So, what is the deal on plasterboard
Janek Czekaj
Every DIY book that I have read, every one of those DIY leaflets on putting
up plasterboard that you find in places like B&Q or Wickes, etc, tells me
that you put the plasterboard up, you taper the joints and then you apply a
coat of finishing plaster. Same appears to be the case for plasterboard on
walls.
But, here in this ng, there are people now saying that you simply do not do
this - all you do is put up your plasterboard ceiling, taper the joints and
then, well, apart from a lick of paint that's it? Surely this can't be the
case? Or am I just behind the times?
Surely you can't get a good finish by just painting on plasterboard????
Thanks for any info,
Jan.
drew
"Janek Czekaj" <janekNOSPAM...@hotmail.NOSPAMcom> wrote in message
news:trkl9.3443$YE1....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
Drew.M
Roger
Painting it is fine, especially if you use a roller because the texture
hides any joins. Ask any volume housebuilder. As I said before,
there's no plaster anywhere in my house (not one of Bovis'
best,admittedly, but the previous Redrow house I had was the same).
drew
"Roger" <nos...@here.net> wrote in message news:3D95D54...@here.net...
LOL! did you buy the House half price.? or are you sure you moved into the
right House.
Drew.M
Phil Addison
<janekNOSPAM...@hotmail.NOSPAMcom> wrote:
>Surely you can't get a good finish by just painting on plasterboard????
If it's put up neatly and properly taped and filled the appearance is fine. I
deliberately say appearance because that is all that is fine. The surface is
easily damaged, and should anyone decide to wallpaper it, imagine what would
happen when the time comes to scrape the paper off to re-decorate - gouges
straight into the plaster-board! I had a new house once that was built like
this, and finished with emulsion. I hadn't realised what was going on until
after I parted with my money, so although I had long 'discussions' with the
builder there was no way he was going to skim it unless I paid extra.
--
Phil Addison
uk.d-i-y FAQ maintainer. http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/
TonyK
"Janek Czekaj" <janekNOSPAM...@hotmail.NOSPAMcom> wrote in message
news:trkl9.3443$YE1....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
In the ideal world joints would be taped and the whole board skimmed by a
master craftsman to a perfect finish. In the real world joints are taped,
skimmed with EasiFill (by the wife), sanded to a smooth/even/perfect(heh)
finish and then 3 coats of "heritage colour scheme" emulsion slapped on. The
final result is as good as you'll get anywhere in the new build market, if
not better. Anyone disagrees come look at my laundry room... dare ya!!
Tony
drew
"TonyK" <Z...@Z.Com> wrote in message news:an4nqn$auk$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
Drew.M
TonyK
"drew" <r...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Ftll9.428$no.95...@news-text.cableinet.net...
Now how did you know about that...
Tony
Andy Dingley
<janekNOSPAM...@hotmail.NOSPAMcom> wrote:
>you put the plasterboard up, you taper the joints and then you apply a
>coat of finishing plaster.
You don't "taper" the joints, you tape them and then (optionally) skim
over the lot. "Taper edge" plasterboard is made that way at the
factory, for when you're going to tape the joints and mud over just
the joints alone. If you tape the edges of square board but don't
skim the whole board, you get a raised stripe that looks like
snecking.
Lining paper over plasterboard and then paint is a reputable way of
finishing it. Needs a little care on stripping, but then so does old
"blown" plaster.
Janek Czekaj
> over the lot. "Taper edge" plasterboard is made that way at the
> factory, for when you're going to tape the joints and mud over just
> the joints alone. If you tape the edges of square board but don't
> skim the whole board, you get a raised stripe that looks like
> snecking.
>
Yes, I have only seen one ceiling where the owner did not plaster the board
and I did not have the heart to tell him that I could see all the tape
running horizontally and vertically.
My local Wickes and 2 B&Qs sell plasterboard which is square fit and I have
never seen tapered edge board in them at all which is what my 'Readers'
Didgest' DIY book reccommends.
I am going to go visit some local show-homes tomorrow to take a long look at
the walls and ceilings to work out whether they are plastered or not.
I had planned on putting the ceiling board up myself and then, after toying
with skimming it myself, decided on getting in a plasterer for that job. I
read alot about these DIY finishing plasters being easy to use - are they?
Thanks,
Jan.
"Andy Dingley" <din...@codesmiths.com> wrote in message
news:5fvbpu84pqjkthivi...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 28 Sep 2002 17:05:46 +0100, "Janek Czekaj"
> <janekNOSPAM...@hotmail.NOSPAMcom> wrote:
>
> >you put the plasterboard up, you taper the joints and then you apply a
> >coat of finishing plaster.
>
Terry
>
> > You don't "taper" the joints, you tape them and then (optionally) skim
> > over the lot. "Taper edge" plasterboard is made that way at the
> > factory, for when you're going to tape the joints and mud over just
> > the joints alone. If you tape the edges of square board but don't
> > skim the whole board, you get a raised stripe that looks like
> > snecking.
> >
nowadays, half inch/12 mm gypsum board or gyproc or, as it is
called in the UK, plasterboard. Typically four by eight sheets
are mounted vertically and screwed/nailed to the wall studs on 16
or 24 inch centres. The vertical edges are tapered/feathered so
that when adjacent sheets are butted together there is slight
hollow. It is quite a skill plastering or as it is often
described 'sparkling' which obviously comes from the word
"Spackling" these joints, the inside and outside corners and the
joint with the ceiling along with filling in all the screw/nail
holes and any special arrangements such as the boxed in area
above upper kitchen cabinets etc. There are a large variety of
plastering products available; hard edge corners, corners that
can curve, paper and Fiberglas tapes, etc. Commonly the plasterer
will work each area three times. 1) Initial joint plastering and
taping, allow to dry. 2) A Second application of plaster, and
skimming to a level surface, allow to dry. 3) Light sanding to
remove any ridges etc.
It is most unusual to skim plaster the whole wall, even in a new
$250,000 house (100,000 pounds?) which is an expensive house
here; a good plasterer leaves a wall that is quite capable of
being painted; initially an undercoat is applied equally to the
papered and the newly plastered areas and then walls are either
painted or papered. If it is a poor job and a high gloss paint is
used it will however show up imperfections under certain light
angle conditions. Typical brand new houses here running anywhere
from $100,000 to $220,000 Can. (40,000 to 90,000 UK pounds say)
are constructed this way.
AFIK most walls are currently constructed with eight foot gypsum
board sheets placed vertically but there are many areas around
stairs and ceilings where various pieces are cut and and used;
quite often these involve 'butt joints' with no feathering; but
plasterers seem to do a fine job of taping and 'sparkling' these
also.
When our house was built 32 years ago three eighths plasterboard
was then used (still can be bought for repairs) and was then
available in 8, 10 and 12 foot lengths. So our rooms being 12
feet or more it was possible for one person to manhandle even a
12 foot sheet of 3/8th into position horizontally thus spanning
the whole room or most of a whole room. (All of our 4 bedrooms
are at least ten feet or more wide). Then with another 12 footer
or a combination of lengths horizontally above, with appropriate
cut-outs for windows and doors and electrical outlets etc. the
whole eight feet of height was 'gyproced' ready for plastering
one main horizontal joint across the middle of the wall height!
I have very little (read zero!) skill in this area so even my
plastering repairs are time consuming and not very professional!
So my practice was to hire a good plasterer; one was an
instructor at a local trades college doing work in his 'off time'
another was a hunchbacked gentleman who loved to drink and was
paid in cash! His plastering even when slightly under 'The
affluence of incahol' was even better than that of the
instructor; but as I mentioned this was all over 30 years hence!
Anyway our bog standard paper taped and jointed gypsum board
wooden stud walls are standing up fine after 32 years some of
which have involved very low temperatures, heavy snow loads and
winds over 120 kilometres per hour. There are many houses built
in the same manner dating from pre W.W.II, the late 1940s
immediately after W.W.II and through to the present with every
indication they will definitely last another 20, 30 or 40 years
or longer if maintained. Over time of course people have
'improved' their homes, adding extensions, raising the roof to
add rooms, adding garages or converting garages to extra rooms
etc. This is where timber frame and gypsum board construction is
very flexible and adaptable especially for the handyman (and a
bunch of neighbours and relatives helping out!) provided that
structural integrity is maintained. For example in converting a
basement area a homeowner might replace a structural wood stud
wall with a steel beam and support posts in order to open up an
area for recreation or as a workshop or extra bedroom.
One of our plans is to add a significant garage, boat shed
extension to one end of our house; about 15 to 18 foot wide and
to at least the full depth of the existing house with an area of
around 600-800 sq. feet. It will be wood frame with gypsum board
interior construction.
Cheers.
Jim
wrote:
>Agree; Here, eastern Canada, we build whole houses using,
>nowadays, half inch/12 mm gypsum board or gyproc or, as it is
>called in the UK, plasterboard.
Terry, Nice post. Who is it that calles it "sheetroc"? Is it the U.S.
Americans? The "gyp" obviously is short for gypsym, but what does the
"roc" element of the word refer to?
Jim
Janek Czekaj
Jan.
"Terry" <tsan...@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3D966A5F...@nf.sympatico.ca...
andy smith
I basically have one 10ft bathroom wall to do (which is stripped back to
grey breeze block and then some patching up on the other walls (which I'm
not too worried about - migh require skimming of a few square feet)....
I'm pretty competent @ diy - though plastering a large area is new ... I was
going to get a plasterer in ... but am just getting messed about (not
returning phone calls ... not turning up etc) ...
I was thinking about sticking platerboards to the wall with plasterboard
adhesive ...
Now some of the wall will be tiled (3ft next to bath which will have a
shower. over) .. some covered with units (next 3ft ... floor & wall units
with a gap beween floor and wall units & one above) ... and some wallpapered
/ painted (where the w/c will be) ....
Have not skimmed a large area before
i) ... do you think I should ... all the wall? or none? ... or just the
parts that are going to be paper over (ie once I have units and tiles up)
... I have had some afriendly advice not to bother but to seal with pva
ii) If skimming over plasterboard ... do you think it pretty
straightforward... what is the best (easiest) product for the novice to use
.... has there been a posting of advice on howto skim platerboard...
thanks Andy
"Janek Czekaj" <janekNOSPAM...@hotmail.NOSPAMcom> wrote in message
news:trkl9.3443$YE1....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
Meoww
Hello Jan
This is an interesting thread which has thrown up some pretty
pejorative and, in my opinion, falsely based comments about modern
plastering methods. In particular the ones to which you allude.
Finishing procedures, like most things in the building trade have
evolved considerably over the years and one of the main reasons that
plastering has been considered for revision is that a new house, if
traditionally plastered, has hundreds of gallons of water introduced
into what is a new and still maturing structure. This is not
considered to be the ideal situation and anyone who has seen their
architraves part company, doors swell and cracks appear between
adjoining surfaces would no doubt agree.
I do not work for British Gypsum nor do I have anything at all to do
with them but I applaud their commitment to innovation and ongoing
development such as tapered boards and dry lining systems in general.
In a nutshell tapered boards are fixed to internal walls, either by
nailing or 'dotting' such that the tapered edges butt up to each
other. A filling mixture and paper tape is then applied to the joint
(usually by the use of a machine which does both things at once).
When it is dry the surface is sanded flush. The filler is fine and is
concealed by sanding without any problems at all. Nail holes can be
filled in the same manner.
After sanding a finishing/sealing coat is applied to the surface and,
in my experience, provides a hard wearing, smooth and receptive
surface for painting, wallpapering or anything else you normally do
with an internal wall.
Having built many timber framed and conventional houses I would not
go back to wet plastering however many big clocks you presented me
with.
Because it isn't what we were all brought up with doesn't mean to say
it isn't the business. For an amateur who carefully studies what's
required, dry lining could be the ideal solution. Visit British
Gypsum's site or talk to their technical department. You could be
pleasantly surprised.
HTH
Patrick
Terry
>
> Wow - thanks for the lonnnnnnnnnnng but very interesting post.
>
> Jan.
Thanks Jan: I do tend to wax on ...... it's the fault of our DSL
permanently on line internet connection; it's some years since we
had a dial up! Sorry bout that.
Not advocating a necessarily better, just a different, method of
construction.
As an immigrant (ex UK) I found it delightful to be able (myself
plus a couple of carpenters each time) to twice 'build our own'.
Made a few mistakes of course, had to correct them and learnt a
lot. Also some very good choices/decisions that have worked out
well, including, for example, to build a very simple shed style
low angle roof (British Columbia) design with wide roof
overhangs, use all electric etc. One finishes up with a home
equivalent in quality and value to any other in this area and in
our case without, for both homes, any mortgage/interest payments!
And having built it oneself you think you know (or can remember!)
where everything is; well maybe!
Recently read that Canadians spend about one per cent of market
value of their homes on annual maintenance/repairs. That would
typically be around, say, $1500 (or roughly 650 UK Pounds/). Our
maintenance has been somewhat lower than that Canadian average,
d-i-y of course.
Originally (32 years ago) we had a well and septic system; now a
municipal supply. Water and sewer fees are presently about $230
(100 UK pounds) per year. They have been that amount for the past
twenty years or so but will probably IMO increase in the next few
years as the need to better treat sewage etc. is required.
Cheers.
Terry
>
> Terry, Nice post. Who is it that calles it "sheetroc"? Is it the U.S.
> Americans? The "gyp" obviously is short for gypsym, but what does the
> "roc" element of the word refer to?
> Jim
Hi Jim:
I guess so. We are a rather long way from the US in this part of
Canada. Each area tends to have it's own 'colloquial' expression
for various products. ** 'Roc' probably since it is hardened
plaster, cos you can score it and 'crack' along that line
(provided it hasn't got damp! Once gypsum board has got actually
soaking wet, say extinguishing a house fire, it is useless.
There's also other sheet materials e.g. 'Blue board, cement
board, not familiar with them but understand they are used where
waterproofing is important e.g. a bathroom. In those cases I
guess they might also be tiled or given a moisture resistant
finish.
Terry.
** e.g. 'Matched lumber' here, means tongue and groove boards
(local spruce/fir softwood) used typically for roofs and outside
'sheathing' of wood frame houses! It holds nails well. It does
tend to have similar width boards in each batch but to no
particular standard I'm aware of, making it easier to 'end to
end' boards of similar width as we nail them onto the framing.
Elsewhere it could mean 'Selected boards'!
Janek Czekaj
Thanks for the info... I take it this applies equally to plasterboard
ceilings as it does to walls?
I have visited British Gypsum's site a few times but it seems aimed at
professionals and not DIYers - unless I went to the wrong place?
I notice B&Q have a good tutorial on applying DIY plasters but with the
caveat of stating that you do need some skill. I would have thought the
whole point of such DIY plasters, especially DIY finishing plasters, is that
they would be easy to use. Problem is, as I stated in another post, I have
never seen taped plasterboard in B&Q or Wickes - and I have a huge B&Q
warehouse a few miles away.
Also, again at Wickes and B&Q, I have NEVER seen any thick half inch
plasterboard on sale - just the thin stuff. Do you have to order the thick
stuff specially?
I have about 8 rooms which, basically, have the same plaster in when my
house was built around 100 years ago. I am aiming to simply cover these with
plasterboard by nailing the board to the beams. I was then going to either
get a boy in - like gold-dust - or attempt it myself with Blue Hawk DIY
finishing plaster from B&Q. It seems to make sense as I could be an expert
by the time I get to room 8! :-)
As for some of the walls - I was going to batten them using lots of close
battens to avoid the 'warping' that a neighbour now says she has. Then I was
going to have a go at plastering myself as, again, I might become an expert
by the end. And now I am thinking of, perhaps overkill(?), battening closely
and then using the 'dot and dab' between the battens to ensure a sold
background behind the plasterboard.
BTW, my neighbour had her plasterboard skimmed but she says her wall-paper
will not stick to the walls now and even super-glue has failed - do you need
to treat newly skimmed walls or blank plasterboard with anything special. I
notice people like B&Q and Blue Hawk sell these plasterboard sealants but
cannot find out exactly what they are.
One last question for all your plasterboard gurus out there. The top two
floors of my house have angled corner ceilings - you know, where the roof
points up - and I do not know whether I should simply use filler to repair
cracks here or plasterboard over. As I am going to be doing alot of this I
wonder if it makes sense to do these as well or am I just making more work
for myself?
Apologies for so many questions,
Ian Clowes
Janek Czekaj wrote:
>
> My local Wickes and 2 B&Qs sell plasterboard which is square fit and I have
> never seen tapered edge board in them at all which is what my 'Readers'
> Didgest' DIY book reccommends.
Hi
Look a little more closely and I think you'll find Wickes do have 8'x4'
1/2" taped edged board. The boards are supplied by BG in pairs, taped
together down the short edge with 'good' faces inwards. I forget which
way around the colours go for sure, but I think its red tape joining
squre edged boards, and green joining taper edged. If you look at the
tape it'll describe the boards dimensions, edges, etc.
IanC
Phil Addison
>After sanding a finishing/sealing coat is applied to the surface and,
>in my experience, provides a hard wearing, smooth and receptive
>surface for painting, wallpapering or anything else you normally do
>with an internal wall.
What is this finish? My only worry, albeit a big one for me, about not skimming,
is the durability of the surface. Does this finishing/sealing that stand up to
repeated re-wallpapering, including wallpaper that is stuck on really well and
does not fall off as soon as you put the steamer on it? I would love to be
convinced.
Phil Addison
<janekNOSPAM...@hotmail.NOSPAMcom> wrote:
>I notice B&Q have a good tutorial on applying DIY plasters but with the
>caveat of stating that you do need some skill. I would have thought the
>whole point of such DIY plasters, especially DIY finishing plasters, is that
>they would be easy to use.
Invent a self-levelling compound that works on a vertical surface and you will
be rich!
Phil
Janek Czekaj
Janek.
"Ian Clowes" <clowe...@spamless.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3D976DAB...@spamless.hotmail.com...
Meoww
Phil/Jan and others.
It's about six years or so since I had any direct dealings with
dry-lining but at the time we were so impressed with it we finished up
doing nothing else. I will try to contact British Gypsum's technical
department and get the low down on it for you. I remember actually
going down to Leicester to see the process. We spent the morning down
the gypsum mine (interesting if you like cavernous drift mines) and
the afternoon in their demonstration workshop.
The techniques available were extremely interesting, and we (that is
my foreman) as complete novices, tried their product on site and it
worked superbly.
When you're building houses, you get plenty of niggles and complaints.
We never had any regarding wall finishes and the decorators
definitely preferred dry-lining. Not only was it quicker to decorate
after finishing but it was a better finish too. Especially in winter
when poor light can play havoc with skimmed surfaces!
An earlier posting was asking if the surface was durable. The answer
is yes, most certainly.
You will not find these products in B&Q, you'll have to go to a good
B.M..
Jan: half inch boards should not need the backing you're intending to
give to them. They are incredibly firm and don't bend once in situ.
Will revert to this post as and when I find anything out from
B.Gypsum.
Regards
Patrick
Tony Halmarack
What's wrong with wallpapering on top of wallpaper that is stuck on really
well? Even the vinyl paper is designed to have the vinyl facing stripped
off, leaving a lining paper base behind. Embossed paper can easily be
papered over if stout lining paper is used first, adding the advantage of
increased insulation.
It is difficult getting wallpaper off plasterboard but not usually
necessary when the surface is going to be papered.
I've had some dreadful experiences stripping wallpaper off skimmed
plasterboard, with dinner plate size patches of skimming coming off with
the paper. Sure, if the skimming job had been done properly this would not
tend to happen but that doesn't help much when faced with re-finishing a
wall resembling a moonscape.
--
Tony Halmarack
Janek Czekaj
Thanks, as always, for the great info. Look forward to reading more about
this.
Much appreciated,
Janek.
"Meoww" <mustafa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:dd3e8c09.02093...@posting.google.com...
Meoww
> Patrick,
>
> Thanks, as always, for the great info. Look forward to reading more about
> this.
>
> Much appreciated,
>
>
> Janek.
>
Janek
I've had a chance to talk to the technical department at British Gysum
and confirmed that what I said is still applicable.
For finishing there are two systems.
1. For all standard installations (in non humid areas) use one coat of
Gyproc primer
2. For bathrooms and kitchens etc theres a two coat drywall sealer.
Both available from Builders Merchants.
I specifically asked about wallpapering and they confirm that it has
been tested for wall papering and removal. I asked about repeated
application and removal and they said that time would degrade the
finish but the thing to do was to seal it with a coat of emulsion
paint. They openly did not recommend their product be re-applied
because it was expensive compared to paint.
If you visit www.british-gypsum.bpb.co.uk, pick up specification
centre, white book, board fiinishing and go to page 5 (it's a pdf
document), you'll find out all you need to know, compelte with
photographs of applications.
There are some quite interesting BG products including a dry line
system for crappy old stone walls !
HTH
Patrick
Janek Czekaj
That, as always, is superb information and I certainly am biased in favour
of the dry-boarding now. Looks like a common mistake people make is buying
the thin board from DIY shops rather than ordering the thicker stuff.
Much appreciated,
Janek.
"Meoww" <mustafa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:dd3e8c09.02100...@posting.google.com...
andy smith
much difference in sealing with gyproc primer rather than diluted pva
(5:1?) - I have pva - should I go out and buy gyproc primer instead? thanks
"Meoww" <mustafa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:dd3e8c09.02100...@posting.google.com...