On Wednesday, 1 March 2017 17:20:18 UTC, T i m wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Mar 2017 08:37:59 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
> <
whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <sip>
>
> >> So, are you saying the printer itself was
> >> bad or not? (Yes/No).
> >
> >It was OK for a year or so with limited use,
>
> Ok ...
Expectations exceeded the printers ability.
> > not really robust enough for student use
>
> So the wrong tool for the job then? (But is there anything that can
> resist the wrong student)?
A thump from me would sort it ;-)
> >and not really as useful has hoped.
>
> See above ... and false expectations / poor purchasing decisions.
I'm not sure why ot was brought other than somethone though the students should have access to a 3D printer in this day and age.
> >> >That's the problem with teaching for a lot of the time it is the first time
> >> >that that person will use it.
> >>
> >> Ah, so we are back to the 'workman' then? ;-)
> >
> >Or too flimsey a unit for teh eventual use it got,
>
> Yes, bad workman. I wonder if it would have been 'too flimsy for me?
No idea, part of the problem was the software we know this because w eprinted the same object using difernt software packages, pon eworked the other just kept the head racing from side to side a dozen or more times then it started printing. Something to do with the way the software rasters.
One thing we found that deleting a line you didn't want, when it came to printing it the printed 'printed' the line as in movign but didnlt feed the filiment through so it just was there's oscillating for 5 mins or so printing nothing.
> >but it had good specs for the price.
>
> Even more reason to say 'bad workman' (potentially anyway).
"good' specs I should have said sounded good.
A bit like measuring the depth of 500 sheets of A4 that you know should be 50mm .
> I don't think it really matters how much it's used (within reason and
> for a good design, even if cheap) as many of these home printers *are*
> used all day and every day. Our has often been running most of the day
> for 6 days a week and rarely suffered because of that.
Our one the belt stretched , maybe you didn't notice. Maybe what you did was easy.
One of the first problems was when we printed a 'cup/trophy' we got cracking
just like others have.
https://all3dp.com/common-3d-printing-problems-3d-printer-troubleshooting-guide/#Cracks-In-Tall-Objects
The problemm is that those that knnow least expect 'evolution' quicker.
It's like thos ethat say well we could send a 3D printer to Mars and print everything out we need, yeah sure.
That's almost as funny as Red Dwarf finding an spaceship that doesn't put crews in suspendended animation or a stasis fields which is really simple just put things in a freezer and they last much longer don't they.
But they £d printed the crew on arrival the funny thinmg ws that they got a misfeed. Now Who ahsn;t had a paper misfeed on a printer was it because the user is stupid or the printer was crap ?
> >strange that they no longer make it if it was so good,
>
> Same with many things in life these days (except the basic Nokias
> apparently). ;-)
But at least they come in nice colours.
I'm suprised no-ones printing 3D covers for iphones must be a market for them, just buy a £500 printer and you're sorted surely.
> >but these things change pretty quickly sometime you just can;t keep replacing everything and hope it all worls OK for a decade or so.
>
> I'll tell you in another 8.5 years. However, if you were talking cart
> wheels then you will probably find they have pretty much evolved to be
> as good as they can get. The whole (domestic especially) 3D printing
> market is still quite new so the market is still finding it's feet.
That's what I think but few seem to think the same.
Similar with spaceX going to the moon in 2018 with passengers.
> It's also very much a hobby for many (like me) so that and what it
> entails are part of the whole point.
Like most hobby type things.
> >After a head went and a motor and the ribbon cable needed replacing it's been religated to if you just want one colour then use this.
>
> That doesn't sound like a bad thing (multiple colours / extruders all
> add to the complexity and reduce the reliability).
It only had two to start with.
> >
> > Any idea why they have differnt models ?
>
> The same reason why there is more than one make and model of
> motorcycle, car or house I'm guessing?
Yes a few drivers think they can compete with Lewis hamlton but can't everyone afford and rid a go-cart.
> >> >but what if they are 10 students using it and you're in the queue ?
> >>
> >> Not sure what that has got to do with the user skill or machine
> >> ability.
> >
> >That explains it.
>
> To you possibly! So, a queue of people wanting to use something makes
> that something bad or the fact that they don't know how to use it or
> accidentally break it (because of that) it's a bad machine?
It's not a bad machine it was never a bad machine.
But like not all cars can do the same not all 3D printers can either.
>I'm not
> saying it's a good, the best or even suitable machine but that could
> be because it's actually a bad design or isn't used by skilled people
> (or people with the right approach).
Or that it isn't as good as the perception. I never realised that an object a couple of inches high would take 4 hours or more to print. Come back in the morning to find it's cracked. Then another the reel has snagged a little so the filiment has feed properly causing the unit to stop.
> >I've no idea who or why it was brought.
>
> Could you find out, OOI?
>
> >Two years ago it was heavily used I still have some of the poutput from it laying around various versions.
>
> Ok, so it did work reasonably well once.>
That doesn't explain the what appeared to be 80% faluire rate of what was produced that ended up in the bin.
> >> >> >The problem is as a studetn thast has never used teh software or a 3D printer do you really think it's cheaper to design you;re own pi box or any box and get it printered.
> >>
> >> Now you are changing the goalposts mate.
> >
> >What do you think it was brought for then.
>
> How do I know ... you don't even know! ;-)
It was brought for teh studetns to be able to use a 3D printer.
It was brought because you didnlt need to connect a computer to it, just slip in the SD card and press print and everything works.
> >>You are trying to drag user
> >> skill (or the lack thereof) and the potential cost of the final
> >> product into the point about how good the 3D printer is (or isn't) at
> >> doing the job for which it was designed?
> >
> >That's how yuo evaluate the usuefulness of any product it seemd OK for 2 years I'm not sur ehow long it is meant to last.
>
> Well, unless it's actually been worn out and the parts not available
> then that's possibly something else (again, part of a bad decision).
Sometimes you stop repairing yuor car and get a new one.
Most people now get someone else to repair their car.
Sometimes even chaging a headlamp bulb is impossible.
>
> >Some think you can print your own spare parts as it's a 3D printer.
>
> Erm, most of our 3D printer was printed on another 3D printer just
> like it?
That's how one of ours is advertised.
But you can;t print the motors or the cables all you can really do is print the box structure.
>We have printed all the (many) plastic parts for two more
> printers on our 3D printer. That was part of the whole 'Rep Rap' deal.
Why did you need to print the parts, didn't they last as long as you expected ?
Why did they break was it because they were cheap and crap in the first place.
We didn't buy one so we clould print spare parts for it.
Had a studetn this moring asking if he can print a 3D chassis for his robot.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00GLO5SMY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
he'd made a mess of the orginal , he's never used a 3D printer before
so I said unlikely better for you to use a bit of 3-ply which we have in stock and cutting out the holes you need as and when you need them.
I think this will be quicker than explaining how to to the inkscape or illustartor software and then printing it.
In fact while typing this I had to show the student how to use coping saw to cut a square hole out.
> >> >> That was never the point.
> >> >
> >> >It is for use or rathe rthe students they';; spend weeks at it ignoring what they should be doing.
> >>
> >> Then it sounds to me like they are using the wrong tool for the job?
> >
> >Are you saying it can't make a 3D box.
>
> Apparently yours can't? Most of the others out there can?
ours can but when it costs more to make one and longer than it takes to visit the nearest poundshop and we can't even print clear.
> >As I tell teh students DO NOT start making a box for yuor project until you have a working project, you WILL NOT get extra marks for making a fancy box.
>
> Quite right too.
But tehy read we have a 3D printer then start making plans for their box.
We had the same when we annouced we brough a laser cutter.
> >> When our daughter was on a '3D Design' course at the local college, a
> >> 3D printer would be the *exact* right tool to have at their disposal.
> >
> >But which one.
>
> 'A' (worthwhile) 3D printer ... same with any purchase like that.
Few if anyone knows what people will request to 3D print over the next couple of years.
I haven't even been provided with the labsheet for what's going to be done next week ! let alone 2 years in advance.
>
> >The new one has the water solubale plastic.
>
> Any (dual extruder) printer can use the water soluble support material
> potentially (inc ours).
Really that's one of the reasons why the £80k printer was brought.
the water soluble support material for it is £90 a KG but I know there are differnt sorts too ranging in price.
Apparenty our printer has water jets.
> >> If you are only helping these students weld or build electronic
> >> projects (that need cases) then it's the wrong tool.
> >
> >Some used it for making cogs others for making a crane type structure which would have been better if maxde with lego or mecanno certaily much quicker.
>
> But I'm not sure they would learn as much about both the production of
> mechanical components and the stresses found within them by using any
> pre made part.
They are doing an electroic engineering course, the project was more to do with writing and designing a robot arm software and hardware.
Another was to support a metal ball just below a solenoid which was meant to switch off and on enabling the ball to maintain distance X below the solenoid.
See 20+ years ago we had 4 workshop personal we now have one who retires next year, we had 7 or 8 electronics workshop staff of which we haven;t had any in the last 10 years. So previosuly such a student could go to the workshop draw what they wanted on a scrap of paper and get it 'fabricated'
Studetns with a 3D printer are just no match but some think a 3D printer can print things a lathe can do. Well they can do some BUT ONLY in platsic.
> >> Quite. However, I (or thousands of others) *do* like having the
> >> opportunity and freedom to be able to print such a thing any time we
> >> want.
> >
> >good for them but spending a grand on a 3D printer might be a waste of time.
>
> A fool and their money ...
So what have you 3D printed ?
>
> >Fine by a £70 printer but a photographer would soon find it unusable, but it'll be fine for most.
>
> Sure, but you are clouding the picture again. It's like saying there
> was no point me building a kitcar,
I'd heard they were pretty crap and dangerous.
Don't see many nowerdays I wonder why.
>(or rowing boat or kayak etc) when
> you can buy such things ready made or hire them?
One of our lectuers buily his own boat after 10 years he was almost finsihed another 3 years was the estimate but I tend to think it wass more of a way being away from the wife.
I wonder why we don;t see the mirror dingy project that was all the rage when I was young, why hasn't it been revived ?
Or build you're own drone one of our students did that, why not everyone.
you could 3D print most parts.
> >> Please just accept you are potentially using the wrong tool for the
> >> job and / or don't properly know how to use the tool in the fist
> >> place. There is probably nothing wrong with the 3D printer you have
> >> there and it's just a shame it's not in the right hands / department /
> >> management.
> >
> >Depends what use you want it to have and to put it to.
>
> *Exactly*.
The probem is once got people know what can be done with 3D printing it's on the news, the reason we;re thinking of teh £250k version is because people come to use think we can print dones heart valves and all sorts of things because we have a 3D printer. Our 3D printer can't even print to that size .
> >If yuo want to spend a few hundred or a grand to print a couple of washers any one will do.
>
> Except your one apparently! ;
It can but it's cheaper and quicker to just use what you can buy.
>
> >But most are gimmicks that won't produce the quality you want.
>
> In your expert opinion I'm guessing?
from what I:ve seen and experience of what peole expect, when we wanted a smooth shiny finsih that can;t be printed we needed to buy a chemical like acetone to get that effect the it had to be painted on by hand and teh firdst 3 versions failed because there was an exact time it had to be left on for.
<just replaced the blade in the coping saw, I've been watching them they didnt; put the blade in the saw likke I told them they just held the blade in the hand>.
> The novelty of our 3d printer didn't wear off after the fist print,
> quite the opposite in fact, especially once you realise how easy they
> are to use and what you can do with them.
yuo waste yuor time doing 3D printing rathe rthan get on with the project or course work exactly. Buy the box and learn how to drill a hole don;t spend the next 3 weeks desiging a box with a hole in it.
>
> Now, if you gave one to a bunch of gibbons ... ;-)
Yep but if you really wanted a copy of shakespeare would you choose an infinate number of giddons and typwriters or use a photocopier ?
and don't forget the sticky stustance left on a typewriter after an infinate number of gibbons have been on it.