Pulling a main fuse safely

[Tim+]

This is possibly gonna sound a bit wimpish but I’ve never pulled a 100 amp
main fuse before but I’m beginning to think that it might be worth a shot
to try and “ reboot” my smart meter which has lost it’s ability to
communicate with my power company.

Literally been waiting months for an engineer’s visit and thinking that a
power cycle *might* sort it.

Obviously there’s a fair chance that it might not but if I can do it easily
and safely it seems worth a shot.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

[Andy Burns]

Tim+ wrote:

> it might be worth a shot to try and “ reboot” my smart meter which
> has lost it’s ability to communicate with my power company.

I would expect the smart meter to have a supercapacitor inside to let it
"ride-out" a power cut, obviously not enough power to run the 3G radio,
and flash any LEDs

[GB]

When a guy from Powergen came to replace the meter, I was impressed with
his preparation. He was standing in rubber boots on a dry floor. He
donned thick elbow length gauntlets and a crash helmet with a
polycarbonate visor. He told me to stand well back. Then he pulled out
the fuse, which was an anticlimax, as you'd expect.

He had, obviously, switched off the main switch in the consumer unit, as
well as (less obviously) getting me to disconnect every appliance in the
house.

Clearly excessive, but you can't die from too much safety.

Apparently, there is a chance that an old fuse holder/socket can shatter
when you pull the fuse. So, there is a chance that you could get some
massive arcing if the incoming conductors touch. I'm not sure where the
next line of overload protection is in the system, but if it's back at
the substation, it's probably capable of providing thousands of amps
before it trips.

[Chris Bacon]

On 11/05/2021 17:28, Tim+ wrote:

> This is possibly gonna sound a bit wimpish but I’ve never pulled a 100 amp
> main fuse before but I’m beginning to think that it might be worth a shot
> to try and “ reboot” my smart meter which has lost it’s ability to
> communicate with my power company.

How is it that you can access the fuse? They are normally sealed in a
box, AFAIK.

[Tim+]

Well I would have to break the seal….

[GB]

They are normally sealed with a little bit of wire. Cut that, and you
are in.

[GB]

On 11/05/2021 18:16, Chris Bacon wrote:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/b/Electric-Meter-Seals/4678/bn_7023504284

[Chris Bacon]

On 11/05/2021 18:20, GB wrote:
> On 11/05/2021 18:16, Chris Bacon wrote:
>> On 11/05/2021 17:28, Tim+ wrote:
>>> This is possibly gonna sound a bit wimpish but I’ve never pulled a
>>> 100 amp
>>> main fuse before
>>>

>> How is it that you can access the fuse? They are normally sealed in a
>> box, AFAIK.
>>
>
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/b/Electric-Meter-Seals/4678/bn_7023504284

Well, yes. However, the one cut off and lying at the bottom of the box
around my meter and associated gubbins has in imprinted logo from
whoever was the supplier then....

There's currently just a piece of wire passed through the seal lugs. No
seal. The bloke who changed the tails a) didn't put any seal at all on
the fuse cover, and b) put a piece of braided cable through the meter
connection cover, but did not crimp on a seal! Must have been
preoccupied....

Over the last decade or however long it's been, I have been wondering
whether I should notice it, and ask "if it's dangerous", and ask them to
fix it...

I must stress that this is actually the state of the thing now, and that
is exactly what happened, and that I have never stolen any electricity.

[Owain Lastname]

On Tuesday, 11 May 2021 at 17:35:54 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
> I would expect the smart meter to have a supercapacitor inside to let it
> "ride-out" a power cut, obviously not enough power to run the 3G radio,
> and flash any LEDs

I think, if I understood Big Clive correctly, it does have enough power to run the radio, enough to phone home and give a fraud alert, and apparently pulling the fuse on a smart meter (can) result in power people turning up rather promptly.

Owain

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

On 11/05/2021 17:28, Tim+ wrote:

does the fuse no have a lead seal ? ....

[Andy Burns]

Owain Lastname wrote:

> apparently pulling the fuse on a smart meter (can) result in power people turning up rather promptly.

I think that's one of those things that seems to play largely in Clive's
mind, similar to the supposed change to charging domestic customers for
apparent power instead of real power ... yes technically it could
measure it, but do ofgem even permit it?

[noth...@aolbin.com]

On 11/05/2021 17:28, Tim+ wrote:

Switch everything off beforehand and prepare yourself for the carrier
disintegrating as you pull it (it almost certainly won't do that but you
wouldn't want to find yourself hanging-on to a live bit if it did) with
rubber gloves and isolation. As others have said, there's some doubt
about whether pulling the fuse will have the desired effect.

[Andrew]

My ex-GPO trained telephone engineer cousin removed his company fuse
by waggling the fuse back slightly which allows a long thin screwdriver
to access the screw that hold the entire front of the fuse block in
place, allowing the fuse to be removed without breaking the seal.

[Tim+]

Really? That would be a result! Been waiting for months for someone to
come and sort it. ;-)

[Fredxx]

Why, what's the issue you have that needs sorting?

[Scott]

I thought it was a criminal offence to tamper with the seal. I think
you need to get permission first.

[Scott]

PS when we did it, Scottish Power arrived in less than an hour to re
place the seal. They also condemned the work my electrician had done
installing the tails and put it right. An added twist is that the SP
engineer did his apprenticeship with the company that originally
installed the fusebox (whose name was showing). He said it could have
been him.

[Tim+]

Read first post.

Tim

[Tricky Dicky]

When I replaced our consumer unit we had to do it in stages, the first was to get the meter moved out of the way as it partially covered the area in which the CU was going. The engineer from the DNO simply switched everything off MCBs and then main switch. At first he was going to use 16mm2 tails but noticed the cutout had a 100A fuse and used 25mm2 tails. He then simply pulled the main fuse after cutting the seals, the only safety measure he employed was to put a red plastic cover over the live lower spring prongs which seemed to clip in place. Having moved the meter and replaced the tails between cutout and meter he brought out 25mm2 tails from the meter and using a pair of Henly block type connectors joined the new tails from the meter to the 16mm2 tails in the CU.

Having seen that the cutout was sound and not likely to disintegrate when I replaced the CU I therefore had no qualms about pulling the main fuse. First thing I did was fit a stand alone main switch so that I never had to pull the fuse again. When we had the smart meter fitted the engineer did not seem bothered that there was no seal on the main fuse but did fit one when he finished and also fitted one on the lower terminal cover on the separate main switch I had fitted.

Richard

[Fredxx]

Yes, but why is it important for your meter to "communicate with my
power company"? It is s genuine question. I don't have one and would
probably pay lip-service to any communications to the power company.

What is the issue that is causing you strife? If it's real then write a
formal complaint, if necessary wait the 6 weeks for no reply and
complain to OFGEM.

Your power company doesn't care. It has fitted your smart meter and it
serves no further useful purpose other than to fulfil their quotas of
fitting them.

If you feel you have made a financial loss then write again asking for
compensation. Perhaps you might be able to quote expected savings from
owning one?

[newshound]

If that is true, nothing to be lost to my mind as it would achieve the
result. The main thing would be to switch off at the consumer unit
before pulling the fuse so that you are not breaking any significant
current at the fuse.

[Tim+]

Fredxx <fre...@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
> On 11/05/2021 21:20, Tim+ wrote:
>> Fredxx <fre...@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 11/05/2021 20:48, Tim+ wrote:
>>>> Owain Lastname <spuorg...@gowanhill.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, 11 May 2021 at 17:35:54 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>>>> I would expect the smart meter to have a supercapacitor inside to let it
>>>>>> "ride-out" a power cut, obviously not enough power to run the 3G radio,
>>>>>> and flash any LEDs
>>>>>
>>>>> I think, if I understood Big Clive correctly, it does have enough power
>>>>> to run the radio, enough to phone home and give a fraud alert, and
>>>>> apparently pulling the fuse on a smart meter (can) result in power people
>>>>> turning up rather promptly.
>>>>
>>>> Really? That would be a result! Been waiting for months for someone to
>>>> come and sort it. ;-)
>>>
>>> Why, what's the issue you have that needs sorting?
>>>
>>
>> Read first post.
>
> Yes, but why is it important for your meter to "communicate with my
> power company"? It is s genuine question. I don't have one and would
> probably pay lip-service to any communications to the power company.

Because it’s a smart meter and I’m on a “smart”, ie variable tariff. I’m
supposed to get billed different rates at different times of day. No data
transfer, no accurate billing.

>
> What is the issue that is causing you strife? If it's real then write a
> formal complaint, if necessary wait the 6 weeks for no reply and
> complain to OFGEM.

I am pursuing various routes including an official complaint. After 5
months of being given no clues as to when my issue might be resolved, I’m
getting a tad fed up.

>
> Your power company doesn't care. It has fitted your smart meter and it
> serves no further useful purpose other than to fulfil their quotas of
> fitting them.
>

They ought to care as I’m on a variable tariff and I’m almost certainly
under-paying them at the moment. They need the data to calculate my bill.
You can’t just “read” a smart meter manually and get months of half-hourly
consumption data.

[Fredxx]

I can well imagine.

>> Your power company doesn't care. It has fitted your smart meter and it
>> serves no further useful purpose other than to fulfil their quotas of
>> fitting them.
>>
>
> They ought to care as I’m on a variable tariff and I’m almost certainly
> under-paying them at the moment. They need the data to calculate my bill.
> You can’t just “read” a smart meter manually and get months of half-hourly
> consumption data.

If it's to your advantage they will be able to do very little about it.
If it's to their advantage then it's going to be an uphill struggle to
get any compensation.

Can you get a third party logging device to work out consumption and times?

[Steve Walker]

On 11/05/2021 17:57, GB wrote:
> On 11/05/2021 17:28, Tim+ wrote:
>> This is possibly gonna sound a bit wimpish but I’ve never pulled a 100
>> amp
>> main fuse before but I’m beginning to think that it might be worth a shot
>> to try and “ reboot” my smart meter which has lost it’s ability to
>> communicate with my power company.
>>
>> Literally been waiting months for an engineer’s visit and thinking that a
>> power cycle *might* sort it.
>>
>> Obviously there’s a fair chance that it might not but if I can do it
>> easily
>> and safely it seems worth a shot.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>
>
> When a guy from Powergen came to replace the meter, I was impressed with
> his preparation. He was standing in rubber boots on a dry floor. He
> donned thick elbow length gauntlets and a crash helmet with a
> polycarbonate visor. He told me to stand well back. Then he pulled out
> the fuse, which was an anticlimax, as you'd expect.

When they changed my fuse from a 60A to a 100A after the meter reader
noticed a new consumer unit (back in the '90s), the guy put on big
rubber gloves, removed the fuse, then used a big hammer to smash the
cast-iron enclosure, before fitting a new enclosure (rather like
Bakelite). Then he used a putty to seal the cable entry and fitted the
bigger fuse.

[Steve Walker]

When I needed access to the meter tails at the meter, the crimp was
loose enough to pull one side of the seal wire out and push it back in
again later.

[John Rumm]

On 11/05/2021 17:57, GB wrote:

> On 11/05/2021 17:28, Tim+ wrote:
>> This is possibly gonna sound a bit wimpish but I’ve never pulled a 100
>> amp
>> main fuse before but I’m beginning to think that it might be worth a shot
>> to try and “ reboot” my smart meter which has lost it’s ability to
>> communicate with my power company.
>>
>> Literally been waiting months for an engineer’s visit and thinking that a
>> power cycle *might* sort it.
>>
>> Obviously there’s a fair chance that it might not but if I can do it
>> easily
>> and safely it seems worth a shot.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>
>
> When a guy from Powergen came to replace the meter, I was impressed with
> his preparation. He was standing in rubber boots on a dry floor. He
> donned thick elbow length gauntlets and a crash helmet with a
> polycarbonate visor. He told me to stand well back. Then he pulled out
> the fuse, which was an anticlimax, as you'd expect.
>
> He had, obviously, switched off the main switch in the consumer unit, as
> well as (less obviously) getting me to disconnect every appliance in the
> house.
>
> Clearly excessive, but you can't die from too much safety.
>
> Apparently, there is a chance that an old fuse holder/socket can shatter
> when you pull the fuse.

Yup metalclad pre-war ones like:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:OldMetalCladCutout.jpg

They have ceramic fuse carrier inside that can shatter, and you could
end up pulling the life incoming into contact with the earthed enclosure.

> So, there is a chance that you could get some
> massive arcing if the incoming conductors touch.

Which depending on the prospective short circuit current at the
installation, could result in an arc explosion (think big fireball, and
lots of very hot vaporised metal laden plasma)

> I'm not sure where the
> next line of overload protection is in the system, but if it's back at
> the substation, it's probably capable of providing thousands of amps
> before it trips.

Each phase might be be fused at say 600A - however as with all fusing,
the fuse does not actually limit the short circuit current - only the
duration of the over current.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[Mark Carver]

On 11/05/2021 17:28, Tim+ wrote:
> This is possibly gonna sound a bit wimpish but I’ve never pulled a 100 amp
> main fuse before but I’m beginning to think that it might be worth a shot
> to try and “ reboot” my smart meter which has lost it’s ability to
> communicate with my power company.
>

Mine did that in January. My power company OVO were utterly useless,
kept sending me  emails with questions about LED lamp flashing, but
never actually sent anyone to sort.
Then suddenly last month it burst into life again, all by itself.

[Martin Brown]

On 11/05/2021 17:28, Tim+ wrote:
> This is possibly gonna sound a bit wimpish but I’ve never pulled a 100 amp
> main fuse before but I’m beginning to think that it might be worth a shot
> to try and “ reboot” my smart meter which has lost it’s ability to
> communicate with my power company.
>

> Literally been waiting months for an engineer’s visit and thinking that a
> power cycle *might* sort it.

It almost certainly won't. But you shouldn't have to wait long for a
power cut induced by a thunderstorm given the current weather. We had a
strike 100m from the house. My modem had a fat spark out of its cable
and my neighbours was completely fried as were various bedside clocks.

I was very impressed that mine survived and equally unimpressed with the
surge arrester that was supposed to be protecting it.

>
> Obviously there’s a fair chance that it might not but if I can do it easily
> and safely it seems worth a shot.

It is a waste of time and would involve tampering with the electricity
board seal and risking some exciting electrical behaviour. The next fuse
or cutout up the system will source a fairly high multiple of 100A.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Unknown]

Owain Lastname presented the following explanation :

That part, at least, might be worth testing :-)

I doubt puling the cutout fuse will reset the meter.

[Unknown]

Chris Bacon was thinking very hard :

> How is it that you can access the fuse? They are normally sealed in a box,
> AFAIK.

No, they are usually easily accessible, but sealed by a wire/lead seal
against being tampered with.

[Spike]

Thanks for the warning about linking smart meters and variable tariffs.
It sounds overly complex an issue.

The other thought that springs to mind is that pulling the main fuse
could by some route or other land you with more trouble than you already
have. Leave well alone, go the complaint route. It looks like you might
anyway have to negotiate for the cost of your electricity over the comms
blackout period, and any compensation that might be due.

The solution to your problem is probably less technical than bureaucratic.

--
Spike

[Robin]

We have never had a variable tariff but the few I looked into /all/ had
provision in the contract for what happens if /for any reason/ they
can't get half hourly smart meter data. Does yours?


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

[Andy Burns]

Robin wrote:

> We have never had a variable tariff but the few I looked into /all/ had
> provision in the contract for what happens if /for any reason/ they
> can't get half hourly smart meter data.

"Agile Octopus is a beta product [...] some things may not work first
time, installations and processes may take longer than we'd like, and on
occasion data issues with smart meters can take significant time to fix
or prevent things working at all"

[Robin]

you don't have the following (which is still online)?

"In the absence of half hourly smart meter data, we will charge you as
we would a customer on our Flexible Octopus variable tariff, based on
typical consumption patterns (known as “Profile 1”)."

https://octopus.energy/blog/terms-conditions-agile-go/

[Brian Gaff (Sofa)]

Are you not in deep doggy doo if you brak a seal and do this?
I'm sure there has to be a cheap insulated tool to do this in any case.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Tim+" <tim.d...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1265175695.642442954.420...@news.individual.net...

> This is possibly gonna sound a bit wimpish but I've never pulled a 100 amp
> main fuse before but I'm beginning to think that it might be worth a shot

> to try and " reboot" my smart meter which has lost it's ability to

> communicate with my power company.
>
> Literally been waiting months for an engineer's visit and thinking that a
> power cycle *might* sort it.
>

> Obviously there's a fair chance that it might not but if I can do it
> easily
> and safely it seems worth a shot.
>

[Brian Gaff (Sofa)]

Yes, besides it could actually have a faulty modem and that will not respond
to anything orther than a change out. I guess you could get legal on them.

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

"Andy Burns" <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote in message
news:ifvq36...@mid.individual.net...

>
> Tim+ wrote:
>
>> it might be worth a shot to try and " reboot" my smart meter which
>> has lost it's ability to communicate with my power company.
>

[Brian Gaff (Sofa)]

Yes this is how many of the folk who are unaware of things get caught when
setting up their pot gardening projects in the loft.

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

"Owain Lastname" <spuorg...@gowanhill.com> wrote in message
news:a81b2dc0-1113-4762...@googlegroups.com...

> On Tuesday, 11 May 2021 at 17:35:54 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:

>> I would expect the smart meter to have a supercapacitor inside to let it
>> "ride-out" a power cut, obviously not enough power to run the 3G radio,
>> and flash any LEDs
>

> I think, if I understood Big Clive correctly, it does have enough power to
> run the radio, enough to phone home and give a fraud alert, and apparently
> pulling the fuse on a smart meter (can) result in power people turning up
> rather promptly.
>

> Owain
>

[charles]

In article <ig1jnk...@mid.individual.net>,

I see in today's Times that Octopus had a £61 million loss last year.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Theo]

Owain Lastname <spuorg...@gowanhill.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, 11 May 2021 at 17:35:54 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
> > I would expect the smart meter to have a supercapacitor inside to let it
> > "ride-out" a power cut, obviously not enough power to run the 3G radio,
> > and flash any LEDs
>
> I think, if I understood Big Clive correctly, it does have enough power to
> run the radio, enough to phone home and give a fraud alert, and apparently
> pulling the fuse on a smart meter (can) result in power people turning up
> rather promptly.

It will try to phone home, but we've established that it isn't communicating
so I'm not sure that will work.

Pulling the cutout is something electricians do when doing a consumer unit
change when there's no isolator. It doesn't result in a SWAT team
descending from the DNO. In theory you are supposed to get the DNO to do
it, but life is too short to hang around on site for that.

The meter will phone home to the supplier not the DNO anyway - depending on
how dozy the supplier is to respond to that. It seems like they're
sufficiently dozy to not respond to you, and so perhaps too dozy to respond
to a cut? I don't know what level of data sharing there is between supplier
and DNO.

From the meter's point of view it can't tell the difference between a cutout
pull and a power cut - it's only the network that knows whether the cut is
just you or a whole phase/substation/etc. So it's not a trivial task to
tell the difference between tampering and a power cut. (since the cut could
be just on your overhead cable drop).

I doubt they are smart enough to action anything based on the cut messages,
although maybe the local DNO person might pop round to check everything is
OK if they have nothing better to do?

Theo

[Unknown]

Brian Gaff (Sofa) submitted this idea :

> Are you not in deep doggy doo if you brak a seal and do this?
> I'm sure there has to be a cheap insulated tool to do this in any case.

The correct equipment is thick rubber insulated gloves, a face sheild
and maybe body protection, but I cannot say I have ever seen them
wearing this much stuff, ever. I used to work with much higher voltages
and currents, the only PPE usually a pair of 'gardening gloves'.

[John Rumm]

The fuse has no bearing on the amount of current that is available -
that is a function of the supply loop impedance. All a fuse can do is
interrupt the flow of current some time after the fault becomes
apparent. So if you have a loop impedance ~ 0.04 ohms[1], then you will
get close to 6000A fault current. That will be likely enough to take out
the substation fuse for that phase - but it might take it a tenth of a
second. (in which time it could deliver 3.6MJ of energy!)

[1] That would be pretty low unless very close to a sub station or in an
area with a very high capacity supply. 0.1 to 0.3 ohms would be more
typical.

[GB]

On 12/05/2021 08:23, John Rumm wrote:

>> Clearly excessive, but you can't die from too much safety.
>>
>> Apparently, there is a chance that an old fuse holder/socket can
>> shatter when you pull the fuse.
>
> Yup metalclad pre-war ones like:
>
> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:OldMetalCladCutout.jpg

Ours was installed in 1971. Some sort of plastic, clearly in good nick
still. So, I think his risk was small.

Nevertheless, I don't blame the guy for taking precautions, although I
was a bit surprised at the time.

[Chris J Dixon]

Theo wrote:

>Pulling the cutout is something electricians do when doing a consumer unit
>change when there's no isolator. It doesn't result in a SWAT team
>descending from the DNO. In theory you are supposed to get the DNO to do
>it, but life is too short to hang around on site for that.

After I pulled the fuse to change a CU some considerable years
ago, there was an issue that I didn't spot affecting the contact
surfaces. Subsequently I experienced occasional supply dips, and
eventually noticed overheating of the fuseholder.

They were round to sort it in very short order.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
ch...@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

[Tim+]

Was it after a power cut? ;-)

This self sorting phenomenon seems quite common and I’ve often wondered if
it’s been a power cycling caused by a brief power cut that is “rebooting”
the modem.

Anyhow, it would seem that Octopus must spy on Usenet as just this morning
I’ve had an email with dates for an engineer’s visit. (I had also
badgered them yet again by email so the Usenet spy theory might not be
correct.). ;-)

[Tim+]

Spike <Aero....@mail.invalid> wrote:
> On 11/05/2021 20:53, Tim+ wrote:
>> Fredxx <fre...@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>> What is the issue that is causing you strife? If it's real then write a
>>> formal complaint, if necessary wait the 6 weeks for no reply and
>>> complain to OFGEM.
>
>> I am pursuing various routes including an official complaint. After 5
>> months of being given no clues as to when my issue might be resolved, I’m
>> getting a tad fed up.
>
>>> Your power company doesn't care. It has fitted your smart meter and it
>>> serves no further useful purpose other than to fulfil their quotas of
>>> fitting them.
>
>> They ought to care as I’m on a variable tariff and I’m almost certainly
>> under-paying them at the moment. They need the data to calculate my bill.
>> You can’t just “read” a smart meter manually and get months of half-hourly
>> consumption data.
>
> Thanks for the warning about linking smart meters and variable tariffs.
> It sounds overly complex an issue.

Well my present tariff is the modern equivalent of Economy 7 and if you
have an EV it’s definitely worthwhile being on a variable tariff.

If you don’t have a significant load that you can timeshift then probably
not worth the bother.

As I have an EV it very definitely is worthwhile.

[Mark Carver]

On 12/05/2021 13:03, Tim+ wrote:
> Mark Carver <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 11/05/2021 17:28, Tim+ wrote:
>>> This is possibly gonna sound a bit wimpish but I’ve never pulled a 100 amp
>>> main fuse before but I’m beginning to think that it might be worth a shot
>>> to try and “ reboot” my smart meter which has lost it’s ability to
>>> communicate with my power company.
>>>
>> Mine did that in January. My power company OVO were utterly useless,
>> kept sending me  emails with questions about LED lamp flashing, but
>> never actually sent anyone to sort.
>> Then suddenly last month it burst into life again, all by itself.
>>
> Was it after a power cut? ;-)

Ha, no, my router has been up since the last known power cut on July 7th
last year, so no, that didn't do it !

> This self sorting phenomenon seems quite common and I’ve often wondered if
> it’s been a power cycling caused by a brief power cut that is “rebooting”
> the modem.
>
> Anyhow, it would seem that Octopus must spy on Usenet as just this morning
> I’ve had an email with dates for an engineer’s visit. (I had also
> badgered them yet again by email so the Usenet spy theory might not be
> correct.). ;-)
>

Well that's interesting because given the poor CS over this, I'm
considering switching to Octopus !

Perhaps not then ! ?

[Mark Carver]

On 12/05/2021 12:40, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>
> After I pulled the fuse to change a CU some considerable years
> ago, there was an issue that I didn't spot affecting the contact
> surfaces. Subsequently I experienced occasional supply dips, and
> eventually noticed overheating of the fuseholder.
>
> They were round to sort it in very short order.

I had  a new DNO point installed 18 months ago. As part of that they
fitted a double pole 100 A switch (downstream of the meter, but
obviously upstream of the CU)
Is that a new policy to avoid folk 'meddling'  with the fuse  ?

[Theo]

Mark Carver <mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> I had  a new DNO point installed 18 months ago. As part of that they
> fitted a double pole 100 A switch (downstream of the meter, but
> obviously upstream of the CU)
> Is that a new policy to avoid folk 'meddling'  with the fuse  ?

I'm not sure if it's policy, but it's good practice and simple to do.
Electricians can fit an isolator if the cutout is removed, as can the
supplier (who own the meter). It would seem to make sense to do it as part
of a new install.

Theo

[John Rumm]

Which you can cut off, and no one will seem to care...

[Mark Carver]

I'm trying to remember now whether it was actually the meter man from
OVO who fitted it, or the DNO.
It might have been the meter man, (seeing as his bit was downstream of
the 100 A fuse)
I didn't take a photo between the DNO lads leaving, and Mr OVO arriving.

Anyway, it will prove very useful at some point in the future.

[Adam Funk]

On 2021-05-12, John Rumm wrote:

> On 12/05/2021 09:29, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>> Chris Bacon was thinking very hard :
>>> How is it that you can access the fuse? They are normally sealed in a
>>> box, AFAIK.
>>
>> No, they are usually easily accessible, but sealed by a wire/lead seal
>> against being tampered with.
>
> Which you can cut off, and no one will seem to care...

Is that because theft of electricity is a lot less common than it used
to be?

[Rod Speed]

"Adam Funk" <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote in message
news:s92vmhx...@news.ducksburg.com...

I would have thought it was more common now with cannabis grow houses.

Tho I spose those wouldn’t be hard to find when
you are suspicious when you see the seal cut off.

[Pancho]

On 11/05/2021 17:28, Tim+ wrote:
> This is possibly gonna sound a bit wimpish but I’ve never pulled a 100 amp
> main fuse before but I’m beginning to think that it might be worth a shot
> to try and “ reboot” my smart meter which has lost it’s ability to
> communicate with my power company.
>

> Literally been waiting months for an engineer’s visit and thinking that a
> power cycle *might* sort it.
>

> Obviously there’s a fair chance that it might not but if I can do it easily
> and safely it seems worth a shot.
>

> Tim
>

I've got the same, apart from I had ignored it up until today, but it
explains why my Home Display stopped displaying electricity.

Still works for gas, just not leccy. Stopped working about 5 months ago.
The actual meter display shows a sensible number. I just get estimated
electricity bills and no electricity figure on the Home Display.

Strange:

<https://help.bulb.co.uk/hc/en-us/articles/360030097111-Can-I-get-smart-meters-if-my-current-meters-are-more-than-10-metres-apart->

"Gas meters send their readings through the electricity meter. When
they're more than 10metres (32 feet) apart, the gas meter won't be able
to communicate with Bulb or the smart network."

So the electricity box is responsible for networking. Mine can report
gas figures just not its own internal figures.

Smells like a software bug, rather than network issues. Might be a bug
at Bulb, rather than my meter.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <odpl9g19gt0sn5v70...@4ax.com>,
Scott <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On 11 May 2021 17:18:10 GMT, Tim+ <tim.d...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >Chris Bacon <chris....@maildrop.cc> wrote:
> >> On 11/05/2021 17:28, Tim+ wrote:
> >>> This is possibly gonna sound a bit wimpish but I’ve never pulled a 100 amp
> >>> main fuse before but I’m beginning to think that it might be worth a shot
> >>> to try and “ reboot” my smart meter which has lost it’s ability to
> >>> communicate with my power company.
> >>

> >> How is it that you can access the fuse? They are normally sealed in a
> >> box, AFAIK.
> >>

> >Well I would have to break the seal….
> >
> I thought it was a criminal offence to tamper with the seal. I think
> you need to get permission first.

It's a criminal offence to steal electricity. And they'd know if the seal
was removed to do this.

--
*I have plenty of talent and vision. I just don't care.

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Peeler]

On Thu, 13 May 2021 19:14:11 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

>> Is that because theft of electricity is a lot less common than it used
>> to be?
>
> I would have thought it was more common now with cannabis grow houses.

Of course, you senile auto-contradicting sociopath! You ALWAYS think and say
the opposite of ANYTHING anyone says! <BG>

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing the auto-contradicting senile cretin:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID: <XnsA97071CF43...@85.214.115.223>

[Mark Carver]

On 13/05/2021 10:18, Pancho wrote:
>
> "Gas meters send their readings through the electricity meter. When
> they're more than 10metres (32 feet) apart, the gas meter won't be
> able to communicate with Bulb or the smart network."

My electric smart meter, and dumb gas meter are about 8 or 9 metres
apart, but on the same wall, so there's 8 or 9 metres worth of bricks,
insulation, and breeze blocks between the two.  OVO want to upgrade the
gas meter to a smart one, but I'm not sure whether the comms would work
anyway ?  Anyway, I keep rejecting the idea, telling them I want to
witness a full 12 month period of reliable operation from the electric one.

[John Rumm]

Probably not. More likely to be a combination of the supplier using
historical data and algorithms to spot fraud rather than fuse seals, and
the meter readers no longer technically clued up people who are part and
parcel of the organisation actually responsible for billing.

(there is also a slight distinction between meter seals and fuse seals,
where the latter will be more broken commonly anyway for reasons of
isolation of supply).

[newshound]

Mine is similar. The leccy board man is of course doing it all the time,
unlike you. Also, he'll be aware that if he has an accident while not
wearing the stipulated PPE it will screw his chance of compensation (and
could get him fired).

[Adam Funk]

On 2021-05-13, John Rumm wrote:

> On 13/05/2021 08:49, Adam Funk wrote:
>> On 2021-05-12, John Rumm wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/05/2021 09:29, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
>>>> Chris Bacon was thinking very hard :
>>>>> How is it that you can access the fuse? They are normally sealed in a
>>>>> box, AFAIK.
>>>>
>>>> No, they are usually easily accessible, but sealed by a wire/lead seal
>>>> against being tampered with.
>>>
>>> Which you can cut off, and no one will seem to care...
>>
>> Is that because theft of electricity is a lot less common than it used
>> to be?
>
> Probably not. More likely to be a combination of the supplier using
> historical data and algorithms to spot fraud rather than fuse seals, and
> the meter readers no longer technically clued up people who are part and
> parcel of the organisation actually responsible for billing.
>
> (there is also a slight distinction between meter seals and fuse seals,
> where the latter will be more broken commonly anyway for reasons of
> isolation of supply).

Good points, thanks.