Washing Machine in Cellar: pumping waste

[RJH]

Looking to move the washing machine into a reasonably dry cellar, and
need a method of pumping the waste. Looking at this:

http://www.sanifloproducts.co.uk/products/Saniflo-Products-Sanivite.html

but the 60C might be a problem on the rare occasions we do a boil wash
- I've emailed them. Also, £300 for a glorified pump/sump seems a bit steep.

Any experiences/suggestions?

Cheers, Rob

[Muddymike]

How fussy are you about appearances?
You could just have it empty into a drum containing a plumbed in sump pump.

Mike

[Brian Gaff]

Yes, I remember this being done some years ago at a block of flats with a
wash room in the cellar. I doubt it would pass the regs nowadays, but in
this case I gues he would not care!

Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Muddymike" <mudd...@mattishall.org.uk> wrote in message
news:b9KdnZHnVpZvTdbP...@brightview.com...

[Robin]

> How fussy are you about appearances?

Plus how fussy are you about the consequences if the pump for the waste
fails but the w/m continues merrily pumping through its wash and rinse
cycles? (Former colleague found the consequences of a blocked waste
were pretty dire.)

> You could just have it empty into a drum containing a plumbed in sump
> pump.

Which offers a fail safe(r) mode. Machines vary in how much water they
use but IIRC its typically now below 100 litres a cycle so a tank (water
butt?) capable of capturing a cycle's worth shouldn't break the bank if
there's room and no aesthetic objection.
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

[fred]

In article <l2go7v$1lo$1...@dont-email.me>, Robin <rb...@hotmail.com> writes

You could get away with a much smaller vessel if you installed a fail
safe float switch to cut the power to the washer in case of pump
failure. Say a 10 or 20l vessel, just a little larger than a machine
full should do to give the pump time to clear the fast deluge from an
emptying machine.

Overall, it sounds like a nice idea.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .

[Tim Watts]

DIY:

Fibreglass (GRP) tank, small cube.

Float switch to run attached pump.

2nd higher float switch to cut power to washing machine in the event the
tank pump fails.

I suspect a central heating pump might do the job quite well if mounted
lower than the tank (to overcome priming issues, assuming the lift required
is within its capacity).

If not, you could even consider a larger tank and thermostat so pump does
not run until the contents have cooled.

Lots of possibilties...
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

[Onetap]

On Wednesday, October 2, 2013 11:36:24 AM UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:

> I suspect a central heating pump might do the job quite well if mounted
>
> lower than the tank (to overcome priming issues, assuming the lift required
>
> is within its capacity).

Not recommended, it would jam at random intervals.

CH pumps are nearly all canned rotor types, which means the motor rotor is immersed in the fluid being pumped. The draw-back is that there are very small clearances between the motor's stator and rotor and any bits of crud will jam the rotor.

That's why many CH pumps are found to be jammed at 'switch-on-the heating' time, about this time of year, if you have a CH system with a corrosion problem.

A pump with a separate motor would be better for this application, or use a surplus/free CH pump and expect occasional stoppages.

[b...@blaukopf.com]

On Wednesday, October 2, 2013 8:30:28 AM UTC+1, RJH wrote:
> http://www.sanifloproducts.co.uk/products/Saniflo-Products-Sanivite.html
>
> but the 60C might be a problem on the rare occasions we do a boil wash
>
> - I've emailed them. Also, £300 for a glorified pump/sump seems a bit steep.

Grundfos Sololift2 will do 90C for 30 minutes, but isn't going to be a whole lot cheaper.

No experience with it.

[RJH]

On 02/10/2013 10:15, Robin wrote:
>> How fussy are you about appearances?
>

Not at all.

> Plus how fussy are you about the consequences if the pump for the waste
> fails but the w/m continues merrily pumping through its wash and rinse
> cycles? (Former colleague found the consequences of a blocked waste
> were pretty dire.)
>

Er, fairly fussy!

>> You could just have it empty into a drum containing a plumbed in sump
>> pump.
>

I have in fact done this before, about 10 years back. In the absence of
a utility room I think it's a great solution. I used a dirty water sump
pump with valve, and the cheapest vessel was a 100L rain water plastic
barrel. In theory that should have worked well, but:

1. The pump failed once. The replacement was OK. I suspect washing
machine water is a particularly harsh liquid.
2. The water left in the barrel, a few inches, turned into washing
powder and dirty water sludge, and the smell was something else. Having
the water butt meant I could drain it off, and the occasional rinse
cycle sorted it out.
3. The barrel was fine except for being a little small diameter-wise -
the pump float snagged a couple of times. Small footprint though.
3. It all felt a bit Heath Robinson - hence the Saniflow enquiry.

Notwithstanding these problems I'm happy to go this route again, and Ł50
is better than Ł300.

Any pump suggestions?


--
Cheers, Rob

[RJH]

Thanks - the C3, about £250.

The Saniflow will only go to 60C, confirmed just now by the
manufacturer. Surprised by that TBH.

--
Cheers, Rob

[damdu...@yahoo.co.uk]

I did something similar for a machine installed in a large boat .
Needed about a 12ft lift. There wasn't really room for a sump type
arrangement and sump pumps I had previously found needed cleaning
regularly if they weren't to fail just when they are needed.
What I did was to remove the impeller from the machines own pump but
leave the housing in place so it could still catch loose coins etc in
the way it should. The power supply for the pump was disconnected and
then attached to relay . This switched a Stuart Turner pump with a
bronze housing and impeller which was mounted immediately adjacent to
the machine. Pipe from the pump onwards was done in 22mm copper ,the
pump already had a ball bearing type non return valve but I installed
another in the outlet pipe and an isolation valve as well so all could
be cleaned with minimum water running back. The system worked well,the
things that often cause pumpout failure such as coins ,screws etc
could still be removed from the original pump housing through the
access on the front . Used a wet capable vacuum to empty the water but
you usually have to do that anyway unless you have a suitable floor.

G.Harman

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

On Wed, 2 Oct 2013 08:52:07 +0100, "Muddymike"
<mudd...@mattishall.org.uk> wrote:

>You could just have it empty into a drum containing a plumbed in sump pump.

Excellent idea.
You'd want it around 60L or so, which is still trivially liftable when
empty, for sooner or later you will need to take the empty upstairs
into the yard to clean it out. Left uncleaned it will stink after a
while.
60L HDPE drums are plentiful and cheap, but seem to be in only one
colour; blue.

[Arfa Daily]

"RJH" <patch...@gmx.com> wrote in message
news:Of-dnd-3LNkJVtbP...@bt.com...

In the burger joint, we have to pump the washing up sink waste to ceiling
height to get it over a door. We use this

http://www.plumbworld.co.uk/hydrolux-combi-ultraflow-23-20573

as a grey water pump, and it works very well. We have been through a couple
of them, but then we are using it almost continuously in a commercial
environment, which it's not really designed for. It says that the maximum
water temp is 90 deg, which is not far off boiling, and I would have thought
that by the time the washing machine was pumping out, the water even from a
boil wash would be below that. It also says that it is suitable for use with
a washing machine so ... ??

At the moment it is only reduced a bit, but often, it is on permanent offer
at 50 quid cheaper than that, so depending on how fast you want to get on
with this project, might be worth hanging on for a bit ? The installation
instructions are on the page as a pdf, and this is quite a comprehensive
document about the unit as I recall

Arfa

[Arfa Daily]

"RJH" <patch...@gmx.com> wrote in message

news:yM2dncnBVI502dHP...@bt.com...

See my reply about the Plumbworld one

Arfa


>
> --
> Cheers, Rob
>

[meow...@care2.com]

On Wednesday, October 2, 2013 8:26:14 PM UTC+1, damdu...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

A neater more reliable solution. (I don't see a need to mod the built-in pump.) The downside is the waste pipe volume will return into the machine when pumping stops.


NT

[Richard Tobin]

In article <Of-dnd-3LNkJVtbP...@bt.com>,

RJH <patch...@gmx.com> wrote:

>but the 60C might be a problem on the rare occasions we do a boil wash
>- I've emailed them.

Don't most washing machines add cold water before draining high
temperature washes? Ours seemed to the last time I did one.

-- Richard

[damdu...@yahoo.co.uk]

On Thu, 3 Oct 2013 02:33:24 -0700 (PDT), meow...@care2.com wrote:

>On Wednesday, October 2, 2013 8:26:14 PM UTC+1, damdu...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>> On Wed, 02 Oct 2013 08:30:28 +0100, RJH <gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> >Looking to move the washing machine into a reasonably dry cellar, and
>> >need a method of pumping the waste. Looking at this:
>> >http://www.sanifloproducts.co.uk/products/Saniflo-Products-Sanivite.html
>>
>

>> I did something similar for a machine installed in a large boat .
>> Needed about a 12ft lift. There wasn't really room for a sump type
>> arrangement and sump pumps I had previously found needed cleaning
>> regularly if they weren't to fail just when they are needed.
>> What I did was to remove the impeller from the machines own pump but
>> leave the housing in place so it could still catch loose coins etc in
>> the way it should. The power supply for the pump was disconnected and
>> then attached to relay . This switched a Stuart Turner pump with a
>> bronze housing and impeller which was mounted immediately adjacent to
>> the machine.

>A neater more reliable solution. (I don't see a need to mod the built-in pump.) The downside is the waste pipe volume will return into the machine when pumping stops.
>
>
>NT

To be honest it seemed no worse than an unmodified machine in that
respect, the non return valve on the pump plus the one in the pipe
work a few inches along it stopped most water from running back.
You are right in that it wasn't probably necessary to mod the machines
own pump but at the time it was easier to reconnect the wires to the
relay rather join some more in. On an old machine that didn't have
electronics and circuit boards but mechanical switches and cams I may
well have not bothered with a relay but such machines must be long in
the tooth now.
My machine was out of any warranty period so could be tinkered with
which would be another consideration.

G.Harman

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <Of-dnd-3LNkJVtbP...@bt.com>,

My dishwasher is spec'ed to do this without the addition of anything
external. It's got a standard pump-out pump - the only extra bit of
design for this is a non-return rubber flap. If you can find a suitable
non-return rubber flap valve, your washing machine will probably manage
to pump out. My one reservation would be if the trickle of water generated
by spinning would be enough to keep the pump primed (which is not an issue
for a dishwasher).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[Vir Campestris]

I've read through this thread, and it occurs to me what you should do is
have a barrel big enough for all the water.

You then let it cool before you pump it.

This means (a) you can use a cold-water pump and (b) you save all the
waste heat, as it ends up in the cellar.

Andy

[Weatherlawyer]

On Thursday, 3 October 2013 09:05:03 UTC+1, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
>
> You'd want it around 60L or so, which is still trivially liftable when
> empty, for sooner or later you will need to take the empty upstairs
> into the yard to clean it out.
> Left uncleaned it will stink after a while.

Or, if it had a pump attached to it, he could occasionally swill it in situ.