upvc push fit union just failed for no apparent reason!

[orion....@virgin.net]

Anyone else had this problem with push fit?
In my case the 15mm pipe (cold water feed to washing machine) was also pvc. The pipe just popped out of the union for no reason I can find and spewed several gallons of water over the floor before I noticed and was able to shut off the supply. Scary! Thank god I was here when it happened!
On examination, the pipe seems to have been cut square and whoever did the joint used a steel insert as one should to reinforce the plastic pipe at the insertion point to the joiner. It was fully screwed home. But strangely I couldn't see any serrations around the pipe where you would expect the teeth of the push fitting's ring to bite in. The joint has been in place since at least I bought this house and was not leaking prior to its disastrous failure. Any ideas?
I'm just wondering if push-fit requires a certain minimum water pressure to function properly?

TIA

[Brian Gaff]

Maybe the material has become less pliable with age and has just given up,
but if you see no serrations you might have been on borrowed time for some
time.. grin.

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
<orion....@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:d5db04ce-e7e7-492f...@googlegroups.com...

[The Medway Handyman]

On 04/12/2012 17:31, orion....@virgin.net wrote:
> Anyone else had this problem with push fit? In my case the 15mm pipe
> (cold water feed to washing machine) was also pvc. The pipe just
> popped out of the union for no reason I can find and spewed several
> gallons of water over the floor before I noticed and was able to shut
> off the supply. Scary! Thank god I was here when it happened! On
> examination, the pipe seems to have been cut square and whoever did
> the joint used a steel insert as one should to reinforce the plastic
> pipe at the insertion point to the joiner.

I thought it was a plastic insert for push fit & the steel were for
compression fittings?
>


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

[polygonum]

I think it depends on the manufacturer - Hep2O (well, in the version I
used, there has been some redesign since) had stainless steel inserts.

--
Rod

[Andy Champ]

On 04/12/2012 17:31, orion....@virgin.net wrote:

> Anyone else had this problem with push fit?

Had one pop off the feed into the cistern into my son's flat. Didn't
get a chance to examine it - I'm 3 hours away - but it had only just
been fitted.

Andy

[orion....@virgin.net]

On Tuesday, 4 December 2012 19:57:01 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Maybe the material has become less pliable with age and has just given up,
>
> but if you see no serrations you might have been on borrowed time for some
>
> time.. grin.
>

Nope. The internals looked almost like new. But I reckon a lot of the plumbing here was installed by a wanker, so I'm removing all the push-fits and replacing them with soldered joints. I have never trusted push-fit anyway.

[orion....@virgin.net]

On Tuesday, 4 December 2012 21:22:51 UTC+1, The Medway Handyman wrote:

>
>
> I thought it was a plastic insert for push fit & the steel were for
>
> compression fittings?
>

I don't see that making the slightest bit of difference. The inserts are only there to provide rigidity, so so long as they provide something robust to prevent the plastic pipe from getting squished it doesn't matter what they're made of so far as I can see...

[Dave Liquorice]

On Tue, 4 Dec 2012 14:17:44 -0800 (PST), orion....@virgin.net wrote:

>> I thought it was a plastic insert for push fit & the steel were for
>> compression fittings?
>
> I don't see that making the slightest bit of difference. The inserts
> are only there to provide rigidity, so so long as they provide
> something robust to prevent the plastic pipe from getting squished it
> doesn't matter what they're made of so far as I can see...

Except that plastic ones are thicker and restrict the flow (even more).

--
Cheers
Dave.

[harry]

If water pressure is high, solenoid valves can shut off with quite a
bang. The"spike" in water pressure can be ten times higher than
normal.
The purpose of the filter in them (as well as filtering) is to reduce
water velocity and hence the pressure "spike".

I don't trust these push fit things anyway. Only a wanker would use
them. Needless expense.

I also think that at some point in the future they are almost bound to
leak.

[Jim K]

On Dec 4, 5:31 pm, orion.osi...@virgin.net wrote:

maybe "the wanker" responsible took apart the fitting and then
reassembled it with the barbed/teethy bit the wrong way round - hence
no grip and no marks form teeth?

Jim K

[Man at B&Q]

That makes you well qualified, then.

MBQ

[NewsOnline]

<orion....@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:d5db04ce-e7e7-492f...@googlegroups.com...

I had this happen with a 22mm fitting at a house refurb. When we looked at
it, you could see where the grab ring had worked its way down the insertion
depth and finally let go. Everything had been done to the book - square cut
ends with Rothenberger cutter, correct plastic inserts fitted and yet it
still failed - the fitting hadn't been taken apart, the 'O' ring, spacer
and grab ring were all there and in the correct order. Consequently, I got
the guys to remove the plastic pipework and fittings (all from a well known
DIY shed) in the bathroom and replace it with copper as they had that to
hand and could get on with the job. As you can imagine it caused a real
mess - especially as the guys ignored my request that they turn off the
water when they left the empty house. A few weeks later I heard of a similar
problem someone else ( a pro plumber) had run into - he hadn't wanted to use
the plastic pipe, but the client had insisted. In our case we assumed that
sub-standard fitting or pipe combined with an increase in water pressure
overnight caused the problem.

That said, in the past we've used Hep2o for all kinds of applications
including temporary kitchens in marquees which were installed then broken
down, stored and re-used the next year. That went on for at least 10 years
to my knowledge - we've never had so much as a drip much less have a fitting
fail completely. Hepworth is the only brand I'd use - simply because of my
good experience with their system. FWIW, I'd stay away from DIY shed kit -
go for a brand that pros use. Still don't think you can beat copper.

[ARW]

You can with a hammer:-)

And here is an extract from an old email from a customer of mine who has
Acorn plumbing (that has never had a drip)

"Without any authority I think the first waste pipes may have been made by a
Dutch firm called Wavin who were owned by Shell (who supplied the
polypropylene, and later ABS powder). Wavin set up a factory in Wiltshire
and sold waste products under the Osma trademark, and still do.

This was followed by PVC rainwater gutter and fittings, at which point Kevin
McDonald set up Bartol Plastics in Edlington in competition, later bought
out by the Hepworth Iron Company of Hazlehead, makers of clay pipes.
McDonald then left, set up McDee Plastics making skateboards etc, and then
created Polypipe, in direct competition with Bartol, Wavin, Hunter, Paragon,
and others.

Polybutylene pipe for drinking water was introduced by Bartol Plastics
around 1982 under the tradename Acorn, to complement the fittings introduced
in c1979; Acorn later was renamed Hep2o.

Hepworth Building Products was bought out by Wavin in 2005, just as I left."


Well I was in Edlington this week and it now says Wavin and not Hepworth on
the signs outside the factory. It's been a while since I drove past the
factory.
--
Adam

[paulbr...@gmail.com]