Shaver points and electric toothbrushes

[David WE Roberts]

I thought that shaver points were fine for charging electgric toothbrushes.
Well, the Braun toothbrushes come with a two pin plug which seems designed
for shaver points.

Reading the Screwfix reviews on the MK shaver point it seems that it is not
designed for continuous use and overheats if you leave an electric
toothbrush charging.
This cracks the faceplate.

So does anyone know of a suitable shaver point?
Used to have one in the last house which was fine but I an't remember the
make/model.

Cheers


Dave R

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

[John Rumm]

On 23/08/2012 16:32, David WE Roberts wrote:
> I thought that shaver points were fine for charging electgric toothbrushes.
> Well, the Braun toothbrushes come with a two pin plug which seems
> designed for shaver points.
>
> Reading the Screwfix reviews on the MK shaver point it seems that it is
> not designed for continuous use and overheats if you leave an electric
> toothbrush charging.
> This cracks the faceplate.
>
> So does anyone know of a suitable shaver point?
> Used to have one in the last house which was fine but I an't remember
> the make/model.

Ideally you need the type without the isolating transformer... however
these are not suitable for installation in most moderate sized bathrooms.


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[NT]

On Aug 23, 4:42 pm, John Rumm <see.my.signat...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> On 23/08/2012 16:32, David WE Roberts wrote:
>
> > I thought that shaver points were fine for charging electgric toothbrushes.
> > Well, the Braun toothbrushes come with a two pin plug which seems
> > designed for shaver points.
>
> > Reading the Screwfix reviews on the MK shaver point it seems that it is
> > not designed for continuous use and overheats if you leave an electric
> > toothbrush charging.
> > This cracks the faceplate.
>
> > So does anyone know of a suitable shaver point?
> > Used to have one in the last house which was fine but I an't remember
> > the make/model.
>
> Ideally you need the type without the isolating transformer... however
> these are not suitable for installation in most moderate sized bathrooms.

Run it off a 20w isolation transformer rated for continuous duty


NT

[John Stumbles]

On Thu, 23 Aug 2012 16:32:03 +0100, David WE Roberts wrote:

> Reading the Screwfix reviews on the MK shaver point it seems that it is
> not designed for continuous use and overheats if you leave an electric
> toothbrush charging.
> This cracks the faceplate.

Do MK actually say that themselves? Sounds very unlikely that the
miniscule current drawn by the toothbrush charger would make any
noticeable difference to the power dissipated in the shaver transformer,
and even more improbable that it would dissipate enough power as heat to
crack a faceplate! Not on a reputable genuine MK unit anyway: substitute
some POS counterfeit item and all bets are off...

--
John Stumbles

I can't stand intolerance

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <a9n0oj...@mid.individual.net>,

David WE Roberts <nos...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Reading the Screwfix reviews on the MK shaver point it seems that it is
> not designed for continuous use and overheats if you leave an electric
> toothbrush charging. This cracks the faceplate.

Get one with a metal faceplate. That won't crack - and will help keeping
it cool.

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[David WE Roberts]

"Huge" <Hu...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote in message
news:a9n5dc...@mid.individual.net...

> I'm with you.
>
> I've just been and looked at the shaver point in our bathroom, which has
> had an electric toothbrush plugged into it for ~20 years. It's slightly
> warm to the touch and humming faintly. (It used to hum loudly until I
> filled the transformer with superglue). It's not an MK, but I don't
> think it's a PoS, either.


So what make is it?

[Bob Eager]

Or indeed the inferior MK units apparently sold by B&Q...!

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

[David WE Roberts]

"John Stumbles" <john.s...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:a9n55...@mid.individual.net...

Go read the Screwfix reviews
http://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-dual-voltage-shaver-socket-115-230v-white/55378

[Dave]

David WE Roberts wrote :

> I thought that shaver points were fine for charging electgric toothbrushes.
> Well, the Braun toothbrushes come with a two pin plug which seems designed
> for shaver points.
>
> Reading the Screwfix reviews on the MK shaver point it seems that it is not
> designed for continuous use and overheats if you leave an electric toothbrush
> charging.
> This cracks the faceplate.
>
> So does anyone know of a suitable shaver point?
> Used to have one in the last house which was fine but I an't remember the
> make/model.
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Dave R

Get the stainless steel (or whatever metal it is) faceplate version.

[Andy Champ]

On 23/08/2012 16:32, David WE Roberts wrote:

>

> So does anyone know of a suitable shaver point?
> Used to have one in the last house which was fine but I an't remember
> the make/model.
>

We have two. They both work ... but...

The Crabtree one (which must be getting on for 30 years old) does the
job fine. The unbranded one switches the transformer with the light,
which means charging for half a day is a bit inefficient.

Andy

[The Other Mike]

On Thu, 23 Aug 2012 16:32:03 +0100, "David WE Roberts" <nos...@btinternet.com>
wrote:

>I thought that shaver points were fine for charging electgric toothbrushes.
>Well, the Braun toothbrushes come with a two pin plug which seems designed
>for shaver points.
>
>Reading the Screwfix reviews on the MK shaver point it seems that it is not
>designed for continuous use and overheats if you leave an electric
>toothbrush charging.
>This cracks the faceplate.
>
>So does anyone know of a suitable shaver point?
>Used to have one in the last house which was fine but I an't remember the
>make/model.

Unless MK have radically changed their design then the screwfix review is a load
of bollocks. The chargers on Braun toothbrushes (ours is the 2000 model) are
rated at one and a bit VA. It's left on near permanent charge in an MK shaver
point. We've gone through a number of electric toothbrushes over the years
dropped, knackered batteries etc but the shaver point is from circa 1991.

--

[chris French]

In message <ocad38d5hgb2u4jfd...@4ax.com>, The Other Mike
<rootpa...@somewhereorother.com> writes

>On Thu, 23 Aug 2012 16:32:03 +0100, "David WE Roberts" <nos...@btinternet.com>
>wrote:
>
>>I thought that shaver points were fine for charging electgric toothbrushes.
>>Well, the Braun toothbrushes come with a two pin plug which seems designed
>>for shaver points.
>>
>>Reading the Screwfix reviews on the MK shaver point it seems that it is not
>>designed for continuous use and overheats if you leave an electric
>>toothbrush charging.
>>This cracks the faceplate.
>>
>>So does anyone know of a suitable shaver point?
>>Used to have one in the last house which was fine but I an't remember the
>>make/model.
>
>Unless MK have radically changed their design then the screwfix review
>is a load
>of bollocks.

It does sound pretty weird. And you get quite a bit of bollocks in such
reviews.

>The chargers on Braun toothbrushes (ours is the 2000 model) are
>rated at one and a bit VA. It's left on near permanent charge in an MK shaver
>point. We've gone through a number of electric toothbrushes over the years
>dropped, knackered batteries etc but the shaver point is from circa 1991.
>

We had a shaver point in the old bathroom, it never had a problem.

The one here doesn't either
--
Chris French

[Brian Gaff]

What is the point of shaver points exactly? Is this some legacy thing?
I notice for example, and don't try this at home... that the pitch of the
pins and their size is ideal for slipping into the live and neutral of a
13a socket. All one needs is a dummy earth pin or screwdriver to release the
shutter.
Yes, its possibly very dangerous, but it does work nonetheless.
Brian

--
--
From the sofa of Brian Gaff -
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"chris French" <newspos...@familyfrench.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3ySnSIKt...@blackhole.familyfrench.co.uk...

[Tim Lamb]

In message <k17ad3$2o6$1...@news.albasani.net>, Brian Gaff
<bri...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes

>What is the point of shaver points exactly? Is this some legacy thing?
> I notice for example, and don't try this at home... that the pitch of the
>pins and their size is ideal for slipping into the live and neutral of a
>13a socket. All one needs is a dummy earth pin or screwdriver to release the
>shutter.
>Yes, its possibly very dangerous, but it does work nonetheless.

Not in my recent experience, Brian.

We took over a rented holiday cottage in Suffolk for a few days last
week. Unfortunately the bathroom shaver light did not work despite
trying various combinations with the room light.

Rather than going 3 days without shaving, I tried your 13 amp socket
trick and found the shaver (Philips) pin pitch too narrow to enter.

regards

--
Tim Lamb

[Andy Burns]

Brian Gaff wrote:

> the pitch of the
> pins and their size is ideal for slipping into the live and neutral of a
> 13a socket. All one needs is a dummy earth pin

I think you're supposed to refer to them as ISODs (Insulated Shutter
Opening Device).

[whisky-dave]

iSods the new Apple device :)

[Richard Russell]

On Aug 23, 11:07 pm, The Other Mike

<rootpassw...@somewhereorother.com> wrote:
> The chargers on Braun toothbrushes (ours is the 2000 model) are
> rated at one and a bit VA.

Our Braun Oral-B charger is labelled as 1.2 Watts (*not* VA), and of
course as far as the shaver socket is concerned it's current
consumption that matters rather than power. Nevertheless I've never
had a problem with leaving a toothbrush on charge 'continuously'.

The same cannot be said for all appliances. We tried using a Philips
LED nightlight in a bathroom shaver socket; the quoted power
consumption was well below the transformer rating, but it used a
simple 'capacitor dropper' technique and the power factor was
terrible. The transformer rapidly overheated and shut down
(fortunately it was an auto-resetting thermal cutout).

But I would hope that a toothbrush charger, designed for use in a
bathroom, would have a more sensible power factor (quoting the VA
rating on the product would be helpful however).

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article
<3e3a255e-2912-4328...@k20g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>,

Richard Russell <ne...@rtrussell.co.uk> wrote:
> Our Braun Oral-B charger is labelled as 1.2 Watts (*not* VA), and of
> course as far as the shaver socket is concerned it's current
> consumption that matters rather than power.

Eh? Transformers are almost always rated in VA.

--
*Why do we say something is out of whack? What is a whack? *

[Richard Russell]

On Aug 24, 12:56 pm, "Dave Plowman (News)" <d...@davenoise.co.uk>
wrote:

> Transformers are almost always rated in VA.

So? Given that the voltage is known pretty accurately, VA and current
are effectively interchangeable. The limiting factors as far as
transformers are concerned are primarily heating (I^2R) and
saturation; in both cases it's the current that matters.

My point was that the power consumption (which is what the Braun
toothbrush charger quotes) isn't relevant to determining whether or
not the shaver transformer will be able to cope with the load. I
assume it's quoted to emphasise its 'green' credentials, but the VA
figure would be more useful.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

[PeterC]

On my Braun's charger, which gets almost imperceptibly warm in a 13A socket
even in Summer, the plug-in meter gave no reading on W or VA (no mantissa).
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

[The Other Mike]

On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 04:29:01 -0700 (PDT), Richard Russell <ne...@rtrussell.co.uk>
wrote:

>On Aug 23, 11:07�pm, The Other Mike
><rootpassw...@somewhereorother.com> wrote:
>> The chargers on Braun toothbrushes (ours is the 2000 model) are
>> rated at one and a bit VA.
>
>Our Braun Oral-B charger is labelled as 1.2 Watts (*not* VA)

I was going from memory. Some time ago I roughly calculated what it would cost
to leave on charge for a complete year. I've forgotten how much that was too :(


--

[Andy Burns]

The Other Mike wrote:

> Richard Russell <ne...@rtrussell.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Our Braun Oral-B charger is labelled as 1.2 Watts (*not* VA)
>

> Some time ago I roughly calculated what it would cost
> to leave on charge for a complete year. I've forgotten how much that was too :(

Without even bothering the back of a fag-packet, I'd say about �1.20

[Graham.]

On Fri, 24 Aug 2012 08:27:31 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
<bri...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>What is the point of shaver points exactly? Is this some legacy thing?
> I notice for example, and don't try this at home... that the pitch of the
>pins and their size is ideal for slipping into the live and neutral of a
>13a socket. All one needs is a dummy earth pin or screwdriver to release the
>shutter.
>Yes, its possibly very dangerous, but it does work nonetheless.
> Brian
>
>--

It's the thinner pinned Euro plugs that do that.
Shaver plugs have thicker pins, the same dimensions as German Schuko
plug pins.

Most of the 13A sockets in this house have the panted MK shutter
system that doesn't involve the earth pin so a Euro plug will go right
in.
Not to be recommended of course.

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[Andy Wade]

On 23/08/2012 23:07, The Other Mike wrote:
>
> Unless MK have radically changed their design then the screwfix review is a load
> of bollocks.

Either that, or it's based on old information. In the current
Clearshave section in the MK catalogue

http://www.mkelectric.com/Documents/English/EN%20MK%20Catalogue/Clearshave%20Plus.pdf

It says "Clearshave products with shaver sockets are now all
suitable for use with electric toothbrushes too."

--
Andy

[Andy Wade]

On 24/08/2012 21:55, I wrote:

> It says "Clearshave products with shaver sockets are now all
> suitable for use with electric toothbrushes too."

And the K701WHI shaver supply unit, which is a 'logic plus' product,
rather than 'clearshave' is now described as being a "Shaver/Toothbrush
Supply Unit,"

http://www.mkelectric.com/Documents/English/EN%20MK%20Catalogue/Logic%20Plus.pdf
(p.6 of the PDF).

--
Andy

[SteveW]

I quite agree that a genuine MK item is unlikely to have any problem
with this. However, plugging in a toothbrush does have more of an effect
than you might imagine, as I'm pretty sure that the normal arrangement
is that the transformer is de-energised and is only energised by the
action of plugging something in.

SteveW

[SteveW]

On 24/08/2012 08:27, Brian Gaff wrote:
> What is the point of shaver points exactly? Is this some legacy thing?
> I notice for example, and don't try this at home... that the pitch of the
> pins and their size is ideal for slipping into the live and neutral of a
> 13a socket. All one needs is a dummy earth pin or screwdriver to release the
> shutter.

Some sockets (certainly older MK and quite possibly the current ones)
don't need the dummy earth pin, as they don't open the shutter that way.
Instead the shutter is pivoted in the middle and has "ramps" in opposing
directions, so as a plug is inserted, the live and neutral pins rotate
the shutter open.

SteveW

[NT]

On Aug 23, 4:50 pm, NT <meow2...@care2.com> wrote:
> On Aug 23, 4:42 pm, John Rumm <see.my.signat...@nowhere.null> wrote:

>
>
>
> > On 23/08/2012 16:32, David WE Roberts wrote:
>
> > > I thought that shaver points were fine for charging electgric toothbrushes.
> > > Well, the Braun toothbrushes come with a two pin plug which seems
> > > designed for shaver points.
>

> > > Reading the Screwfix reviews on the MK shaver point it seems that it is
> > > not designed for continuous use and overheats if you leave an electric
> > > toothbrush charging.
> > > This cracks the faceplate.
>

> > > So does anyone know of a suitable shaver point?
> > > Used to have one in the last house which was fine but I an't remember
> > > the make/model.
>

> > Ideally you need the type without the isolating transformer... however
> > these are not suitable for installation in most moderate sized bathrooms.
>
> Run it off a 20w isolation transformer rated for continuous duty
>
> NT

Another option is to heatsink a transformer and add ventilation. Use
ali not steel for the heatsink, got to be nonmagnetic. Its a simple
way to uprate transformers a bit.


NT

[David WE Roberts]

"Andy Wade" <spamb...@maxwell.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a9q82m...@mid.individual.net...

Which implies that in the past they may not have been. :-)
So the reviews may reflect the performance of past MK sockets.
Ah - followed the link and this is for lights with a shaver socket.
Up thread people have complained that the socket is only live when the light
is on.
These now turn the socket on at plug insertion.
So possibly nothing to do with overheating at all.

Cheers

Dave R

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <k18un9$nu8$1...@dont-email.me>,

SteveW <st...@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
> I quite agree that a genuine MK item is unlikely to have any problem
> with this. However, plugging in a toothbrush does have more of an effect
> than you might imagine, as I'm pretty sure that the normal arrangement
> is that the transformer is de-energised and is only energised by the
> action of plugging something in.

Well yes. But how many simply leave the shaver plugged in and switch off
at the shaver? This is how you switch off pretty well every electrical
appliance - not by unplugging it.

--
*42.7% of statistics are made up. Sorry, that should read 47.2% *

[Rod Speed]

"John Stumbles" <john.s...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:a9n55...@mid.individual.net...

> On Thu, 23 Aug 2012 16:32:03 +0100, David WE Roberts wrote:
>

>> Reading the Screwfix reviews on the MK shaver point it seems that it is
>> not designed for continuous use and overheats if you leave an electric
>> toothbrush charging.
>> This cracks the faceplate.
>

> Do MK actually say that themselves? Sounds very unlikely that the
> miniscule current drawn by the toothbrush charger would make any
> noticeable difference to the power dissipated in the shaver transformer,
> and even more improbable that it would dissipate enough power as heat to
> crack a faceplate!

Yes.

> Not on a reputable genuine MK unit anyway: substitute

> some POS counterfeit item and all bets are off...

Nope, still true of those too.

[Brian Gaff]

There is something odd going on with shavers. My new Remmington has a kind
of narrower plug than the normal shaver plug and the plug is very long with
the lead coming out the side and the connection to the shaver is smaller
than the old kind, so this means the psu is now in the plug one assumes, but
why change the pin size. it still works in a shaver adaptor, but not as
positive. It also says that you should not leave it running via the mains
for very long as it might fail. Fantasic, a great leap backwards.
it also has no light so people with sight cannot tell its chaging unless
they get their magnifiers out and look at a tiny lcd..
Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email: bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________


"David WE Roberts" <nos...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:a9n0oj...@mid.individual.net...

>I thought that shaver points were fine for charging electgric toothbrushes.
> Well, the Braun toothbrushes come with a two pin plug which seems designed
> for shaver points.
>

> Reading the Screwfix reviews on the MK shaver point it seems that it is
> not designed for continuous use and overheats if you leave an electric
> toothbrush charging.
> This cracks the faceplate.
>

> So does anyone know of a suitable shaver point?
> Used to have one in the last house which was fine but I an't remember the
> make/model.
>

[Mathew Newton]

Brian,

It looks like you may have inadvertently changed the sorting order of the newsgroup as you've been resurrecting a lot of old threads!

Mathew


On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:52:08 PM UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:

> There is something odd going on with shavers. [...]

[sharonca...@gmail.com]

Hi.just joining in the toothbrush talk and wondered if anyone could offer help. The sink vanity unit I have has 3 down lights and shaver point with kinda block thing beside it. It does say shavers only and power only works when pull cord on to put lights on in unit. I've been charging a brawn family type into it for periods when lights on and been ok but recently I think I smell burnin from toothbrush unit and crackling sound. Haven't used since. Is the blank a fuse place or other voltage point? Can lights b shut off or bypassed so they don't need to be on while charging? It's such a pain!!! Any advise??
Thanks
ShaC

[Andy Burns]

sharonca...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi.just joining in the toothbrush talk Any advise??
Get an electrician to fit a socket that's rated for constant toothbrush
charging, as well as sporadic shaver use, e.g.

<https://www.mkelectric.com/en-gb/Products/WD/logicplus/shaversupplyunits/Pages/K701WHI.aspx>

[Andy Burns]

Andy Burns wrote:

> Get an electrician to fit a socket that's rated for constant toothbrush
> charging, as well as sporadic shaver use, e.g.
>
> <https://www.mkelectric.com/en-gb/Products/WD/logicplus/shaversupplyunits/Pages/K701WHI.aspx>

Note the graphic on the old vs new model

<http://sparkydirect.s3.amazonaws.com/K/K701WHI.jpg>

<https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/-AwAAOSwdGFYrroN/s-l300.jpg>

[tabb...@gmail.com]

the other option is plug the toothbrush into an adaptor outside the bathroom


NT

[Nick]

On 25/10/2017 16:44, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

> The socket is designed for a shaver load.
> The toothbrush charger will be next to no load on the isolating
> transformer, particularly when charged, and the socket output
> is likely to rise to 270V (IIRC, it's allowed to go up to 275V
> off-load), which the toothbrush probably wasn't designed for.
>
> Assuming the toothbrush is designed for 120-240V supply, you
> should always plug it into the 120V shaver socket (with an
> adaptor of necessary) when using an isolating socket shaver
> socket.
>
What will happen bad if you use the 240V socket, as I have been doing
for the last 20 or more years.

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <b719b766-d5bf-49eb...@googlegroups.com>,
sharonca...@gmail.com writes:
> Hi.just joining in the toothbrush talk and wondered if anyone could offer h=
> elp. The sink vanity unit I have has 3 down lights and shaver point with ki=
> nda block thing beside it. It does say shavers only and power only works wh=
> en pull cord on to put lights on in unit. I've been charging a brawn family=
> type into it for periods when lights on and been ok but recently I think I=
> smell burnin from toothbrush unit and crackling sound. Haven't used since.=
> Is the blank a fuse place or other voltage point? Can lights b shut off or=
> bypassed so they don't need to be on while charging? It's such a pain!!! A=
> ny advise??

The socket is designed for a shaver load.
The toothbrush charger will be next to no load on the isolating
transformer, particularly when charged, and the socket output
is likely to rise to 270V (IIRC, it's allowed to go up to 275V
off-load), which the toothbrush probably wasn't designed for.

Assuming the toothbrush is designed for 120-240V supply, you
should always plug it into the 120V shaver socket (with an
adaptor of necessary) when using an isolating socket shaver
socket.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[Robin]

On 25/10/2017 16:44, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

> Assuming the toothbrush is designed for 120-240V supply, you
> should always plug it into the 120V shaver socket (with an
> adaptor of necessary) when using an isolating socket shaver
> socket.
>

No longer a safe assumption given the OP referred to a "brawn family
type". Braun stopped providing dual voltage chargers with their Oral-B
toothbrushes several years ago.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <osqbod$n21$1...@dont-email.me>,

You may get shorter life out of it than you would otherwise
have done.