Diluting glyphosate

[Scott]

I managed to obtain concentrated glyphosate on the Internet. The
instructions contained vast amounts of detail - pages of it - but I
was unable to find any clear statement on whether or how much it
should be diluted. I decided to dilute it one part in five.

I think I probably managed to break numerous EU Regulations. The only
measuring vessel I could find was a kitchen measuring jug. I had no
suitable gloves so I decided to pour carefully. However I got it on
my hand, which I doused with water for a bit and on the floor (tiled).
I have now washed the jug and rinsed it with boiling water. I'll
leave it in water a bit longer and replace the dish cloth. I have
also cleaned the floor. If I am no longer posting to uk.d-i-y next
week you will know why!

Anyway, does anyone know what the recommended dilution factor is? Is
there actually any better weedkiller available? I believe not.

[jim]

Scott <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> Wrote in message:

Have you googled
any of this?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

[Scott]

Sadly not. I was apprehensive that I would have to read through the
10 pages of product instructions again so I thought I would 'ask a
friend' instead. Thankfully the answer was a model of precision.

[Andy Burns]

Scott wrote:

> I managed to obtain concentrated glyphosate on the Internet. The
> instructions contained vast amounts of detail - pages of it - but I
> was unable to find any clear statement on whether or how much it
> should be diluted. I decided to dilute it one part in five.

Waaaay too strong!

Assuming you have 360g/litre glyphosate, and using it in a sprayer, I
use use 125ml to 5 litres of water i.e. one part in forty.

[Harry Bloomfield]

Scott presented the following explanation :

> I managed to obtain concentrated glyphosate on the Internet. The
> instructions contained vast amounts of detail - pages of it - but I
> was unable to find any clear statement on whether or how much it
> should be diluted. I decided to dilute it one part in five.

Was it Rosate 360?

I bought 5L of the same. As I read it, it needs to be diluted to around
40ml per litre of water for use in a spray. That is around 25:1.

It suggests if not diluted enough, then it will act too quickly and
kill the leaves off too quickly and not be drawn down into the roots to
kill those off.

At 25:1 applied 6th July and there was no noticeable effect until
around the 18th, now all of the weeds sprayed are noticeably dead.
Which is about right.

[Mark Allread]

On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 18:59:44 +0100, Scott wrote:

> I managed to obtain concentrated glyphosate on the Internet. The
> instructions contained vast amounts of detail - pages of it - but I was
> unable to find any clear statement on whether or how much it should be
> diluted.

The instructions should give a dilution rate for a knapsack sprayer. Use
those for the dilution rate and also try to apply at the recommended
coverage rate. Its worth practising first with plain water on a marked
area of dry hard surface so you can see where you have applied it to.

You'll be surprised at how far a proper mix/application will go. You
should be looking at around 25ml/litre ie 1:40 as the mix rate.
Application rate will differ according to what you are trying to kill.

[Kit Jackson]

Most concentrated glyphosate is 360g/litre although stronger is
possible. The standard dilution is 100:1. ie 10cc glyphosate concentrate
to 1 litre of water. You can use it stronger though it's not necessary
but be prepared to wait. It may be 2 to 3 weeks before you see the weeds
keeling over. It will kill most things, there's only a few plants that
are resistant to it.

[Caecilius]

On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 18:59:44 +0100, Scott

You need to know the glyphosate concentration. The stuff in garden
centres is often a much lower concentration than the stuff you can get
a farm shops or online.

360 g/l is the most common concentration for agricultural use,
although there's 480 g/l available as well. I've had a 5 litre
container of 360 g/l for about 5 years now, and it's still going
strong: a little goes a long way.

Assuming you're using 360 g/l:

The concentration depends on what you are using it on. But 100:1 is a
good starting point. That's 50 ml in 5 litres. This will kill
grasses and general weeds around the garden. It's what I generally
use.

40:1 is the next step up, which will kill most of the stubborn stuff.

For really difficult stuff, like things with waxy leaves, you can use
20:1. but I've never had to.

This is assuming you spray as recommended to cover the leaf, but no so
much that it starts to drip off.

Make sure you wait at least two weeks before deciding it hasn't
worked.

[Mark Allread]

On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 19:12:27 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

> Scott presented the following explanation :
>> I managed to obtain concentrated glyphosate on the Internet. The
>> instructions contained vast amounts of detail - pages of it - but I was
>> unable to find any clear statement on whether or how much it should be
>> diluted. I decided to dilute it one part in five.
>
> Was it Rosate 360?
>
> I bought 5L of the same. As I read it, it needs to be diluted to around
> 40ml per litre of water for use in a spray. That is around 25:1.

I think it should be t'other way round - 25ml/litre or 1:40 and then
watch the application rate.

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <sqccnclq02g0h3hh1...@4ax.com>,

Scott <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:
> I managed to obtain concentrated glyphosate on the Internet. The
> instructions contained vast amounts of detail - pages of it - but I
> was unable to find any clear statement on whether or how much it
> should be diluted. I decided to dilute it one part in five.
>
> I think I probably managed to break numerous EU Regulations. The only
> measuring vessel I could find was a kitchen measuring jug. I had no
> suitable gloves so I decided to pour carefully. However I got it on
> my hand, which I doused with water for a bit and on the floor (tiled).
> I have now washed the jug and rinsed it with boiling water. I'll
> leave it in water a bit longer and replace the dish cloth. I have
> also cleaned the floor. If I am no longer posting to uk.d-i-y next
> week you will know why!

When it was first released, the manufacturers demonstating drinking
glyphosate to show how non-toxic it was (probably well diluted as
applied to weeds, not concentrate). That actually back-fired on them,
because at the time, farmers thought that if it didn't kill you, it
couldn't possibly kill weeds, being more familiar with other much
more toxic weedkillers at the time.

Also, there are still many cases per year of people drinking it to
commit suicide, only to find it doesn't work.

Of course, you shouldn't deliberately drink it in any case, and
you should throroughly wash out any container. (I personally
wouldn't use a food container.) The weedkiller contains other
things too (usually detergents) to help it absorb into the green
parts of plants.

> Anyway, does anyone know what the recommended dilution factor is? Is
> there actually any better weedkiller available? I believe not.

You would have to qualify what you mean by 'better'. There are many
potential properties of weedkillers - which ones are you after?
Flame throwers and more fun and more instant, but not long lasting.

Mine comes as 490g/l concentrate.
For spraying, it suggests diluting this 12-18ml/1L water.

Using too concentrated causes it to kill the leaves where it makes
contact, and not get transported into the roots, so the plant just
continues growing new foliage.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[Scott]

On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 19:15:12 -0000 (UTC), and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

>In article <sqccnclq02g0h3hh1...@4ax.com>,
> Scott <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> writes:
>> I managed to obtain concentrated glyphosate on the Internet. The
>> instructions contained vast amounts of detail - pages of it - but I
>> was unable to find any clear statement on whether or how much it
>> should be diluted. I decided to dilute it one part in five.
>>
>> I think I probably managed to break numerous EU Regulations. The only
>> measuring vessel I could find was a kitchen measuring jug. I had no
>> suitable gloves so I decided to pour carefully. However I got it on
>> my hand, which I doused with water for a bit and on the floor (tiled).
>> I have now washed the jug and rinsed it with boiling water. I'll
>> leave it in water a bit longer and replace the dish cloth. I have
>> also cleaned the floor. If I am no longer posting to uk.d-i-y next
>> week you will know why!
>
>When it was first released, the manufacturers demonstating drinking
>glyphosate to show how non-toxic it was (probably well diluted as
>applied to weeds, not concentrate). That actually back-fired on them,
>because at the time, farmers thought that if it didn't kill you, it
>couldn't possibly kill weeds, being more familiar with other much
>more toxic weedkillers at the time.

Well, I can see that argument. I wouldn't be convinced about its
toxicity either.

>
>Also, there are still many cases per year of people drinking it to
>commit suicide, only to find it doesn't work.
>
>Of course, you shouldn't deliberately drink it in any case, and
>you should throroughly wash out any container. (I personally
>wouldn't use a food container.) The weedkiller contains other
>things too (usually detergents) to help it absorb into the green
>parts of plants.

I would agree. It was made of glass, not plastic and my memory of
chemistry classes is that glass if very non-absorbent.

>
>> Anyway, does anyone know what the recommended dilution factor is? Is
>> there actually any better weedkiller available? I believe not.
>
>You would have to qualify what you mean by 'better'. There are many
>potential properties of weedkillers - which ones are you after?
>Flame throwers and more fun and more instant, but not long lasting.

I would prefer something instant. I remember using sodium chlorate in
a previous garden and within two hours it looked as though the place
had been napalmed. I may be showing my age!

I do have a flamethrower which I used today as well. My understanding
is that although entertaining they are not very effective.

>
>Mine comes as 490g/l concentrate.
>For spraying, it suggests diluting this 12-18ml/1L water.
>
>Using too concentrated causes it to kill the leaves where it makes
>contact, and not get transported into the roots, so the plant just
>continues growing new foliage.

Glad I asked. I have got it spectacularly wrong. I will re-dilute
what is left I which thankfully is most of it). .

[ss]

On 24/07/2017 21:05, Scott wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 19:15:12 -0000 (UTC), and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk
> (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
>
>

Is there much difference between Rosate 360 and Rosate 360 TF or are
they the same with respect to killing weeds.

[Harry Bloomfield]

ss used his keyboard to write :

> Is there much difference between Rosate 360 and Rosate 360 TF or are they the
> same with respect to killing weeds.

Sorry, mine is the TF. The ebay sale suggested that the TF was the
same, just a later version of the 360.

[Andy Burns]

ss wrote:

> Is there much difference between Rosate 360 and Rosate 360 TF

I think the TF is "tallow free", the EU was making noise about banning
glyphosate, or the combination of glyphosate with a tallow based
adjuvant ...

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethoxylated_tallow_amine>

[Old Codger]

On 24/07/2017 18:59, Scott wrote:
>
> Anyway, does anyone know what the recommended dilution factor is? Is
> there actually any better weedkiller available? I believe not.

I use roundup 480 g/l in a sprayer and dilute to the recommendations for
roundup 360 g/l. Thus I dilute 20 - 25 ml/l for perennial grasses and
50 ml/l for ivy and other waxy leafed plants. You have to wait at least
a couple of weeks to see any effect but it does work well. Although
roundup will kill most things I use SBK for nettles, brambles and woody
weeds diluted 25 ml/l in a sprayer. For tree stumps paint SBK on the
stump diluted 50/50 with water.


--
Old Codger
e-mail use reply to field

What matters in politics is not what happens, but what you can make
people believe has happened. [Janet Daley 27/8/2003]

[Rod Speed]

"pamela" <inv...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA7BD6CE...@81.171.92.183...

> As a separate question, is it necessary to shake or mix ready-diluted
> glyphosate?
>
> I bought a spray bottle of ready-to-use glyphosate but the weeds I
> treated didn't all die off even after a few weeks. I use only a
> fractio of the contents.
>
> I wonder if the results would be better if I had shaken the bottle first?

Nope, you get that result at times depending rain and
whether what you are trying to kill is growing or not.

[Martin Brown]

On 24/07/2017 18:59, Scott wrote:

> I managed to obtain concentrated glyphosate on the Internet. The
> instructions contained vast amounts of detail - pages of it - but I
> was unable to find any clear statement on whether or how much it
> should be diluted. I decided to dilute it one part in five.
>
> I think I probably managed to break numerous EU Regulations. The only
> measuring vessel I could find was a kitchen measuring jug. I had no
> suitable gloves so I decided to pour carefully. However I got it on
> my hand, which I doused with water for a bit and on the floor (tiled).
> I have now washed the jug and rinsed it with boiling water. I'll
> leave it in water a bit longer and replace the dish cloth. I have
> also cleaned the floor. If I am no longer posting to uk.d-i-y next
> week you will know why!

If you are not trolling then you are a perfect example of why industrial
strength weedkillers should not be available to the general public.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Harry Bloomfield]

Mark Allread formulated the question :

> I think it should be t'other way round - 25ml/litre or 1:40 and then
> watch the application rate.

Yes, sorry - was thinking water 25 to 1 concentrate proportion.

That seemed to be the maximum the 360 leaflet suggested. Knowing better
for next time, I will make it 1:40. I have around 2L remaining of my
original dilution to make up 5L.

[Cursitor Doom]

On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 19:03:37 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

> For the 360gm/litre stuff, I use about 25cc in a litre of water. Pretty
> much what it says on the tin. You can scale appropriately.

Same here. My 360 comes in a container with a funny arrangement that
enables you to measure off the required amount for a litre of water - and
no instructions at all. But since I got it from an agricultural merchant
they probably assumed I knew what I was doing (not entirely the case!)
BTW, it's carcinogenic.



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[harry]

JEEZE.
You don't need anything like a 5:1 concentration.
Various plant have different susceptibilities.
You need to read the instructions carefully.
Even they give stronger mixes than needed.
The important thing is that the weed is growing strongly and there is no drought.

Eg, For grass (very susceptible) a 1% mix does the job.
Stuff with waxy leaves needs more eg ivy, holly.

It takes a week before the effect becomes apparent in most cases.
Once it's dried onto the plant, rain doesn't matter.

[harry]

On Monday, 24 July 2017 18:59:48 UTC+1, Scott wrote:

Yes there are better weedkillers available for special purposes.

Eg, "Pastor" which kills everything except grass.
Used on pasture and lawns.

Also there are "pre-emergence weedkillers.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pre-emergence+weedkiller&rlz=1C1AVNG_enGB731GB753&oq=pre-emergence+weedkiller&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.12976j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[NY]

"Cursitor Doom" <cu...@notformail.com> wrote in message
news:ol7vjs$o9c$1...@dont-email.me...

> On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 19:03:37 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:
>
>> For the 360gm/litre stuff, I use about 25cc in a litre of water. Pretty
>> much what it says on the tin. You can scale appropriately.
>
> Same here. My 360 comes in a container with a funny arrangement that
> enables you to measure off the required amount for a litre of water - and
> no instructions at all. But since I got it from an agricultural merchant
> they probably assumed I knew what I was doing (not entirely the case!)
> BTW, it's carcinogenic.

Hardly surprising that it's carcinogenic, since it is designed to kill
plants/weeds by promoting excessive, uncontrolled cell division -
effectively cancer.

[Rod Speed]

"NY" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:KZudnccOxu4IE-rE...@brightview.co.uk...

Nope,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate#Mode_of_action

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <ol7vjs$o9c$1...@dont-email.me>,

Cursitor Doom <cu...@notformail.com> writes:
> On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 19:03:37 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:
>
>> For the 360gm/litre stuff, I use about 25cc in a litre of water. Pretty
>> much what it says on the tin. You can scale appropriately.
>
> Same here. My 360 comes in a container with a funny arrangement that
> enables you to measure off the required amount for a litre of water - and
> no instructions at all. But since I got it from an agricultural merchant
> they probably assumed I knew what I was doing (not entirely the case!)
> BTW, it's carcinogenic.

If you eat something recently sprayed, it's rated about the same level
of carcinogen as eating red meat, but less carcinogenic than eating
ham or bacon.

[Rod Speed]

"Tim Streater" <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote in message
news:240720172122427109%timst...@greenbee.net...
> In article <7djcnchsv57cgo3sd...@4ax.com>, Scott

> <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>I would agree. It was made of glass, not plastic and my memory of

>>chemistry classes is that glass is very non-absorbent.
>
> I'm not convinced about that. If a jar has had SWMBO marmalade in it,
> or sandwich spread, or that tasty minced pickle, then I can still smell
> that in the empty after a number of passes through the d/w.

Then you need a better dishwasher detergent.

I do my own lemon and lime marmalade, and a red hot tomato and chilli
relish and you wont be able to pick which empty jar used to have which.

[rick]

On 24/07/2017 19:46, Kit Jackson wrote:

>
> Most concentrated glyphosate is 360g/litre although stronger is
> possible. The standard dilution is 100:1. ie 10cc glyphosate concentrate
> to 1 litre of water. You can use it stronger though it's not necessary
> but be prepared to wait. It may be 2 to 3 weeks before you see the weeds
> keeling over. It will kill most things, there's only a few plants that
> are resistant to it.
>

It has no effect on 'Mares tail' so far nothing tried has any effect.
The normal comment is waxy surface prevents take up ... crush first ...
tried that - no effect.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I had problems with brambles and mares tails. In the end upping the
concentraion 10:1 and painting it on worked eventually


--
“it should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalin’s Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.”

Vaclav Klaus

[Martin Brown]

Bruising it and using a higher than recommended concentration will get
it eventually but you need a very concerted effort. Allow one tiny bit
to see the sun untreated and you are back to square one.

You can pull them up with a decent amount of root but you will need to
keep doing it for many years to take the vigour out of the deep roots.

Tactical nuclear weapons or move house are your main options...

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Thomas Prufer]

On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 11:51:04 +0100, rick <rick_hughes@_remove_btconnect.com>
wrote:

>It has no effect on 'Mares tail' so far nothing tried has any effect.
>The normal comment is waxy surface prevents take up ... crush first ...
>tried that - no effect.

There is a method where such plants are injected, with a syringe. Don't know
much about it, but google will turn that up...


Thomas prufer

[harry]

Mix the concentrate with paraffin instead of water.

[Andy Burns]

Thomas Prufer wrote:

> rick wrote:
>
>> It has no effect on 'Mares tail'
>

> There is a method where such plants are injected, with a syringe.

I've heard of that for Japanese knot weed ...

[Harry Bloomfield]

Andy Burns expressed precisely :

https://www.thespruce.com/japanese-knotweed-removal-by-herbicide-injection-2132942

[critcher]

On 24/07/2017 18:59, Scott wrote:
> I managed to obtain concentrated glyphosate on the Internet. The
> instructions contained vast amounts of detail - pages of it - but I
> was unable to find any clear statement on whether or how much it
> should be diluted. I decided to dilute it one part in five.
>
> I think I probably managed to break numerous EU Regulations. The only
> measuring vessel I could find was a kitchen measuring jug. I had no
> suitable gloves so I decided to pour carefully. However I got it on
> my hand, which I doused with water for a bit and on the floor (tiled).
> I have now washed the jug and rinsed it with boiling water. I'll
> leave it in water a bit longer and replace the dish cloth. I have
> also cleaned the floor. If I am no longer posting to uk.d-i-y next
> week you will know why!
>
> Anyway, does anyone know what the recommended dilution factor is? Is
> there actually any better weedkiller available? I believe not.
>

white vinegar seems to be a good alternative for most plants.

[Andy Burns]

Chris Hogg wrote:

> critcher wrote:
>
>> white vinegar seems to be a good alternative for most plants.
>

> Burns off the top growth, but doesn't kill deep rooted weeds.
> Glyphosate will.

I'm surprised that Monsanto, having spent years marketing ROUNDUP, would
risk devaluing the brand by substituting vinegar for glyphosate in a
product sold as ROUNDUP <tiny>AC</tiny>

<https://www.amazon.de/Roundup-AC/dp/B06XRZ1Y1T>

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <ola10v$1mo$2...@gioia.aioe.org>,

I live in an area with a major infestation, and there was an area of my
garden covered in it when I moved in. I initially dug it out, but you
can't eliminate it this way as roots go too deep. It did a good enough
job I could plant grass seed there, and for next 10 years, I pulled up
any marestail which popped up in the lawn. It's just dawned on me that
I haven't had to do that for a couple of years now.

It still comes up in gaps in a paved path, which I couldn't weed. I step
on it to break the coating which the glyphosate otherwise can't get
through, and then spray it. Half the time that works, the other half it
dies but the plant generates new shoots. Normally with glyphosate, you
should spray when the plants are growing fastest, and that's true with
marestail too. However, marestail reabsorbs many of the nutrients from
the foliage at the end of the season and stores it in the roots. So a
good second time to spray is at the end of the season. This also
transfers the glyphosate back to the roots, where it will act slowly
all winter, helping to kill the plant.

[Mark Allread]

I quite like the Amazon Uk description of it :)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Roundup-AC-2-5-Litres/dp/B071KW4ZS4

[harry]

The way to deal with it is to cover with black plastic sheet, well weighted down.
Overlap the boundaries.

Takes around twelve months but little effort involved.

[Scott]

Thanks for all the advice about glyphosate. I have probably broken
some more EU Regs re-diluting the glyphosate that I diluted 4:1
before. It should be close to the recommended concentration now.

[Adam Aglionby]

compost in situ...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mistral-Ammonium-Sulphamate-1Kg/dp/B004MMOEH2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1502281058&sr=8-3&keywords=ammonium+sulphamate

[Cursitor Doom]

On Tue, 08 Aug 2017 19:42:40 +0100, Scott wrote:

> Thanks for all the advice about glyphosate. I have probably broken some
> more EU Regs

Who cares? EU Regs don't matter any more.

[Scott]

Not me :-) The mission was completed on time and on budget!