is Creosote banned?

[Thumper]

Is Creosote actually banned, or has it just gone out of fashion because of
all the various other woodstains and preservers now on the market?

Ian

[dennis@home]

"Thumper" <thum...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:1ipop.50946$7u3....@newsfe04.ams2...

> Is Creosote actually banned, or has it just gone out of fashion because of
> all the various other woodstains and preservers now on the market?

Its "banned"(1) as a DIY preservative due to its health problems if not
used properly.
Add the fact that brushing creosote onto wood doesn't work as a preservative
and you get the idea why its "banned".

(1) You can still buy it for commercial use but its a waste of time for most
things.

[Andy Dingley]

On Apr 10, 10:40 pm, "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kickass.net>
wrote:

> Add the fact that brushing creosote onto wood doesn't work as a preservative
> and you get the idea why its "banned".

Brushed creosote is a perfectly good way to re-treat wood that was
creosoted thoroughly (immersion, vacuum or pressure) originally.

[dennis@home]

"Andy Dingley" <din...@codesmiths.com> wrote in message
news:56a5676e-8a41-4872...@z31g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...

But for what purpose?
Its not going to affect its life, just its colour.

[Dave]

As a telephone engineer who puts life and limb at risk every time I climb a
telegraph pole, I can say that our pole testers regularly have to dig down
around the base of the pole to test the integrity of the wood, and they
always pour or brush fresh creosote into the test areas when they've
finished. They also recreosote the tops of the poles as well and it must
work because some of the poles I've climbed are older than me - and I'm 53.

[dennis@home]

"Dave" <no...@valid.com> wrote in message
news:GOSdncJztfl3fD_Q...@bt.com...

But its not brushed on, its vacuum and pressured into the pole.
From what i have seen they get a very deep penetration on those poles which
you just don't get with brushed on stuff.

There have been loads of trials of fencing with various treatments and
creosoted stuff lasts no longer than untreated stuff.
My fencing is now 30 years old and has never been creosoted by me and has
only been treated with some stuff to colour it about 25 years ago.
Painting it with creosote is a waste of time, just dye it once and forget
it.

[fred]

On 11 Apr, 12:18, "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kickass.net> wrote:
> "Dave" <n...@valid.com> wrote in message
>
> news:GOSdncJztfl3fD_Q...@bt.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > dennis@home wrote:
> >> "Andy Dingley" <ding...@codesmiths.com> wrote in message

Nonsense. Of course it helps preserve the timber. Stand a cut end of
timber into a bucket of creosote for a short while and you will see
how the timber soaks it up.

People have been using creosote for years as a wood preservative. What
makes you think that you, on the basis of one example, know better.

Paul Mc Cann

[ARWadsworth]

Dennis does not think. It's a well known fact.

--
Adam

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember fred <tpmc...@gmail.com> saying
something like:

>People have been using creosote for years as a wood preservative. What
>makes you think that you, on the basis of one example, know better.

It's Dennis, what do you expect?

[chris]

On 11 Apr, 08:09, Huge <H...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2011-04-10, dennis@home <den...@killspam.kickass.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Thumper" <thumpe...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

> >news:1ipop.50946$7u3....@newsfe04.ams2...
> >> Is Creosote actually banned, or has it just gone out of fashion because of
> >> all the various other woodstains and preservers now on the market?
>
> > Its "banned"(1)  as a DIY preservative due to its health problems if not
> > used properly.
> > Add the fact that brushing creosote onto wood doesn't work as a preservative
> > and you get the idea why its "banned".
>

> Ah, it's dennis. That'll mean it's a very effective preservative.
>
> --
> Today is Sweetmorn, the 28th day of Discord in the YOLD 3177
>   Science flies people to the moon; Religion flies people into skyscrapers.

Not sure about the logic and reasoning but you are absolutely correct
in the conclusion. True creosote had some 200 odd active and rather
nasty ingredients and has been used for donkeys years in the
preservation of telegraph poles and railway sleepers until the
wretched EC got its ugly grip on our poor country
There were no scientific insights as to the precise mechanism of its
fungicidal action as for example with CCA but work it did and the
proof of that was empircal
Treated poles lasted longer than untreated ones by a considerable
margin.
To be effective it had to be put in under pressure
or
used with an effective hot/cold immersion system of application

Chris

[chris]

On 11 Apr, 12:18, "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kickass.net> wrote:

> "Dave" <n...@valid.com> wrote in message
>
> news:GOSdncJztfl3fD_Q...@bt.com...
>
>
>
> > dennis@home wrote:
> >> "Andy Dingley" <ding...@codesmiths.com> wrote in message

I have worked in the preservation industry for over 35 years, have my
PhD in fungal enzymic degradation of timber working on
hemicelluloses,have worked in houses for since 1975 on dry rot etc and
I have not heard of any such papers. BRE did quite a lot of work in
the 60s and 70s on preservatives on panels angled to the sun as well
as paints and I do not recall creoste being tested. Lots of work done
on posts and sleepers of varying sorts and indeed there was a creosote
section of the BWPA before it became the BWPDA and then the PCA. It
is now non-existent naturally. I shall be appreciative of the title
of such papers and where they were published as it is good to fill any
lacunae in one's knowledge and since I do this professionally your
input would be most useful
Cheers

Chris

[dennis@home]

"fred" <tpmc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d2db2666-b1ad-42b9...@a12g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

>
> Nonsense. Of course it helps preserve the timber. Stand a cut end of
> timber into a bucket of creosote for a short while and you will see
> how the timber soaks it up.

So what, bury the end in the ground and it will rot despite the bit of
creosote it has soaked up.
Next you will be saying its a diy job to pressure treat the timber to
actually get the creosote into the wood.
BTW if you have such kit you wouldn't waste your time putting creosote on
using it when there are so many better products.

>
> People have been using creosote for years as a wood preservative. What
> makes you think that you, on the basis of one example, know better.

Because I haven't been using it for years and the ones that have have had to
replace their fences.
And the independent tests that are around if you want to look.

[dennis@home]

"chris" <cjdg...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:2e62e991-0a18-4969...@24g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

Not much chance.. it was about 30 years ago when I read about the stuff and
decided creosote was cr@p.
I wouldn't know where to look on the internet for them and I didn't keep
anything.

I do remember there being a which report that compared creosoted fence with
others and it came to the conclusion it did nothing useful when applied by
brush ie. useless to diy users.
> Cheers
>
> Chris

[Vortex10]

http://www.birdbrand.co.uk/acatalog/Traditional_Creosote.html

Pretty easy to obtain. My local builders merchant stocks it.

[Thumper]

"Vortex10" <ne...@NOSPAM.hernibles.com> wrote in message
news:90h35b...@mid.individual.net...

Looking at that webpage, it's not banned, just priced itself out of the
market.

[The Other Mike]

On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 19:23:31 +0100, "dennis@home"
<den...@killspam.kickass.net> wrote:

>I do remember there being a which report that compared creosoted fence with
>others and it came to the conclusion it did nothing useful when applied by
>brush ie. useless to diy users.

"Which report"

I now need a new keyboard you selfish inconsiderate bastard

I'll have a close look tomorrow at my fence that was erected in the
spring of 1973, made of 'untreated' off the shelf wood, the ends of
the rails and verticals were dipped for a couple of days in a bucket
of creosote and the rest just painted with creosote on installation,
the whole gets painted with creosote every 5 - 10 years or so and it's
still essentially rot free. The only failures in the past THIRTY
EIGHT YEARS have been a few dozen nails and the coachbolts holding the
rails to the concrete posts were rotting through so they were replaced
about five years ago with the light green plated ones that Wickes and
Screwfix sell.

I cut a gate opening in it last year and as a consequence shortened
some of the rails. I also cut some verticals to see the state of the
core. They were near perfect and are currently dumped at the side of
the garage awaiting a bonfire. If I could be arsed I'd photograph
them and demonstrate how effective creosote is (was)

--

[ARWadsworth]

So you admit that you are talking bollocks then.

--
Adam

[The Medway Handyman]

You are Count Arthur Strong AICMFP.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Count, now in his old age, has delusions of grandeur. He has
selective memory loss, never hearing what he doesn't want to and
malapropism-itis, which result in him confusing anyone he happens to be
talking to and even confusing himself.

However, he more often than not blames the people he is talking to for
causing the confusion in the first place. On the few occasions Count
Arthur does realise that it he who is in the wrong, he tries to lie out
of his predicament, often unsuccessfully.

A typical conversation for the Count will involve him confusing both
himself and others, while becoming drastically sidetracked from the
matter in hand. He is usually oblivious to the chaos he causes, often
blaming his interlocutors for any confusion.

On the rare occasions he realises he is at fault, he often attempts to
divert the blame by lying. Inevitably becoming confused by his own lies,
his last resort is usually to claim he was recording a stunt for a
hidden camera show."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has anyone ever seen Dennis & Count Arthur Strong in the same room?

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

[dennis@home]

"The Other Mike" <rootpa...@somewhereorother.com> wrote in message
news:a927q6dparkh5pbno...@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 19:23:31 +0100, "dennis@home"
> <den...@killspam.kickass.net> wrote:
>
>>I do remember there being a which report that compared creosoted fence
>>with
>>others and it came to the conclusion it did nothing useful when applied by
>>brush ie. useless to diy users.
>
> "Which report"
>
> I now need a new keyboard you selfish inconsiderate bastard
>
> I'll have a close look tomorrow at my fence that was erected in the
> spring of 1973, made of 'untreated' off the shelf wood, the ends of
> the rails and verticals were dipped for a couple of days in a bucket
> of creosote and the rest just painted with creosote on installation,
> the whole gets painted with creosote every 5 - 10 years or so and it's
> still essentially rot free. The only failures in the past THIRTY
> EIGHT YEARS have been a few dozen nails and the coachbolts holding the
> rails to the concrete posts were rotting through so they were replaced
> about five years ago with the light green plated ones that Wickes and
> Screwfix sell.

That agrees with what I said BTW.
Mine is OK without any treatments for the last 25 years.
As I said creosote does nothing and your evidence says the same.

[Skipweasel]

In article <FOSop.17263$2W5....@newsfe16.ams2>,
davi...@blueyonder.co.uk says...

> Has anyone ever seen Dennis & Count Arthur Strong in the same room?

I'd cheerfully throttle CAS given half a chance. The second most
infuriating thing on Radio 4, just behind Shela Dillon's Unbearably Smug
Food programme.
Melanie Philips doesn't count 'cos I run towards the radio so fast to
turn it off that all I can hear is a high whistle.

--
Skipweasel - never knowingly understood.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Huge wrote:

> Excellent!
>
> (And exactly how I feel about The Archers.)
>
>
From listening to all Radio 4 except the archers, these days I never
even put it on at all.

Occasionally I find I have missed something rather good, - material
world occasionally has a snippet, but I player sorts that.

[dennis@home]

"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:io01sk$sn1$1...@dont-email.me...

> So you admit that you are talking bollocks then.

That is your monopoly, although there are others trying for that job.

[Thumper]

"Skipweasel" <skipweas...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.280e2203b...@85.214.73.210...

Is that the same Melanie Philips who is a columnist for the Daily Mail? Seen
her a few times on Question Time and she spoke utter drivel about whatever
was the subject.

[Jules Richardson]

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:03:59 +0000, Huge wrote:
> Anything dennis posts can be reliably thought to be completely wrong,
> ergo creosote is an effective preservative.

Yes, it seems that generally speaking it's most helpful to take anything
he says with a very large pinch of STFU.

[Jules Richardson]

[Jules Richardson]

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 00:12:19 +0100, ARWadsworth wrote:
> So you admit that you are talking bollocks then.

Dennis, the pair of highly-vocal 'nads?

[dennis@home]

"Jules Richardson" <jules.richa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:io1gv3$fi2$3...@dont-email.me...

Well being as none of the people that have replied have even bothered to
read my posts I don't think I will worry about them.
All have said how effective creosote is when applied by pressure treatment
when I specifically said applied by DIY, i.e. brushing or soaking.
The one poster that actually said he had soaked the stuff missed the point
anyway.. saying a fence has lasted 38 years while only being painted with
creosote does mean it has lasted any longer than if he hadn't painted it
with creosote.
Mine, however, has been up for 30 years and has not been painted with
anything in the last 25 years.
I still say that creosote does nothing useful for any diy user and citing
telephone poles and sleepers as examples of where it has worked is
irrelevant.

The way to stop fences rotting is to make sure they can dry out, this kills
the rot.
No amount of soaking a fence post in creosote will stop it rotting in the
ground as it leaches out quickly.
If it worked why are concrete posts so popular?
Even proper pressure treated posts will rot in the ground after a decade or
two.

Add to the ineffectiveness of creosote the dangers, the horrid colour, the
smell, the fact it kills plants, doesn't dry for weeks, have to keep kids
and pets away from it for weeks and you have to ask why anyone would want
the stuff.

[The Other Mike]

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:55:57 +0100, "dennis@home"
<den...@killspam.kickass.net> wrote:
>
>"Jules Richardson" <jules.richa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:io1gv3$fi2$3...@dont-email.me...
>> On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:03:59 +0000, Huge wrote:
>>> Anything dennis posts can be reliably thought to be completely wrong,
>>> ergo creosote is an effective preservative.
>>
>> Yes, it seems that generally speaking it's most helpful to take anything
>> he says with a very large pinch of STFU.
>>
>
>Well being as none of the people that have replied have even bothered to
>read my posts I don't think I will worry about them.
>All have said how effective creosote is when applied by pressure treatment
>when I specifically said applied by DIY, i.e. brushing or soaking.
>The one poster that actually said he had soaked the stuff missed the point
>anyway.. saying a fence has lasted 38 years while only being painted with
>creosote does mean it has lasted any longer than if he hadn't painted it
>with creosote.

I soaked the end grain, nothing more. It amounted to about 6 inches
of the 8 - 10ft rails and the last couple of inches of the verticals.
All the rest was painted with a brush. This was bog standard
softwood, never, ever intended for outdoor use but was otherwise going
to waste.

If you really expect a softwood to last 38 years without any treatment
then you must be living in a secure indoor facility that doesn't
permit pissing on the woodwork

--

[The Other Mike]

If you talked any more sense you'd still be talking complete bollocks

--

[Skipweasel]

In article <YCXop.3824$9h6....@newsfe02.ams2>, thum...@ntlworld.com
says...

> > I'd cheerfully throttle CAS given half a chance. The second most
> > infuriating thing on Radio 4, just behind Shela Dillon's Unbearably Smug
> > Food programme.
> > Melanie Philips doesn't count 'cos I run towards the radio so fast to
> > turn it off that all I can hear is a high whistle.
> >
> Is that the same Melanie Philips who is a columnist for the Daily Mail? Seen
> her a few times on Question Time and she spoke utter drivel about whatever
> was the subject.
>

Yup, the Bile Duct gives her page-space, too. I occasionally pick the
filthy rag up at the FiL's house when there's nothing else to read.

[Skipweasel]

In article <io1gv3$fi2$3...@dont-email.me>,
jules.richa...@gmail.com says...

> > Anything dennis posts can be reliably thought to be completely wrong,
> > ergo creosote is an effective preservative.
>
> Yes, it seems that generally speaking it's most helpful to take anything
> he says with a very large pinch of STFU.

Just for a moment I thought you were talking about Melanie Philips.

[ARWadsworth]

It's not me that is suggesting that putting creosote on fences causes them
to have a shorter lifespan than untreated fences.

--
Adam

[ARWadsworth]

Probably best to do a wiki article on how creosote reduces the lifespan of a
fence:-)

--
Adam

[The Medway Handyman]

That might be because untreated fences are liable for VAT.... or sumfink

[dennis@home]

"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message

news:io1vch$74q$1...@dont-email.me...

You are the only one to suggest it does!

[ARWadsworth]

dennis@home <den...@killspam.kickass.net> wrote:
> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:io1vch$74q$1...@dont-email.me...
>> dennis@home <den...@killspam.kickass.net> wrote:
>>> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:io01sk$sn1$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>>> So you admit that you are talking bollocks then.
>>>
>>> That is your monopoly, although there are others trying for that
>>> job.
>>
>> It's not me that is suggesting that putting creosote on fences
>> causes them to have a shorter lifespan than untreated fences.
>
> You are the only one to suggest it does!

It was you that said yesterday at 19:03
"Because I haven't been using it for years and the ones that have have had
to
replace their fences."

You really are a first class tool.

--
Adam

[dennis@home]

"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message

news:io2al7$ak1$1...@dont-email.me...

So what, that does not say that I claimed the stuff with creosote last less.
The local conditions could easily account for one fence rotting a few years
earlier, it may even mean that some creosoted fences will last longer than
mine. If creosote actually made much difference the majority of treated
fences would last longer.

>
> You really are a first class tool.
>

You are just thick.

[ARWadsworth]

dennis@home <den...@killspam.kickass.net> wrote:
> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:io2al7$ak1$1...@dont-email.me...
>> dennis@home <den...@killspam.kickass.net> wrote:
>>> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:io1vch$74q$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>> dennis@home <den...@killspam.kickass.net> wrote:
>>>>> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:io01sk$sn1$1...@dont-email.me...
>>>>>
>>>>>> So you admit that you are talking bollocks then.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is your monopoly, although there are others trying for that
>>>>> job.
>>>>
>>>> It's not me that is suggesting that putting creosote on fences
>>>> causes them to have a shorter lifespan than untreated fences.
>>>
>>> You are the only one to suggest it does!
>>
>>
>> It was you that said yesterday at 19:03
>> "Because I haven't been using it for years and the ones that have
>> have had to
>> replace their fences."
>
> So what, that does not say that I claimed the stuff with creosote
> last less.

That is exactly what you claimed. The words were "Because I haven't been

using it for years and the ones that have have had to replace their fences"

>The local conditions could easily account for one fence

> rotting a few years earlier, it may even mean that some creosoted
> fences will last longer than mine. If creosote actually made much
> difference the majority of treated fences would last longer.

I wondered how long it would take you to start bending the facts to fit your
fiction.

>> You really are a first class tool.
>>
> You are just thick.

You aspire to reach the rank of thick.

--
Adam

[geoff]

In message <90fnpc...@mid.individual.net>, Huge
<Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> writes
>On 2011-04-10, dennis@home <den...@killspam.kickass.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Thumper" <thum...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>> news:1ipop.50946$7u3....@newsfe04.ams2...
>>> Is Creosote actually banned, or has it just gone out of fashion because of
>>> all the various other woodstains and preservers now on the market?
>>
>> Its "banned"(1) as a DIY preservative due to its health problems if not
>> used properly.

>> Add the fact that brushing creosote onto wood doesn't work as a preservative
>> and you get the idea why its "banned".
>

>Ah, it's dennis. That'll mean it's a very effective preservative.
>
Which is more than his dad had

--
geoff

[Dave Liquorice]

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:55:57 +0100, dennis@home wrote:

> Even proper pressure treated posts will rot in the ground after a decade
> or two.

Very rarely in the ground. At and just above ground level is where
wooden posts rot.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[The Medway Handyman]

You wriggling little fucking worm.

[dennis@home]

"geof the moron." <tr...@uk-diy.org> wrote in message
news:69HW3$He0Mp...@virginmedia.com...

> In message <90fnpc...@mid.individual.net>, Huge

>>Ah, it's dennis. That'll mean it's a very effective preservative.

>>
> Which is more than his dad had

Why do you need to bring the dead into your petty thoughts?

Why don't you got and fan(ny) about like your other followers suggest.

[The Medway Handyman]

Could someone translate that into English please?

[Tim Lamb]

In message <nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@srv1.howhill.co.uk>, Dave
Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> writes

Umm... close to the surface and in the wet zone in my experience.
Treated posts in free draining soils last longer than those in *black*
soils found on river flood plains.

Stored treated posts will crack as they dry further. My technique is to
dip the post in whatever preservative comes to hand so that the point
and at least 6" above finished soil level are immersed. Hopefully
protecting the exposed interior.

Creosote is an effective preservative as there are stretches of treated
Cedar post and rail fencing in favoured locations here which must have
been installed prior to 1938.

regards
>

--
Tim Lamb

[Andy Dingley]

On Apr 11, 12:00 pm, "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kickass.net>
wrote:

> > Brushed creosote is a perfectly good way to re-treat wood that was
> > creosoted thoroughly (immersion, vacuum or pressure) originally.
>
> But for what purpose?
> Its not going to affect its life, just its colour.

Two reasons. Firstly colour - because we do often repaint timber just
for the looks. Secondly it's a way to patch up over surface damage.

[Andy Dingley]

On Apr 12, 8:03 am, Huge <H...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

> Anything dennis posts can be reliably thought to be completely wrong, ergo
> creosote is an effective preservative.

I worked for a guy (sofftware architect) like that once. He was not
only wrong, or even usually wrong (these are common in the trade), he
was _always_ _utterly_ completely out of phase with the right answer.

Once you realised this, and once you became good enough at hiding what
you were actualy doing, it all worked out surprisingly well.

[Andy Dingley]

On Apr 11, 12:43 pm, fred <tpmcc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Nonsense. Of course it helps preserve the timber. Stand a cut end of
> timber into a bucket of creosote for a short while and you will see
> how the timber soaks it up.

Telegraph poles don't fail by rotting alone, they fail by breaking.
Because they're so big and wind-loaded quite heavily, a "rotten" pole
will snap long before it becomes "as rotten as a fencepost". Nor is
this failure likely to happen just at ground level. So regular
inspection is needed to ensure this is detected before it's a problem,
and poles are (or ought to be) removed and destroyed before they're a
hazard.

This ability to fail anywhere up the pole also means that soaking in
along the end grain just isn't enough for them. They're too long for
it to be effective, the risk is too great of rot around damage or
attachment part way up for us just to rely on protecting their bases.
So telegraph poles (even longer than railway sleepers) have long been
subject to research and complicted treatments involving vacuum or
pressure impregnation.

Soaking the bottom ends of vertical shed boards in creosote before
assembly is a great way to protect them against rot at their likely
rotting point. However it doesn't have much effect along the length of
the board, nor is it effective as a treatment for big fenceposts (they
rot at ground level, a big post's end is buried deeper than this).

[Derek G.]

On 12 Apr 2011 09:43:01 GMT, Huge <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:

>On 2011-04-12, Skipweasel <skipweas...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> In article <FOSop.17263$2W5....@newsfe16.ams2>,
>> davi...@blueyonder.co.uk says...
>>> Has anyone ever seen Dennis & Count Arthur Strong in the same room?
>>

>> I'd cheerfully throttle CAS given half a chance. The second most
>> infuriating thing on Radio 4, just behind Shela Dillon's Unbearably Smug
>> Food programme.
>> Melanie Philips doesn't count 'cos I run towards the radio so fast to
>> turn it off that all I can hear is a high whistle.
>

>Excellent!
>
>(And exactly how I feel about The Archers.)

Would that by any chance be "The Starchers" (an everyday story of
laundry folk)?

Derek G

[damdu...@yahoo.co.uk]

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:55:57 +0100, "dennis@home"

<den...@killspam.kickass.net> wrote:

>
>
>"Jules Richardson" <jules.richa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:io1gv3$fi2$3...@dont-email.me...
>> On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 07:03:59 +0000, Huge wrote:
>>> Anything dennis posts can be reliably thought to be completely wrong,
>>> ergo creosote is an effective preservative.
>>
>> Yes, it seems that generally speaking it's most helpful to take anything
>> he says with a very large pinch of STFU.
>>

>I still say that creosote does nothing useful for any diy user and citing

>telephone poles and sleepers as examples of where it has worked is
>irrelevant.

>, the horrid colour, the

>smell, the fact it kills plants, doesn't dry for weeks, have to keep kids
>and pets away from it for weeks and you have to ask why anyone would want
>the stuff.

A good advertising agency could have a very successful promotion by
extolling those points as virtues.
I'd buy the product .

G.Harman

[ARWadsworth]

Back in the 1980's Screaming Lord Sutch when asked on his position on
defence replied "I'm going to creosote it".

--
Adam

[geoff]

In message <io3hl8$3pd$1...@news.datemas.de>, "dennis@home"
<den...@killspam.kickass.net> writes

You could always not post crap, then I wouldn't reply

--
geoff

[ARWadsworth]

The Medway Handyman <davi...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> On 13/04/2011 07:59, dennis@home wrote:
>>
>>
>> "geof the moron." <tr...@uk-diy.org> wrote in message
>> news:69HW3$He0Mp...@virginmedia.com...
>>> In message <90fnpc...@mid.individual.net>, Huge
>>
>>>> Ah, it's dennis. That'll mean it's a very effective preservative.
>>>>
>>> Which is more than his dad had
>>
>> Why do you need to bring the dead into your petty thoughts?
>>
>> Why don't you got and fan(ny) about like your other followers
>> suggest.
>
> Could someone translate that into English please?

Nursey was not around to help him with the spelling.

--
Adam

[karen...@yahoo.co.uk]

On Sunday, April 10, 2011 at 10:28:23 PM UTC+1, Thumper wrote:
> Is Creosote actually banned, or has it just gone out of fashion because of
> all the various other woodstains and preservers now on the market?
>

> Ian

mix jays with creasote

[Fredxxx]

??

[The Natural Philosopher]

Personally I prefer pigeons


--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Seems cruel, but it might just work ...

[Brian Gaff]

Back it time to 2011, well its bloody hard to get nowadays and it used to
smell wonderful in the sun. The new so called replacements are puny and seem
to be of little use at all.
Some people seem to make up concoctions using old engine oil and all sorts
of stuff.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please!
<karen...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9f0ac673-9802-43f5...@googlegroups.com...

[Andy Burns]

karen.rodic wrote:

> Thumper wrote:
>
>> Is Creosote actually banned

Allowed for professionals, not for DIY

> mix jays with creasote

If you can't get jays, use magpies.

[harry]

You can buy stuff called "Creocote"
Smells and looks like Creosote.
Dunno if it's any good.

More expensive.
I think it's hard to get because it was a coal derived product.
We used to get it from the local gasworks yeas ago.

I think creosote is good so long as the wood is dry when applied.

[Steve Walker]

Good old creosote was applied to my parents' neighbours' shed. When they
no longer wanted the shed, we took it to my parents' house in France and
re-creosoted it. That shed is older than me and I'm hitting the
half-century this year!

[Johnny B Good]

Or any other readily available corvid.

--
Johnny B Good

[rick]

if you use a drill powered mixer - maybe

[rick]

On 7/30/2016 11:33 PM, karen...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On Sunday, April 10, 2011 at 10:28:23 PM UTC+1, Thumper wrote:
>> Is Creosote actually banned, or has it just gone out of fashion because of
>> all the various other woodstains and preservers now on the market?
>>

If I have facts right Creosote is not banned .... but it is no longer
licensed for public sale.
You can buy it as a licensed contractor.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I think you merely have to say you are.


--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

[damdu...@yahoo.co.uk]

On Mon, 1 Aug 2016 18:13:48 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 01/08/16 18:08, rick wrote:
>> On 7/30/2016 11:33 PM, karen...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>> On Sunday, April 10, 2011 at 10:28:23 PM UTC+1, Thumper wrote:
>>>> Is Creosote actually banned, or has it just gone out of fashion

>> If I have facts right Creosote is not banned .... but it is no longer
>> licensed for public sale.
>> You can buy it as a licensed contractor.
>>
>I think you merely have to say you are.

Last 20l drum I bought was for Mother about 5 years ago when she still
had the farm and wanted some gates retreated,the supplier a local
agricultural merchants asked for something just to indicate she
actually had a farm ,some form from Defra was accepted. other
merchants may just accept somebody's word.

If I actually needed some I could be tempted to complete an order on
this site and see at what stage they ask for any confirmation that I
am in an approved category to use it.
http://www.creosotesales.co.uk/

G.Harman

[Phil L]

...
Back into the chamber turning, all my soul within me burning,

Soon again I heard a tapping somewhat louder than before.

"Surely," said I, "surely that is something at my window lattice;

Let me see, then, what thereat is, and this mystery explore-

Let my heart be still a moment and this mystery explore;-

'Tis the wind and nothing more!"



Open here I flung the shutter, when, with many a flirt and flutter,

In there stepped a stately Raven of the saintly days of yore;

Not the least obeisance made he; not a minute stopped or stayed he;

But, with mien of lord or lady, perched above my chamber door-

Perched upon a bust of Pallas just above my chamber door-

Perched, and sat, and nothing more.



Then this ebony bird beguiling my sad fancy into smiling,

By the grave and stern decorum of the countenance it wore,

"Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou," I said, "art sure no craven,

Ghastly grim and ancient Raven wandering from the Nightly shore-

Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!"

Quoth the Raven "Nevermore."

[timw...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, April 10, 2011 at 5:28:23 PM UTC-4, Thumper wrote:
> Is Creosote actually banned, or has it just gone out of fashion because of
> all the various other woodstains and preservers now on the market?
>

> Ian

Interesting Canadian study on the (non-) deleterious effects of creosote:
http://wwpinstitute.org/documents/PugetSoundCreosoteReport.pdf

[The Natural Philosopher]

That was a good read.

--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

[Weatherlawyer]

On Monday, April 11, 2011 at 12:18:24 PM UTC+1, dennis@home wrote:
> "Dave" <no...@valid.com> wrote in message
> news:GOSdncJztfl3fD_Q...@bt.com...
> > dennis@home wrote:
> >> "Andy Dingley" <din...@codesmiths.com> wrote in message
> >> news:56a5676e-8a41-4872...@z31g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...
> >>> On Apr 10, 10:40 pm, "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kickass.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Add the fact that brushing creosote onto wood doesn't work as a
> >>>> preservative
> >>>> and you get the idea why its "banned".

> >>>
> >>> Brushed creosote is a perfectly good way to re-treat wood that was
> >>> creosoted thoroughly (immersion, vacuum or pressure) originally.
> >>
> >> But for what purpose?
> >> Its not going to affect its life, just its colour.
> >

> > As a telephone engineer who puts life and limb at risk every time I climb
> > a telegraph pole, I can say that our pole testers regularly have to dig
> > down around the base of the pole to test the integrity of the wood, and
> > they always pour or brush fresh creosote into the test areas when they've
> > finished. They also recreosote the tops of the poles as well and it must
> > work because some of the poles I've climbed are older than me - and I'm
> > 53.
> >
>
> But its not brushed on, its vacuum and pressured into the pole.
> From what i have seen they get a very deep penetration on those poles which
> you just don't get with brushed on stuff.
>
> There have been loads of trials of fencing with various treatments and
> creosoted stuff lasts no longer than untreated stuff.
> My fencing is now 30 years old and has never been creosoted by me and has
> only been treated with some stuff to colour it about 25 years ago.
> Painting it with creosote is a waste of time, just dye it once and forget
> it.

No it was originally applied in an hot bath, the type of timber for poles absorbed heated oils readily. Also the quality control was superb.

[Pete Thompson]

replying to dennis, Pete Thompson wrote:
Sorry to blunt, but the concept.of pressure being necessary is bunk. My Dad
and I built a bridge out of 2x dimensional lumber and 3/4 plywood, double
brush coating all surfaces with creosote before and after construction. Mind
you this bridge is over a river that's in a wooded Michigan flood plain that
floods deep.enough to submerge the.bridge four times.a year on average. We
built that bridge close to 50 years ago. It is still structurally sound. Even
the 3/4 plywood panels that are laid flat to create the walking top surface
are in great shape all the way to the edges. It's pretty incredible. In fact
it was sitting here looking at that bridge that prompted me to.Google
creosote, which led me to this thread lol. I'm still not sure if the "real"
creosote is available or not, I'm concerned it's been banned and if I ever
have to replace that bridge I'll be forced to use an inferior product.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/is-creosote-banned-699640-.htm

[Brian Gaff]

Has this thread really been going on and off since 2011?
Anyway, I think the recipe for it varies in different parts of the world,
but i do believe in Europe its status is that its no longer made, and other
substances are used instead. To my mind so called treated timber, Lumber
for our Americans, is also inferior to what it used to be. I understand its
not actually weathered first and only dipped in some kind of preservative,
but I've recently had fence posts twist and warp shortly after being put in,
resulting in gates with twisted locks or hinges.
So I am not sure if its actually inferior, or whether its just not applied
very well.

From this post, it sounds like you may need to make a somewhat taller
bridge!

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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Blind user, so no pictures please!

"Pete Thompson" <caedfaa9ed1216d60ef...@example.com> wrote
in message news:g9MIC.59074$ga6....@fx24.am4...

[Andrew Mawson]

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message news:pd0pe8$3df$1...@news.albasani.net...

>
>Has this thread really been going on and off since 2011?
> Anyway, I think the recipe for it varies in different parts of the world,
> but i do believe in Europe its status is that its no longer made, and
> other substances are used instead. To my mind so called treated timber,
> Lumber for our Americans, is also inferior to what it used to be. I
> understand its not actually weathered first and only dipped in some kind
> of preservative, but I've recently had fence posts twist and warp shortly
> after being put in, resulting in gates with twisted locks or hinges.
> So I am not sure if its actually inferior, or whether its just not applied
> very well.
>
>From this post, it sounds like you may need to make a somewhat taller
>bridge!
> Brian
>

Genuine original Creosote is still available, just not to the general
public. It's use has been confined to professional application and banned
from where regular contact would be likely ie benches, picnic tables etc . I
use it extensively on my farm buildings and fences.

It's price has risen dramatically - the last two 25 litre drums that I
bought (last one last week) were £58.30 each. Remember it was originally a
by product of making 'Town Gas' from coal, whereas now a days I assume
that's not being made anymore.

Andrew

[Brian Gaff]

Yes that is right, now you mention it, so it might also be made by a
process which needs to be cleaned up afterwards. You end up with those
blackened clinker stuff, which I note has been used to fill up numerous clay
quarries around where I am and houses built on top,. I do hope the stuff is
inert.

The thing I always recall about it was the smell, it was actually quite
nice, but of course as it often never quite dried, you could easily get it
on your clothing and it was the devils job to get it off again, and that is
over and above any toxicity of long term exposure.

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please!

"Andrew Mawson" <andrew@please_remove_me.mawson.org.uk> wrote in message
news:pd0pum$ble$1...@dont-email.me...

[Harry Bloomfield]

on 10/05/2018, Brian Gaff supposed :

> The thing I always recall about it was the smell, it was actually quite nice,

I loved the smell too - Back in the day, it was always suggested to be
good for your lungs..

[Andy Burns]

Harry Bloomfield wrote:

> I loved the smell too - Back in the day, it was always suggested to be
> good for your lungs..

I thought I had a container of the creosote substitute in the shed, but
when I had a clear out of old paint cans etc, turns out it's the real stuff.

[Andrew]

On 10/05/2018 07:47, Andrew Mawson wrote:
> It's use has been confined to professional application and banned from
> where regular contact would be likely ie benches, picnic tables etc . I
> use it extensively on my farm buildings and fences.

But BT were given exemption, so the telephone poles next to the
pavement that children can hug, rub or lick are still treated with
proper creosote

[Andrew]

Keep it. The EU police have made this illegal for homeowners
to keep it in their sheds, but pay no attention to this.

I have a 2 litre plastic container of this but the sides are
being sucked in so the solvent are slowly evaporating.

Not sure what I could use to thin it down, white spirit ?

[Andrew]

On 10/05/2018 01:14, Pete Thompson wrote:
> this bridge is over a river that's in a wooded Michigan flood plain

I think the negligent and cack-handed way that the water supplies
were contaminated with Lead, and rendered too dangerous to drink
(for millions of people) is a far more serious problem to worry about
than the carcinogenic properties of coal-tar (which might only
affect few people).

[tabb...@gmail.com]

white spirit for fast evaporation, paraffin for a slower more practical rate.


NT

[fred]

Yes I like the smell and the smell of Jeyes Fluid. SWMBO can't stand either, WIN WIN.

We have a local yard who pressure treats telephone poles with Creosote and I can buy 25l easily

[Andrew Mawson]

"Andrew" wrote in message news:pd1fhe$15qh$3...@gioia.aioe.org...

Conventionally Red Diesel. It's often cut 50:50 for less critical above
ground uses. I recently had a fresh drum and wondered why my spray kept
blocking up. When I poured it though a fine sieve it turned out to have
masses of sawdust in it ! (My spray is the sort you see road crews sealing
the edges of fresh tarmac with, with tar emulsion. Similar to a garden spray
but built like a tank)

Andrew

[Ian Jackson]

In message <93d22e93-11a9-4cb6...@googlegroups.com>,
tabb...@gmail.com writes

If, instead, you want to thicken it up (say, for a robust final coat),
try used engine oil (the sludgier the better). [Probably U rules,]
--
Ian

[Ian Jackson]

In message <dGzcf+WK...@brattleho.plus.com>, Ian Jackson
<ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.co.uk> writes

Or even "Probably against EU rules"!
--
Ian

[fred]

Yes the second last container I got was full of lumps. The bottom 2 inched of the 25l drum was full if it. Annoying given the price of the stuff

[Roger Hayter]

Martin <m...@address.invalid> wrote:

> Not common sense? Both cause cancer.

The EU *and* common sense both cause cancer?

--

Roger Hayter

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 11/05/18 14:33, Martin wrote:

> Both are problems that can kill people.
>
So is remaining in te EU.

Sigh.


--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

[Andrew]

On 11/05/2018 14:30, Martin wrote:

> On Thu, 10 May 2018 13:56:11 +0100, Andrew <Andrew9...@mybtinternet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/05/2018 11:59, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>>>
>>>> I loved the smell too - Back in the day, it was always suggested to be
>>>> good for your lungs..
>>>
>>> I thought I had a container of the creosote substitute in the shed, but
>>> when I had a clear out of old paint cans etc, turns out it's the real
>>> stuff.
>>
>> Keep it. The EU police have made this illegal for homeowners
>> to keep it in their sheds, but pay no attention to this.
>

> They made it illegal because it causes cancer, not to upset europhobes.

>
>>
>> I have a 2 litre plastic container of this but the sides are
>> being sucked in so the solvent are slowly evaporating.
>

> Really? How does evaporating make it suck the sides in?
>

Don't know. But the cap is on firmly and the sides have shrunken
in so I assume the molecules of the solvents are managing to leach
through the container somehow, without allowing air to move the
other way.

[Andrew]

On 11/05/2018 14:33, Martin wrote:
> On Thu, 10 May 2018 14:03:12 +0100, Andrew <Andrew9...@mybtinternet.com>
> wrote:
>

> Both are problems that can kill people.
>

Being alive is the most significant cause of death.

far more people die from taking statins, plus the multitude
of additional pills to deal with the 'side effects'.

Far more people die from the sun than because of creosote.

Coal tar is no longer used in soap and other things that people
can bring into contact with their skin.

Banning creosote is a classic EU-inspired over-reaction, just
like banning Vapona strips.

If farmers and BT can still use it, the latter on poles that people
can touch, it cannot be that dangerous.

Meanwhile there are 10 million diesel cars on Britains roads ...

[Dan S. MacAbre]

I've got one I've had for about 25 years, and it's done exactly the same
thing.

[Ian Jackson]

In message <pdbusj$fm7$1...@dont-email.me>, Dan S. MacAbre <n...@way.com>
writes

Same here with the 1/2 gallon I'm saving for a really special occasion.
--
Ian

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Aye, got to make it count :-)

[Andrew]

remember to mangle and hide your identity because out there is a
zealous council elf 'an safety manager determined to enforce the
illegality of storing it at home.

[Andy Burns]

Andrew wrote:

> Martin wrote:
>
>> How does evaporating make it suck the sides in?
>
> Don't know. But the cap is on firmly and the sides have shrunken
> in so I assume the molecules of the solvents are managing to leach
> through the container somehow, without allowing air to move the
> other way.

PU (aka gorilla) glue does similar, I know it goes off by reaction with
moisture, so when I put it away I squeeze it until there's no airspace
in the top of the bottle, but after a few months sitting in the garage,
it is sucked in much further than I squeezed it ...

[dennis@home]

On 14/05/2018 13:18, Andrew wrote:
> On 11/05/2018 14:33, Martin wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 May 2018 14:03:12 +0100, Andrew
>> <Andrew9...@mybtinternet.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/05/2018 01:14, Pete Thompson wrote:
>>>> this bridge is over a river that's in a wooded Michigan flood plain
>>>
>>> I think the negligent and cack-handed way that the water supplies
>>> were contaminated with Lead, and rendered too dangerous to drink
>>> (for millions of people) is a far more serious problem to worry about
>>> than the carcinogenic properties of coal-tar (which might only
>>> affect few people).
>>
>>
>> Both are problems that can kill people.
>>
>
> Being alive is the most significant cause of death.
>
> far more people die from taking statins, plus the multitude
> of additional pills to deal with the 'side effects'.

How many of the 180,000 deaths from heart disease each year would have
not done so if they were on statins?

>
> Far more people die from the sun than because of creosote.

Now, probably, in the past?

>
> Coal tar is no longer used in soap and other things that people
> can bring into contact with their skin.

Are you saying polytar shampoo (for example) isn't coal tar based?

>
> Banning creosote is a classic EU-inspired over-reaction, just
> like banning Vapona strips.

An over reaction to what?
You do understand the problems?

>
> If farmers and BT can still use it, the latter on poles that people
> can touch, it cannot be that dangerous.
>
> Meanwhile there are 10 million diesel cars on Britains roads ...

Yes some of which should be removed.
However that's up to the UK government as the EU can't actually pass a
law that will remove them unlike what brexshiteers keep claiming.

[Ian Jackson]

In message <pvlKC.102072$ny5....@fx17.am4>, "dennis@home"
<den...@invalid.invalid> writes

I believe 'tis said that in areas where there is at least some degree of
air pollution, some modern diesels are so clean that the exhaust is
actually less polluting than the air going in.
>

--
Ian

[tabb...@gmail.com]

On Monday, 14 May 2018 21:19:06 UTC+1, Ian Jackson wrote:
> In message <pvlKC.102072$ny5....@fx17.am4>, "dennis@home"
> <den...@invalid.invalid> writes

> >> Banning creosote is a classic EU-inspired over-reaction, just
> >> like banning Vapona strips.
> >
> >An over reaction to what?
> >You do understand the problems?

OPs are a problem, but the inability get OPs is also a serious problem. The law on that has not proven very sensible so far.

> >> If farmers and BT can still use it, the latter on poles that people
> >> can touch, it cannot be that dangerous.

it's not. It's an issue people need to be aware of if using it, but banning its use seems OTT to me, and again counterproductive.

> >> Meanwhile there are 10 million diesel cars on Britains roads ...
> >
> >Yes some of which should be removed.
> >However that's up to the UK government as the EU can't actually pass a
> >law that will remove them unlike what brexshiteers keep claiming.
> >
> I believe 'tis said that in areas where there is at least some degree of
> air pollution, some modern diesels are so clean that the exhaust is
> actually less polluting than the air going in.

Diesels are being scapegoated. Most particulate pollution comes from tyres kicking up material on the road and shedding rubber.


NT

[Rod Speed]

<tabb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:20208562-536b-4ec2...@googlegroups.com...

No evidence that that stuff is any health problem.