfere with FM radio, but
not a Bluetooth speaker put on top. Come to think of it, it doesn't stop
my smartphone from streaming podcasts over Wi-Fi if put near.

--
Max Demian

[Rod Speed]

On Wed, 25 May 2022 21:53:20 +1000, GB <NOTso...@microsoft.invalid>
wrote:

> We have our Amazon Echo Dot next to our built in microwave oven.
> Starting the oven stops the Echo picking up a wifi signal. Is this a
> sign of excessive leakage,

Yes. My Alexa is only a couple of feet from the door of the microwave
with them both on opposite sides of the aisle between them but with
alexa at about crotch height, and the microwave on the bench top
and I don't get that effect at all.

> or is it simply par for the course?

No.

[Joey]

On Wed, 25 May 2022 23:10:13 +1000, The Natural Philosopher
<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 25/05/2022 12:53, GB wrote:
>> We have our Amazon Echo Dot next to our built in microwave oven.
>> Starting the oven stops the Echo picking up a wifi signal. Is this a
>> sign of excessive leakage, or is it simply par for the course?
>>
> yes,

Correct.

> and yes

No, doesn't happen with mine.

[Peeler]

On Thu, 26 May 2022 04:03:15 +1000, Joey, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

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[Peeler]

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[williamwright]

On 25/05/2022 12:53, GB wrote:

Microwaves produce hundreds of watts of radio signal at 2.4GHz, which is
one of the frequencies wi-fi uses. If only a tiny fraction of that
signal escapes from the oven it's enough to interfere with a nearby
wi-fi receiving device.

It's perfectly normal and you won't find an oven that doesn't do it.

Disregard answers here that are along the lines of 'mine does it' or
mine doesn't do it', because they have no relevance to your situation.
There are too many variables. The strength of the wi-fi signal the
device is trying to receive can vary enormously because of distance and
obstructions. The stronger it is the stronger interference would need to
be to have an effect. The noise floor (interference from other wi-fi
gear, typically) can be very significant and that will affect the level
of interference from the oven that will have an effect.

You put any wi-fi receiver near a microwave oven and you are likely to
get interference. It doesn't mean the oven is leaky.

Bill

[GB]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. It's not a problem that Alexa cuts
out occasionally, but I was vaguely worried about radiation affecting
people in the house.

Thinking about it a bit more logically and less hysterically, though,
2.4GHz is not ionising radiation. So, it presumably just warms you up
slightly?

[Animal]

yes, which is not a problem.

[Rod Speed]

williamwright <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote

> GB wrote

>> We have our Amazon Echo Dot next to our built in microwave oven.
>> Starting the oven stops the Echo picking up a wifi signal. Is this a
>> sign of excessive leakage, or is it simply par for the course?

> Microwaves produce hundreds of watts of radio signal at 2.4GHz, which is
> one of the frequencies wi-fi uses. If only a tiny fraction of that
> signal escapes from the oven it's enough to interfere with a nearby
> wi-fi receiving device.

> It's perfectly normal and you won't find an oven that doesn't do it.

Neither of mine interfere with my alexa which is right next to both of
them.

> Disregard answers here that are along the lines of 'mine does it' or
> mine doesn't do it', because they have no relevance to your situation.

Even sillier than you usually manage and that's saying something.

> There are too many variables. The strength of the wi-fi signal the
> device is trying to receive can vary enormously because of distance and
> obstructions.

But when the alexa is adjacent to the microwave oven
and still works fine when the microwave oven is in use.

> The stronger it is the stronger interference would need to be to have an

> effect. The noise floor (interference from otherwi-fi gear, typically)
> can be very significant and that will affectthe level of interference

> from the oven that will have an effect.

> You put any wi-fi receiver near a microwave oven and you arelikely to

> get interference. It doesn't mean the oven is leaky.

But it does when others find that the alexa keeps working fine with the
microwave in use.

[Rod Speed]

On Thu, 26 May 2022 06:01:55 +1000, GB <NOTso...@microsoft.invalid>
wrote:

No, it can produce cataracts.

[Joey]

No, which is why microwave ovens turn off the microwaves when you open
the door and conventional ovens don't.

[Peeler]

On Thu, 26 May 2022 06:32:46 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

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[Peeler]

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[williamwright]

On 25/05/2022 21:01, GB wrote:
> Thinking about it a bit more logically and less hysterically, though,
> 2.4GHz is not ionising radiation. So, it presumably just warms you up
> slightly?

Put a glass of water near the oven. Run the oven for a good while.
Observe if the temperature of the water rises. Then allow for the
inverse square law, because you won't be so close to the oven.

Bill

[williamwright]

On 25/05/2022 21:30, Rod Speed wrote:
>> You put any wi-fi receiver near a microwave oven and you arelikely to
>> get interference. It doesn't mean the oven is leaky.
>
> But it does when others find that the alexa keeps working fine with the
> microwave in use.

No, their experience is irrelevant for the reasons I explained, fuckwit.

Bill

[Rod Speed]

williamwright <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote

> Rod Speed wrote

>>> You put any wi-fi receiver near a microwave oven and you are
>>> likely to get interference. It doesn't mean the oven is leaky.

>> But it does when others find that the alexa keeps working fine with
>> the microwave in use.

> No, their experience is irrelevant for the reasons I explained,

You didn't explain, you stupidly pig ignorantly claimed, fuckwit.

[Brian]

Echo Dots, especially the Gen 2 ones, seem to have very poor Wi-Fi.

We have several and there are a couple of places which, while other things
work fine on the Wi-Fi there, the dots tend to drop connection.

Neither place is more than 3 m from a router or Wi-Fi disk ( we have a mesh
system in the house, the other place is in the motorhome. The router is
perhaps 1.5 m from the dot. )

[John Walliker]

There are several reasons why microwave oven interference may affect
Alexa in one household but not others:
1) Alexa is a dual-band WiFi device. If it connects to the WiFi base unit
at 5GHz then it is unlikely to be affected. Many older base units are 2.4GHz
only, in which case there is a much greater chance of interference.
2) If the base unit is a long way away, even with a dual-band unit there
is a greater chance that it will pick the 2.4GHz band because this usually has
better range.
3) If the 2.4GHz band is in use then if a channel has been picked which
is near the middle of the band it is more likely to coincide with the oven frequency.
So avoid channel 6 and try using channels 1 or 13. Avoid using 40Mhz wide
channels on the 2.4GHz band, stick to 20MHz. Otherwise you will still
overlap with the centre of the band.
4) Microwave ovens vary. The target frequency will be the centre of the band,
but the tuning is affected by how much food is in the oven and where it is.
As the turntable rotates the loading presented by an off-centre load varies
and so does the magnetron frequency. Either channel 1 or 13 is more
likely to miss this moving target but you will have to try it out to find which
is better.
The leakage power from a microwave oven is likely to be about the same as
the transmitter power of a WiFi base unit.
John

[Harry Bloomfield Esq]

After serious thinking GB wrote :

> So, it presumably just warms you up slightly?

It does to you, what it does to the food - it warms you up very, very
slightly. Not enough leaks out to do you any damage, unless the case of
the oven is in some way damaged.

[Peeler]

On Thu, 26 May 2022 14:04:53 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

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[Rod Speed]

Brian <no...@lid.org> wrote

> GB <NOTso...@microsoft.invalid> wrote

>> We have our Amazon Echo Dot next to our built in microwave oven.
>> Starting the oven stops the Echo picking up a wifi signal. Is this a
>> sign of excessive leakage, or is it simply par for the course?

> Echo Dots, especially the Gen 2 ones, seem to have very poor Wi-Fi.

Mine work fine.

> We have several and there are a couple of places which, while other
> things work fine on the Wi-Fi there, the dots tend to drop connection.

Don't get that with mine.

> Neither place is more than 3 m from a router or Wi-Fi disk ( we havea

> mesh system in the house, the other place is in the motorhome.The router

> is perhaps 1.5 m from the dot. )

I only have the router and all but one of the echo
dots are much further away from it than that.

[Peeler]

On Thu, 26 May 2022 19:27:37 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

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[whisky-dave]

On Wednesday, 25 May 2022 at 21:01:57 UTC+1, GB wrote:

I thought it was down to the channel that your device is comunicating on, try to change the channel of the router
and things you use, as this can also be done if you find intermittant problems which can be down to a Neighbours
device on the same channel.

> Thinking about it a bit more logically and less hysterically, though,
> 2.4GHz is not ionising radiation. So, it presumably just warms you up
> slightly?

Maybe the only heating some will be able to affort this coming winter ;-)

[Paul]

My immediate concern would be with damage to eyesight.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2488031/

"For lower intensities, lens changes may depend on the cumulative dose.
At "nonthermal intensities", microwaves can act as a trigger and
set off changes in the living tissues (e.g. Ca++ efflux). Some
cataract-causing agents (alloxan and galactose) act synergistically
with microwaves. Microwaves also accelerate formation of cataracts due
to diabetes. The corneal endothelium can be damaged by microwaves alone
or in combination with some drugs. Microwave degeneration of retinal nerve
endings and a small increase in retinal permeability were also found in
animals. The effect of long-term low-intensity microwave exposure on
the human lens remains poorly understood."

Smartphones can cause glioma tumors on the side of the head
where you've been sticking the phone. What frequency does
a smartphone work at ?

I don't think leakage from a microwave oven is a joke. Fix it.
Waiting until your eye is all fucked up, that would be sad.

You can get various detectors, like ones that work thermally
and use some kind of liquid crystal material. That would be the
cheapest kind of detector you could get, as a strip of material.

There are also multimeter style devices. One even has a red LED on it which
lights up when the exposure is "too much". These cost 1x to 2x what
a Harbour Freight multimeter would cost. The claim here is "hundreds of dollars",
well, it's just a PIN diode and an ordinary multimeter, so the component
cost should not be expensive.

https://www.wikihow.com/Check-a-Microwave-for-Leaks

Walking away from the machine while it is running, is better than
doing nothing. The penetration of 2.4GHz, reflections and so on,
works just like your Wifi coverage, so the energy can travel some
distance. But then the chemical effects probably fall off at
a different rate, than "receiver sensitivity" would. Walking out
of kitchen and down hallway, is likely good protection. If the
microwave oven door is only held on by one hinge, walk out
into the back yard :-)

One potential way for a microwave to leak, is if a DIY repair person
cuts away the "dome" over the turntable motor, while doing a motor
replacement. Think back to any mods you made.

The door has a "choke" on it. It's a feature on the door, where
the door rests on the metal chassis.

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/microwave-faraday-cage.650830/

The purpose of the choke, is to "short" the microwave signal.
Apparently even if the door is a bit loose, the choke feature still
works to some degree. The door leaks less, if the choke feature is present.
It's a kind of tuned circuit, designed to work at the microwave oven
frequency.

https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/microwave2-png.53051/

There's a lot of plastic in microwave ovens now, so it's hard to
say how the choke cavity is implemented.

Paul

[williamwright]

On 26/05/2022 05:04, Rod Speed wrote:
> You didn't explain, you stupidly pig ignorantly claimed, fuckwit.

I did, but some of my words had several syllables,so I would have lost
you, fuckwit.

Bill

[Tim+]

I hope I never get so bored with life that I waste my remaining time
arguing with known trolls…

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

[Rod Speed]

williamwright <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote

> Rod Speed wrote

>> You didn't explain, you stupidly pig ignorantly claimed, fuckwit.

<reams of your shit any 3 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs>

Whoops, nothing of yours left, wota surprise...

[Peeler]

On Fri, 27 May 2022 06:02:38 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

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[Animal]

That response is so retarded it simply has to be Rod

[Animal]

It's extremely effective & efficient. Safety is less certain.

PS some folks commenting on wifi might be unaware that nukes aren't 2.4GHz, they're around 2.4GHz (most anyway). The output frequency is unstable.

[Joey]

Wota stunning line rational argument you have there, child.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 27 May 2022 09:02:11 +1000, Joey, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

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[John Walliker]

Yes, the target frequency is around 2.45GHz near the centre of the band but
it varies with load and often with the rotation of the turntable. The power
is delivered in short pulses, usually one every mains cycle. When set to
low power, the pulses are still the same size, but they are less frequent.
You are less likely to be affected by interference if you choose a WiFi
channel near one or other edge of the band, in other words channel 1 or 13.
John

[Robin]

On 27/05/2022 08:27, John Walliker wrote:
> When set to
> low power, the pulses are still the same size, but they are less frequent.

unless it is an inverter oven which just reduces the power

--
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reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

[SteveW]

On 27/05/2022 08:38, Tim Streater wrote:

> Much simpler just to throw the Alexa in the bin. No one actually needs one of
> these toys.

Alexa is very useful for my wife - she is disabled and also going
through the menopause, so being able to turn the fan on and off, without
having to struggle up every 10 minutes is of great benefit.

Yes, she could do that with a remote control, but like the TV remote,
it'd just keep disappearing under the cushions or would be left in the
wrong part of the room and she'd have to get up to look for it!

[Fredxx]

Drunk? No surprise replying to yourself with abuse.

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 27/05/2022 08:38, Tim Streater wrote:
> Much simpler just to throw the Alexa in the bin. No one actually needs one of
> these toys.

+1


--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

Anon.

[Rod Speed]

[Peeler]

On Fri, 27 May 2022 21:12:51 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

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[GB]

Why not just stick to Rod, then?

[GB]

On 27/05/2022 10:27, Tim Streater wrote:
> On 27 May 2022 at 10:23:09 BST, SteveW <st...@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:


> That's a good use case, trouble is with it and similar devices is they are
> marketed as being something essential to all our lives.
>

When I was a child, I thought that, possibly in my lifetime, we'd have
computers that we can talk to. What I didn't expect was a talking egg
timer that costs pocket money.

I still wouldn't put it in charge of the air lock, by the way.

[GB]

On 26/05/2022 08:04, John Walliker wrote:

> There are several reasons why microwave oven interference may affect
> Alexa in one household but not others:
> 1) Alexa is a dual-band WiFi device. If it connects to the WiFi base unit
> at 5GHz then it is unlikely to be affected. Many older base units are 2.4GHz
> only, in which case there is a much greater chance of interference.

We have a dual band wifi router, but the direct route to Alexa is
through the middle of my wife's metal filing drawers (WHICH CANNOT BE
MOVED!). Hence the signal received is probably 2.4 Ghz, and somewhat
attenuated. :)

[Rod Speed]

On Sat, 28 May 2022 02:26:59 +1000, GB <NOTso...@microsoft.invalid>
wrote:

Because some fools like that one and the turnip play juvenile
silly buggers, put their fingers in their ears, close their eyes
and chant "nyah nyah, can't hear ya" just like little kids do.

[Rod Speed]

GB <NOTso...@microsoft.invalid> wrote
> Tim Streater wrote

>> SteveW <st...@walker-family.me.uk> wrote

>> That's a good use case,

And it is much more convenient than a non voice controlled
timer and is quite handy for other stuff in the kitchen like the
time of day, temperature outside, humidity etc etc etc.

But alexa isnt as smart as the google home mini.
The home mini allows you to setup multiple timers
with a single name and I use that for most main
meals. 3 timers, one for when the meat goes into
the digitai air fryer, another when the meat is
turned, the third one for when it is plated.

Two different ones of those, because thin schnitzels
need different cooking times to a big chunk of chicken
stuffed with something tasty wrapped in filo pastry etc.

>> trouble is with it and similar devices is they are
>> marketed as being something essential to all our lives.

Even you should be able to work out what it is useful
for you and ignore the marketing bullshit.

> When I was a child, I thought that, possibly in my lifetime, we'd have
> computers that we can talk to. What I didn't expect was a talking egg
> timer that costs pocket money.

> I still wouldn't put it in charge of the air lock, by the way.

I would with my big patio doors, tho sensing that it is me
and not someone else would be essential. Trouble is that
given I have 13 of them and no conventional doors at all
between the inside and outside, it is currently too expensive.
Not for the smart bit, just moving the massive great opening
part of the door and the electronic lock for it.

I already do that with the lights, they are all driven by movement
sensors so I never need to use light switches at all and can use
all of the google home minis and echo dots and siri to override
the system when a movement sensor isn't perfect.

Corse Timmy is such a luddite that he refuses to have a decent
modern smartphone and the turnip took quite literally years to
work out how to answer an incoming call on his.

[GB]

On 27/05/2022 18:30, Rod Speed wrote:

>> Why not just stick to Rod, then?
>
> Because some fools like that one and the turnip play juvenile
> silly buggers, put their fingers in their ears, close their eyes
> and chant "nyah nyah, can't hear ya" just like little kids do.

Some people choose not to see your posts, but you want to override their
wishes. Can I ask you why, please?

I'll say, right now, that it seems a bit childish to me, but I'd really
like to hear your POV.

[Rod Speed]

On Sat, 28 May 2022 03:53:38 +1000, GB <NOTso...@microsoft.invalid>
wrote:

> On 27/05/2022 18:30, Rod Speed wrote:
>
>>> Why not just stick to Rod, then?
>> Because some fools like that one and the turnip play juvenile
>> silly buggers, put their fingers in their ears, close their eyes
>> and chant "nyah nyah, can't hear ya" just like little kids do.

> Some people choose not to see your posts, but you want to override their
> wishes. Can I ask you why, please?

Because they only do that when they have had
their nose rubbed in a recent stupidity of theirs.

Most recently the turnip was doing yet another of his
endless raving on about how 'socialism' is entirely
bad for society. I rubbed his nose in the fact that he
himself has used it extensively, most recently with
the NHS and right the start when it paid for his
Oxbridge education and before that his school
education. So he plonked me again when he
eventually managed to work out that it was me again.

[williamwright]

On 27/05/2022 19:58, Rod Speed wrote:
> Most recently the turnip was doing yet another of his
> endless raving on about how 'socialism' is entirely
> bad for society. I rubbed his nose in the fact that he
> himself has used it extensively, most recently with
> the NHS and right the start when it paid for his
> Oxbridge education and before that his school
> education. So he plonked me again when he
> eventually managed to work out that it was me again.

That just doesn't make sense. By your logic the only way health care
could be delivered is via a socialised health system, ditto education.
Furthermore, just because someone uses, say, the NHS doesn't mean that
they approve of the socialist principles that underlie it. I use toll
roads but I don't approve of them. I have my bins collected by the
council but I regard them as a set of thieving bastards.

Bill

[williamwright]

On 27/05/2022 10:27, Tim Streater wrote:
> That's a good use case, trouble is with it and similar devices is they are

> marketed as being something essential to all our lives.

Most people aren't total sheep when it comes to spending money.

Bill

[williamwright]

On 27/05/2022 18:50, Rod Speed wrote:
> I would with my big patio doors, tho sensing that it is me
> and not someone else would be essential. Trouble is that
> given I have 13 of them

Thinly disguised boasting about the house. A real giveaway.

Bill

[Peeler]

On Sat, 28 May 2022 03:30:03 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

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[Peeler]

"Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."

https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

--
David Plowman about senile Rodent Speed's trolling:
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than usual for attention."
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[Peeler]

On Sat, 28 May 2022 03:50:15 +1000, Rcantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

[Rod Speed]

williamwright <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote

> Rod Speed wrote

>> Most recently the turnip was doing yet another of his
>> endless raving on about how 'socialism' is entirely
>> bad for society. I rubbed his nose in the fact that he
>> himself has used it extensively, most recently with
>> the NHS and right the start when it paid for his
>> Oxbridge education and before that his school
>> education. So he plonked me again when he
>> eventually managed to work out that it was me again.

> That just doesn't make sense.

We'll see...

> By your logic the only way health care couldbe delivered is via a
> socialised health system,

No, that that approach works a lot better than no socialised
health care system or even an entirely insurance based system.

> ditto education.

Nope, that a socialised education system with what you
lot call the public school system as well works a lot better
than no govt schools at all, just fee paying schools.

> Furthermore, just because someone uses, say, the NHS doesn'tmean that

> they approve of the socialist principles that underlie it.

But when he is free to not use the NHS and pay for
what medical services he needs, that clearly indicates
that he chooses to use the socialised system.

> I use toll roads but I don't approve of them.

That's different because it generally isn't
practical to never use any toll roads at all.

> I have my bins collected by the council butI regard them as a set of
> thieving bastards.

But you are free to never use them.

Bit more complicated with the roads
that the socialist system has provided.

[Rod Speed]

williamwright <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote

> Rod Speed wrote

>> I would with my big patio doors, tho sensing that it is me
>> and not someone else would be essential. Trouble is that
>> given I have 13 of them

> Thinly disguised boasting about the house.

Nope, it's done that way because it is passive solar.

> A real giveaway.

You're projecting, again.

[Peeler]

On Sat, 28 May 2022 06:15:36 +1000,cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

[Peeler]

On Sat, 28 May 2022 06:17:45 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Marland revealing the senile sociopath's pathology:
"You have mentioned Alexa in a couple of threads recently, it is not a real
woman you know even if it is the only thing with a female name that stays
around while you talk to it.
Poor sad git who has to resort to Usenet and electronic devices for any
interaction as all real people run a mile to get away from you boring them
to death."
MID: <gfkt3m...@mid.individual.net>

[Animal]

On Friday, 27 May 2022 at 09:16:33 UTC+1, Robin wrote:
> On 27/05/2022 08:27, John Walliker wrote:
> > When set to
> > low power, the pulses are still the same size, but they are less frequent.
> unless it is an inverter oven which just reduces the power

Non invertor ovens certainly don't do what he says. Is it Rodtard again?

[Animal]

On Friday, 27 May 2022 at 11:04:14 UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 27/05/2022 08:38, Tim Streater wrote:
> > Much simpler just to throw the Alexa in the bin. No one actually needs one of
> > these toys.
> +1

Had one for a while. I could sum up its usefulness in a single word: joke

[williamwright]

On 27/05/2022 21:15, Rod Speed wrote:
>> That just doesn't make sense.
>
> We'll see...
>
>> By your logic the only way health care  couldbe  delivered is via a
>> socialised health system,
>
> No, that that approach works a lot better than no socialised
> health care system or even an entirely insurance based system.

Matter of opinion, and in any case we aren't discussing which is the
best system.

>
>> ditto education.
>
> Nope, that a socialised education system with what you
> lot call the public school system as well works a lot better
> than no govt schools at all, just fee paying schools.

No the public schools are private. In any case we aren't discussing
which is the best system.

>

>> Furthermore, just because someone uses, say, the NHS doesn'tmean that
>> they approve of the socialist principles that underlie it.
>
> But when he is free to not use the NHS and pay for
> what medical services he needs, that clearly indicates
> that he chooses to use the socialised system.

Because otherwise he has to pay.

>
>> I use toll  roads but I don't approve of them.
>
> That's different because it generally isn't
> practical to never use any toll roads at all.

It's no problem at all to never use toll roads in the UK.

>
>> I have my bins collected by the  council butI regard them as a set of
>> thieving bastards.
>
> But you are free to never use them.

But since I'd have to pay whether or nor I use the services I might as
well use them. I'd rather the service and the charges didn't exist, but
they do, and I'm a pragmatist.

>
> Bit more complicated with the roads
> that the socialist system has provided.

Oh and by the way you're a fuckwit.

Bill

[williamwright]

On 27/05/2022 21:17, Rod Speed wrote:
> williamwright <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>
>>> I would with my big patio doors, tho sensing that it is me
>>> and not someone else would be essential. Trouble is that
>>> given I have 13 of them
>
>> Thinly disguised boasting about the house.
>
> Nope, it's done that way because it is passive solar.

Giving a reason doesn't mean you aren't boasting.

Bill

[williamwright]

No, it's right. The mark-space ratio alters.

Bill

[Rod Speed]

williamwright <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote

> Rod Speed wrote

>>> That just doesn't make sense.

>> We'll see...

>>> By your logic the only way health care couldbe delivered is via a
>>> socialised health system,

>> No, that that approach works a lot better than no socialised
>> health care system or even an entirely insurance based system.

> Matter of opinion,

Nope, matter of fact actually on the total cost of
the health care system and how well it delivers
adequate health care for the dregs of society.

> and in any case we aren't discussing which is the best system.

But we are discussing whether socialism delivers in some areas.

>>> ditto education.

>> Nope, that a socialised education system with what you
>> lot call the public school system as well works a lot better
>> than no govt schools at all, just fee paying schools.

> No the public schools are private.

I was talking about the term used, not reality.

> In any case we aren't discussing which is the best system.

But we are discussing whether socialism delivers in some areas.

>>> Furthermore, just because someone uses, say, the NHS doesn'tmean that
>>> they approve of the socialist principles that underlie it.

>> But when he is free to not use the NHS and pay for
>> what medical services he needs, that clearly indicates
>> that he chooses to use the socialised system.

> Because otherwise he has to pay.

Irrelevant to the fact that he chooses to use what socialism delivers.

>>> I use toll roads but I don't approve of them.

>> That's different because it generally isn't
>> practical to never use any toll roads at all.

> It's no problem at all to never use toll roads in the UK.

The problem is that it is hardly ever the most effective way to travel.

>>> I have my bins collected by the council but I regard them as a set of

>>> thieving bastards.

>> But you are free to never use them.

> But since I'd have to pay whether or nor I use the services I might as
> well use them. I'd rather the service and the charges didn't exist, but
> they do, and I'm a pragmatist.

But clearly that socialism does deliver a viable service for most.

>> Bit more complicated with the roads
>> that the socialist system has provided.

[Rod Speed]

williamwright <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> williamwright <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>> I would with my big patio doors, tho sensing that it is me
>>>> and not someone else would be essential. Trouble is that
>>>> given I have 13 of them

>>> Thinly disguised boasting about the house.

>> Nope, it's done that way because it is passive solar.

> Giving a reason doesn't mean you aren't boasting.

It isn't boasting when I list the reason why I haven't automated that.

[Animal]

The mark-space ratio of the power level timer is consistent, though different at different power settings.
The mark-space ratio of the pulses to the magnetron, which is what was being discussed, never changes from mains frequency with non-inverter ovens.

[Peeler]

On Sat, 28 May 2022 12:50:27 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rodent Speed:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID: <g4ihla...@mid.individual.net>

[Peeler]

On Sat, 28 May 2022 12:52:02 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

MrTu...@down.the.farm about senile Rodent Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID: <ps10v9$uo2$1...@gioia.aioe.org>

[tony sayer]

In article <5de7b1eb-12da-4e21...@googlegroups.com>,
Animal <tabb...@gmail.com> scribeth thus

>On Thursday, 26 May 2022 at 14:37:51 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 25 May 2022 at 21:01:57 UTC+1, GB wrote:
>> > On 25/05/2022 20:48, williamwright wrote:
>
>> > Thinking about it a bit more logically and less hysterically, though,
>> > 2.4GHz is not ionising radiation. So, it presumably just warms you up
>> > slightly?

>> Maybe the only heating some will be able to affort this coming winter ;-)
>
>It's extremely effective & efficient. Safety is less certain.
>
>PS some folks commenting on wifi might be unaware that nukes aren't 2.4GHz,
>they're around 2.4GHz (most anyway). The output frequency is unstable.

Nuke what are 2.4 Ghz?....

--
Tony Sayer


Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

[tony sayer]

In article <t6qulk$lok$1...@dont-email.me>, GB
<NOTso...@microsoft.invalid> scribeth thus
>On 26/05/2022 08:04, John Walliker wrote:
>
>> There are several reasons why microwave oven interference may affect
>> Alexa in one household but not others:
>> 1) Alexa is a dual-band WiFi device. If it connects to the WiFi base unit
>> at 5GHz then it is unlikely to be affected. Many older base units are 2.4GHz
>> only, in which case there is a much greater chance of interference.
>
>We have a dual band wifi router, but the direct route to Alexa is
>through the middle of my wife's metal filing drawers (WHICH CANNOT BE
>MOVED!). Hence the signal received is probably 2.4 Ghz, and somewhat
>attenuated. :)
>

Reflection at those frequencies is the way they get around;!...

[Brian Gaff]

Yes the early ones, I have 2 of them, the ones like the puck, are only 2.5
ghz, only version 3 onwards offers 5 gig.

I have one of the newer ones sitting on top of my microwave and it runs fine
when the microwave is on or off.
All you can do is experiment with different placements of it if you get
trouble Move the router or the lady A.
Brian

--

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bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1RquqdMN...@bancom.co.uk...

[Brian Gaff]

No I think its more likely to be the metal box, not the output. As I say, I
have one on top of mine with no issues.

Brian

--

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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
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"tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message

news:4h2tmqM+...@bancom.co.uk...

[Andy Burns]

tony sayer wrote:

> Nuke what are 2.4 Ghz?....

microwave oven, as in "I'll just nuke that to warm it up again"

[Scott]

On Wed, 25 May 2022 12:53:20 +0100, GB <NOTso...@microsoft.invalid>
wrote:

>We have our Amazon Echo Dot next to our built in microwave oven.
>Starting the oven stops the Echo picking up a wifi signal. Is this a
>sign of excessive leakage, or is it simply par for the course?

Phone the police immediately:-)

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 07/06/2022 22:30, tony sayer wrote:
> In article <5de7b1eb-12da-4e21...@googlegroups.com>,
> Animal <tabb...@gmail.com> scribeth thus
>> On Thursday, 26 May 2022 at 14:37:51 UTC+1, whisky-dave wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, 25 May 2022 at 21:01:57 UTC+1, GB wrote:
>>>> On 25/05/2022 20:48, williamwright wrote:
>>
>>>> Thinking about it a bit more logically and less hysterically, though,
>>>> 2.4GHz is not ionising radiation. So, it presumably just warms you up
>>>> slightly?
>>> Maybe the only heating some will be able to affort this coming winter ;-)
>>
>> It's extremely effective & efficient. Safety is less certain.
>>
>> PS some folks commenting on wifi might be unaware that nukes aren't 2.4GHz,
>> they're around 2.4GHz (most anyway). The output frequency is unstable.
>
> Nuke what are 2.4 Ghz?....
>

Microwave ovens = nukes

--
“I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the
greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most
obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of
conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which
they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by
thread, into the fabric of their lives.”

― Leo Tolstoy

[Brian Gaff]

Why?

I'm assuming you are being flippant.

Its normally the metal inner case that stops them, not the actual
microwaves. It could be that in this Microwaves case its lo voltage
circuits, like any display it has are powered by a switch mode psu, one of
the el cheapo Chins ones, and it is that which is radiating. There are some
pretty dire examples of this around. Ether way, your only real recourse is
to move the dot to a better signal area, or you could try, if the router
supports it changing the channel its using and let the devices it again. I'd
not bet any money on it especially if its one of the older versions of the
dot.

Brian

--

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Blind user, so no pictures please
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"Scott" <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:spk0ahlp3rp1mehk3...@4ax.com...

[Animal]

On Friday, 10 June 2022 at 09:40:26 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Why?
>
> I'm assuming you are being flippant.
>
> Its normally the metal inner case that stops them, not the actual
> microwaves. It could be that in this Microwaves case its lo voltage
> circuits, like any display it has are powered by a switch mode psu, one of
> the el cheapo Chins ones, and it is that which is radiating.

At 2.4GHz? Hardly.

[Scott]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 09:40:16 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
<brian...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Why?
>
>I'm assuming you are being flippant.
>
>Its normally the metal inner case that stops them, not the actual
>microwaves. It could be that in this Microwaves case its lo voltage
>circuits, like any display it has are powered by a switch mode psu, one of
>the el cheapo Chins ones, and it is that which is radiating. There are some
>pretty dire examples of this around. Ether way, your only real recourse is
>to move the dot to a better signal area, or you could try, if the router
>supports it changing the channel its using and let the devices it again. I'd
>not bet any money on it especially if its one of the older versions of the
>dot.

I was adopting a zero tolerance approach to any interfering with Alexa
in the me too era :-)