Postcrete - whether to mix in agrigate or not?
Neil
I use postcrete for setting in posts etc. My own feeling is that it would
be stronger if I mixed in some gravel (ballast). I've tried it and it works
fine - goes off almost as quickly, but I don't know if this is strengthening
it or not. Anybody know if this is worth doing or not.
Many thanks,
Neil
Slider
"Neil" <ser...@neilr.com> wrote in message
news:49004c8f$1...@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
The postfix stuff I have used in the past has already had gravel in it.
Rod
concrete are so massively over the top in terms of strength in this
application, there is no point.
(A while ago I posted <ha!> that I had used half a bag of quite old
postcrete and it had set like granite. Stuff in good condition is likely
to be even stronger.)
The only reason I can see to add gravel/stones/whatever would be when
trying to be a cheapskate and extending one bag to fill several holes.
--
Rod
Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
<www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>
d...@gglz.com
having problems with it cracking/failing?
Making up your own concrete in a mixer and vibrating it in situ would
probably considerably strengthen it, but I wouldn't bother unless it
was necessary.
The advice I had from the fencing company was "dig your holes as deep
as possible, and aim to have a big lump of concrete down the bottom".
Worked fine for my 2m tall fences in an extremely windswept fenland
location - still perfectly vertical several years later.
Neil
"Slider" <sli...@slide.com> wrote in message news:gdpimk$1bp$1...@aioe.org...
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Special-Mortars/Postcrete/invt/221100
I have seen other makes with gravel in them but have been told that they are
not so good as Postcrete. In fact one make (don't recall the name) I was
told by the supplier that it was rubbish in comparison. It's difficult to
be sure of all this as I haven't tried other brands myself.
It just seems to me that proper concrete has gravel in, so why doesn't this
stuff need it as well.
>
Slider
Ah, only used the postfix stuff from B&Q. Put two separate fences up using
it and have never had any problems.
Neil
"Rod" <poly...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:6mb1c6F...@mid.individual.net...
> Neil wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I use postcrete for setting in posts etc. My own feeling is that it
>> would be stronger if I mixed in some gravel (ballast). I've tried it and
>> it works fine - goes off almost as quickly, but I don't know if this is
>> strengthening it or not. Anybody know if this is worth doing or not.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> Neil
> My feeling is that all forms of postcrete and even halfway properly made
> concrete are so massively over the top in terms of strength in this
> application, there is no point.
>
> (A while ago I posted <ha!> that I had used half a bag of quite old
> postcrete and it had set like granite. Stuff in good condition is likely
> to be even stronger.)
>
> The only reason I can see to add gravel/stones/whatever would be when
> trying to be a cheapskate and extending one bag to fill several holes.
>
gravel when ordinary concrete does.
If it would make it stronger than I'd mix some in.
stuart noble
I've heard it said that 10 gravel to 1 cement is a good mix. Some
strength, but also some permeability so that water cannot get trapped
next to the timber. Also makes it easier to dig out when replacing the
post.
Rod
mark of some sort). Both worked. (Only a few holes - I don't have
'industrial' level experience!)
My feeling is that the sort without stones is a way of using up fines
from quarries/beds which are not suited to other uses for some reason.
Further, I'd hazard a guess that they have adjusted the mixture to be as
cheap as possible to make whilst retaining effectiveness. Either will
end up extremely hard and strong by the time it has fully cured.
I would not expect adding anything [1] to be helpful except, as already
stated, in allowing a bag to fill more holes. The last lot I used
expressly suggested putting broken bricks, etc. into the hole for larger
posts so that the claimed posts per bag could be achieved for any size
post and hole.
[1] I guess water is needed. :-)
BigWallop
<d...@gglz.com> wrote in message
news:1090c896-90f2-4834...@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
I'll second this. And might I add, that you should also paint the ends of
wooden posts with liberal amounts of liquid bitumen, at least up to ground
level. This helps prevent water penetration into the timber, so you posts
last years and years longer than having them stuck in the ground with no
protection.
If this PostCrete stuff is cheaper than making you own Sand Cement Ballast
Mix, then go for it. But I always a good mix of the above never lets me
down. I might give these new fangled things a try one day, if I feel brave.
:-)
dennis@home
"BigWallop" <spam....@good-spam-guard.com> wrote in message
news:06ZLk.76127$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
The stuff the OP is on about (IIRC) has a big advantage over mixing your
own..
you dig a hole, drop the post in and fill it with the mix dry.
You pour in water and it sets in about 20 mins.
By the time you have had your tea break you can fit the panels.
I have used it and it is really good if you are in a hurry.
BigWallop
"dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
news:gdpo2n$fk1$1...@news.datemas.de...
>
>
> "BigWallop" <spam....@good-spam-guard.com> wrote in message
> news:06ZLk.76127$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> >
> >
> > I'll second this. And might I add, that you should also paint the ends
of
> > wooden posts with liberal amounts of liquid bitumen, at least up to
ground
> > level. This helps prevent water penetration into the timber, so you
posts
> > last years and years longer than having them stuck in the ground with no
> > protection.
> >
> > If this PostCrete stuff is cheaper than making you own Sand Cement
Ballast
> > Mix, then go for it. But I always a good mix of the above never lets me
> > down. I might give these new fangled things a try one day, if I feel
> > brave.
> > :-)
> >
>
> The stuff the OP is on about (IIRC) has a big advantage over mixing your
> own..
> you dig a hole, drop the post in and fill it with the mix dry.
> You pour in water and it sets in about 20 mins.
> By the time you have had your tea break you can fit the panels.
> I have used it and it is really good if you are in a hurry.
>
I can see the advantages in its use, but I think the old ways are still
best. Yes, I probably should get more "with it". :-)
We still dig the holes. Set the posts to the levels we want. Support the
posts with timber struts. Fix the panels Etc. Make sure everything is the
way it should be. Then we mix our batches and pour the 'Crete in the holes.
Doing the posts individually takes forever. Isn't it best to build your
fence, then fix the posts in place at the end. Our fences, around the
several out-buildings we have had to create, are still standing after,
roughly, twenty years. The only things we've had to replace is the gate
hinges and a few padlocks.
Ah well. Each tae thir ane, as they say.
Rod
I see the question as highly dependent on numbers.
For one or two posts it is much easier and cheaper to get a bag of
postcrete. After all, by the time you have bought a bag of cement, let
alone the ballast, it has cost as much.
For a few more, it is probably considerably cheaper to mix your own.
For lots, maybe the labour of mixing, or cost of a mixer, outweighs the
extra cost? And there might be a discount on a quantity purchase.
Having materials lying around (effectively free), or going to waste
because they are surplus, are significant factors in choosing.
BigWallop
>
The end quality should also be considered, in any kind of job. If you have
the time to maintain the work after installation, then, by all means, go
with the flow. If you fit and forget, then it's always best to take the
time, and maybe spend just a little more, to do the thing properly so it
lasts.
I notice that a lot of confidence is now put into these newer products, but
do they do the job to last the rigors of time? If they are meant for the
quick DIYer to make it look pretty in a short space of time, will the job
actually last the full lifetime guarantee period?
I personally hate the quick fix mentality that has been forced into the DIY
market. A proper job, to me in any case, is one where the installation is
still there, and still looking as good as when it was installed, when I pass
by in ten or twenty years time.
A coat of paint or tighten with a spanner to keep it looking good, is all it
should need. Most DIY Stores now sell ready made mixtures of most products,
and at a much cheaper cost. I have seen half bags of sand and cement for,
literally, pennies, and small bags of ballast gravel to mix with them at a
couple of quid a bag.
I'm not the type to go back and forth to maintain things. It takes a major
disaster to destroy anything I install. So the job should be done properly,
right from the design stage, before I will tackle it. Any job can be done
with a little thought before hands-on. Most DIYers will tackle a job with
great gusto at the start, then find that a little bit of preparation would
have done the work quicker, and sometimes cheaper, if they had looked before
going ahead.
Once your fence posts are fixed, that should be them finished. If you have
to make adjustments after you have poured the ballast, then you are making
the job weaker than it could / should have been. That goes for one or many
posts. If you make fencing without fixing the posts first, any adjustments
can be sorted before the posts are fixed in their final positions.
Leveling and straightening should all be done without the posts being fixed.
Holding the posts in place with small battens of timber, or metal struts,
then fixing your filler panels, or whatever, in between, allows you to make
all the small adjustments that make the fence look great. Once everything
is in place, then you make your mix and fix your posts in their final
positions.
If you want to use PostCrete to fix the posts in their final positions, then
all good and well. But, in my opinion, don't fix the posts until you know
the fence is going to look the part, and is going to last the years you want
it to.
But that's just me. :-) Rant over. LOL
meow...@care2.com
Concrete, ie with stones, is indeed stronger than cement mortar. So
you can mix stone in no worries. Not that fence post fixing needs a
lot of strength. In fact sometimes people use ballast alone, no
cement.
NT
Ret.
Ditto!
Ret
The Medway Handyman
Not having a go here, but I wouldn't back your gut feeling against the
knowledge & experience of Lafarge/Blue Circle & Hanson Aggregates. If it
needed it, they would put it in.
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
The Medway Handyman
There are two types, one is just a fine powder, the other has aggregate.
Both seem to work, in fact I reckong the former is better.
The Medway Handyman
With Postfix or Postcrete you don't need the struts, you don't need to mix.
>
> Doing the posts individually takes forever. Isn't it best to build
> your fence, then fix the posts in place at the end. Our fences,
> around the several out-buildings we have had to create, are still
> standing after, roughly, twenty years. The only things we've had to
> replace is the gate hinges and a few padlocks.
No, its qucker! Fix first post, by the time you have carried the panel over
& had a fag its ready. Use the panel to mark next post hole etc. Its much
faster.
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
> Ah well. Each tae thir ane, as they say.
dennis@home
"The Medway Handyman" <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ZU1Mk.76319$E41....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
Two eight foot strips with holes in them at six foot + a post width screwed
to the fixed post and the next one to keep it parallel makes it even quicker
as you only need to level one way.
meow...@care2.com
<davidl...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Neil wrote:
> > Hi all,
>
> > I use postcrete for setting in posts etc. My own feeling is that it
> > would be stronger if I mixed in some gravel (ballast). I've tried it
> > and it works fine - goes off almost as quickly, but I don't know if
> > this is strengthening it or not. Anybody know if this is worth doing
> > or not.
>
> Not having a go here, but I wouldn't back your gut feeling against the
> knowledge & experience of Lafarge/Blue Circle & Hanson Aggregates. If it
> needed it, they would put it in.
Virtually any mix will set posts, so bagged ready mixed is just a
question of whats cheapest plus accelerator. Maybe they bought a huge
pile of slate dust for 50p.
NT
The Medway Handyman
Indeed. A story pole. Never thought of using it for fences. Ta!
Neil
Thanks for all the replies folks. This thread's got so long I'm not sure
where to place this conclusion, so I'm putting it here :)
Loads of good advice and different approaches here. The original question
was whether or not to add aggregate to Postcrete, and it seems obvious to me
now that if it needed it, then the manufacturers would have included it. So
I'm happy to accept that.
However the discussion on whether to use the stuff in place of the
cement/concrete mix is also interesting helps me at least make some
decisions for the future on how/when to use each. I think for myself I see
both the use of the fast-mix types have a place just as the old concrete
does, but as somebody else (lost who said it now) said it is a question of
quantity for me. If all I need to do is plane a few perhaps short posts
then the quick-mix stuff is really handy. Alternatively if I want to dig in
a line of fence posts then as BigWallop advises I think his method is best
and probably a good deal more economic.
All good stuff guys - many thanks.
Neil
mike
cheaper to mix concrete and add a dash of rapid hardener.
Bruce
>
>Postcrete is an expensive way to go if you're doing a long run. Much
>cheaper to mix concrete and add a dash of rapid hardener.
That's a valid point, however concrete is not as good at filling small
gaps. The aggregate tends to bridge them and prevent the concrete
falling into them.
Since postcrete is essentially a gap filler, the absence of aggregate
is actually a good thing. However, for almost all other applications,
the inclusion of aggregate makes for a much better job.
Dennis the Menace
>
> "Rod" <poly...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:6mbag5F...@mid.individual.net...
> no
> me
> your
> the
> the
> holes.
first, I'll keep you posted!
--
harryagain
"Dennis the Menace" <caedfaa9ed1216d60e...@example.com>
wrote in message
news:ec52b$54f61d11$cf3aab60$30...@news.flashnewsgroups.com...
Also quicker to erect.
Any form of burial leads to rot in a few years especially now the treament
on the timber is such crap. ie no arsenic/copper allowed any more.
Andrew Gabriel
Chris Hogg <m...@privacy.net> writes:
> <harry...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>>Posts last longest in the metal post spikes.
>>Also quicker to erect.
>>Any form of burial leads to rot in a few years especially now the treament
>>on the timber is such crap. ie no arsenic/copper allowed any more.
>>
> shallow, and gets very stony deeper than say 8" and with some quite
> big stones, so it's difficult to drive Metposts in and keep them
> straight. I set some fence posts in Postcrete nearly 15 years ago, and
> they're still fine. No additional aggregate, BTW, there was plenty in
> it already. Within that time, the council put up a post and rail fence
> along a roadside verge nearby, using Metposts. They disintegrated
> within a few years; we are by the sea and have a lot of salt in the
> air. If stainless or heavy galvanised Metposts were available, they
> might be OK, if they could be driven in straight.
I put some in 30 years ago, and they're still fine. The make was
Fensock which no longer exists AFAIK, and they were better quality
than the Meta make today.
--
Andrew Gabriel
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