New internal door into a integral garage.
sjo...@scannex.co.uk
garage to allow my wifes disabled wheel chair to get in and out of the
house via the garage, this is where she keeps her outdoor scooter. The
garage floor is approximately 1 inch lower than the dinning room floor
as the house is built on a concrete slab.
I know from building regs that the door should be a self closing fire
door and that there should be at least a 4" step down into the garage.
This step is not possible and defeats the purpose. Does anybody know
if there is any way round this requirement.
Thanks
Rod
Can't help at all - but suggest that you start by ringing your BCO and
chatting, if possible.
Do keep us informed here. It is an interesting and worthwhile question.
--
Rod
Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
<www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>
Bob Mannix
news:b8bc11a5-e8f9-4152...@34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
As to "defeating the purpose" I would imagine that a ramp would be just as
acceptable as a step - you might be able to ramp up in the house and down
into the garage to achieve the 4". I believe the 4" is a safeguard against
fumes from spilled petrol causing a fire/exposion risk in the habitable part
of the property ( the garage having fire protection between it and the rest
of the house) and a ramp wouldn't compromise this.
Thinking laterally, you could replace the external garage doors with a
single narrow door, so that petrol engined vehicles could not be stored in
there and, for the purposes of the regulations it *might* then cease to be a
garage. It would have an effect on the property price though (and you may
want a car in there).
You should (as the other poster says) chat with your BCO - these are some
ideas you could take with you.
--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)
Adrian
they were saying:
> Thinking laterally, you could replace the external garage doors with a
> single narrow door, so that petrol engined vehicles could not be stored
> in there
A door narrow enough not to allow "petrol engined vehicles" in wouldn't
allow the OP's wife's mobility buggy in, either.
Bob Mannix
news:g35gvd$siu$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
Well, you know what I mean - an electric buggy will go through a normal
door. Yes you could get a mower in but then it's a shed not a garage! Worth
a try
John
"Bob Mannix" <b1o...@mannix.org.uk> wrote in message
news:g35he1$7m6$1...@south.jnrs.ja.net...
provided they can be readily reversed if the person moves home (for
example). However the 4 inch drop that is only a one inch drop could be a
big issue.
Adrian
they were saying:
>>> Thinking laterally, you could replace the external garage doors with a
>>> single narrow door, so that petrol engined vehicles could not be
>>> stored in there
>> A door narrow enough not to allow "petrol engined vehicles" in wouldn't
>> allow the OP's wife's mobility buggy in, either.
> Well, you know what I mean - an electric buggy will go through a normal
> door. Yes you could get a mower in but then it's a shed not a garage!
> Worth a try
I was thinking more of a motorbike, but...
sjo...@scannex.co.uk
I spoke to BCO who said that basically he supplied the rules, not the
ideas. He said I could put in a planning application at £100, but that
seems pointless to me if I am certain to fail. The only thing I can
think of is a brick wall across the bottom of the door, which will
then require a ramp both sides, which is still a pain but having just
spoken to the BCO is acceptable. A electric door opener of the self
closing door from the house power would also be acceptable. Not an
ideal solution with ramps inside the house! Any body know what sort of
fire door is acceptable!
Thanks
Man at B&Q
wrote:
It's inside an integral garage, who's going to know what you've done?
So long as you are sensible, I would just do it. If you ever come to
sell, re-instate the wall beforehand.
MBQ
Ian French
Hi,
My understanding that the reason for this 100mm step is to prevent split
petrol from a car accumulating on the floor of the garage in such quantities
so that it could flow into the house and be ignited by a cigarette or open
fire etc.
I have one of these 100mm steps between the passageway between my Garage and
house, forced on me by the BCO, which I have to step over when going both
ways. Its a trip hazard, and a nuisance.
Afterwards I wondered if it would be permissable to create a sump (or
trough) about 12 inches long ( and the full width of the doorway) on the
garage side of the doorway so that the split petrol could accumulate in
there instead. Its capacity would have to be sufficient to handle say 15
gallons
(worst case), of petrol, this is about 2.4 cubic feet. For a 30 inch wide
door its depth would be about 12 inches.
In addition one could claim to the BCO that the floor level on the garage
side immediately adjacent to the door was lower by 300mm than the house, so
it complied with the regs !
Of course you would have to cover the sump with a metal grill, or piece of
holly metal ( thats metal with holes in, not religuos metal !!) so that the
wheel chair would not fall down it. Perhaps you fit the grill after the BCO
has inspected it !
I never investigated the possibility of this approach, perhaps you would
like to.
Good luck.
Ian.
Rod
Instead of the traditional 100mm step between integral garages and
dwellinghouses, this can now be achieved with a 100mm sloping floor. NB:
Apart from integral garage/dwellinghouses, “fire doors need not be
provided with self-closing devices”
<http://www.thenbs.com/buildingregs/publications/appDocB2007.asp>
<http://www.rmd.communities.gov.uk/project.asp?intProjectID=12159>
Garage upstands
12. Following Scotland’s decision to remove the provision for a 100mm
upstand separating a dwellinghouse from an integral or adjoining garage,
BRE were asked to evaluate the benefits of such a feature. The research
suggested that although it did help to prevent the flow of fuel (liquid
or vapour) into the house, a similar benefit could be achieved by
allowing the fuel to flow away from the house by laying the floor to
fall. The draft AD B has therefore been amended to allow this as an
alternative to an upstand which will help the dwelling to be more
accessible and is a deregulatory measure.
<http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/324129.pdf>
4.2 GARAGE OR CARPORTS Ideally all wheelchair units should be designed
with a garage or car port adjacent to or as an integral part of the
dwelling.
5.3 EXTERNAL DOORS INCLUDING COMMUNAL DOORS Should have A MINIMUM CLEAR
OPENING(5) WIDTH OF 900mm.
5.3.a) There should be a clear space of 550mm minimum between the
opening edge of the door and nearest obstruction to the side e.g. wall.
5.3.b) Thresholds of external doors should be as flush as possible and
no more than 15mm high. They should have bevelled or rounded edges to
prevent the wheelchair from jarring, suitable material would be a metal
threshold which has a compressible rubber strip.
<www.selondonhousing.org/Documents/LBG%20Access%20Brief%20a5%2022%20may%202002.doc>
Bob Mannix
news:Ld6dnXnQV9L...@pipex.net...
I may be wrong but I think you will find that it it to prevent fumes from
spilt petrol (which are heavier than air and explosive) from entering the
house. In which case your trench wouldn't be sufficient.
Tale from these parts - a good while ago a gentleman in the village in which
I lived was removing vinyl floor tiles using petrol. With the doors shut.
After he'd been doing this for a while, at 3.30pm, the normally vented back
boiler in the room lit up. Killed him and blew the front window of the
downstairs into the garden. Widow (and window) upstairs OK.
--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)
>
sjo...@scannex.co.uk
> "Ian French" <i...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
That appears to be the way I will go. Does the bottom of the door butt
up to the step or over it. If it butted up I could remove step until I
sell the House. Does anybody know the requirements for the Fire Door,
hinges etc and can I use a standard door frame
Thanks
Rod
> That appears to be the way I will go. Does the bottom of the door butt
> up to the step or over it. If it butted up I could remove step until I
> sell the House. Does anybody know the requirements for the Fire Door,
> hinges etc and can I use a standard door frame
> Thanks
Not sure which way you are intending to go!
Do note, the regulations appear to insist on a step down into the garage
- and do not seem to allow an upstand. Exception (noted in earlier post
by me) is sloping garage floor (at least, in Scotland). If an upstand
were to be allowed, surely it would have to petrol and petrol vapour
proof - I'd suggest that timber, masonry, etc. might not be sufficient.
The trench idea would surely not be allowed because there is no obvious
way of ever dispersing any vapour that did accumulate. Or liquid petrol
for that matter. (Short of explosion!)
Doctor Drivel
> <sjo...@scannex.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:b8bc11a5-e8f9-4152...@34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>I would like to put a internal door from our dinning room into our
>> garage to allow my wifes disabled wheel chair to get in and out of the
>> house via the garage, this is where she keeps her outdoor scooter. The
>> garage floor is approximately 1 inch lower than the dinning room floor
>> as the house is built on a concrete slab.
>> I know from building regs that the door should be a self closing fire
>> door and that there should be at least a 4" step down into the garage.
>> This step is not possible and defeats the purpose. Does anybody know
>> if there is any way round this requirement.
>
> As to "defeating the purpose" I would imagine that a ramp would be just as
> acceptable as a step - you might be able to ramp up in the house and down
> into the garage to achieve the 4". I believe the 4" is a safeguard against
> fumes from spilled petrol causing a fire/exposion risk in the habitable
> part of the property ( the garage having fire protection between it and
> the rest of the house) and a ramp wouldn't compromise this.
>
> Thinking laterally, you could replace the external garage doors with a
> single narrow door, so that petrol engined vehicles could not be stored in
> there and, for the purposes of the regulations it *might* then cease to be
> a garage. It would have an effect on the property price though (and you
> may want a car in there).
The garage door can always be re-fitted when sold. A relative of mine took
down a wall between the kitchen and dining room to make a large family
room - which was terrific. The local estate agent said this would reduce
the value as they have lost a room. When they sold up 8 years later he
rebuilt the wall using studding and Fermacell pre-finished boards for around
£100 and a weekends work.
sjo...@scannex.co.uk
Having spoke to BCO it seems that it is now acceptable to have the
floor of the garage laid to allow fuel spills to flow away from the
door to the outside, and a 50mm drop would then be acceptable, so just
need a thin screed laid!
BCO said knock the door through to check various heights and then call
the BCO guy to come and have a look and decide on the options, brill
Roger
<1021d680-7ef2-4017...@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>
from "sjo...@scannex.co.uk" <sjo...@scannex.co.uk> contains these words:
> Does anybody know the requirements for the Fire Door,
> hinges etc and can I use a standard door frame
I started a thread a bit ago on fire doors. Exact title forgotten.
Seems that fire hinges and fire door casings required in addition to the
fire door. IIRC someone said that door closers not required which
doesn't agree with one comment in this thread.
--
Roger Chapman