Quality of different brands (MK, Crabtree, Volex & Marbo)
Distorted Vision
about the quality of different brands. I am very familar with MK but
have only really heard of Crabtree, Volex and Marbo. I normally buy MK
because I know they are good quality but we do not like the styling ot
the Logic Plus range. So I was wondering about the other brands. I
know they are all Electrium brands which are owned by Siemens. So I
was wondering if there was really a difference between them. The
reason I ask is that I've got a credit note from B&Q and they only
Marbo in the items I want. Otherwise I would have to go to my local
Edmumdson's or Screwfix for Crabtree or Volex.
Many thanks for your help.
meow...@care2.com
Ashley & Crabtree are the best imho. MK trail well behind. The cheap
makes I dont really know.
NT
Tim S
GET seems good - I've tried their Ultimate plastic sockets and the terminals
are decent, and the styling more sleek than MK Logic Plus.
Cheers
Tim
Distorted Vision
always thought they were the best.
Tim, can you please tell me where I can buy GET?
PeterC
Out of interest, why does MK trail - it always seems to be pushed as Good
Quality?
I've just used a Crabtree pull-switch and it's well made.
The leccies at work liked Wylex but not Volex, but that was 20 years ago so
might be different now.
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.
Steve Walker
I've got Volex (9000 range) pretty well throughout the house - free samples
:) and all have been fine for fifteen years now.
SteveW
Dave Plowman (News)
<5fe72505-54cf-46f0...@i18g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
In general anything bought from a reputable source will be ok in normal
use. So it really comes down to taste. I'm quite partial to these:-
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Wiring_Accessories_Menu_Index/Chelsea_Index/index.html
--
*Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle drugs.
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Tim S
> Many thanks. I didn't realise that Crabtree was better than MK. I've
> always thought they were the best.
>
> Tim, can you please tell me where I can buy GET?
TLC, if you have a branch.
or
http://www.rbstaronline.co.uk/acatalog/Ultimate_White_pvc_Sockets.html
Cheers
Tim
Tim S
> In general anything bought from a reputable source will be ok in normal
> use. So it really comes down to taste. I'm quite partial to these:-
Although stay away from B&Q generic plates. I tried one and the terminals
were utter rubbish - stick 3 wires in and half the time one would fall out
after tightening.
Unless Dave meant to cover this when he said "reputable source" :->>>
meow...@care2.com
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 01:00:59 -0800 (PST), meow...@care2.com wrote:
> > Distorted Vision wrote:
> >> I'm looking at buying various switches and sockets and was wondering
> >> about the quality of different brands. I am very familar with MK but
> >> have only really heard of Crabtree, Volex and Marbo. I normally buy MK
> >> because I know they are good quality but we do not like the styling ot
> >> the Logic Plus range. So I was wondering about the other brands. I
> >> know they are all Electrium brands which are owned by Siemens. So I
> >> was wondering if there was really a difference between them. The
> >> reason I ask is that I've got a credit note from B&Q and they only
> >> Marbo in the items I want. Otherwise I would have to go to my local
> >> Edmumdson's or Screwfix for Crabtree or Volex.
> >>
> >> Many thanks for your help.
> >
> > Ashley & Crabtree are the best imho. MK trail well behind. The cheap
> > makes I dont really know.
> >
> > NT
> Out of interest, why does MK trail - it always seems to be pushed as Good
> Quality?
> I've just used a Crabtree pull-switch and it's well made.
Ashley & Crabtree I've always found reliable, well thought out, very
robust, and with good attention to detail. FWIW Ashley also innovated
a much better live pin contact protection system than MK's, but MK's
sleeved pin approach won the day.
MK I've had an acceptable but significant failure rate with, and
they've realeased various ideas without sufficient testing that have
proven to be problems. 2 examples are
- sleeved pin plugs, which when we first had them consistently
overheated and melted on sustained 13A loads.
- press-in cordgrips, which failed to do one of the basic jobs of a
cordgrip, to prevent cable terminations moving about, resulting in an
increase in connection problems, which are of course a fire risk.
MK were the first large company to produce safety sockets (multi-
kontakt), but that was a long time ago, and their designs have caused
more issues than I would like.
> The leccies at work liked Wylex but not Volex, but that was 20 years ago so
> might be different now.
Wylex are famous for their old fuseboxes, which were backward on
safety levels in the 80s. Volex I have too little experience with to
say anything useful.
At the scary end of the scale, anyone remember clix plugs, or even
worse those insulation piercing plugs?
NT
PeterC
> MK I've had an acceptable but significant failure rate with, and
> they've realeased various ideas without sufficient testing that have
> proven to be problems. 2 examples are
> - sleeved pin plugs, which when we first had them consistently
> overheated and melted on sustained 13A loads.
> - press-in cordgrips, which failed to do one of the basic jobs of a
> cordgrip, to prevent cable terminations moving about, resulting in an
> increase in connection problems, which are of course a fire risk.
When molded plugs came out, Barclays in Northampton had several from MK
that were incorrectly wired (I've never liked those plugs as I can't see
inside).
Andrew Gabriel
I've always found MK to be the best (never had burnout with high
current loads, and their parts are exceptionally well designed
for ease of fitting, for which they've constantly lead in the
industry). This applies to the things they design and make, but
the parts like CU's which they buy in, I've not been so impressed
with recently (they used to be better ~20 years ago).
I've had similar comments about Crabtree quality from others with
enough experence to make valid comments (but not personal
experience as I personally tend not to like the aethetics of their
ranges for my use).
Had several Ashley and Volex fail with high current loads (they
tend to be what gets used when a builder buys cheapest), and had
GET simply wear out and fall apart rather quickly.
Of course, people can only tell you about the quality of parts
purchased some years ago, and that may not apply to something
you buy tomorrow. YMMV...
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
PeterC
What are Superswitch like on quality? I've fitted a 2-gang 2-way
switchplate nad it seeme alright. Also nicely rounded, so no sharp corners,
and quiet but perhaps a bit 'light'-feeling on operation.
Tim S
>
> and had
> GET simply wear out and fall apart rather quickly.
Hi Andrew - I'd be interested in some info on this. Was your observation
based on the odd one or a lot?
Just before I go and place a large order at TLC you see...
Cheers
Tim
Grimly Curmudgeon
drugs began to take hold. I remember Distorted Vision
<r.p...@gmail.com> saying something like:
>Many thanks for your help.
I've been using Click sockets and switches, which are in imo every bit
as good as MK and half the price.
http://www.alertelectrical.com/Wiring-Accessories-Click/Click-MODE-Range-of-Wiring-Accessories/
My local wholesaler has been pushing the Curva range to good effect.
Dave Plowman (News)
Andrew Gabriel <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I've always found MK to be the best (never had burnout with high
> current loads, and their parts are exceptionally well designed
> for ease of fitting, for which they've constantly lead in the
> industry).
If only they weren't so ugly. ;-) Their grid switch range looks like Lucas
circa '70 found on Marinas...
--
*The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up *
John
"Grimly Curmudgeon" <grimly...@REMOVEgmail.com> wrote in message
news:glcggu$eb8$1...@news.motzarella.org...
All products tend to change as manufacturing innovations influence the
design (DFM / DFA - Design for Manufacture / Assembly). Also buyers might go
to alternative sources of manufacture or change materials.
Surely a factor to consider is whether matching items will be around when
you do some changes and if the range offers all the fitments you need
(What - no Intermediate Switch)
Andrew Gabriel
Based on high failure rate in a small sample (I've used very little
of their stuff).
Their gridswitch equivalent fits 3 switches into a 1 gang plate,
so I use them when I want to do that. The switches fall to bits
after a few years (and I'm only using them to switch 12V 1mA input
to a home automation system, so that's a mechanical failure, not
electrical). I've also replaced a socket in someone else's house
where the switch had fallen to bits (in a different way).
So the sample is probably too small to be significant, but at
least concerning.
Rob
About half the Volex plug sockets in my house have faulty switches -
stuck in the on or off position. And the other half feel as if they're
going that way. Almost certainly less than 10 years old.
Rob
Mike
>Ashley & Crabtree I've always found reliable, well thought out, very
>robust, and with good attention to detail. FWIW Ashley also innovated
>a much better live pin contact protection system than MK's, but MK's
>sleeved pin approach won the day.
How did they come up with a better "live pin contact protection
system" than sleeved pins?
>MK I've had an acceptable but significant failure rate with, and
>they've realeased various ideas without sufficient testing that have
>proven to be problems. 2 examples are
>- sleeved pin plugs, which when we first had them consistently
>overheated and melted on sustained 13A loads.
>- press-in cordgrips, which failed to do one of the basic jobs of a
>cordgrip, to prevent cable terminations moving about, resulting in an
>increase in connection problems, which are of course a fire risk.
I've never ever had a problem with the press in cordgrip, nor with
overheating using MK plugs in use across many hundreds of appliances
in industrial applications. Most were low wattage appliances but
there were many 2 or 3kW electric heaters and very large office fans -
with four on the go it was not far off standing behinds a Lancaster.
Anything that came in for repair or test more or less automatically
got a new MK plug fitted - they were so popular we even had a large
batch produced with our own logo on the cover to try and prevent
'wastage' - it didn't work as a bit of scotchbrite removed it :)
--
John
"Rob" <patchoulia...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:vDpel.24747$Sp5....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
Perhaps the standard of sockets is being reduced to make us feel more
inclined to go with the European standards!
meow...@care2.com
> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 03:02:28 -0800 (PST), meow...@care2.com wrote:
> >Ashley & Crabtree I've always found reliable, well thought out, very
> >robust, and with good attention to detail. FWIW Ashley also innovated
> >a much better live pin contact protection system than MK's, but MK's
> >sleeved pin approach won the day.
>
> How did they come up with a better "live pin contact protection
> system" than sleeved pins?
The Ashley system was to use an embedded switch operated by the plug
pins. The socket only switched on when the plug was fully home, if it
came out a couple of mm it switched off. It protected against plug pin
touch, and also against overheating or arcing due to plugs coming part
way out. And it didnt affect the plug ampacity.
> >MK I've had an acceptable but significant failure rate with, and
> >they've realeased various ideas without sufficient testing that have
> >proven to be problems. 2 examples are
> >- sleeved pin plugs, which when we first had them consistently
> >overheated and melted on sustained 13A loads.
> >- press-in cordgrips, which failed to do one of the basic jobs of a
> >cordgrip, to prevent cable terminations moving about, resulting in an
> >increase in connection problems, which are of course a fire risk.
>
> I've never ever had a problem with the press in cordgrip, nor with
> overheating using MK plugs in use across many hundreds of appliances
> in industrial applications. Most were low wattage appliances but
> there were many 2 or 3kW electric heaters and very large office fans -
I wonder why - we did, repeatedly.
NT
Dave Plowman (News)
Andrew Gabriel <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> tend to be what gets used when a builder buys cheapest), and had
> GET simply wear out and fall apart rather quickly.
Trying to remember when I've ever replaced a failed or worn out accessory.
Of course a jobbing electrician will see this more often. Most
domestically get replaced for cosmetic reasons.
--
*If you think this van is dirty, you should try having sex with the driver*
Andrew Gabriel
"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> writes:
> In article <4979b0bd$0$512$5a6a...@news.aaisp.net.uk>,
> Andrew Gabriel <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Had several Ashley and Volex fail with high current loads (they
>> tend to be what gets used when a builder buys cheapest), and had
>> GET simply wear out and fall apart rather quickly.
>
> Trying to remember when I've ever replaced a failed or worn out accessory.
> Of course a jobbing electrician will see this more often. Most
> domestically get replaced for cosmetic reasons.
I've never needed to replace any parts I've bought and fitted,
but that's because I buy good quality parts in the first place
(with the exception of the previously mentioned GET gridswitch
parts, which I still buy for 12V use only, but I treat as
consumables).
I have however replaced quite a number that were previously
there when I moved in, or in other peoples' houses.
Even thinking of my parents house which is 50 years old,
fortunately wired with PVC T&E and with nearly all MK wiring
accessories, it has had only one of the original MK parts fail,
which was a light switch which wore out. (Also the original
Wylex wired CU started burning out, and I replaced it 10 years
ago, when I rewired their kitchen due to new kitchen being
fitted). Other than that, all the MK wiring and accessories
are original, and still in perfect working order.
When I moved into my first house in 1986, it had been
professional rewired in 1974, but just about every socket
outlet was knackered. Some of this was down to faulty plugs
from previous occupants which had damaged the sockets, but
a lot of it was down to buying the cheapest, I suspect.
Fortunately all the wiring behind was fine, although over
the years, I think I gradually replaced it all as I tackled
the decoration of each area of the house and properly fitted
more outlets into the ring, and eventually split the ring
into multiple separate rings, new CU, etc.
Appin
from meow...@care2.com contains these words:
> At the scary end of the scale, anyone remember clix plugs
Yes, but they were from another era. There were worse plugs around, in
many ways. And at least they were easy to wire, which was a major issue
in those far-off days when things didn't come with a plug on.
Jason
I think it depends where you buy it. B&Q, for example, seem to squeeze the
manufacturers so that the same MK product from them is far inferior to one from
someone else (at a little more cost). Dimmer switches are a case in point. I've
had two dimmer switches of the exact same model apart - one from B&Q and one
from an independent. The heat sink was smaller, and there were some surge
protection components missing from the B&Q model.
-- JJ
Tim S
> I think it depends where you buy it. B&Q, for example, seem to squeeze the
> manufacturers so that the same MK product from them is far inferior to one
> from someone else (at a little more cost). Dimmer switches are a case in
> point. I've had two dimmer switches of the exact same model apart - one
> from B&Q and one from an independent. The heat sink was smaller, and there
> were some surge protection components missing from the B&Q model.
>
To quote the Shamen: "Naughty naughty, very very naughty"...
I've been re-evaluating things and am looking at Crabtree more now. Pity -
GET had some very modular items, like grid light switches that would take a
mixture of remote-button dimmers and normal switches - and also a range of
20A DP grid switches with annotated removable rocker covers, so if you
swapped the dishwasher and fridge, you could swap the rocker covers on the
isolators rather than move the plate.
Cheers
Tim
Dave Liquorice
> I think it depends where you buy it. B&Q, for example, seem to squeeze
> the manufacturers so that the same MK product from them is far inferior
> to one from someone else (at a little more cost). Dimmer switches are a
> case in point. I've had two dimmer switches of the exact same model
> apart - one from B&Q and one from an independent. The heat sink was
> smaller, and there were some surge protection components missing from
> the B&Q model.
*Exact* same model number of the packaging? How about the bar code?
B&Q do seem to be getting quite adept at walking just down the legal side
of the line between illegal and legal. See the thread about kitchen unit
pricing. Also take a look at the Karcher pressure washers in B&Q, you
won't find them anywhere else or on the Karcher website. This gets 'em out
the price match promise as you can't get the same product anywhere else,
not illegal but not honourable IMHO.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Appelation Controlee
-------------------8><
> Perhaps the standard of sockets is being reduced to make us feel more
> inclined to go with the European standards!
There are zealots who will prevent that. As it is, we have to continue
using plugs capable of serving a 3-bar electric fire (must be pretty rare
these days) to connect appliances that draw bugger-all current.
And before you leap in (you kow who you are ;-), I _do_ understand the
implications of fuse positioning in the circuit.
Mike Clarke
> I think it depends where you buy it. B&Q, for example, seem to squeeze the
> manufacturers so that the same MK product from them is far inferior to one
> from someone else (at a little more cost). Dimmer switches are a case in
> point. I've had two dimmer switches of the exact same model apart - one
> from B&Q and one from an independent. The heat sink was smaller, and there
> were some surge protection components missing from the B&Q model.
Could it be that MK have recently started making the same model to a lower
standard and you bought from B&Q more recently than the from the
independent shop? Even if you bought from the independent more recently
than from B&Q it's quite likely that an item from B&Q is newer because B&Q
probably have a faster stock turnover than the independents.
--
Mike Clarke
Dave Plowman (News)
Appelation Controlee <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> There are zealots who will prevent that. As it is, we have to continue
> using plugs capable of serving a 3-bar electric fire (must be pretty rare
> these days) to connect appliances that draw bugger-all current.
> And before you leap in (you kow who you are ;-), I _do_ understand the
> implications of fuse positioning in the circuit.
Plenty of high current appliances still in use - washing machines, ovens,
dishwashers, kettles, etc.
You seem to be advocating going back to when there were several different
sizes in use and that - for those who remember it - was a nightmare.
If you do have an area where the size of 13 amp plugs is a problem - like
say a computer installation - there's nothing to stop you using something
smaller. IEC distribution blocks are readily available.
--
*The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up *
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
Tim S
> If you do have an area where the size of 13 amp plugs is a problem - like
> say a computer installation - there's nothing to stop you using something
> smaller. IEC distribution blocks are readily available.
>
There are some nice IEC blocks with individual fuses per outlet too.
The fly in the ointment are the random bits of kit with wall-warts - the
British 13A socket (and the ex British 15A still used in parts of the
world, eg S Africa) and the German Shucko are about the only systems I
reckon are strong enough to cope with those. Hanging them off a weedy 2 pin
just seems like asking for trouble.
Cheers
Tim
Rod
> In article <1tydlon26s1le.ifgtw28dxkp6$.d...@40tude.net>,
> Appelation Controlee <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> There are zealots who will prevent that. As it is, we have to continue
>> using plugs capable of serving a 3-bar electric fire (must be pretty rare
>> these days) to connect appliances that draw bugger-all current.
>> And before you leap in (you kow who you are ;-), I _do_ understand the
>> implications of fuse positioning in the circuit.
>
> Plenty of high current appliances still in use - washing machines, ovens,
> dishwashers, kettles, etc.
>
> You seem to be advocating going back to when there were several different
> sizes in use and that - for those who remember it - was a nightmare.
>
> If you do have an area where the size of 13 amp plugs is a problem - like
> say a computer installation - there's nothing to stop you using something
> smaller. IEC distribution blocks are readily available.
>
The mix of 2, 5, 15 and 13 amp plugs was indeed a disaster. (Plus some
odd two pin things.)
--
Rod
Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
<www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>
Dave Liquorice
> As it is, we have to continue using plugs capable of serving a 3-bar
> electric fire (must be pretty rare these days)
Er, our kettle is 3kW, we have a 2kW fan heater and an oil filled
convector, I forget what that is rated at. The schuko is rated 16A so I'm
not quite sure what your argument is.
> I _do_ understand the implications of fuse positioning in the circuit.
So you do know the cost implications of the UK changing to schuko which is
why it isn't going to happen, nothing to do with zealots.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Appelation Controlee
> On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 06:37:48 +0000, Appelation Controlee wrote:
>
>> As it is, we have to continue using plugs capable of serving a 3-bar
>> electric fire (must be pretty rare these days)
>
> Er, our kettle is 3kW, we have a 2kW fan heater and an oil filled
> convector, I forget what that is rated at. The schuko is rated 16A so I'm
> not quite sure what your argument is.
That bit was an aside, and poorly thought through - thanks for the
correction. :-)
Most appliances, though, don't load the connection anywhere near its
capability, but we still have to put up with a bloody great claw on the end
of the lead. In the case of portable appliances, this is a bit of a PITA.
>> I _do_ understand the implications of fuse positioning in the circuit.
>
> So you do know the cost implications of the UK changing to schuko which is
> why it isn't going to happen, nothing to do with zealots.
Yes obviously, but most contrary arguments in the past have centred on the
fact that shuko plugs don't incorporate a fuse, thus leaving open the
possibility ... etc., etc...
meow...@care2.com
There is a solution, one thats fully compatible, safe, and doesnt
cause any extra expense. Its to use fused plugs that are a 2 pin
version of today's bs1363 guage. New sockets would have 2 or 4 extra
holes per socket, enabling the pluggng of one 3 pin device or 2/3 2
pin devices. A 3 pin plug could still be inserted into every socket in
the land.
A note about shutters: new 2 pin plugs would not go into old sockets
that use an earth operated shutter, as many do. Existing sockets that
use a L&N operated shutter would be fine, and new sockets would need
to use this type of shutter.
NT
Rod
Understood. But what we all really want is any new standard to permit
use across frontiers as well.
We could have a 13A socket (as now) with a secondary socket
incorporated. The Europeans could have a Schuko-style (or similar, as
required), with the same secondary socket. And the US could have their
standard with a secondary socket.
The socket would have an extra connection to permit devices to be wired
for 110-only or 230-only or both.
(If this could be merged with power over Ethernet, we would be laughing!)
Between now and having such sockets fitted, a neat adaptor could be used
- appropriate to each market. (Multi-way adaptors should also be
possible.) But the manufacturers of electrical items would be able to
supply goods with one common plug at the end of the lead or on their
wall warts.
It would be possible to install sockets of the new design only if desired.
We could fuse either the new design secondary sockets or the new plugs.
However, given the desirability of supporting multi-voltage operation,
the socket seems the better location.
Of course, this would only support up to some arbitrary power limit but
it is obvious that the vast majority of devices are low-to-very-low
power consumption.
Mike
>There is a solution, one thats fully compatible, safe, and doesnt
>cause any extra expense. Its to use fused plugs that are a 2 pin
>version of today's bs1363 guage. New sockets would have 2 or 4 extra
>holes per socket, enabling the pluggng of one 3 pin device or 2/3 2
>pin devices. A 3 pin plug could still be inserted into every socket in
>the land.
>
>A note about shutters: new 2 pin plugs would not go into old sockets
>that use an earth operated shutter, as many do. Existing sockets that
>use a L&N operated shutter would be fine, and new sockets would need
>to use this type of shutter.
No one wants or needs to change anything. If Europe desperately
wants a standard plug then the answer is easy. Let them adopt ours. If
they don't like it then they can f*ck off.
--
TheOldFellow
Tim S <t...@dionic.net> wrote:
> Distorted Vision coughed up some electrons that declared:
>
> > I'm looking at buying various switches and sockets and was wondering
> > about the quality of different brands. I am very familar with MK but
> > have only really heard of Crabtree, Volex and Marbo. I normally buy MK
> > because I know they are good quality but we do not like the styling ot
> > the Logic Plus range. So I was wondering about the other brands. I
> > know they are all Electrium brands which are owned by Siemens. So I
> > was wondering if there was really a difference between them. The
> > reason I ask is that I've got a credit note from B&Q and they only
> > Marbo in the items I want. Otherwise I would have to go to my local
> > Edmumdson's or Screwfix for Crabtree or Volex.
> >
> > Many thanks for your help.
I think you'll find that most of these brands are trade marks of
Electrium. http://www.electrium.co.uk/ So probably all made in the
same factory (in China, no doubt).
I use Crabtree from Screwfix, and have had very few problems. And I
like the styling (so does SWMBO).
R.
Tim S
> I think you'll find that most of these brands are trade marks of
> Electrium. http://www.electrium.co.uk/ So probably all made in the
> same factory (in China, no doubt).
Well yes, Volex, Crabtree and Wylex are Electrium.
Which doesn't explain why people seem to think Volex is crap and Crabtree is
good..?
Cheers
Tim
Distorted Vision
trusses from gable to gable. Before that alot of the boards were
broken and they only extended about a quarter of the way along then a
little further with loose boards. Anyway there is just a single 100W
bulb in a pendant and its very inadequate now. I'm asking our
electrician to put four 4ft fluorescent tube lights up there. I was
wondering what the best manufacturer for them is. With it being in the
loft I wanted to get the best possible to avoid replacing eg if the
ballast goes.
Many thanks!
Dave Plowman (News)
Rod <poly...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> We could have a 13A socket (as now) with a secondary socket
> incorporated.
That would save no space - and simply complicate things for no advantage.
You might as well just have an adaptor if you had a second smaller plug.
Which I think is a bad idea anyway.
Our system may not be perfect - but it's better than any other currently
in use.
--
*Everybody lies, but it doesn't matter since nobody listens*
PeterC
Depends how long your loft is, but I was doing the same sort of job and
considered 3 or 4 tubes, One problem was getting them home, as I don't have
a car, then in Morrisons there were CFLs at 4 for £1 so I bought quite a
lot of 11W and 14W (gave several to my neighbour). Went to Wilkinsons and
bought some batten holders, Screwfix for cable etc.
Put 7 fitting along the loft, now have good, distributed lighting and the
total cost was about £8!
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.
Rod
> In article <6u5rcvF...@mid.individual.net>,
> Rod <poly...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> We could have a 13A socket (as now) with a secondary socket
>> incorporated.
>
> That would save no space - and simply complicate things for no advantage.
> You might as well just have an adaptor if you had a second smaller plug.
> Which I think is a bad idea anyway.
> Our system may not be perfect - but it's better than any other currently
> in use.
>
multi-way sockets which could easily be much denser. Obviously, that
would only be appropriate in places where it is anticipated that lots of
small things will be in use.
What it would do is permit a neat, relatively safe design of light duty
plug. (One that doesn't take up more space than the appliance in some
cases.)
Andrew Gabriel
In a loft for very occasional use, just use a cheap 4-pack from
one of the sheds, or from a wholesaler if he can match the price
(probably can't). Old magnetic ballasts hardly ever die (providing
you ignore the american 120V marketplace, where they often die).
Might want to think if you need any method to avoid leaving them
on accidentally.
Dave Plowman (News)
Rod <poly...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> > In article <6u5rcvF...@mid.individual.net>,
> > Rod <poly...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >> We could have a 13A socket (as now) with a secondary socket
> >> incorporated.
> >
> > That would save no space - and simply complicate things for no
> > advantage. You might as well just have an adaptor if you had a second
> > smaller plug. Which I think is a bad idea anyway. Our system may not
> > be perfect - but it's better than any other currently in use.
> >
> It would not save space on the wall. Unless people choose to fit
> multi-way sockets which could easily be much denser. Obviously, that
> would only be appropriate in places where it is anticipated that lots of
> small things will be in use.
> What it would do is permit a neat, relatively safe design of light duty
> plug. (One that doesn't take up more space than the appliance in some
> cases.)
Here the two areas where that might help is round a computer installation
and an AV one. But not everyone will have so much clutter - so if all they
want is a printer to be used with a laptop is it to be supplied with a
large or small plug under your scheme? Or both? Or without - and you fit
your own? Then, of course, many small appliances use a wall wart - and
these would be too large for your small socket.
--
*I love cats...they taste just like chicken.
Mike Barnes
In uk.d-i-y, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>Our system may not be perfect - but it's better than any other currently
>in use.
Unfortunately, that's what everybody says.
--
Mike Barnes
Rod
everyone, in the UK will have a few 13A to RU adaptors. If it uses a
figure-of-8 lead or similar that plugs into the printer (i.e. not a
fixed lead), maybe people would choose to use a 13A lead as a
need-to-buy-separately alternative.
Go to Euro-socket land with your laptop and printer, all you need is the
local adaptor. And only if you go to places that have not yet fitted the
new RU sockets!
Wall warts should be replaced by PoE, USB or something else common.
I don't think that it is only computer and AV kit - though they probably
do predominate. Thinking about low power devices near me (but we have
yet to agree a definition of low power!):
Lamp (11W CFL)
Shaver
DVD player
Virgin Box
Monitors
External drives
Bosch drill battery charger
Makita battery charger
Mouse base stations
Desk fan
Lamp (20W halogen)
Kitchen hand mixer
Torch charger
Printer
Scanner (but that is happy on USB-only)
Hair clippers
Car battery charger
Soldering iron
Hot melt glue gun
Stapler
Phone chargers
DECT phone adaptor
And I am sure I have missed quite a few.
meow...@care2.com
So lets get this right - youre suggesting going back to the old way of
having 2 incompatible plug types plus adaptors. Anyone who lived with
that will know why its a dud idea.
Then youre suggesting mixed 110/230 wiring, which adds a whole pile of
expense, will kill lots of appliances, and simply isnt necessary for
99% of the population.
This is all way too high a price to pay for harmonisation with
mainland europe.
NT
Dave Plowman (News)
I've copied the list and removed all those which are computer or AV.
> Lamp (11W CFL)
If that's on it's own, is the size of the plug a problem? Or is it used
with your computer, etc?
> Shaver
Mains ones already have a small plug. If rechargeable, usually a wall
wart.
> Bosch drill battery charger
> Makita battery charger
Since these aren't fixed, wouldn't having to have two plugs be a pain?
> Desk fan
> Lamp (20W halogen)
> Kitchen hand mixer
When in a kitchen is the size of the plug a problem? You need a given
amount of work space to use these things so plenty of room for adequate
sockets.
> Torch charger
> Hair clippers
> Car battery charger
> Soldering iron
> Hot melt glue gun
> Stapler
> Phone chargers
> DECT phone adaptor
What comes out of this is you probably have too many toys for your
available sockets and or living space. Making sockets and plugs smaller
won't alter this. ;-)
--
*Why is a boxing ring square?
PeterC
The switch for mine is fused spur at the top of the ladder, so I can
operate it on the way out.
A cheap 40A shower pull-switch would be OK - has neon (unreliable) and
mechanical flag (less unreliable).
Rod
I don't think that there is anywhere in mainland Europe that uses 110V,
is there?
110/230 mixed is *only* if wanted. That would only be used for things
like laptops. Basically, if the device doesn't care it can connect to
110 or 230; if it cares, it can connect to just the one.
Rod
power/universal access) or we do without. The cost in terms of some form
of adaptor (at least for an interim period) seems to me to be worth it.
Fully accepted that others will disagree.
The number of times I have cursed 13A plugs for their bulk, their big
sticky-out design, their weight, etc.! And the pain when I stand on the
prongs...
I accept that last comment!
Jason
> On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 20:42:35 +0000, Jason wrote:
>
>> I think it depends where you buy it. B&Q, for example, seem to squeeze
>> the manufacturers so that the same MK product from them is far inferior
>> to one from someone else (at a little more cost). Dimmer switches are a
>> case in point. I've had two dimmer switches of the exact same model
>> apart - one from B&Q and one from an independent. The heat sink was
>> smaller, and there were some surge protection components missing from
>> the B&Q model.
>
>
> B&Q do seem to be getting quite adept at walking just down the legal side
> of the line between illegal and legal. See the thread about kitchen unit
> pricing. Also take a look at the Karcher pressure washers in B&Q, you
> won't find them anywhere else or on the Karcher website. This gets 'em out
> the price match promise as you can't get the same product anywhere else,
> not illegal but not honourable IMHO.
>
Probably not the exact bar code, but definitely the same model number.
Jason
Yes, that is a possibility.
Distorted Vision
keeping up. Anyway I was asking about fluorescent tube fittings. For
areas of heavy usage what is the best quality brands to use for the
batten fitting?
Dave Plowman (News)
<f9bb7754-7a60-4ce6...@w39g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
That's a bit of a broad question. If you mean separate ballasts I've got
Osram high frequency ones which have been very reliable. But pricey.
--
*A journey of a thousand sites begins with a single click *
Andrew Gabriel
Rod <poly...@ntlworld.com> writes:
> It seems inevitable that we either go for a second plug design (for low
> power/universal access) or we do without. The cost in terms of some form
> of adaptor (at least for an interim period) seems to me to be worth it.
> Fully accepted that others will disagree.
Yes, everyone who's lived in a house wired with different sockets,
and that's one reason the 13A plug/socket was so readily accepted.
Grimly Curmudgeon
drugs began to take hold. I remember and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew
Gabriel) saying something like:
>Yes, everyone who's lived in a house wired with different sockets,
>and that's one reason the 13A plug/socket was so readily accepted.
Exactly. Unless one lives in broom cupboard, I see no difficulty with
the size of current 13A UK sockets.
Dave Liquorice
>> Yes, everyone who's lived in a house wired with different sockets,
>> and that's one reason the 13A plug/socket was so readily accepted.
Agreed, mixed plug/socket sizes is a right PIAT.
> Exactly. Unless one lives in broom cupboard, I see no difficulty with
> the size of current 13A UK sockets.
The only real problem is when you have lots of low powered kit in one
place, like by the telly or computer. Then having a dozen or so things all
wanting a 13A socket to draw 10W is a bit annoying. Things with flexes can
be rewired to IEC but that doesn't help with wall warts.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Andy Burns
> mixed plug/socket sizes is a right PIAT.
Pain In Anal Territory?
Dave Liquorice
>> mixed plug/socket sizes is a right PIAT.
>
> Pain In Anal Territory?
CEFJ
--
Cheers
Dave.
Rod
of all new sockets) would not be the same level of problem as the 2/5/15
things we used to have. (I spent years at a boarding school with the
problems of different buildings having different sockets. 'Twas nasty.
But my suggestion could be achieved without the truly horrible side and
only a moderate level of inconvenience/use of adaptors.)
It would make sense for all sorts of reasons.
o Make it possible for all sorts of situations to provide mains
electricity to customers/visitors. E.g. trains, planes, road vehicles,
etc.) The small size socket would be much easier to incorporate into the
diverse locations than a full 13A faceplate.
o Many devices could have a neat plug stowage location. Our Miele
vacuum cleaner has such a space - but I think it is the only electrical
device we have that does. Even that looks as though it would more
comfortably accept a Schuko. This also serves to protect the plug.
The obvious alternative approach would be the use of IEC/kettle cables
(or similar). But we would end up with piles of cables to manage. IMHO,
a few adaptors are simpler and easier.
Dave Plowman (News)
Rod <poly...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >> Exactly. Unless one lives in broom cupboard, I see no difficulty with
> >> the size of current 13A UK sockets.
> >
> > The only real problem is when you have lots of low powered kit in one
> > place, like by the telly or computer. Then having a dozen or so things
> > all wanting a 13A socket to draw 10W is a bit annoying. Things with
> > flexes can be rewired to IEC but that doesn't help with wall warts.
> >
> A small plug (which, as I have suggested, would become a standard part
> of all new sockets) would not be the same level of problem as the 2/5/15
> things we used to have.
Then that wouldn't make the wall fittings any smaller. And increase the
price considerably. Of course you could then use a smaller trailing
splitter block - but then that option is open to you now. Although I
don't know how you'd get on with wall warts in the places where this
might save space - like at a computer.
--
*Few women admit their age; fewer men act it.