Spammed by Screwfix?
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)
For those DIYers who buy from Screwfix:
You might like to be aware of their spam policy, which I have found out to
my cost. I am intending to issue legal action for recovery of my invoice
amount.
After the first spam incident, I wrote to them pointing out that I had not
authorised their sending of junkmail and that although no charge would be
made this time, any future use (by them) of my storage would be charged out
at £50 plus VAT per incident. Then they spammed me again which is why I
issued an invoice. Subsequently I have been chasing payment.......
I received the following letter:
3 December 2003
I write following your telephone calls chasing the payment of your
speculative invoice. Although we are not obliged at all to your invoice,
statement of account or telephone calls, given your persistence with this
matter, I am writing to finally confirm that we will not be making any
payment to you.
There has been no breach by us of any legislation in force at the time that
the marketing emails were sent and you are now suppressed on our database so
no further marketing emails will be sent to you.
Although we are under a duty to to process "opt-out" requests reasonably
promptly, we are not required to immediately suppress a customer's email
details, and indeed it would be unreasonable to be so required.. As we use
a third party mailing house to deal with our email marketing campaigns,
there naturally will be some emails which are sent during the period between
the opt-out request being received by us and it being processed.
I gather that you have mentioned the new legislation which comes into force
on 11 December 2003 although I am puzzled how this will bolster your case
given that it is not retrospective. Even once the new legislation is in
force, we will continue to send email marketing to our customers without
their explicit prior consent ('opt-in'). The new regime allows us to send
marketing emails which relate to the same or similar products to those
purchased (i.e. in the case of Screfix Direct, our entire range) so long as
we offer a no-cost opportunity to 'opt-out' from receiving future
e-mailings. In any event the new legislation relates only to personal (not
business) email addresses, and your business' email address would therefore not be afforded the new protection.
I trust that this now puts an end to this matter, and would request that you
cease from any further chasing for payment of your invoice. However, you
are, of course free to seek legal advice regarding your complaint and if you
feel minded to issue legal proceedings, as you have threatened, please
ensure they are served on us at our registered office address below, marked
for my attention.
Yours sincerely
Richard MacNamara
Company Secretary
HO reception +44 1935 414100
I am committed to the Boulder Pledge, which states that I will not buy
anything from a spammer. Sad really, because they have a good
range.
--
AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk
Grunff
> After the first spam incident, I wrote to them pointing out that I had not
> authorised their sending of junkmail and that although no charge would be
> made this time, any future use (by them) of my storage would be charged out
> at £50 plus VAT per incident. Then they spammed me again which is why I
> issued an invoice. Subsequently I have been chasing payment.......
>
>
> I received the following letter:
Hmmm...
I'm generally very spam intolerant, but I don't think screwfix
are in the wrong here.
The mere fact that they bothered to reply to you is indicative
of their overall superb customer service.
By the way, did you get their permission before publishing that
letter here?
--
Grunff
Lee Blaver
whom you have freely given your email adress and possibly purchased
from, then sends you adverts?
I don't consider this the same thing as the normal sort of spam, which
is a real problem.
I've snipped the adverts from the orignal post...
Lee
--
To reply use lee.blaver and ntlworld.com
Michael McNeil
news:107089354...@ersa.uk.clara.net
> I'm generally very spam intolerant, but I don't think screwfix
> are in the wrong here.
>
> The mere fact that they bothered to reply to you is indicative
> of their overall superb customer service.
>
> By the way, did you get their permission before publishing that
> letter here?
First off:
The letter belongs to whomsoever it was sent to. The recipient
can do what he wishes with it.
In this country it is illegal to hold information about anyone on
computer without the person's knowledge. I am not sure it is a matter of
gaining consent though.
No one is allowed to send spam in the name of good service surely? What
exactly are the laws of this land on that; anyone know?
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)
<URL:mailto:gru...@ixxa.com> wrote:
> I'm generally very spam intolerant, but I don't think screwfix
> are in the wrong here.
a) The "Do not spam me" button on the wevsite was selected.
b) They spammed me anyway.
c) They were told again not to and that I would look to recover my costs of
reporting them to their upstream, clearing the crap from my system and
incorporating spamblocked.com filtering etc in the event of a repeat.
d) They ignored me and spammed me again.
> The mere fact that they bothered to reply to you is indicative
> of their overall superb customer service.
Indicative only of the fact that I told them I was intending to issue legal
action. As you saw, they also believe that it is perfectly reasonable to
continue to spam regardless.
> By the way, did you get their permission before publishing that
> letter here?
They have been warned that any communications will be used in whatever
manner I choose, including publishing in the newspapers if need be. So far
the local paper has taken an interest, although I intend to offer the story
to a national too. I need to find out how that may affect a court case
first though. It should make an interesting test case!
TonyK
"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:ant08131...@office.spews.co.uk...
>
> For those DIYers who buy from Screwfix:
>
> You might like to be aware of their spam policy, which I have found out to
> my cost. I am intending to issue legal action for recovery of my invoice
> amount.
>
>
> I am committed to the Boulder Pledge, which states that I will not buy
> anything from a spammer. Sad really, because they have a good
> range.
>
> --
> AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
> http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>
Why disclose your email address anyway?
David Hearn
"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:ant08131...@office.spews.co.uk...
>
I'm sorry but I fail to see the problem. As a customer of Screwfix you have
received emails from them about their products. You requested to be removed
from their list, which they did, however emails still got through before
your request was processed (by a 3rd party).
You also were referring to legislation which has not come into effect yet
(which excludes emails to business email accounts which are still
unregulated)
Their letter has actually raised my impression of Screwfix as they obviously
take customer comments seriously and have acted responsibly in my opinion.
Incidentally, with letters, the contents (ie. words) of the letter are
copyright of the author. The medium on which they are written (eg. paper)
can be sold but not republished without permission of the author.
Therefore, copy/pasting an email/letter into a newsgroup posting without
permission of the author isn't right. Any disputes, do a search on
newsgroups for "legal publish letter" and see what comes up.
D
David Hearn
<snip>
> > By the way, did you get their permission before publishing that
> > letter here?
>
> They have been warned that any communications will be used in whatever
> manner I choose, including publishing in the newspapers if need be. So far
> the local paper has taken an interest, although I intend to offer the
story
> to a national too. I need to find out how that may affect a court case
> first though. It should make an interesting test case!
I fail to see how warning someone that their reply will be published, yet
requiring a reply is fair. They have not expressly given their permission
for publishing of the mail. Had they not replied, you would then get
annoyed at them for that!
D
Mike P
reductions they have to offer you?
Very strange!
Why not just add it to your Block List?
I'm with Screwfix on this one.
Mike P.
Tony Bryer
> I know it's a question of semantics, but is it really spam
> if someone to whom you have freely given your email adress
> and possibly purchased from, then sends you adverts?
> I don't consider this the same thing as the norma
I'm with you here. But if the OP decides that he never wants to
deal with Screwfix ever again then a proverb about noses and
cutting comes to mind.
--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)
<URL:mailto:da...@NoSpamSwampieSpammer.Org.Uk> wrote:
> They have not expressly given their permission
> for publishing of the mail.
They were told specifically NOT to spam me. They then did it twice, despite
my warning. Pot, kettle, black?
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)
<URL:mailto:da...@NoSpamSwampieSpammer.Org.Uk> wrote:
>
>
> I'm sorry but I fail to see the problem. As a customer of Screwfix you have
> received emails from them about their products.
No I haven't. I specifically said they should NOT spam me.
> You requested to be removed
> from their list,
I pointed out their transgression and gave them the opportunity
to remedy it.
> which they did, however emails still got through before
> your request was processed (by a 3rd party).
Not my problem. There were three weeks between my letter and their
subsequent spam.
> You also were referring to legislation which has not come into effect yet
> (which excludes emails to business email accounts which are still
> unregulated)
That came from a comment in my telephone call to them about what they intend
to do once the new legislation is brought in. You can see that it will not
make the slightest difference to them.
I am sick of having to spend time sorting out my genuine customer emails
from junk that I have not asked for, and indeed have specifically
rejected. Reputable companies do not spam. Those who spam me, lose my
business, it's as simple as that.
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)
It was a "refer a friend" on their website. Luckily I always use a unique
address for this sort of thing so that I can track any untoward use. My mail
is filtered by spamblocked.com too, so it is easy to get junk stopped at the
router.
Alan James
"David Hearn" <da...@NoSpamSwampieSpammer.Org.Uk> wrote in message
news:br27eh$4dc$1...@news.ukfsn.org...
>
>
> Their letter has actually raised my impression of Screwfix as they
obviously
> take customer comments seriously and have acted responsibly in my opinion.
>
is a green light to email about ANY of their products. IMHO that is going
too far. I opted out a few days ago when the MD emailed that there were
some new sockets in stock and then another email followed not long
afterwards. Don't know whether I am in practice opted-out or not but when I
checked my account I still have the opt-in box ticked, something I am not
sure I ever selected. Without necessarily agreening with the OP, the
Screwfix letter is too cavalier for my liking.
Alan
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)
<URL:mailto:to...@delme.sda.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <br21q0$273rfo$1...@ID-169177.news.uni-berlin.de>, Lee
> Blaver wrote:
> > I know it's a question of semantics, but is it really spam
> > if someone to whom you have freely given your email adress
> > and possibly purchased from, then sends you adverts?
> > I don't consider this the same thing as the norma
>
> I'm with you here. But if the OP decides that he never wants to
> deal with Screwfix ever again then a proverb about noses and
> cutting comes to mind.
The fact that they have been trusted my email address does not give them the
right to ignore my instructions NOT to spam me. If they can't offer me this
simple courtesy, I have no wish to use their service anymore.
Grunff
>>I'm generally very spam intolerant, but I don't think screwfix
>>are in the wrong here.
>
> I do. Spam is spam. Spam is theft. Spam is more noise added to
> the already terrible email signal/noise ratio.
>
> Fortunately, they spam from a specific address, different to the
> one the order confirmations come from, so the first time it happened,
> I merely added them to my reject list.
But would you stop using them just because it took them a few
weeks to opt you out?
I have a very tough policy for dealing with suppliers - if they
piss me off, even once, they go on my blacklist. Life's too short.
But if I used possible spam as a selection criterion, my list
would grow very quickly and I'd soon run out of suppliers.
As for your assertion that 'spam is spam' - do you really mean
that? Is an email from screwfix, whom you've ordered from in the
past and are currently on their customer db, the same as spam
from some company you've never heard of offering to increase
your site traffic by 500%, or to enlarge your member by a
similar percentage? To me they are quite different.
--
Grunff
Mike P
> AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
> http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk
Ang about, aren't these a form SPAMS?
Aren't you advertising your business?
Mike P.
Andrew Gabriel
"Michael McNeil" <weathe...@hotmail.com> writes:
> "Grunff" <gru...@ixxa.com> wrote in message
> news:107089354...@ersa.uk.clara.net
>> I'm generally very spam intolerant, but I don't think screwfix
>> are in the wrong here.
>>
>> The mere fact that they bothered to reply to you is indicative
>> of their overall superb customer service.
>>
>> By the way, did you get their permission before publishing that
>> letter here?
>
> First off:
>
> The letter belongs to whomsoever it was sent to. The recipient
> can do what he wishes with it.
Your knowlege of copyright is sadly lacking.
> In this country it is illegal to hold information about anyone on
> computer without the person's knowledge.
Your knowlege of the Data Protection Act is similarly lacking.
> I am not sure it is a matter of
> gaining consent though.
No.
> No one is allowed to send spam in the name of good service surely? What
> exactly are the laws of this land on that; anyone know?
Yes, but they change in a few days time.
--
Andrew Gabriel
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)
<URL:mailto:gru...@ixxa.com> wrote:
> But would you stop using them just because it took them a few
> weeks to opt you out?
That was not the complaint. The complaint was that they spammed me twice in
defiance of my original instruction not to do so. Evan after the first time
they spammed me, I gave them the benefit of the doubt.
> I have a very tough policy for dealing with suppliers - if they
> piss me off, even once, they go on my blacklist. Life's too short.
So do I, it's called the Boulder Pledge.
> But if I used possible spam as a selection criterion, my list
> would grow very quickly and I'd soon run out of suppliers.
Disagree. Most reputable companies wouldn't dream of behaving like that.
> As for your assertion that 'spam is spam' - do you really mean
> that?
Spam is theft, spam is spam.
> Is an email from screwfix, whom you've ordered from in the
> past
And have specifically told they do not have my permission to spam me.
> spam
> from some company you've never heard of offering to increase
> your site traffic by 500%, or to enlarge your member by a
> similar percentage? To me they are quite different.
Is it unsolicited?
Is it bulk or commercial?
Is it email?
Then it is UBE / UCE aka spam. Have you any idea what the spam load would
be like if just one mailing was sent out by each business in just one
country? Would you be happy to be deluged by that?
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)
<URL:mailto:mjp...@btinspamternet.com> wrote:
> Ang about, aren't these a form SPAMS?
That's called a signature. Your software is supposed to snip anything after
the delimiter "dash dash space". Check the RFCs for info about sig files.
--
derek
<mjp...@btinspamternet.com> wrote:
>AJL put in his post:
>
>> AJL Electronics (G6FGO) Ltd : Satellite and TV aerial systems
>> http://www.classicmicrocars.co.uk : http://www.ajlelectronics.co.uk
>
>
>Ang about, aren't these a form SPAMS?
>
No, it's part of a valid sig.
>Aren't you advertising your business?
That much is acceptable and it may be useful to the group.
DG
Tony Bryer
> . If they can't offer me this
> simple courtesy, I have no wish to use their service anymore.
Fair enough. But who is the loser?
David Hearn
"Mike P" <mjp...@btinspamternet.com> wrote in message
news:br265k$5um$1...@titan.btinternet.com...
Yes, I was going to point this out too - however whilst this group doesn't
have a charter, the FAQ states that 4 lines of 75 characters are allowed as
signature adverts for posters.
Must admit though - its theft of my bandwidth by all of about 100 characters
;) Its certainly unsolicited and commercial though... bulk... well, its
indiscriminate...
I'd like to opt out of it please. ;)
D
David Hearn
Its still downloaded and wastes bandwidth (at least, that's what people who
complain about short adverts in newsgroups claim about the posts)... ;)
Whilst a reader may strip it - it still displays it - else what's the point
of it being there if we can't see it?
D
TonyK
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)
> Electronics) wrote:
> > . If they can't offer me this
> > simple courtesy, I have no wish to use their service anymore.
>
> Fair enough. But who is the loser?
Only them, although I don't suppose they will even notice. :-)
There are reputable suppliers out there like Unifix who I always used to
use. They will match Screwfix for price but give a better service.
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)
<URL:mailto:da...@NoSpamSwampieSpammer.Org.Uk> wrote:
> Its still downloaded and wastes bandwidth
It only wastes bandwidth when it isn't trimmed from replies. It is a known
bug that Mickeysoft products don't do this automatically.
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)
<URL:mailto:T...@SMP.com> wrote:
> How on earth do you cope if you get an unsolicited phone call!!
I defend myself with ACR, CTR and putting the phone down on anyone who asks
for "the owner of the business". :-)
Grunff
> It only wastes bandwidth when it isn't trimmed from replies. It is a known
> bug that Mickeysoft products don't do this automatically.
I wasn't going to get involved in the sig debate - I don't have
a problem with your sig - but it does actually waste bandwidth
every time a message is downloaded.
--
Grunff
Jim
If you advertise your business deals in your local paper then you have just
SPAMMED me. I buy the paper to read the news and your ad (SPAM) pisses me
off. Do you also sue those who drop SPAM through your letterbox and cause
you to bend over to pick it up and take it to the bin. Get real man--or get
a weapon you know how to use.
Toby
> I am sick of having to spend time sorting out my genuine customer
> emails from junk that I have not asked for, and indeed have
It would appear from your actions that you have more than enough time on
your hands. As you & they used a unique address, block it and move on.
--
Toby.
'One day son, all this will be finished'
Mike P
> That much is acceptable and it may be useful to the group.
> DG
But isn't the information Screwfix sends out to their existing customers
concidered useful?, I think so!.
After starting the debate do you honestly think that AJL is going to throw
his Screwfix catalogue in the bin and rip the arms of his teddy bear, nah!
I wonder how the prices for TV/Sky accessories on his site compare to
Screwfix, does he sell 10 x Female connectors for £1.20, if it didn't take
so long to open the pages on his site (yawn) I might be able to tell you.
Spam rhymes with Scam, he might be touting for sales by trying to put us off
Screwfix.
Mike P
BillR
>
[SNIP of extremely tedious rant about 2 or 3 unwanted emails]
Get a life you time waster!
Jerry.
>
<snip rant>
And if you post similar rants to this group I'll be sending you my own
invoice for bandwidth theft, time and storage.
Deal with your own Spam, don't complain about something you yourself is
doing via this group !
Mike P
> There are reputable suppliers out there like Unifix who I always used to
use. They will match Screwfix for price but give a better service.
Ang about a mo, did you say "always used to use", "match the price", "better
service" Well why do you use Screwfix in the first place ??
And I assume by the fuss that Unifix won't send you any special offers or
latest additions to their catalogue by email because you don't like these
kind of spam's?.
You would just have to wait until they send you an updated hardcopy
catalogue through the post, say every 3 months?
Why don't you just 'bite the bullet' on this issue because you will just dig
your pit deeper & deeper!.
Mike P.
David Hearn
Not to mention the fact that clicking on his 'Sky' button on this site seems
to put me into an infinite error loop. I keep seeing "Web site found.
Waiting for reply" and something like www.ajelectronics.co.uk/error.html
flashing up repeatedly in the Status Bar - so fast I can't really make out
the 3rd message that's coming up. After 2 minutes of waiting (on broadband)
I think it just means it's broken.
D
chris French
<mjp...@btinspamternet.com> writes
>YOU buy from Screwfix and you don't want to know what new products or price
>reductions they have to offer you?
>
>Very strange!
>
Not at all, I nearly always tick the relevant boxes for not receiving
emails about promotions etc. I never really find them of benefit.
--
Chris French, Leeds
chris French
Electronics)" <m...@privacy.net> writes
>In article <br27eh$4dc$1...@news.ukfsn.org>, David Hearn
><URL:mailto:da...@NoSpamSwampieSpammer.Org.Uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm sorry but I fail to see the problem. As a customer of Screwfix you have
>> received emails from them about their products.
>
>
>No I haven't. I specifically said they should NOT spam me.
>
Fair enough, though I presume at some point the 'send me emails about
promotions' option was selected?
>
>
>> which they did, however emails still got through before
>> your request was processed (by a 3rd party).
>
>Not my problem. There were three weeks between my letter and their
>subsequent spam.
>
>I am sick of having to spend time sorting out my genuine customer emails
>rejected. Reputable companies do not spam. Those who spam me, lose my
>business, it's as simple as that.
so all this fuss is because they took a few weeks to process this. Ok,
you could reasonably argue that in this day and age that is longer than
necessary - but is all this ranting really necessary over few emails?
I've never been sent such emails from Screwfix, given the number of us
here that use them I would have expected more messages of support for
you if this was a such a great problem.
--
Chris French, Leeds
Owain
| For those DIYers who buy from Screwfix:
| found out to my cost. I am intending to issue legal action
| for recovery of my invoice amount.
[from Screwfix letter:]
| In any event the new legislation relates only to personal (not
| business) email addresses,
Mmm yes that's right isn't it.
Don't suppose Mr MacNamara put his email address on his letter did he?
Owain
Mike P
price
> >reductions they have to offer you?
> >
> >Very strange!
> >
> Not at all, I nearly always tick the relevant boxes for not receiving
> emails about promotions etc. I never really find them of benefit.
>
> --
> Chris French, Leeds
Well you've missed some bargains then, why subscribe or order from them if
you miss the opportunity to save money!
Mike P.
Mark S.
<mjp...@btinspamternet.com> wrote:
>YOU buy from Screwfix and you don't want to know what new products or price
>reductions they have to offer you?
>
>Very strange!
>
>Why not just add it to your Block List?
>
>I'm with Screwfix on this one.
>
>Mike P.
>
Hell I was glad to get it at least I could read it with interest
instead of spending all my free time dealing with all these naughty
Russian schoolgirls out there. ;-)
Mark S.
geoff
<da...@NoSpamSwampieSpammer.Org.Uk> writes
advert to the sig. Personally I choose not to, but I don't see why other
people shouldn't if they wish
--
geoff
Scott Mills
"Michael McNeil" <weathe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b9bae1f1fa58871c4be...@mygate.mailgate.org...
> "Grunff" <gru...@ixxa.com> wrote in message
> news:107089354...@ersa.uk.clara.net
> > I'm generally very spam intolerant, but I don't think screwfix
> > are in the wrong here.
> >
> > The mere fact that they bothered to reply to you is indicative
> > of their overall superb customer service.
> >
> > By the way, did you get their permission before publishing that
> > letter here?
>
> First off:
>
> The letter belongs to whomsoever it was sent to. The recipient
> can do what he wishes with it.
>
> gaining consent though.
Ooops, try again...
>
> No one is allowed to send spam in the name of good service surely? What
> exactly are the laws of this land on that; anyone know?
>
>
> --
> Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
morgan
> YOU buy from Screwfix and you don't want to know what new products or price
> reductions they have to offer you?
>
> Very strange!
>
> Why not just add it to your Block List?
>
> I'm with Screwfix on this one.
>
> Mike P.
Sorry to be blunt, but I think the original poster is a fool to
himself and has shot himself in the foot....!
I agree with Screwfix.
morgan
Andy Dingley
> Is an email from screwfix, whom you've ordered from in the
>past and are currently on their customer db, the same as spam
>from some company you've never heard of
In my case, yes.
I've never given my email address to Screwfix, nor have I had email
from them. If they ever did send me some, it would have been from
purchasing a list, and that's a hanging offence on my mailer.
Axminster OTOH do have my email address (for I once ordered on-line,
before abandoning it to go back to the phones). They spam me
regularly, and I wish they didn't. But in the current vague
environment, I'm prepared to give an existing supplier some leeway for
cluelessness, rather than assuming evil spammerhood. I'd even prefer
it if they'd just get a damned clue and not send me emails that are
unreadable in plain text.
So broadly I'd have to agree with you. It's an annoyance (do they
really _want_ to annoy customers ?), but I'll put up with it. One step
further though, and they're off my Xmas card list - I reaqlly don;t
want companies to think that "spam is OK"
This morning I had 10 offers for a "cleaner colon". Now that's _real_
spam.
--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods
use...@isbd.co.uk
> In article <br265k$5um$1...@titan.btinternet.com>, Mike P
> <URL:mailto:mjp...@btinspamternet.com> wrote:
>
> > Ang about, aren't these a form SPAMS?
>
> That's called a signature. Your software is supposed to snip anything after
> the delimiter "dash dash space". Check the RFCs for info about sig files.
>
why do you put it there then?
--
Chris Green (cgr...@x-1.net)
Richard
>
>For those DIYers who buy from Screwfix:
>
>You might like to be aware of their spam policy, which I have found out to
>my cost. I am intending to issue legal action for recovery of my invoice
>amount.
>
snip
I too have bought from screwfix, I too have always opted out of all
e-mail offers. I do not need to know about all their special offers,
or indeed any of their special offers. I like to buy things to my
timescales, not to theirs. I too have started to get spam from screw
fix. I too have re -opted out and am still getting the e-mails. To me
this is spam. Clearly they have good products and sell them cheaply.
Thus they have a good reputation and are liked on this group. It is
unfortunate that their unsolicited e-mail policy is so harsh.
To my mind they are spammers. They are sending out e-mails that people
do NOT want and have specifically requested to be removed from their
database. I do not accept that 3 weeks is an acceptable length of time
to get removed from a mailing list in this day of modern technology. I
feel that this delay is merely an excuse to allow them to keep on
mailing.
Now knowing their spamming policy I would look elsewhere first for
what I want before using them, and then using them only if they are
significantly cheaper.
That said the OP is going over the top regarding invoicing them and
taking them to court. I have better things to do with my life than
feeding trolls and spammers.
Richard
Dave Plowman
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> You might like to be aware of their spam policy, which I have found out
> to my cost. I am intending to issue legal action for recovery of my
> invoice amount.
> After the first spam incident, I wrote to them pointing out that I had
> not authorised their sending of junkmail and that although no charge
> would be made this time, any future use (by them) of my storage would be
> charged out at £50 plus VAT per incident. Then they spammed me again
> which is why I issued an invoice. Subsequently I have been chasing
> payment.......
I'm slightly confused here. Screwfix only really do mail order, so without
an up to date catalogue, I'm not sure how you'd deal with them easily? And
surely the same applies to fliers or e-mails with special offers etc?
Personally, I've no objection to e-mail 'fliers' from companies I deal
with, and will indeed sometimes even take advantage of the offers.
Spam, to me, is completely unsolicited e-mail from someone I've had no
dealings with or likely to have.
--
*Pentium wise, pen and paper foolish *
Dave Plowman dave....@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn
Jerry.
"Richard" <ju...@kultureshock.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5ur9tvcmn7q40gafo...@4ax.com...
<snip>
>
> I too have bought from screwfix, I too have always opted out of all
> e-mail offers. I do not need to know about all their special offers,
> or indeed any of their special offers. I like to buy things to my
> timescales, not to theirs. I too have started to get spam from screw
> fix. I too have re -opted out and am still getting the e-mails. To me
> this is spam. Clearly they have good products and sell them cheaply.
> Thus they have a good reputation and are liked on this group. It is
> unfortunate that their unsolicited e-mail policy is so harsh.
>
You have a choice, save a few quid and get some spam, or pay a few quid
more for a product and get no spam. The choice is yours, as the saying
goes - 'There is no such thing as a free lunch'.
chris French
<mjp...@btinspamternet.com> writes
>> >YOU buy from Screwfix and you don't want to know what new products or
>price
>> >reductions they have to offer you?
>> >
>> >Very strange!
>> >
>> Not at all, I nearly always tick the relevant boxes for not receiving
>> emails about promotions etc. I never really find them of benefit.
>Well you've missed some bargains then,
Possibly, but IME unlikely for me.
>why subscribe
I don't subscribe to anything with them.
>or order from them
I order things that I want when I want them for the normal reasons.,
their prices are pretty good, delivery is usually good etc.
> if
>you miss the opportunity to save money!
For the same reasons as I don't want junk snail mail or junk phone
calls. While there is a small possibility I may derive some benefit, the
hassle factor isn't worth it for me.
YMMV (it would seem :-))
--
Chris French, Leeds
Bob Eager
<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> In article <br265k$5um$1...@titan.btinternet.com>, Mike P
> <URL:mailto:mjp...@btinspamternet.com> wrote:
>
> > Ang about, aren't these a form SPAMS?
>
> That's called a signature. Your software is supposed to snip anything after
> the delimiter "dash dash space". Check the RFCs for info about sig files.
To be more accurate, it is supposed to snip the delimiter and anything
after it. But not for display...for followups.
--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325*4; PS/2s 9585, 8595, 9595*2, 8580*3,
P70...
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)
<URL:mailto:owain...@stirlingcity.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Don't suppose Mr MacNamara put his email address on his letter did he?
You would be correct in that assumption.
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)
<URL:mailto:mjp...@btinspamternet.com> wrote:
> AJL wrote:
> > There are reputable suppliers out there like Unifix who I always used to
> use. They will match Screwfix for price but give a better service.
>
> Ang about a mo, did you say "always used to use", "match the price", "better
> service"
Certainly.
> Well why do you use Screwfix in the first place ??
Because diversity of suppliers is important.
> And I assume by the fuss that Unifix won't send you any special offers or
> latest additions to their catalogue by email because you don't like these
> kind of spam's?.
Quite. My email facility is for the use of my customers as is my phone. The
use of either by spammers is not appreciated.
> You would just have to wait until they send you an updated hardcopy
> catalogue through the post, say every 3 months?
Which now get returned with a note that we don't deal with spammers.
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)
<URL:mailto:da...@NOswampieSPAM.org.uk> wrote:
> Not to mention the fact that clicking on his 'Sky' button on this site seems
> to put me into an infinite error loop.
Thanks for that. Must be something in the translation of URLs as I am hosted
now rather than redirected. It's time I sorted the site out, but this time
of the year it isn't really possible.
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)
<URL:mailto:rd...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> > That's called a signature. Your software is supposed to snip anything after
> > the delimiter "dash dash space". Check the RFCs for info about sig files.
>
> To be more accurate, it is supposed to snip the delimiter and anything
> after it. But not for display...for followups.
Yes you are quite right. Thanks for the expansion.
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)
<URL:mailto:dave....@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm slightly confused here. Screwfix only really do mail order, so without
> an up to date catalogue, I'm not sure how you'd deal with them easily? And
> surely the same applies to fliers or e-mails with special offers etc?
I have a catalogue collection to select my purchases. I specifically
selected "No email contact" on the initial webpages. That setting was
ignored. The reson no contact is wanted is that the email facility is
exclusively for customer contact and I know that I have accidentally lost
enquiries in the murk of general spam.
> Personally, I've no objection to e-mail 'fliers' from companies I deal
> with, and will indeed sometimes even take advantage of the offers.
I have no objection if they have been requested. To ride roughshod over the
customer's instruction is not on.
> Spam, to me, is completely unsolicited e-mail from someone I've had no
> dealings with or likely to have.
Fair enough, but spam is unsolicited email, regardless of an existing
relationship if no prior consent has been given.
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)
<URL:mailto:newsp...@familyfrench.co.uk> wrote:
> Fair enough, though I presume at some point the 'send me emails about
> promotions' option was selected?
No, that is the point. They ignored my original instruction when I provided
the address.
David Hearn
"Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:ant09090...@office.spews.co.uk...
> In article <br2m26$5vv$1...@news.ukfsn.org>, David Hearn
> <URL:mailto:da...@NOswampieSPAM.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > Not to mention the fact that clicking on his 'Sky' button on this site
seems
> > to put me into an infinite error loop.
>
> Thanks for that. Must be something in the translation of URLs as I am
hosted
> now rather than redirected. It's time I sorted the site out, but this time
> of the year it isn't really possible.
Yeah, I'd imagine that there's lots of people wanting to get Sky etc
installed ready for Christmas!
:)
D
Mike P
Mike P.
Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)
<URL:mailto:da...@NoSpamSwampieSpammer.Org.Uk> wrote:
> Yeah, I'd imagine that there's lots of people wanting to get Sky etc
> installed ready for Christmas!
At the moment we are having to turn business away sadly. I have another two
vans / engineers over last year and we still can't cope! Sky digital is only
a small part of the business though.
Tony Bryer
> Sure. As long as they pay for transmitting it. I like getting
> the catalogue in the post. Would I like getting it if it came
> postage owing? Damn, no.
Who do you think ultimately pays for the postage? (and carting
all the non-recycled catalogues away)
--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
Tony Bryer
> Look, I get between 700 and 1000 spams a day.
It's not very different here. But if you took out all the ones
that I could never be a customer of (US mortgages etc), all the
ones I am never likely to be a customer of (breast enlargement,
get rich quick etc) all the ones from unknown sources, and all
the ones from firms I have never been a customer of 99% of them
would disappear. The problem is not with bona fide companies
whose emails display genuine contact details.
The attitude here IMHO is the same as with speed cameras.
Catching genuinely unsafe drivers is hard work. So we leave them
to it and go for the easy pickings. You can bet your life that
the people most likely to fall foul of new anti-spam laws are not
those who generate most of the spam you and I get.
Simon Gardner
The other day I telephone ordered some items (cc purchase) from a firm and
they wanted my phone number. I gave them only my disposable mobile number.
They rang back a week later saying the order had arrived but on their
bank's instructions, they wouldn't despatch them without a landline number.
I said that company policy was absolutely not to give them a landline
number - even if (for the sake of argument) there was one.
Simon Gardner
"TonyK" <T...@SMP.com> wrote:
> How on earth do you cope if you get an unsolicited phone call!!
If you are on the national register, they are illegal under EU law. I
invariably sick the Information Commissioner (who is the enforcement
authority) on them.
Mike P
subscribed to by virtue of purchasing from them we on the newsgroup have to
put up with AJL's spams (advert for his web sites) every time he replies to
a post in this thread!.
Mike P.
Zymurgy
>
> > I'm generally very spam intolerant, but I don't think screwfix
> > are in the wrong here.
Well, at least it's (semi) targeted.
> They have been warned that any communications will be used in whatever
> manner I choose, including publishing in the newspapers if need be. So far
> the local paper has taken an interest, although I intend to offer the story
> to a national too. I need to find out how that may affect a court case
> first though. It should make an interesting test case!
Christ on a bike, haven't you anything better to do.
I hope you have pursued the purveyors of bargain viagra and dodgy porn
with similar vigour.
Cheers,
Paul.
Mike P
hardcopy catalogue through the post, say every 3 months?
>
spammers.
SO now you also tell us that you send the hardcopy catalogues back to the
senders, this just gets better!.
Tell me, when you send out leaflets, paper adverts, radio adverts and if you
reach the dizzy heights of success TV adverts will you expect the public to
send them all back to you, because those people did not ask for them, hey
they might send YOU a bill for wasting THEIR time!.
Mike P
Scott M
> For those DIYers who buy from Screwfix:
[snip]
Was it really worth posting *18* posts on this subject compared to the 1
second it takes to hit delete on a piece of unwanted email? As Dave
said, at least it was from a company you use.
--
Scott
Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
Suz
> In article <107091109...@doris.uk.clara.net>, Owain
> <URL:mailto:owain...@stirlingcity.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> > Don't suppose Mr MacNamara put his email address on his letter did he?
>
> You would be correct in that assumption.
Bet you a tenner it is macna...@screwfix.com . That's the way a lot of
major companies set up their addresses
Mike P
on the proterties!.
Mike P.
Dougie Nisbet
> [ ... ]
>
> The attitude here IMHO is the same as with speed cameras.
Don't forget gun control and abortion.
Dougie Nisbet
> In article <br2m26$5vv$1...@news.ukfsn.org>, David Hearn
> <URL:mailto:da...@NOswampieSPAM.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Not to mention the fact that clicking on his 'Sky' button on this site
>> seems to put me into an infinite error loop.
>
> Thanks for that. Must be something in the translation of URLs as I am
> hosted now rather than redirected. It's time I sorted the site out, but
> this time of the year it isn't really possible.
You probably don't have the time.
Suz
> on the proterties!.
>
snail mail either.
Mike P
not an email, I stand corrected.
Mike P
Mike Tomlinson
<mjp...@btinspamternet.com> writes
>Well said Dave, I'll second that.
Second what? It's conventional to quote some of the post you're
replying to, so as to provide context.
Phil
big snip
> I gather that you have mentioned the new legislation which comes into
force
> on 11 December 2003 although I am puzzled how this will bolster your case
> given that it is not retrospective. Even once the new legislation is in
> force, we will continue to send email marketing to our customers without
> their explicit prior consent ('opt-in'). The new regime allows us to send
> marketing emails which relate to the same or similar products to those
> purchased (i.e. in the case of Screfix Direct, our entire range) so long
as
> we offer a no-cost opportunity to 'opt-out' from receiving future
> e-mailings. In any event the new legislation relates only to personal
(not
> business) email addresses, and your business' email address would
therefore not be afforded the new protection.
>
Screwfix have an interesting interpretation of the legislation here. It is
true that the legislation is mainly aimed at private email and that
companies won't be allowed to email individuals unless they have opted in.
Business email addresses can be contacted as long as the email is related to
the business that has already taken place between the two parties and a
specific opt-in is not required, but only if those businesses were given an
opt-out option when their details were first collected and chose not to opt
out.
Phil
Mike P
directly above me?, just like this one!
Mike P.
Owain
| "Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics)" wrote
| > > Don't suppose Mr MacNamara put his email address on his letter did he?
| > You would be correct in that assumption.
| Bet you a tenner it is macna...@screwfix.com . That's the way a lot of
| major companies set up their addresses
If it's not macna...@screwfix.com it'll probably be
rmacn...@screwfix.com or r.mac...@screwfix.com
Owain
use...@isbd.co.uk
E-Mail addresses? It suggests a total misunderstanding of E-Mail and
the internet if TPTB think there is an actual difference.
--
Chris Green (cgr...@x-1.net)
Mike P
message of this sub thread or for that matter the subject of the whole post.
Don't worry about it, life is too short.
Mike P.
Dave Plowman
Mike P <mjp...@btinspamternet.com> wrote:
> But Nigel Tomlinson nor yourself referred to the quote in the original
> message of this sub thread or for that matter the subject of the whole
> post.
Not all newsreaders support threading, and not all like using it.
> Don't worry about it, life is too short.
--
*Go the extra mile. It makes your boss look like an incompetent slacker *
Dave Plowman dave....@argonet.co.uk London SW 12
RIP Acorn
David Hearn
<use...@isbd.co.uk> wrote in message
news:br6ntl$29kil5$3...@ID-61610.news.uni-berlin.de...
Well, I have a work email address and a private email address. When I leave
this company, I lose my work email address but keep the private email
address. Quite a clear differentiation between them in that respect -
though I agree, from Screwfix's point of view, all email addresses are
possibly business as they are customers and have a business relationship.
Also, knowing automatically which email address is private and which is
business isn't generally possible (can't assume .co.uk is just business). I
suspect there will be a new box to tick on signup forms "Is this a business
email address?".
D
use...@isbd.co.uk
> > > the business that has already taken place between the two parties and a
> > > specific opt-in is not required, but only if those businesses were given
> an
> > > opt-out option when their details were first collected and chose not to
> opt
> > > out.
> > >
> > More to the point how do you differentiate 'business' and 'individual'
> > E-Mail addresses? It suggests a total misunderstanding of E-Mail and
> > the internet if TPTB think there is an actual difference.
>
> Well, I have a work email address and a private email address. When I leave
> this company, I lose my work email address but keep the private email
> address. Quite a clear differentiation between them in that respect -
Er, yes, but no possible way to differentiate by looking at the
address. How are senders of unsolicited mail supposed to find out
whether an address is a 'business' address or an 'individual' address?
Not to mention that I'm not convinced that a your work E-mail address
is necessarily a business E-Mail address, if it's something like
'fredd....@some.company.co.uk' then it's still an individual being
addressed, apparently. Similarly I might perfectly well decide that
my personal/individual address is going to be ab...@isbd.co.uk, is
that an individual address or a business addres?
> though I agree, from Screwfix's point of view, all email addresses are
> possibly business as they are customers and have a business relationship.
> Also, knowing automatically which email address is private and which is
> business isn't generally possible (can't assume .co.uk is just business). I
> suspect there will be a new box to tick on signup forms "Is this a business
> email address?".
>
--
Chris Green (cgr...@x-1.net)
Mike P
then don't pass comments.
Life sucks eh!
Mike P.
John Rumm
> Rubbish. Spam is spam.
True - but there in resides the difficulty - as this thread illustrates,
many of us have slight variations in *our* definitions of spam...
Clasification of the obvious stuff (pils, enlargement/reduction of body
parts, phishing, hot young teens, 419 etc) is easy and most people agree.
Personally I don't class email from the likes of Screwfix or other
companies that I have an ongoing commercial relationship with as spam.
Obviously some people do.
(If I ask them to stop sending email - and they fail to do so after a
reasonable period - then I may class it as spam).
I suspect that if we could deal with the stuff that is universally
thought of as spam - the slightly grey area commercial email left would
be far less of an issue.
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Tony Bryer
> >The problem is not with bona fide companies
> >whose emails display genuine contact details.
>
No, the difference is that if Screwfix (or other reputable
company) send me an email they send *me* *one*, and then
probably once a month at most. The spameisters blast them out
to valid and invalid addresses alike: generally three or four
identical ones end up on my machine and they are only the ones
I actually see. I did have my mail configured to bounce all
invalid @sda.co.uk mails (mainly to put customers who had
entered a typo like sup...@sda.co.uk on notice that they had
done something wrong) but my ISP asked me to change this as the
bounces were overloading their mail server - probably because
having a three letter domain (all three letter combinations are
valid AIUI) people go for dictionary attacks. Now of course
because they are blackholed rather than bounced the senders
will assume they are valid addresses. I have no idea how much
traffic is generated this way but this is the problem, not the
likes of Screwfix.
And perhaps I am "a drooling retard" but my own guess is that
anti-spam laws are likely to be as effective against the people
who mass mail this stuff as speed cameras are against really
dangerous drivers and Part P will be against the real cowboy
electricians.
Dave Plowman
Mike P <mjp...@btinspamternet.com> wrote:
> If they don't know what the subject matter for the post & thread is about
> then don't pass comments.
You carry on being the odd one out. Do you drive on the right hand side of
the road too?
--
*Remember, no-one is listening until you fart.*
Mike P
Mike P.
Grunff
> This really gets up your nose doesn't it.
Not just his nose.
*plonk*
--
Grunff
Mike P
Jerry.
"Mike P" <mjp...@btinspamternet.com> wrote in message
news:br739s$q8v$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
> If they don't know what the subject matter for the post & thread is about
> then don't pass comments.
>
> Life sucks eh!
>
What are you talking about, certainly not the subject line, and are you
replying to Dave Plowman or another person who's post has not shown up on my
server ?...
Don't show your utter ignorance, take a bit of advice from people who know
how Usenet works.
Jerry.
> This really gets up your nose doesn't it.
>
You really are a man who like abusing himself in public !
Mike P
I'm not the first to use this method of answering a thread and I won't be
the last.
If there are people out there that haven't got the technology or
intelligence or knowledge or equipment to understand my original or
subsequent reply then yet again I say "LIFE SUCKS" (did you hear me
shouting).
And I see no mention of the subject line in your.
Just WHO do you people think you are?, dictating how I should wish to
participate, have I abused anyone, have I swore at anyone, have I give bad
advice, NO
If you just kept to the subject at hand like I did in my original reply in
this sub thread ("Well said Dave, I'll second that.") we wouldn't be this
far down the ladder.
I hope Andy Luckman (AJL Electronics) to whom I openly admit that I disagree
with his stand looks at this and realises that self appointed HITLER'S are
steering away from the core subject of his post.
Mike P.
Toby
> What is up with you people, just ignore me and that will be the end
> of it!
>
> intelligence or knowledge or equipment to understand my original or
> subsequent reply then yet again I say "LIFE SUCKS" (did you hear me
> shouting).
Did you have a traumatic childhood?
> Just WHO do you people think you are?, dictating how I should wish to
> participate, have I abused anyone, have I swore at anyone, have I
> give bad advice, NO
Do you listen to advice? Might help.
--
Toby.
'One day son, all this will be finished'
Grunff
> *plonk*
Hey, he's doing really well - that's two kills in a single thread!
--
Grunff
Phil
news:br6vuf$900$1...@ID-61610.news.uni-berlin.de...
legislation and how open to abuse it is. I would be inclined to say
Fredb...@hotmail.com is private, fredb...@bloggsindustries.co.uk most
likely business, but fr...@bloggs.co.uk could be anything. I think the draft
legislation had something to the effect of business addresses can be
emailed, but not if that email address was personally identifiable but I
think that has been dropped in the final legislation. That would basically
mean the only usable email addresses would be the sales@... and info@...
type addresses which are no use at all to market to.
In most instances, if the company has a postal address for the customer
which mentions a company name, they can be considered legitmate business
customers no matter what the email address - a great number of my company's
customers use aol, freeserve, hotmail etc as their business emails eg
fredbloggs...@hotmail.com. If the company peronsalises the emails
they send and includes that company name in the email (something like, Hi
Fred, As one of our valued customers we thought Bloggs Industries would love
to hear about...) then they would appear to be trying to ensure that they
only reach legitimate business customers.
Phil
Mike P
Mike P.
Mike P
"I quote"
>Andy 'Fuckwit' Luckman (AJL Electronics)
So that's acceptable????
Mike P.
Toby
Quoting - good boy.
Capitol
and top posting a reply only, is 98% of today's world for efficient answers
to a diy question!! If you really want to see the effects of moronic newsnet
bottom posting just try looking a long thread up on Google. Generally <1% of
the text downloaded is relevant to the original question!
Regards
Capitol
Mike P wrote in message ...