Plasic pipes in central heating system
In2Home User
system.
Do they last as long as copper?
Can they stand the heat over time?
Is a smaller diameter pipe OK?
--
Terry Smith
terryj...@yahoo.com
Keith Mendum
>
> Could anyone tell me whether plastic pipes are OK for a central heating
> system.
>
> Do they last as long as copper?
>
> Can they stand the heat over time?
>
> Is a smaller diameter pipe OK?
Plastic pipes designed for hot water usage, such as the Hepworth Hep2O
system can be viewed as an excellent replacement for Cu in heating
systems. The bore is slightly smaller than the equivalent Cu pipe, so
don't skimp when sizing.
Hepworth produce a very good technical guide, phone and ask for it
(can't remember the location at the moment). I think they have a
website, try a search.
(No connection with Hepworth, just a satisfied user).
--
Regards,
Keith
Steve E.
wrote:
>Could anyone tell me whether plastic pipes are OK for a central heating
>system.
>
>Do they last as long as copper?
>
>Can they stand the heat over time?
>
>Is a smaller diameter pipe OK?
>
I'm personally still rather un-convinced about the life expectancy of the
fittings (rubber o-rings etc.) They're meant (guaranteed?) to be good for 20
years or so - all well and good untill you realise that much of the (Cu)
pipework in my house is much older than that and still going strong.
Maybe I'm being over-cautious - I'd hate to be accused of being a luddite....
Steve E.
andy the pugh
wrote:
>I'm personally still rather un-convinced about the life expectancy of the
>fittings (rubber o-rings etc.) They're meant (guaranteed?) to be good for 20
>years or so - all well and good untill you realise that much of the (Cu)
>pipework in my house is much older than that and still going strong.
Conversely, the copper piping in my parents house is about 5 years old
and is developing pinhole leaks everywhere.
If only we had known about Hep2O as the time...
Steve E.
>
>Conversely, the copper piping in my parents house is about 5 years old
>and is developing pinhole leaks everywhere.
>
>If only we had known about Hep2O as the time...
Wow - bummer! :-(
Something's not right there. (just to state the blindingly obvious ...)
Steve E.
Steve
<us...@jhsmith.in2home.co.uk> wrote:
>Could anyone tell me whether plastic pipes are OK for a central heating
>system.
Dunno much about central heating, but a couple of bits of Do It Alls'
22mm Qualpex Pipe has replaced/repaired two hoses from my car's
cooling system. Been working nicely for last 20,000 miles.
Steve :o)
Jim Hatfield
<us...@jhsmith.in2home.co.uk> wrote:
>Could anyone tell me whether plastic pipes are OK for a central heating
>system.
>
>Do they last as long as copper?
>
>Can they stand the heat over time?
>
>Is a smaller diameter pipe OK?
Just replaced some pipes under my bedroom floor with plastic, to
prevent ticking when the original copper pipes expanded/contracted.
We used the JG SpeedFit variant, not Hep2O. The only tricky bit is
that if you buy the pipe in reels, it wants to stay coiled, and you
have to "unbend" it before measuring and cutting to length.
It's hard to cut too, though not as hard as Hep2O piping. I was too
stingy to buy the proper tool, and used a copper pipe cutter, which
cuts a groove in it, then finished with a Stanley.
Down for 5 days and no leaks so far !!
jim
Andrew
<ste...@no.email.please> writes
Has Hep20 been on the market for 20 years ?. If not how do they know that it
should last 20 years. Seems a bit like those MTBF figures for modern hard disks
that imply that the device will work for the next 40 years.
--
Andrew
andy the pugh
> >Conversely, the copper piping in my parents house is about 5 years old
> >and is developing pinhole leaks everywhere.
> Something's not right there. (just to state the blindingly obvious ...)
A combination of cheap pipe and very soft water from a private supply.
You can tell something is wrong when the hot water comes out blue....
--
ap
Frank Duffy
<j...@bedlam.demon.co.uk> writes
You do have to be a little careful here. The poster below gleefuly
states "no leaks so far!" But the problem with the wrong sort of pipe
is that it will leak oxygen inwards rather than water out. This means
that 1. you get air into the system because it can bubble in the boiler
and 2. the oxygen leads to corrosion of the metal parts of your system.
Make sure that plastic pipe you use on your heating system has a oxygen
difusion barrier in it.
--
Frank Duffy
Personal email to fr...@chimney.demon.co.uk
at work...
ISOKERN - the safety chimney fdu...@isokern.co.uk
http://www.isokern.co.uk
Chris French
<ke...@nospam.k-mendum.demon.co.uk> writes
>In2Home User wrote:
>>
>> Could anyone tell me whether plastic pipes are OK for a central heating
>> system.
>>
>> Do they last as long as copper?
>>
>> Can they stand the heat over time?
>>
>> Is a smaller diameter pipe OK?
>
>system can be viewed as an excellent replacement
We've used Hep2O for most of the central heating plus other bits of
plumbing - bathroom etc. very happy with it so far.
For more on this you can look up some other posts on Dejanews.
--
Chris French, Leeds
In2Home User
The HEP20 website is http://www.hepworthbp.co.uk/Pages/page4hep.html
I agree with Steve E's point about the O rings.
--
Terry Smith
terryj...@yahoo.com
Andrew Renouf
Actually, HEP20 has been around for 20 years (perhaps more) it was
originally called Acorn and perhaps had another name before. The really
old stuff is black before it changed colour to grey.
I've done all my plumbing on three large jobs (whole houses) leaving
only joints at basin/loos and at the airing cupboard. No joints are
inaccesable. That way if the seals go it can all be fixed in a day !
I've had similar problems with pin-holes in copper by the way
(aggressive well water in Jersey) so HEP20 is more reliable in my
experience.
The only worry I have is the new fittings. I have had one fail and my
Plumber (yes I do have one for possible emergencies in my holiday flats
when I'm away) - he used to purchase £ 20,000 p.a. of HEP20 each year
doing virtually all his jobs in plastic.
He now refuses to use the new fittings (based on problems he has had)
with the plastic grab rings and now uses HEP20 pipe and fittings made by
Polypipe (called polytight). These are almost identical to old HEP20
with stainless steel grab rings.
I'm not sure if there is a problem with the new fittings because I
didn't sort out the leak (in Plymouth whilst I was in jersey at the
time). It seems that the rumour is that the new fittings can slip off
copper pipe.
My next job is installing central heating in a house that I have bought
in Plymouth. I'll be following what my plumber is doing (Polytite
fittings). - better safe than sorry !
- Andrew
hepworth...@my-deja.com
Andrew <and...@skydata.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> The O-ring on my quick-release garden house has to be replaced every
year.
> Has Hep20 been on the market for 20 years ?. If not how do they know
that it
> should last 20 years. Seems a bit like those MTBF figures for modern
hard disks
> that imply that the device will work for the next 40 years.
> --
> Andrew
Hep2O has in fact been on the market over 20 years. Acorn (the
predecessor of Hep2O) was first introduced in 1979. Since this time
many millions of fittings have been successfully installed.
The 'O' ring in the Hep2O fitting is made from EPDM, a high grade
engineering elastomer. The design life of the fitting (and consequently
the 'O' ring) is in excess of 50 years.
For further information see the new Hepworth Plumbing web site
(www.hepworthplumbing.co.uk), where all Hep2O technical literature is
available as downloadable PDF files.
The FREE Hepworth Plumbing Technical Advisory Service can be contacted
at:-
----------------------------------------------------------------
Tel: +44 (0)1226 762014 | Hepworth Plumbing
Fax: +44 (0)1226 766057 | Hazlehead, Crow Edge
Email: plum...@hepworthbp.co.uk | Sheffield, UK
http://www.hepworthplumbing.co.uk/ | S36 4HG
----------------------------------------------------------------
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
hepworth...@my-deja.com
literature in downloadable PDF (Adobe Acrobat) format:-
Mungo Henning
Jim Hatfield wrote:
> Just replaced some pipes under my bedroom floor with plastic, to
> prevent ticking when the original copper pipes expanded/contracted.
Emmm, if you want to address the problem of "ticking" then that
is a different issue (IMHO) to whether the pipes should be
copper or plastic.
If something "ticks" it is often because one item rubs against a
joist or something as it expands/contracts. Go through this
cycle often enough and I guess that it could wear the pipe,
whatever the pipe material.
My father always maintained that you could tell whether a true
plumber had installed a piece of pipe by unscrewing one of
the compression joints (having turned off the water first of
course) and seeing if one end has been forced down to
complete the joint! If they both stayed put (in absence of
pipe clips) your chance that it was a *real* plumber were
increased.
All due respect to other DIY plumbers of course...
Mungo
--
Mungo Henning - it's a daft name but it goes with the face...
mungoh@itacs.strath.ac.uk.http://www.itacs.strath.ac.uk/
(since everyone else does it) I speak for me, not my employer.
chris melluish
> The only worry I have is the new fittings. I have had one fail and my
> Plumber (yes I do have one for possible emergencies in my holiday flats
> when I'm away) - he used to purchase £ 20,000 p.a. of HEP20 each year
> doing virtually all his jobs in plastic.
>
> He now refuses to use the new fittings (based on problems he has had)
> with the plastic grab rings and now uses HEP20 pipe and fittings made by
> Polypipe (called polytight). These are almost identical to old HEP20
> with stainless steel grab rings.
>
> I'm not sure if there is a problem with the new fittings because I
> didn't sort out the leak (in Plymouth whilst I was in jersey at the
> time). It seems that the rumour is that the new fittings can slip off
> copper pipe.
I am planning to extend my central heating with a mixture of Hep2O
and copper, and this post has me a bit worried.
Hepworth say in their literature that Hep2O pipe can be used in
normal compression fittings, and was wondering if this would
be a better alternative then copper into Hep2O fittings.
Do any of the sheds sell these polytight fittings, or would I need to
go to a specialist shop?
--
Chris Melluish
Jim Hatfield
<mun...@itacs.strath.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>
>Jim Hatfield wrote:
>
>> Just replaced some pipes under my bedroom floor with plastic, to
>> prevent ticking when the original copper pipes expanded/contracted.
>
>Emmm, if you want to address the problem of "ticking" then that
>is a different issue (IMHO) to whether the pipes should be
>copper or plastic.
>If something "ticks" it is often because one item rubs against a
>joist or something as it expands/contracts. Go through this
>cycle often enough and I guess that it could wear the pipe,
>whatever the pipe material.
The previous installation, not mine, was a real bodge. I had to
replace about 10 flooboards before I even started this since they were
so badly damaged. In some places there are 4 pipes running together
under one board, so the notch in the joist is so wide there's barely
room to get a brad in.
I believed the ticking was due to the pipes being laid too shallow and
being gripped a bit by the boards. My hope was that plastic pipes
would just sag between the joists when hot. There hasn't been any
ticking since the change, so whatever's happening, I've achieved what
I set out to. So come the winter, I can wake up to a warm house!
jim
Jim Hatfield
<fr...@chimney.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <375d6f42....@news.demon.co.uk>, Jim Hatfield
><j...@bedlam.demon.co.uk> writes
>You do have to be a little careful here. The poster below gleefuly
>states "no leaks so far!" But the problem with the wrong sort of pipe
>is that it will leak oxygen inwards rather than water out. This means
>that 1. you get air into the system because it can bubble in the boiler
>and 2. the oxygen leads to corrosion of the metal parts of your system.
>Make sure that plastic pipe you use on your heating system has a oxygen
>difusion barrier in it.
With the QualPex pipe it's quite easy to tell, looking at the end of
the pipe there's black ring in the middle of the white plastic.
jim
Helen Norris
> I am planning to extend my central heating with a mixture of Hep2O
> and copper, and this post has me a bit worried.
> Hepworth say in their literature that Hep2O pipe can be used in
> normal compression fittings, and was wondering if this would
> be a better alternative then copper into Hep2O fittings.
> Chris Melluish
I used Hep2O for all of my central heating, except for the first
metre or so from the boiler which are copper. I used normal
compression fittings to connect the cu to Hep2O.
Never had any problems with the Hep2O in 5 years and it is a *doddle*
to use, especially the 10mm microbore.
Alan Norris
Chris French
>
>The only worry I have is the new fittings. I have had one fail and my
>Plumber
>I'm not sure if there is a problem with the new fittings because I
>didn't sort out the leak (in Plymouth whilst I was in jersey at the
>time). It seems that the rumour is that the new fittings can slip off
>copper pipe.
>
I have a mixture of old and new 'bitetite' fittings I haven't as yet had
any problems with them - including hep2O to copper joints.
--
Chris French, Leeds
Chris French
<ch...@melluish.demon.co.uk> writes
> It seems that the rumour is that the new fittings can slip off
> > copper pipe.
>
>I am planning to extend my central heating with a mixture of Hep2O
>and copper, and this post has me a bit worried.
>
>Hepworth say in their literature that Hep2O pipe can be used in
>normal compression fittings, and was wondering if this would
>be a better alternative then copper into Hep2O fittings.
>
I have had problems with hep20/compression joints popping on occasions -
though I'm not sure why, mostly they are ok.
I wonder if there has been a batch of duff fittings around? It seems
unlikely that if there was a problem during development of this sort it
wouldn't have been picked up.
Hepworths (mostly) lurker :-) any comments ?
>Do any of the sheds sell these polytight fittings, or would I need to
>go to a specialist shop?
Never seen them, they tend to sell Speedfit in the sheds, try a PM.
Anyway anywhere except B&Q Warehouse would probably be more expensive.
Ring around as they tend to stock just one kind of plastic pipe/fittings
IME
--
Chris French, Leeds
Chris French
<j...@bedlam.demon.co.uk> writes
easier it says so on the side of the pipe.
Though 'no barrier' Hep2O is avaiable, I have only ever been offered
barrier pipe, even without asking for it.
--
Chris French, Leeds
Chris French
<news...@spennithorne.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>I have had problems with hep20/compression joints popping on occasions -
>though I'm not sure why, mostly they are ok.
>
>I wonder if there has been a batch of duff fittings around? It seems
>unlikely that if there was a problem during development of this sort it
>wouldn't have been picked up.
>
The first bit refers to standard compression fittings.
The second bit refers to the new Hep2O fittings.
--
Chris French, Leeds
Wookey
<news...@spennithorne.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 21:02:11 +0100, Frank Duffy
>><fr...@chimney.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>Make sure that plastic pipe you use on your heating system has a oxygen
>>>difusion barrier in it.
>Though 'no barrier' Hep2O is avaiable, I have only ever been offered
>barrier pipe, even without asking for it.
Is the oxygen diffusion thing really an issue? My reading of the tech
specs suggested that it wasn't. My CH is all done in Hep20 (about 4
years ago). Very quick and easy, no problems, thoroughly
recommended. Nearly all the pipe is non-barrier. Maybe you can ignore
the barrier thing if you have some inhibitor in the system (I do)?
--
Wookey
Newmarket Rd, Cambridge,UK http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/
piers_t...@my-deja.com
> Is the oxygen diffusion thing really an issue? My reading of the tech
> specs suggested that it wasn't. My CH is all done in Hep20 (about 4
> years ago). Very quick and easy, no problems, thoroughly
> recommended. Nearly all the pipe is non-barrier. Maybe you can ignore
> the barrier thing if you have some inhibitor in the system (I do)?
The Hepworths technical info remarks that British Gas will not cover
installations which use non-barrier pipe. Whether or not this is an
issue obviously depends on whether or not you want a British Gas
service contract.
Piers
douglas dwyer
>I've had similar problems with pin-holes in copper by the way
>(aggressive well water in Jersey) so HEP20 is more reliable in my
>experience.
allowing non copper inclusions and there are grades dependent on the
number of inclusions it is apparently these inclusions that depart
leaving a hole.
Just doing a conversion with HEP2o with the connectors as supplied now I
am a bit worried .
--
douglas dwyer