fixing metal back box in stud wall

[re...@to.newsgroup.invalid]

Hello,

What is the best way to fit a metal back box to a stud wall? I know I
could use a dry lining box, but a metal box screwed in, just seems
more secure imho.

Should the box have pre-drilled holes for screws to go through or do I
have to drill my own? The box I have got has one hole per side but
they are on the front edge, so they would align with the plasterboard
rather than a noggin and they seem too wide for screws.

Thanks
Stephen.

[Tricky Dicky]

Use a dry lining box, you are making a simple job much more complicated trying to fix a metal box in place. It is easy enough when the studding is exposed but a whole different and complicated process in an existing wall. What makes you think a dry lining box is any less secure, I have seen metal boxes pulled out of plastered walls easier than a dry lining box. Most metal boxes I have seen in block walls have been secured by a single clout nail and relying on the subsequent plaster to hold them in place.

Richard

[phil...@gmail.com]

Use a dry lining box. It's simple, just cut the hole to the right dimensions tightly with a pad saw and clip the box in. When the accessory screws are tightened the plasterboard is clamped between the tabs and the face of the box and accessory.

A metal box will need screwing at the sides to a piece of studwork timber. You would also need a piece of wood the other side and to screw through the plasterboard into the wood to hold it in place.

Philip

[Dave Liquorice]

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 11:16:57 +0100, re...@to.newsgroup.invalid wrote:

> What is the best way to fit a metal back box to a stud wall?

Fit a noggin between the studs at the required height of box from
floor and at the correct depth so that front edge of box is flush or
only just behind the *finished* face of the plasterboard and/or skim.
Fitting a nggin before the wall is boarded out is easy afterwards use
a drylinging box.

> Should the box have pre-drilled holes for screws to go through or do I
> have to drill my own?

Sides generaly don't have holes but the back should, to take
screws/nails into noggin or brick/block.

--
Cheers
Dave.

[spuorg...@gowanhill.com]

On Thursday, 6 August 2015 11:16:53 UTC+1, re...@to.newsgroup.invalid wrote:
> Should the box have pre-drilled holes for screws to go through or do I
> have to drill my own?

Different boxes have different holes in; I've used holes in the left / right / bottom sides to hold back boxes in skirting board. I think they were wickes boxes.

Owain

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <lmc6salh2dj595ju7...@4ax.com>,

<re...@to.newsgroup.invalid> wrote:
> What is the best way to fit a metal back box to a stud wall? I know I
> could use a dry lining box, but a metal box screwed in, just seems
> more secure imho.

Also looks neater. You can see a drylining box is there.

> Should the box have pre-drilled holes for screws to go through or do I
> have to drill my own? The box I have got has one hole per side but
> they are on the front edge, so they would align with the plasterboard
> rather than a noggin and they seem too wide for screws.

What I do is cut a couple of battens from something like 25 x 12mm just a
bit longer than the sides. If you're going to decorate, fix them to the
back of the plasterboard with screws through the plasterboard, and make
good over the heads. Use screws that don't rust. If you don't want to
decorate, you can glue them in place. Clamp with a G clamp until set.

Drill holes top and bottom in the sides of the box lining up with the
centre of the batten, and screw to the batten. Gives as strong a fixing as
the plasterboard. Sounds a bit of a fiddle - but if you've got lots to do
drill all the holes in the boxes in one session, and cut the required
number of battens too.

--
*When the going gets tough, the tough take a coffee break *

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[charles]

In article <54eeefe...@davenoise.co.uk>,

Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <lmc6salh2dj595ju7...@4ax.com>,
> <re...@to.newsgroup.invalid> wrote:
> > What is the best way to fit a metal back box to a stud wall? I know I
> > could use a dry lining box, but a metal box screwed in, just seems
> > more secure imho.

> Also looks neater. You can see a drylining box is there.

There new ones with a much reduced external rim. You'd be pushed to see
any differnce between them and a metal rear box.

> > Should the box have pre-drilled holes for screws to go through or do I
> > have to drill my own? The box I have got has one hole per side but
> > they are on the front edge, so they would align with the plasterboard
> > rather than a noggin and they seem too wide for screws.

> What I do is cut a couple of battens from something like 25 x 12mm just a
> bit longer than the sides. If you're going to decorate, fix them to the
> back of the plasterboard with screws through the plasterboard, and make
> good over the heads. Use screws that don't rust. If you don't want to
> decorate, you can glue them in place. Clamp with a G clamp until set.

> Drill holes top and bottom in the sides of the box lining up with the
> centre of the batten, and screw to the batten. Gives as strong a fixing as
> the plasterboard. Sounds a bit of a fiddle - but if you've got lots to do
> drill all the holes in the boxes in one session, and cut the required
> number of battens too.

--

Please note new email address:
cha...@CandEhope.me.uk

[DerbyBorn]

>
>> What I do is cut a couple of battens from something like 25 x 12mm
>> just a bit longer than the sides. If you're going to decorate, fix
>> them to the back of the plasterboard with screws through the
>> plasterboard, and make good over the heads. Use screws that don't
>> rust. If you don't want to decorate, you can glue them in place.
>> Clamp with a G clamp until set.
>
>> Drill holes top and bottom in the sides of the box lining up with the
>> centre of the batten, and screw to the batten. Gives as strong a
>> fixing as the plasterboard. Sounds a bit of a fiddle - but if you've
>> got lots to do drill all the holes in the boxes in one session, and
>> cut the required number of battens too.
>

If you must go down this path then I would suggest that in addition to two
battens each side of the cut-out (glued) a batten across the back would
then allow you to use the existing fixing holes and the whole assembly will
be clamped tight with the two accessory fixing screws. Just need to get the
right thickness of side battens to clear rhe back of the box. However, I
prefer a drylining box - a suitable socket will hide any rim.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <54eefca2...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>,

charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > Also looks neater. You can see a drylining box is there.

> There new ones with a much reduced external rim. You'd be pushed to see
> any differnce between them and a metal rear box.

Ultra slim metal faced accessories are the fashion these days, with the
plate only a couple of mm thick. Unless the dry lining box is chased into
the plasterboard in some way, it's bound to be visible.

I do realise it won't matter for a cheap and cheerful job - but if DIYing
for the best possible one, it may.

--
*Velcro - what a rip off!*

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <0513e9a6-6fc8-4f13...@googlegroups.com>, Tricky

What some so called pros do when time is money doesn't much matter on a
DIY group, where most will (hopefully) take pride in what they do.

--
*If horrific means to make horrible, does terrific mean to make terrible?

[newshound]

On 06/08/2015 11:41, Tricky Dicky wrote:
> Use a dry lining box, you are making a simple job much more complicated trying to fix a metal box in place. It is easy enough when the studding is exposed but a whole different and complicated process in an existing wall. What makes you think a dry lining box is any less secure, I have seen metal boxes pulled out of plastered walls easier than a dry lining box. Most metal boxes I have seen in block walls have been secured by a single clout nail and relying on the subsequent plaster to hold them in place.
>
> Richard
>

Sanity check, this *is* plasterboard and not lath and plaster?

If the former, dry lining. If the latter, you need to mount it over a
stud (or noggin) in a suitable position to provide access for the cable
through the standard holes. You *may* need to drill new screw holes, for
example if fixing at one end of a double box you might want suitable
screw holes near the top and the bottom.

[charles]

In article <54ef06a...@davenoise.co.uk>,

Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <54eefca2...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>,
> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Also looks neater. You can see a drylining box is there.

> > There new ones with a much reduced external rim. You'd be pushed to see
> > any differnce between them and a metal rear box.

> Ultra slim metal faced accessories are the fashion these days, with the
> plate only a couple of mm thick. Unless the dry lining box is chased into
> the plasterboard in some way, it's bound to be visible.

and these new ones I mentioned are specifically designed for these fittings.

[ARW]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:54ef06a...@davenoise.co.uk...

> In article <54eefca2...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>,
> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> > Also looks neater. You can see a drylining box is there.
>
>> There new ones with a much reduced external rim. You'd be pushed to see
>> any differnce between them and a metal rear box.
>
> Ultra slim metal faced accessories are the fashion these days, with the
> plate only a couple of mm thick.

Not by me:-)

> Unless the dry lining box is chased into
> the plasterboard in some way, it's bound to be visible.

Some flat plate accessories spec that the backbox must be 5mm below the
plaster line to allow the faceplates to fit. Well you cannot do that with a
dry liner back box.

> I do realise it won't matter for a cheap and cheerful job - but if DIYing
> for the best possible one, it may.

Have I ever mentioned that I believe dry liner boxes are the work of the
devil?

--
Adam

[ARW]

"charles" <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:54ef08ca...@charleshope.demon.co.uk...

You mentioned them but you did not name them.

--
Adam

[Andy Burns]

Tricky Dicky wrote:

> Use a dry lining box, you are making a simple job much more complicated trying to fix a metal box in place.

wot 'e said.

[Andy Burns]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> You can see a drylining box is there.

They don't all have a visible lip.

[charles]

In article <mq0dec$1d3$1...@dont-email.me>,

OK: Sold by TLC simply as "Dry Lining Boxes for Flat Plate Accessories"

On the back of one I have, it says DETA

[steve.n]

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 19:29:56 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> In article <0513e9a6-6fc8-4f13...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tricky Dicky <tricky...@sky.com> wrote:
>> Use a dry lining box, you are making a simple job much more complicated
>> trying to fix a metal box in place. It is easy enough when the studding
>> is exposed but a whole different and complicated process in an existing
>> wall. What makes you think a dry lining box is any less secure, I have
>> seen metal boxes pulled out of plastered walls easier than a dry lining
>> box. Most metal boxes I have seen in block walls have been secured by a
>> single clout nail and relying on the subsequent plaster to hold them in
>> place.
>
> What some so called pros do when time is money doesn't much matter on a
> DIY group, where most will (hopefully) take pride in what they do.

ok. now tell the op how to fit the metal backbox and what would make it
more secure than the plastic one

steve

[Robin]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <0513e9a6-6fc8-4f13...@googlegroups.com>,
> Tricky Dicky <tricky...@sky.com> wrote:
>> Use a dry lining box, you are making a simple job much more
>> complicated trying to fix a metal box in place. It is easy enough
>> when the studding is exposed but a whole different and complicated
>> process in an existing wall. What makes you think a dry lining box
>> is any less secure, I have seen metal boxes pulled out of plastered
>> walls easier than a dry lining box. Most metal boxes I have seen in
>> block walls have been secured by a single clout nail and relying on
>> the subsequent plaster to hold them in place.
>
> What some so called pros do when time is money doesn't much matter on
> a DIY group, where most will (hopefully) take pride in what they do.

Then there's people like me who have at times found the various holes in
metal back boxes very convenient for injecting expanding foam to lock
the box nicely into place :)
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <UtPwx.173031$0B6.1...@fx27.am4>,

steve.n <f...@ncythat.net> wrote:
> > What some so called pros do when time is money doesn't much matter on a
> > DIY group, where most will (hopefully) take pride in what they do.


> ok. now tell the op how to fit the metal backbox and what would make
> it more secure than the plastic one

Have done. Earlier in the thread. It's how I've done it for ages.

I can spot a dry lining box at 100 yards and hate them.

But can understand they make things easier for those who don't care.

--
*Why is it that most nudists are people you don't want to see naked?*

[Stephen]

On Thu, 06 Aug 2015 15:18:37 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>What I do is cut a couple of battens from something like 25 x 12mm just a
>bit longer than the sides. If you're going to decorate, fix them to the
>back of the plasterboard with screws through the plasterboard, and make
>good over the heads. Use screws that don't rust. If you don't want to
>decorate, you can glue them in place. Clamp with a G clamp until set.

I'm happy to screw through the plasterboard and make good. I will use
plasterboard screws so that they will not rust.

Thanks.

[Stephen]

On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 20:38:26 +0100, "ARW"
<adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>Have I ever mentioned that I believe dry liner boxes are the work of the
>devil?

I've wondered why they don't have 20mm cut outs? Perhaps its because
they are use for retrofits where you would not be able to insert
conduit etc.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <l5o8sahrg417gm95v...@4ax.com>,

Oh - and depending on make, you might find boxes with the correct holes
already drilled. Use small woodscrews to minimise the chances of the
battens splitting. No6 are usually fine.

--
*A bartender is just a pharmacist with a limited inventory *

[ARW]

"charles" <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote in message

news:54ef10c8...@charleshope.demon.co.uk...

Cheers. Seems they are specific for DETA flat plate accessories.

--
Adam

[charles]

In article <mq2o35$l25$1...@dont-email.me>,

ARW <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> "charles" <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:54ef10c8...@charleshope.demon.co.uk...
> > In article <mq0dec$1d3$1...@dont-email.me>,
> > ARW <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >> "charles" <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> >> news:54ef08ca...@charleshope.demon.co.uk...
> >> > In article <54ef06a...@davenoise.co.uk>,
> >> > Dave Plowman (News) <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> >> >> In article <54eefca2...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>,
> >> >> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >> >> > > Also looks neater. You can see a drylining box is there.
> >> >
> >> >> > There new ones with a much reduced external rim. You'd be pushed to
> >> >> > see
> >> >> > any differnce between them and a metal rear box.
> >> >
> >> >> Ultra slim metal faced accessories are the fashion these days, with
> >> >> the plate only a couple of mm thick. Unless the dry lining box is
> >> >> chased into the plasterboard in some way, it's bound to be visible.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > and these new ones I mentioned are specifically designed for these
> >> > fittings.
> >
> >
> >> You mentioned them but you did not name them.
> >
> > OK: Sold by TLC simply as "Dry Lining Boxes for Flat Plate Accessories"
> >
> > On the back of one I have, it says DETA


> Cheers. Seems they are specific for DETA flat plate accessories.

Don't see why they can't accept any double outlet. The hole centres are
correct and the locking lugs look quite normal.

[ARW]

"charles" <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote in message

news:54ef8440...@charleshope.demon.co.uk...

"Specific in making the DETA flatplate accessory look like its flush to the
wall when using a DETA dry liner" would be a better term

Sure it will also allow the use of any double socket.

Flat plate accessories usually have a gasket - and I suspect that the DETA
gasket is cut/shaped to fit the DETA dry liner box and allow the DETA
faceplate (with matching gasket) to fit closer to the wall.

Flatplate and dryliners not not mix well. However bog standard white MEM
faceplates do cover dry liner boxes - a pity that their sockets "look odd"
as the holes are lower down than other manufacturers.

Cheers

--
Adam

[Tim Watts]

On 07/08/15 18:41, ARW wrote:
> DETA dry liner

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Images/Products/size_3/MTFDLB1.JPG

It looks pretty - but I'm not quite sure how it wins over a normal dry
liner. It still has those 8 lugs - is it really less wide/tall?

[ARW]

"Tim Watts" <tw_u...@dionic.net> wrote in message
news:ov7f9c-...@squidward.sv.dionic.net...

It has the same overall dimensions as a normal dry liner - but it is
specifically designed for use with the DETA flat plate range of accessories
to make them look like less of a cunt when using dryliner boxes. It can be
used for any other accessory by any other manufacturer.

--
Adam

[Andy Burns]

I assume the backbox is specifically designed so the 8 lugs are
concealed in recesses in the DETA frontplates? They might "work" with
normal accessory plates, but wouldn't you end up with gaps between the
pads, which would be more noticeable than the 1mm rim on modern dryliner
boxes?

[Andy Burns]

Andy Burns wrote:

> I assume the backbox is specifically designed so the 8 lugs are
> concealed in recesses in the DETA frontplates?

The DETA "flatplate" catalogue only shows one rear picture (page 49)

<http://www.detaelectrical.co.uk/Deta%20Flatplate%20-%202012%20Wiring%20Accessory%20Catalogue%20Section.pdf>

It doesn't seem to have 8 individual recesses, but apparently a trough
all the way round the edge, with a rubber gasket, maybe Adam can confirm
if the pads simply get buried in the gasket?

[ARW]

"Andy Burns" <usenet....@adslpipe.co.uk> wrote in message
news:nPqdnRoIFtybmVjI...@brightview.co.uk...

That is my understanding. However I seldom fit DETA. I fit Scolmore (OK I
also fit a lot of MK as schools and hospital spec MK).

And I hate flat plate:-)

--
Adam

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo <54eeefe...@davenoise.co.uk>, Dave Plowman (News)
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> escribió:

>Also looks neater. You can see a drylining box is there.

Nonsense.

If you use, e.g. a squared corner dry lining box with a device with
rounded edges, yes, it'll stick out like a sore thumb. But if you take
the trouble to match like-for-like, the edges of the box are invisible.

There are several makes and types of dry-lining box available. It's
worth trying the device with a few different boxes to get a good match
if it matters to you that much.

I've installed several sockets using a dry lining box. You can't tell
the box is there.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <O+oQblHO...@jasper.org.uk>,

Mike Tomlinson <mi...@jasper.org.uk> wrote:
> >Also looks neater. You can see a drylining box is there.

> Nonsense.

> If you use, e.g. a squared corner dry lining box with a device with
> rounded edges, yes, it'll stick out like a sore thumb. But if you take
> the trouble to match like-for-like, the edges of the box are invisible.

So there are dry lining boxes available for every single make of socket?

> There are several makes and types of dry-lining box available. It's
> worth trying the device with a few different boxes to get a good match
> if it matters to you that much.

And if you are using a metal plate fitting, you get a matching metal dry
lining box?

> I've installed several sockets using a dry lining box. You can't tell
> the box is there.

I could.

--
*Eat well, stay fit, die anyway

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo <54efdf3...@davenoise.co.uk>, Dave Plowman (News)
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> escribió:

>I could.

You appear to be exceptionally anally retentive, even by the standards
of usenet.

[Tim Watts]

Ok - I guess the Deta plates must marry with those half round tabs or
something.

I like your

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <LJxhGvIp...@jasper.org.uk>,

Mike Tomlinson <mi...@jasper.org.uk> wrote:
> En el artículo <54efdf3...@davenoise.co.uk>, Dave Plowman (News)
> <da...@davenoise.co.uk> escribió:

> >I could.

> You appear to be exceptionally anally retentive, even by the standards
> of usenet.

No, just have certain standards.

You might be perfectly happy with those bodge boxes designed for a cheap
and cheerful job.

Others may not be.

--
*When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty*

[ARW]

"Mike Tomlinson" <mi...@jasper.org.uk> wrote in message
news:O+oQblHO...@jasper.org.uk...

> En el artículo <54eeefe...@davenoise.co.uk>, Dave Plowman (News)

>

> I've installed several sockets using a dry lining box. You can't tell
> the box is there.

I could tell.

OK for a rented porperty in Goldthorpe - no use for a million pound house in
Totley.

--
Adam

[Windmill]

One thing that makes a metal back box fairly secure is to attach a
piece of wood, or another, inverted, 'spacer' back box of suitable
thickness to the stone or brick wall behind a plastered wall using
wallplugs, then screw the back box to that spacer.

Assuming that there is a stone or brick wall behind the plaster, of
course.

--
Windmill, Til...@NoneHome.com Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ S c o t s h o m e . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost

[Andy Burns]

Windmill wrote:

> Assuming that there is a stone or brick wall behind the plaster, of
> course.

That would be a rather unusual stud wall ...

[charles]

In article <bICdnZx4pN2vulrI...@brightview.co.uk>,

It depends on what you mean my a stud wall. Quite often battens are nailed
to a solid wall with Plaster board on top. This fooled me when I was
"modernising" my daughter's flat some years ago.

[Andy Burns]

charles wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Windmill wrote:
>
>>> Assuming that there is a stone or brick wall behind the plaster
>

>> That would be a rather unusual stud wall ...
>
> It depends on what you mean my a stud wall. Quite often battens are nailed
> to a solid wall with Plaster board on top.

I would call that a dry-liner.

[Windmill]

Lot of unusual things in old Edinburgh flats.

But I was thinking more of lath and plaster walls than drywall.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <nswBt...@way.freeola.net>,

Windmill <spam-n...@Freeola.net.invalid> wrote:
> Andy Burns <usenet....@adslpipe.co.uk> writes:

> >Windmill wrote:

> >> Assuming that there is a stone or brick wall behind the plaster, of
> >> course.

> >That would be a rather unusual stud wall ...

> Lot of unusual things in old Edinburgh flats.

> But I was thinking more of lath and plaster walls than drywall.

Think it was common on stone solid walls to provide a degree of insulation
in the cold north. With bricks, it's easier to make a cavity wall.

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery? *

[Stephen]

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 10:42:25 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>Oh - and depending on make, you might find boxes with the correct holes
>already drilled. Use small woodscrews to minimise the chances of the
>battens splitting. No6 are usually fine.

I have not seen any with pre-drilled holes. Do they have to be placed
anywhere in particular? Not on the knock out obviously! I'm guessing
two per side (on the long side of a double box)

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <5mnosalulfu6587jq...@4ax.com>,

I put the battens down the narrow sides of the box. Uses less timber.

--
*I speak fluent patriarchy but it's not my mother tongue