Do phosphate water softeners work (i.e., "Combi-Mate")
Al D
Living in a hard-water area, I'm finding that I have to replace the
secondary heat exchanger on my Brittony 80 combi boiler about once
every 12 months. At £130 a pop, that hurts. I've tried an electronc
water softener and a magnetic one. Neither seem to help much. I'm
wondering about buying a phosphate one such as a "Combi-Mate". They
cost about £100. I'm wondering if this would be a good investment - or
just more money down the drain.
Thank you.
Al D
= = = = = = = = = = = = = =
to email me, first remove
the three-letter animal from my email address.
Christian McArdle
> such as a "Combi-Mate". They cost about £100.
Phosphate dosing systems do not soften water. However, they should reduce or
eliminate limescale buildup on your combi, saving you from your yearly
exchanger swap out. It won't give all the benefits of an ion-exchange
softener, which really does soften the water, though.
Electronic and magnetic conditioners are complete snake oil. No credible
person in the history of the universe has been able to find any effect from
using them on a domestic water system.
Christian.
Doctor Drivel
"Al D" <wmth2...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:438600b6...@news.individual.net...
>
> Living in a hard-water area, I'm finding that I have to replace the
> secondary heat exchanger on my Brittony 80 combi boiler about once
> every 12 months. At £130 a pop, that hurts. I've tried an electronc
> water softener and a magnetic one. Neither seem to help much. I'm
> wondering about buying a phosphate one such as a "Combi-Mate". They
> cost about £100. I'm wondering if this would be a good investment - or
> just more money down the drain.
They do work and cost around £50 in Homebase, B&Q. The only problems that
the on the body where the venturi is, the venturi holes can block up. When
changing a canister use a paper clip to clear out.
Scale should block a heat ex but not pop it. Get on to Chaffataeux.
Al D
<cmcar...@nospam.yahooxxxx.co.uk> wrote:
>>Phosphate dosing systems do not soften water. However, they should reduce or
>>eliminate limescale buildup on your combi, saving you from your yearly
>>exchanger swap out. It won't give all the benefits of an ion-exchange
>>softener, which really does soften the water, though.
Thank you for the info. So are these ion-exchange softeners the most
cost-effective way to prevent heat-exchanger blockages from limescale?
Can anyone recommend one that is affordable and effective? Are they
easy to fit?
>>Electronic and magnetic conditioners are complete snake oil. No credible
>>person in the history of the universe has been able to find any effect from
>>using them on a domestic water system.
That's certainly my impression too.
Al D
Thank you for that. Do they actually prevent limescale, or just reduce
it a bit? If I am now getting secondary-heat-exchanger blockages every
12 months, can you guesstimate how often I would have to change the
component after fitting one of these ghizmos?
>>Scale should block a heat ex but not pop it.
"pop" was a figure of speech. Please replace with "time" or "go" to
get my meaning. I must learn to write in more formal English. ;-)
Thanks again,
Doctor Drivel
"Christian McArdle" <cmcar...@nospam.yahooxxxx.co.uk> wrote in message
news:438605f3$0$23977$4d4e...@read.news.uk.uu.net...
> > Neither seem to help much. I'm wondering about buying a phosphate one
> > such as a "Combi-Mate". They cost about £100.
>
> Phosphate dosing systems do not soften water. However, they should reduce
or
> eliminate limescale buildup on your combi, saving you from your yearly
> exchanger swap out. It won't give all the benefits of an ion-exchange
> softener, which really does soften the water, though.
>
> Electronic and magnetic conditioners are complete snake oil.
But mine works
> No credible
> person in the history of the universe has been able to find any effect
from
> using them on a domestic water system.
Mine works and there is an avalanche of evidence to prove they do. Even DPS
recommend them.
Doctor Drivel
> On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 19:15:57 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
> <Min...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >>
> >>"Al D" <wmth2...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >>news:438600b6...@news.individual.net...
> >>>
> >>> Living in a hard-water area, I'm finding that I have to replace the
> >>> secondary heat exchanger on my Brittony 80 combi boiler about once
> >>> every 12 months. At £130 a pop, that hurts. I've tried an electronc
> >>> water softener and a magnetic one. Neither seem to help much. I'm
> >>> wondering about buying a phosphate one such as a "Combi-Mate". They
> >>> cost about £100. I'm wondering if this would be a good investment - or
> >>> just more money down the drain.
> >>
> >>They do work and cost around £50 in Homebase, B&Q. The only problems
that
> >>the on the body where the venturi is, the venturi holes can block up.
When
> >>changing a canister use a paper clip to clear out.
>
> Thank you for that. Do they actually prevent limescale, or just reduce
> it a bit?
Reduce it a lot, or in some cases eliminate it.
> If I am now getting secondary-heat-exchanger blockages every
> 12 months, can you guesstimate how often I would have to change the
> component after fitting one of these ghizmos?
10 years.
> >>Scale should block a heat ex but not pop it.
>
> "pop" was a figure of speech. Please replace with "time" or "go" to
> get my meaning. I must learn to write in more formal English. ;-)
You cab descale a heat ex.
Andy Hall
>On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 18:26:59 -0000, "Christian McArdle"
><cmcar...@nospam.yahooxxxx.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>Phosphate dosing systems do not soften water. However, they should reduce or
>>>eliminate limescale buildup on your combi, saving you from your yearly
>>>exchanger swap out. It won't give all the benefits of an ion-exchange
>>>softener, which really does soften the water, though.
>
>Thank you for the info. So are these ion-exchange softeners the most
>cost-effective way to prevent heat-exchanger blockages from limescale?
>Can anyone recommend one that is affordable and effective? Are they
>easy to fit?
Either the phosphate doser or ion-exchange softener will deal with the
scaling issue, and if you are worried only about the scaling, then the
phosphate doser will do the job effectively.
Having softened water means that apart from the water feeling more
pleasant to the touch, it makes soaps, detergents and shampoos etc.
work much more effectively, so you use less.
To give you an illustration, I've had a softener for 20 years (same
one and still OK). In a household of 4, it gets through a bag of
salt (about £5 if you buy 10 bags) every three weeks or so. There is
more than a £5 saving in soaps, detergents and shampoos in that time.
So in effect, the capital cost is the only incremental outlay.
I have a metered model (Kinetico), although there are other makes with
metering now. These use less salt than the timer based ones because
they regenerate when a volume of water has been used.
I would look around and then ask who the manufacturers are of the ion
exchange tanks and resins and the valve. Most systems are made up
from OEM components from a small number of manufacturers with Autotrol
being one of the leading valve makes.
--
.andy
John Rumm
> wondering about buying a phosphate one such as a "Combi-Mate". They
> cost about ｣100. I'm wondering if this would be a good investment - or
> just more money down the drain.
It should do the trick. IIRC the makers of combimate (cistenmiser) also
offer a guarentee that they will meet the cost of any boiler repairs
resulting from limescale damage should they occur after the boiler has
been protected by the combimate.
Worth looking on ebay for one sometimes. I got one for about 40 quid.
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Al D
I wanted to thank you all for your invaluable input. I changed the
secondary heat exchanger and also instaled a phosphate doser from B&Q
(£41.00!). Hopefully this will save me literally hundreds over the
next few years so I just can't thank you enough. Folks like you
restore my faith in my fellow countryman! It's really good to know
there are still people around who will give free (and good) advice to
someone in need.
Al D
<Min...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>> >>They do work and cost around £50 in Homebase, B&Q. The only problems
>>that
>>> >>the on the body where the venturi is, the venturi holes can block up.
>>When
>>> >>changing a canister use a paper clip to clear out.
Thanks for the tip. I must remember to do that!
>>You can descale a heat ex.
I tried that once, but found that it was futile, without the suitable
equipment to pump the acid through over a sustained period.
BTW, is the hot water drinkable after it has been dosed with
phosphate? I understand that only a tiny amount is added.
I often used to fill my kettle from the hot water tap if the water was
hot and thus save some electricity. I'm not sure if I can still do
that.
John Rumm
>>>>>>changing a canister use a paper clip to clear out.
>
>
> Thanks for the tip. I must remember to do that!
Minor point, but combimates don't have canisters - you refill them with
silophos balls. Drivel is talking about some other device no doubt...
> BTW, is the hot water drinkable after it has been dosed with
> phosphate? I understand that only a tiny amount is added.
According to Cistermiser: yes since it is a food grade additive.
http://www.cistermiser.co.uk/pdf/q.csr.pdf
This may not be true for other similar sounding products.
When I plumbed my one in, I arranged it such that I could deliver either
treated or untreated water to the kitchen taps (controled by a pair of
valves). I was interested to see if it would also help reduce scale in
the kettle, and also if you could detect any change in taste.
The answer seems to be only a little WRT to the kettle (most of the
scale deposition in kettles seems to be precipitation as the water cools
rather than when boiling in the first place). As for taste I can't taste
any difference in the water when drunk neat (although we have a water
filter which may be altering masking the effect), I am not convinced
that there is not a small change to the taste of coffee however! (but it
is very subtle if there at all and it may just be my imagination).
> I often used to fill my kettle from the hot water tap if the water was
> hot and thus save some electricity. I'm not sure if I can still do
> that.
You could.
Doctor Drivel
"John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
news:43875ca3$0$63053$ed2e...@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
> Al D wrote:
>
> >>>>>>changing a canister use a paper clip to clear out.
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the tip. I must remember to do that!
>
> Minor point, but combimates don't have canisters - you refill them with
> silophos balls.
Which is in a canister.
> > BTW, is the hot water drinkable after it has been dosed with
> > phosphate? I understand that only a tiny amount is added.
>
> According to Cistermiser: yes since it is a food grade additive.
>
> http://www.cistermiser.co.uk/pdf/q.csr.pdf
People with heart complaints and young babies - NO.
> This may not be true for other similar sounding products.
Check the canister.
Al D
<Min...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>Check the canister.
Thanks, yes; My B&Q offering says "food grade" so I guess that means
it's safe to drink...
AL D
Doctor Drivel
> On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 19:09:49 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
> <Min...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
> >>Check the canister.
>
> Thanks, yes; My B&Q offering says "food grade" so I guess that means
> it's safe to drink...
Who makes it? Most are made by Permutit. Charge the canister every year.
John Rumm
>>Minor point, but combimates don't have canisters - you refill them with
>>silophos balls.
>
>
> Which is in a canister.
No, they come lose in a bag with the new unit. You buy refils in a
bottle. To refil you pour the balls into the dome of the combimate. No
canister at any stage of the process.
>>According to Cistermiser: yes since it is a food grade additive.
>>
>>http://www.cistermiser.co.uk/pdf/q.csr.pdf
>
>
> People with heart complaints and young babies - NO.
Why? ISTM you are thinking of softening systems that raise the sodium
content of the water. That is not what we are discussing here.
Doctor Drivel
"John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
> Doctor Drivel wrote:
>
> >>Minor point, but combimates don't have canisters - you refill them with
> >>silophos balls.
> >
> >
> > Which is in a canister.
>
> No, they come lose in a bag with the new unit. You buy refils in a
> bottle. To refil you pour the balls into the dome of the combimate. No
> canister at any stage of the process.
>
> >>According to Cistermiser: yes since it is a food grade additive.
> >>
> >>http://www.cistermiser.co.uk/pdf/q.csr.pdf
> >
> >
> > People with heart complaints and young babies - NO.
>
> Why? ISTM you are thinking of softening systems that raise the sodium
> content of the water. That is not what we are discussing here.
You are confused.
John Rumm
>>>People with heart complaints and young babies - NO.
> You are confused.
I am, so please explain why you believe cardiac patients with young
children should not fit a combimate.
Arthur
Have you tried Scalewatcher? Unlike cheap competition it uses patented
audio frequency and really works for me.
I live in a hard water area and have been blighted by all the problems
that this brings with it. However, after only 6 weeks of installing
Scalewatcher my water supply is really soft, the kettle no longer furs
up and my shower appears to have descaled itself.
Scalewatcher website: www.scalewatcher.co.uk
EricP
wrote:
And you talk to the fairies at the bottom of your garden.
Tony Hogarty
Yep through his ar*e
--
Regards
Tony
(Take out the garbage to reply)
Grimly Curmudgeon
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Arthur" <sa...@analprobe.com>
saying something like:
>
>Have you tried Mugfinder? Just like cheap crap it uses unpatented
>anal probing and really works for me.
>
>I live in a hard dick area and have been blighted by all the problems
>that this brings with it. However, after only 6 weeks of anal fisting
>my knob is really soft, the cat no longer spits furballs
>up and my desire for golden showers appears to have re-asserted itself.
>
>Willywatcher website: www.fuckoffspammer.co.uk
Really? How nice for you.
--
Dave
raden
Arthur <sa...@highlandstore.com> writes
>
>Have you tried Scalewatcher? Unlike cheap competition it uses patented
>audio frequency and really works for me.
>
>I live in a hard water area and have been blighted by all the problems
>that this brings with it. However, after only 6 weeks of installing
>Scalewatcher my water supply is really soft,
You can cure that with viagra
--
geoff
Doctor Drivel
"Grimly Curmudgeon" <grimlycurmud...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:of9ep1536vvjq31e6...@4ax.com...
> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
> drugs began to take hold. I remember "Arthur" <sa...@analprobe.com>
> saying something like:
Spammer? The Highland store sells kilts!!!! Scalewatcher has some
excellent feedback.
Brian Reed
My experience is that no only do they stop limescale buildup, they slowly
remove what was in kettles etc. My plumber recently fitted a polyphos device
for whole-house treatment & the results were amazing
--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/uk-diy/do-phosphate-water-softeners-work-i-e-combi-mate-214840-.htm
The Natural Philosopher
> replying to Al D, Brian Reed wrote:
> My experience is that no only do they stop limescale buildup, they slowly
> remove what was in kettles etc. My plumber recently fitted a polyphos
> device
> for whole-house treatment & the results were amazing
>
limescale.
--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "
Alan Sokal
dennis@home
> On 26/01/17 12:44, Brian Reed wrote:
>> replying to Al D, Brian Reed wrote:
>> My experience is that no only do they stop limescale buildup, they slowly
>> remove what was in kettles etc. My plumber recently fitted a polyphos
>> device
>> for whole-house treatment & the results were amazing
>>
> well they are what is in most detergents, so yes, they do work to stop
> limescale.
>
>
>
cause algae blooms so there are restrictions on them now.
Brian Gaff
I thought we were trying to stop putting phosphates down into the drains as
its a bit like a fertiliser when it combines with other stuff.
Brian
--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:o6ctg1$ih6$1...@news.albasani.net...