OT - Carpet underlay

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Invisible Man

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Sep 15, 2009, 6:18:50 PM9/15/09
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We are going to replace the carpet in our hall stairs and landing which
are a fairly large area.

Existing carpet is hessian? backed on Uniroyal Tredaire Oben underlay
which to my untutored eyes looks to be in good condition.

I suspect most of the carpet retailers make most of their profits out of
underlay. Anyone knowledgeable about the need to replace underlay?

TIA for any advice.

Dave Plowman (News)

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Sep 15, 2009, 7:17:21 PM9/15/09
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In article <h8p3sd$34h$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,

> TIA for any advice.

My experience with decent carpets is that Tredair type underlay expires
long before the carpet is worn out. Especially in heavily used areas.
I've just re-done the hall and stairs with Cloud 9 (same carpet) and it
seems great. Only time will tell if it lasts.

--
*Tell me to 'stuff it' - I'm a taxidermist.

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

er...@blueyonder.co.uk

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Sep 15, 2009, 7:36:51 PM9/15/09
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Underlay usually reveals its condition on examination.

The foam stuff turns to dust. Tredaire has a very long life. If it
looks and feels ok, go with whatever gut feeling you have.

Harry

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Sep 16, 2009, 2:11:55 AM9/16/09
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On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 00:17:21 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <h8p3sd$34h$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Invisible Man <invi...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> We are going to replace the carpet in our hall stairs and landing which
>> are a fairly large area.
>
>> Existing carpet is hessian? backed on Uniroyal Tredaire Oben underlay
>> which to my untutored eyes looks to be in good condition.
>
>> I suspect most of the carpet retailers make most of their profits out of
>> underlay. Anyone knowledgeable about the need to replace underlay?
>
>> TIA for any advice.
>
>My experience with decent carpets is that Tredair type underlay expires
>long before the carpet is worn out. Especially in heavily used areas.
>I've just re-done the hall and stairs with Cloud 9 (same carpet) and it
>seems great. Only time will tell if it lasts.
>

We just used Blue Heaven, same makers as Cloud 9 but with a "silent"
backing. Tredair products are good for lining the rabbit's hutch.

Colin Wilson

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Sep 16, 2009, 3:06:54 AM9/16/09
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> My experience with decent carpets is that Tredair type underlay expires
> long before the carpet is worn out. Especially in heavily used areas.
> I've just re-done the hall and stairs with Cloud 9 (same carpet) and it
> seems great. Only time will tell if it lasts.

I was going to go with Cloud 9, but the vendors' site also had a
"what's best" page which suggests Tredaire Dreamwalk 11mm - it's a
foam just like Cloud 9, and sod all price difference, so we went with
that.

It seems pretty good so far (only laid a few weeks ago) - everyone
who's been to the house since has commented on how nice it is (i've
forgotten what carpet felt like so i'm not the best judge atm).

TheScullster

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Sep 16, 2009, 4:01:48 AM9/16/09
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"Colin Wilson" wrote

>
> I was going to go with Cloud 9, but the vendors' site also had a
> "what's best" page which suggests Tredaire Dreamwalk 11mm - it's a
> foam just like Cloud 9, and sod all price difference, so we went with
> that.
>
> It seems pretty good so far (only laid a few weeks ago) - everyone
> who's been to the house since has commented on how nice it is (i've
> forgotten what carpet felt like so i'm not the best judge atm).

We had some 11mm Cloud 9 in the dining room, but it was just too thick and
spongy.
Furniture disappears in the stuff, causes horrendous indentations and it
feels just too much like walking across a matress!

Phil


Dave Plowman (News)

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Sep 16, 2009, 4:23:31 AM9/16/09
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In article <FLmdnSJ2xa7iBi3X...@eclipse.net.uk>,

TheScullster <ph...@dropthespam.com> wrote:
> We had some 11mm Cloud 9 in the dining room, but it was just too thick
> and spongy. Furniture disappears in the stuff, causes horrendous
> indentations and it feels just too much like walking across a matress!

I can see that. But it's great on the stairs.

--
*Honk if you love peace and quiet*

Dave Liquorice

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Sep 16, 2009, 10:44:23 AM9/16/09
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On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:36:51 GMT, er...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:

> Underlay usually reveals its condition on examination.

Aye. I'd replace any rubber based underlay when replacing carpet.
It's cheap enough, a whole roll of underlay is just a couple of
square meters of decent carpet. And the life of the carpet is highly
dependant on the underlay.

> The foam stuff turns to dust.

By "foam stuff" I take it you mean the rubber based foam/crumb
underlays rather than the more recent polyurethane foam based
underlays.

The rubber based things turn to dust in 10 years or less, particulary
in areas carrying any sort of traffic. Like halls and stairs.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Liquorice

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Sep 16, 2009, 10:47:12 AM9/16/09
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On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:01:48 +0100, TheScullster wrote:

> We had some 11mm Cloud 9 in the dining room, but it was just too thick
> and spongy. Furniture disappears in the stuff, causes horrendous
> indentations and it feels just too much like walking across a matress!

11mm is to thick for a living/dining/used room, it's intended for
bedrooms and the like. 9mm would have been better or maybe as thin as
7mm but it does depend on the carpet as well.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Colin Wilson

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Sep 16, 2009, 5:18:49 PM9/16/09
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> > We had some 11mm Cloud 9 in the dining room, but it was just too thick
> > and spongy. Furniture disappears in the stuff, causes horrendous
> > indentations and it feels just too much like walking across a matress!

Yeah, kinda know what you mean there...

> 11mm is to thick for a living/dining/used room, it's intended for
> bedrooms and the like. 9mm would have been better or maybe as thin as
> 7mm but it does depend on the carpet as well.

Ours is only going to be for the upstairs (2 bedrooms, stairs and
landing)

js.b1

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Sep 16, 2009, 5:54:58 PM9/16/09
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Other benefits...
Tog rating - foam stuff tends to have quite a high figure which can
help comfort on uninsulated floors (concrete or wood variety).

Floorboard gaps - ripper/crumb rubber disintegrate quickly, foam might
be more tolerant.

Door clearance - 11mm will expose any doors that need the bottom
trimming, so back off any suspect hinge screws in advance :-)


The bounciness soon fades, it just feels "softer on joints" after a
few weeks. Furniture does wobble on 11mm, which might make things
irritating if say a desk or table with touch sensitive equipment on it
(you'll be poking and fighting the underlay).

Dave Liquorice

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Sep 18, 2009, 10:03:42 AM9/18/09
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On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 22:18:49 +0100, Colin Wilson wrote:

> Ours is only going to be for the upstairs (2 bedrooms, stairs and
> landing)

Think I'd go for the 11mm in the bedrooms, nice and comfy on your
tootsies and maybe the landing. But the stairs I'd use something
thinner, they take quite a pounding and all the movement that a thick
underlay will allow in the carpet won't do it any good IMHO.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Plowman (News)

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Sep 18, 2009, 11:45:46 AM9/18/09
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In article <nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@srv1.howhill.co.uk>,

Dave Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote:
> Think I'd go for the 11mm in the bedrooms, nice and comfy on your
> tootsies and maybe the landing. But the stairs I'd use something
> thinner, they take quite a pounding and all the movement that a thick
> underlay will allow in the carpet won't do it any good IMHO.

Surely the whole idea of an underlay is to allow the carpet to move
relative to the floor? But obviously on stairs they need to be tightly
fitted.

--
*Give me ambiguity or give me something else.

John

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Sep 18, 2009, 3:12:52 PM9/18/09
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"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:509cc84...@davenoise.co.uk...

My lounge carpet has been spoiled due to the underlay having too much give
and the castors of the settees have caused craters due to the carpet backing
stretching.


Dave Plowman (News)

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Sep 18, 2009, 6:06:11 PM9/18/09
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In article <VYQsm.269367$156.2...@newsfe14.ams2>,
John <Who90...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> "Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:509cc84...@davenoise.co.uk...
> > In article <nyyfbegfubjuvyypb...@srv1.howhill.co.uk>,
> > Dave Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote:
> >> Think I'd go for the 11mm in the bedrooms, nice and comfy on your
> >> tootsies and maybe the landing. But the stairs I'd use something
> >> thinner, they take quite a pounding and all the movement that a thick
> >> underlay will allow in the carpet won't do it any good IMHO.
> >
> > Surely the whole idea of an underlay is to allow the carpet to move
> > relative to the floor? But obviously on stairs they need to be tightly
> > fitted.

> My lounge carpet has been spoiled due to the underlay having too much


> give and the castors of the settees have caused craters due to the
> carpet backing stretching.

One doesn't normally have settees on the stairs. And heavy point loads
will mark some types of carpet - regardless of the underlay.

--
*Could it be that "I do " is the longest sentence? *

Dave Liquorice

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Sep 18, 2009, 6:15:52 PM9/18/09
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On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 16:45:46 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

>> But the stairs I'd use something thinner, they take quite a
pounding
>> and all the movement that a thick underlay will allow in the
carpet
>> won't do it any good IMHO.
>
> Surely the whole idea of an underlay is to allow the carpet to move
> relative to the floor?

Move a bit but not too much otherwise the movement causes the threads
to wear against each other. The major factor is the amount of
traffic, high traffic areas like hallways and stairs just need a thin
underlay to buffer the carpet from the hard floor and to allow some
relative movement. Low traffic, like a bedroom, you are more
interested in comfort and as it's low traffic can tolerate more
movement to get you the higher comfort.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Dave Plowman (News)

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Sep 19, 2009, 4:41:20 AM9/19/09
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> > Surely the whole idea of an underlay is to allow the carpet to move
> > relative to the floor?

> Move a bit but not too much otherwise the movement causes the threads
> to wear against each other. The major factor is the amount of
> traffic, high traffic areas like hallways and stairs just need a thin
> underlay to buffer the carpet from the hard floor and to allow some
> relative movement. Low traffic, like a bedroom, you are more
> interested in comfort and as it's low traffic can tolerate more
> movement to get you the higher comfort.

Fairy nuff - but of course if using gripper boards, stair carpet can be
tightened rather more than you'd do with a room.

I've just done all the stairs, hall and landings using Cloud 9 and love
the feel of it - even on the stairs.

--
*I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize *

Dave Liquorice

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Sep 19, 2009, 4:57:20 PM9/19/09
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On Sat, 19 Sep 2009 09:41:20 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> Fairy nuff - but of course if using gripper boards, stair carpet can be
> tightened rather more than you'd do with a room.

And with thick underlay will continue to stretch under the action of
the traffic...



> I've just done all the stairs, hall and landings using Cloud 9 and love
> the feel of it - even on the stairs.

Which thickness? I must say the two bedrooms I've done with 11mm
Cloud 9 are wonderful on the tootsies. I wouldn't want it that soft a
living or busy area though.

--
Cheers
Dave.

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