Batteries for wireless heating controller

[gremlin_95]

Hi there,

Since September we have been running a Vaillant VRC430f Weather
compensator*, it all works very well apart from one thing; it seems to
drain batteries for fun.

The batteries only last a few months before the unit displays a warning,
then the backlight won't come on and then then you can't use the unit at
all but it will continue working in accordance with the last settings. I
haven't let it go further than this. In 7 months, we have used replaced
the 4 x AA batteries, twice. The batteries I am currently using are
Duracell Procell**

Can anyone suggest some better batteries? The manual states that
rechargeable batteries are not suitable although it doesn't say why and
apparently good quality alkaline batteries should last 1.5 years! The
unit was simply set up with a small amount of tweaking in the first few
weeks but after that it is simply left alone (the display turns it self
off completely if it isn't tampered with), the only time it is actually
used is when the heating is required earlier. I have no clue why it's
using batteries so quickly.

*
http://www.vaillant.co.uk/homeowners/products/controls/heating-system-controls/produkt_vaillant/ht-vrc-430f.html

**
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Duracell-Procell-Batteries-Box-PROCELL/dp/B000KHDXLG

Cheers

--
David

[Roger Mills]

Dunno why it's getting through batteries, butb the reason you can't use
re-chargables is probably that they are usually only 1.2v whereas
alkaline batteries are 1.5v
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
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[John Williamson]

gremlin_95 wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> Since September we have been running a Vaillant VRC430f Weather
> compensator*, it all works very well apart from one thing; it seems to
> drain batteries for fun.
>
> The batteries only last a few months before the unit displays a warning,
> then the backlight won't come on and then then you can't use the unit at
> all but it will continue working in accordance with the last settings. I
> haven't let it go further than this. In 7 months, we have used replaced
> the 4 x AA batteries, twice. The batteries I am currently using are
> Duracell Procell**
>

Are you noticing an excessive number of heating on/off cycles? The
controller sends a pulse to the receiver every time something changes,
so the more cycles you have, the less time the batteries will last.

It's also possible you have a rogue unit which has a higher current draw
than the standard for some reason.

> Can anyone suggest some better batteries? The manual states that
> rechargeable batteries are not suitable although it doesn't say why and
> apparently good quality alkaline batteries should last 1.5 years! The
> unit was simply set up with a small amount of tweaking in the first few
> weeks but after that it is simply left alone (the display turns it self
> off completely if it isn't tampered with), the only time it is actually
> used is when the heating is required earlier. I have no clue why it's
> using batteries so quickly.
>

One reason for not using rechargeables for this sort of application is
that most AA and AAA cells are NiMh types, which will self discharge
within a couple of months, even when left disconnected. They also start
from a slightly lower terminal voltage than primary alkaline type cells.

It might be worth trying a set of the Duracell Lithium AA cells.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[ARWadsworth]

Or that re-chargables self discharge too quickly?

--
Adam

[gremlin_95]

On 12/03/2012 19:32, John Williamson wrote:
>>
>
> Are you noticing an excessive number of heating on/off cycles? The
> controller sends a pulse to the receiver every time something changes,
> so the more cycles you have, the less time the batteries will last.
>
> It's also possible you have a rogue unit which has a higher current
> draw than the standard for some reason.
>
>

> One reason for not using rechargeables for this sort of application is
> that most AA and AAA cells are NiMh types, which will self discharge
> within a couple of months, even when left disconnected. They also
> start from a slightly lower terminal voltage than primary alkaline
> type cells.
>
> It might be worth trying a set of the Duracell Lithium AA cells.
>

Thanks for that, there isn't really excessive cycling but I know the
controller is constantly sending signals to the boiler to knock down or
increase the flow temperature especially during the initial warm up
time. There is a red light on the fascia on the boiler which flashes
when communicating with the controller. I guess I could phone Vaillant
though I am not sure they will be interested.

--
David

[Mark]

ARWadsworth wrote:


>>
>> Dunno why it's getting through batteries, butb the reason you can't
>> use re-chargables is probably that they are usually only 1.2v whereas
>> alkaline batteries are 1.5v
>
> Or that re-chargables self discharge too quickly?
>

never heard of Eneloop ?

and you can now get 1.5volt Rechargeable Alkaline, but not tried them as
yet.
https://www.pureenergydistribution.com/


-

[John Rumm]

I think it would be a very useful test of their tech support...

(especially for those of us thinking of installing a Vaillant shortly ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
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\=================================================================/

[Andy Burns]

Mark wrote:

> and you can now get 1.5volt Rechargeable Alkaline, but not tried them as
> yet.
> https://www.pureenergydistribution.com/

No mention of capacity, or number of recharge cycles.

[gremlin_95]

On 12/03/2012 22:34, John Rumm wrote:
>
> I think it would be a very useful test of their tech support...
>
> (especially for those of us thinking of installing a Vaillant shortly ;-)
>
>

Ahh, previous experience hasn't exactly been positive unfortunately.
Phone is answered fairly quickly and is a standard rate number but I
didn't have any confidence in what I was being told; I wanted to know
what control strategy to set the VRC430f to use, I was told the which
one to use in the end but no explanation of what it actually means or
does so I had to experiment in my own time and see the difference.
Emails were initially replied to within 24 hours but a follow up took
over 5 days :(

If you are considering a Vaillant, be aware that the current Ecotec
range is being replaced with a new range next month. I would either get
one now or wait till the new range has proven it self for a while! The
current range is excellent now as all the initial problems such as
rubber hoses, pressure sensors, pumps etc are all sorted out.

http://www.vaillant-vip.co.uk/

Our Vaillant has been in over 3 years now though and hasn't missed a beat :)

--
David

[Ian Jackson]

In message <jjlt8h$bkp$1...@dont-email.me>, Mark <ma...@127.0.0.1> writes

The prices look very good. However, unless I've missed it, there's no
sign of any capacity ratings (which seems strange).
--
Ian

[Stephen H]

Try some Energizer Lithium Batteries, they are expensive, around £8 quid
for a pack of 4 but they do last longer. Really good for digital cameras.

Failing that, whats to stop you from running a mails wall wart and
feeding 3 volts via twin bell wire to the programmable room thermostats?

Stephen.

[Rod Speed]

ARWadsworth wrote
> Roger Mills wrote
>> gremlin_95 wrote

>>> Since September we have been running a Vaillant VRC430f Weather
>>> compensator*, it all works very well apart from one thing; it seems
>>> to drain batteries for fun.

>>> The batteries only last a few months before the unit displays a
>>> warning, then the backlight won't come on and then then you can't
>>> use the unit at all but it will continue working in accordance with
>>> the last settings. I haven't let it go further than this. In 7
>>> months, we have used replaced the 4 x AA batteries, twice. The
>>> batteries I am currently using are Duracell Procell**

>>> Can anyone suggest some better batteries? The manual states that
>>> rechargeable batteries are not suitable although it doesn't say why
>>> and apparently good quality alkaline batteries should last 1.5
>>> years! The unit was simply set up with a small amount of tweaking
>>> in the first few weeks but after that it is simply left alone (the
>>> display turns it self off completely if it isn't tampered with),
>>> the only time it is actually used is when the heating is required
>>> earlier. I have no clue why it's using batteries so quickly.

>>> *
>>> http://www.vaillant.co.uk/homeowners/products/controls/heating-system-controls/produkt_vaillant/ht-vrc-430f.html

>>> **
>>> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Duracell-Procell-Batteries-Box-PROCELL/dp/B000KHDXLG

>> Dunno why it's getting through batteries, butb the reason you can't
>> use re-chargables is probably that they are usually only 1.2v whereas
>> alkaline batteries are 1.5v

> Or that re-chargables self discharge too quickly?

Not anymore, there are plenty that dont now.

[The Natural Philosopher]

in nearly all cases I have found the dry cell to be better than a
rechargeable, capacity wise. Just crap on high discharges
.


--
To people who know nothing, anything is possible.
To people who know too much, it is a sad fact
that they know how little is really possible -
and how hard it is to achieve it.

[Mark]

The seller on Amazon claims 500 re-charge cycles if not fully discharged,
ordinary Alkaline cells don’t normally have their capacity stated.
as i said have not tried them and not recommending them just that they may
be useful in a situation like the OP where a 1.5v cell are needed.


-

[John Rumm]

Yes good point... wonder if that means the current range will get
discounted a bit to clear stocks?

[Dave Liquorice]

On Mon, 12 Mar 2012 22:53:04 +0000, gremlin_95 wrote:

> Our Vaillant has been in over 3 years now though and hasn't missed a
> beat :)

I should think not! Change the 3 to 10 would be better and 15 good.
What is it with boilers and people these days were a break down is
expected within 3 years and replacement after 5?

--
Cheers
Dave.

[The Other Mike]

On Mon, 12 Mar 2012 18:37:32 +0000, gremlin_95 <daw**dseed@g**ail.com>
wrote:

>Hi there,
>
>Since September we have been running a Vaillant VRC430f Weather
>compensator*, it all works very well apart from one thing; it seems to
>drain batteries for fun.
>
>The batteries only last a few months before the unit displays a warning,
>then the backlight won't come on and then then you can't use the unit at
>all but it will continue working in accordance with the last settings. I
>haven't let it go further than this. In 7 months, we have used replaced
>the 4 x AA batteries, twice. The batteries I am currently using are
>Duracell Procell**
>
>Can anyone suggest some better batteries? The manual states that
>rechargeable batteries are not suitable although it doesn't say why and
>apparently good quality alkaline batteries should last 1.5 years! The
>unit was simply set up with a small amount of tweaking in the first few
>weeks but after that it is simply left alone (the display turns it self
>off completely if it isn't tampered with), the only time it is actually
>used is when the heating is required earlier. I have no clue why it's
>using batteries so quickly.

If you need the ultimate capacity in primary cell AA's or AAA's then
Energizer Lithiums are the answer - they are really expensive though!

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf


--