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Re: Octopus, meter change, refusing smart meters
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Andy Burns
Sep 15, 2023, 5:58:07 AM9/15/23
to
Jethro_uk wrote:
> Octopus are nagging me to have my electricity meter changed (it's due to
> run out of certification).
>
> Apparently they can't fit a non-smart one as they haven't any left.
They could fit a smart meter, but leave it in dumb mode ...
> Octopus are nagging me to have my electricity meter changed (it's due to
> run out of certification).
>
> Apparently they can't fit a non-smart one as they haven't any left.
They could fit a smart meter, but leave it in dumb mode ...
Robin
Sep 15, 2023, 6:04:44 AM9/15/23
to
On 15/09/2023 10:53, Jethro_uk wrote:
> Octopus are nagging me to have my electricity meter changed (it's due to
> run out of certification).
>
> Apparently they can't fit a non-smart one as they haven't any left.
>
> Should I finally resign myself to a POS smart meter, or is there another
> Octopus are nagging me to have my electricity meter changed (it's due to
> run out of certification).
>
> Apparently they can't fit a non-smart one as they haven't any left.
>
> way ?
You do not have a right to a meter with a spinning disc.
You do have (according to Ofgem) a right not to accept a smart meter.
Solution seems simple: tell them to fit a smart meter without the comms
enabled. Though you may then find they aren't that bothered about
certification.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
NY
Sep 15, 2023, 8:37:01 AM9/15/23
to
"Robin" <r...@outlook.com> wrote in message
news:bd7f6186-5625-d2e6...@outlook.com...
We had smart gas and electricity meters fitted in June by Octopus, who have
been our supplier for several years. We'd been asking for smart meters for a
while but were told that they weren't available for our postcode (maybe due
to poor mobile internet comms, if that is how the meters phone home with
their readings). Finally they said yes.
Everything worked fine for a couple of months, then the gas meter stopped
reporting its readings (via the electricity meter, so I'm told) to the
"in-home device" (the console which gives live meter readings) and to the
Octopus database that their app and website use.
They fixed the problem remotely by rebooting something which re-established
the gas-to-electricity-meter comms, but only for a few days and now it's
failed again. An engineer is coming to investigate. Could be interference
from some other device. The tech support email that I had said that the
inter-meter comms was on 50 GHz (sic), which may be a typo for 5 GHz, unless
50 GHz is available for short-range comms, like 470 MHz is for weather
stations communicating with remote sensors. The meters are about 30 feet
apart through a couple of thick walls (that bit of the house dates from the
late 1800s) but the meter fitter was evidently happy that he'd got good
comms at the time. The IHD reports OK for the various links in the chain:
for each meter, for the IHD, for "phoning home", so I suspect it is not
given a true picture and is reporting OK even though there is a fault - duff
diagnostics!
For now, I still read the meters manually each day and log the details in a
spreadsheet, as I did with the non-smart meters. It's not much effort to
read the gas meter at its own display, rather than reading in at the IHD
console, as I do for electricity. I also record the midnight-to-midnight
usage that the app tells me - but only for elec since the gas readings have
stopped working.
There is an annoying bug in Octopus's website whcih means that the lack of
recent meter readings (or very rare sensible readings amongst silly values
or no values) causes the site to display *no* readings, even the earlier
ones from before mid August when things suddenly stopped working.
news:bd7f6186-5625-d2e6...@outlook.com...
been our supplier for several years. We'd been asking for smart meters for a
while but were told that they weren't available for our postcode (maybe due
to poor mobile internet comms, if that is how the meters phone home with
their readings). Finally they said yes.
Everything worked fine for a couple of months, then the gas meter stopped
reporting its readings (via the electricity meter, so I'm told) to the
"in-home device" (the console which gives live meter readings) and to the
Octopus database that their app and website use.
They fixed the problem remotely by rebooting something which re-established
the gas-to-electricity-meter comms, but only for a few days and now it's
failed again. An engineer is coming to investigate. Could be interference
from some other device. The tech support email that I had said that the
inter-meter comms was on 50 GHz (sic), which may be a typo for 5 GHz, unless
50 GHz is available for short-range comms, like 470 MHz is for weather
stations communicating with remote sensors. The meters are about 30 feet
apart through a couple of thick walls (that bit of the house dates from the
late 1800s) but the meter fitter was evidently happy that he'd got good
comms at the time. The IHD reports OK for the various links in the chain:
for each meter, for the IHD, for "phoning home", so I suspect it is not
given a true picture and is reporting OK even though there is a fault - duff
diagnostics!
For now, I still read the meters manually each day and log the details in a
spreadsheet, as I did with the non-smart meters. It's not much effort to
read the gas meter at its own display, rather than reading in at the IHD
console, as I do for electricity. I also record the midnight-to-midnight
usage that the app tells me - but only for elec since the gas readings have
stopped working.
There is an annoying bug in Octopus's website whcih means that the lack of
recent meter readings (or very rare sensible readings amongst silly values
or no values) causes the site to display *no* readings, even the earlier
ones from before mid August when things suddenly stopped working.
Andy Burns
Sep 15, 2023, 8:57:03 AM9/15/23
to
NY wrote:
> We'd been asking for smart meters for a while but were told that they
> weren't available for our postcode (maybe due to poor mobile internet
> comms, if that is how the meters phone home with their readings).
Depends where you live...
> We'd been asking for smart meters for a while but were told that they
> weren't available for our postcode (maybe due to poor mobile internet
> comms, if that is how the meters phone home with their readings).
South and it's O2/Teleonica mobile signals.
North and it's Arqiva dedicated metering network (with special
frequencies required e.g. near Fylingdales etc).
As an alternative, they can use their own mesh networking between your
smart meter and a neighbour's smart meter if that will "bridge" a gap,
not sure how many mesh-hops are allowed?
> Finally they said yes.
Pancho
Sep 15, 2023, 9:32:31 AM9/15/23
to
On 15/09/2023 13:36, NY wrote:
> Everything worked fine for a couple of months, then the gas meter
> stopped reporting its readings (via the electricity meter, so I'm told)
> to the "in-home device" (the console which gives live meter readings)
> and to the Octopus database that their app and website use.
>
Mine is the other way around. My gas meter works smart, but my
> Everything worked fine for a couple of months, then the gas meter
> stopped reporting its readings (via the electricity meter, so I'm told)
> to the "in-home device" (the console which gives live meter readings)
> and to the Octopus database that their app and website use.
>
electricity meter stopped reporting years ago. As the gas reporting goes
via the electricity meter, I'm guessing it is a problem at their end,
but they have shown zero interest in fixing it.
alan_m
Sep 15, 2023, 10:16:06 AM9/15/23
to
On 15/09/2023 13:36, NY wrote:
>
>
> There is an annoying bug in Octopus's website whcih means that the lack
> of recent meter readings (or very rare sensible readings amongst silly
> values or no values) causes the site to display *no* readings, even the
> earlier ones from before mid August when things suddenly stopped working.
Probably not as bad as the scottish power usage graphs. In the day when
> of recent meter readings (or very rare sensible readings amongst silly
> values or no values) causes the site to display *no* readings, even the
> earlier ones from before mid August when things suddenly stopped working.
I was a customer and providing monthly readings to them.
I was a week late in providing a reading so the usage showed their
estimated reading. When I gave the late reading it was lower than their
new estimate and produced a negative result for the usage between their
estimate and my actual reading. Their software for the usage graph
couldn't cope with negative values* and interpreted as a very large
positive number. As a result the y axis was scaled from zero to the
largest 16 bit positive number rather than amore sensible scale, say
from zero to 100.
* The 2s complement type of roll over
0002 hex = 2, 0001 hex = 1, 0000 hex = 0, FFFF hex = -1, FFFE hex = -2
Their software seemed to regarding FFFF hex not as - 1 but as +65,335
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
alan_m
Sep 15, 2023, 10:33:23 AM9/15/23
to
On 15/09/2023 14:16, Jethro_uk wrote:
> Including the ability to remotely cut it off ?
Although this is possible the way most of the gutter press and media
have treated this has just been conspiracy theory scare tactics.
With a shortage of power the whole district is likely to be cut off at
the same time rather than individual houses one at a time via the smart
meter.
On non payment of bills they could remotely convert the meter to
pre-payment faster than obtaining a court order to do the same by
physically entering your property to swap the meter.
More likely to happen is variable tariffs based on the time of day to a
resolution of half an hour. The chances are that if this becomes common
there will be no cheaper deals for those not on a smart meter. Until
the "energy crisis" a some of the cheaper tariffs were based on you
having a smart meter, or having one installed within a short period from
the start of your contract.
Although this is possible the way most of the gutter press and media
have treated this has just been conspiracy theory scare tactics.
With a shortage of power the whole district is likely to be cut off at
the same time rather than individual houses one at a time via the smart
meter.
On non payment of bills they could remotely convert the meter to
pre-payment faster than obtaining a court order to do the same by
physically entering your property to swap the meter.
More likely to happen is variable tariffs based on the time of day to a
resolution of half an hour. The chances are that if this becomes common
there will be no cheaper deals for those not on a smart meter. Until
the "energy crisis" a some of the cheaper tariffs were based on you
having a smart meter, or having one installed within a short period from
the start of your contract.
alan_m
Sep 15, 2023, 10:49:48 AM9/15/23
to
supplier but having both electricity and gas working for many months the
gas reading ceased working. On phoning my supplier they arranged for the
meter to be updated/re-booted but this didn't work and after several
more attempts the problem was escalated up to second line technical.
I was told that there were two different intermediate methods for the
supplier to get the smart meter reading, both via a third party. I was
informed that my supplier would request a swap between methods and this
could take up to 1 week.
I have no way of knowing if any of the customer service info was BS but
both of my meters have worked flawlessly since 3 days after that final
phone call.
Andy Burns
Sep 15, 2023, 3:29:03 PM9/15/23
to
Jethro_uk wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Jethro_uk wrote:
>>
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Jethro_uk wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently they can't fit a non-smart one as they haven't any left.
>>
>> They could fit a smart meter, but leave it in dumb mode ...
>
>>
>> They could fit a smart meter, but leave it in dumb mode ...
>
> Including the ability to remotely cut it off ?
Depends if they fit it without a SIM, or fit it with a SIM and promise
not to use it ...
David Wade
Sep 15, 2023, 5:50:04 PM9/15/23
to
Andy Burns
Sep 15, 2023, 6:07:08 PM9/15/23
to
David Wade wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Depends if they fit it without a SIM, or fit it with a SIM and promise
>> not to use it ...
>
> Its only in the south they need a SIM. Up north not needed.
Brum counts as South :)
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Depends if they fit it without a SIM, or fit it with a SIM and promise
>> not to use it ...
>
> Its only in the south they need a SIM. Up north not needed.
me9
Sep 15, 2023, 7:08:09 PM9/15/23
to
bluetooth, and microwaves! -- mine is next to the microwave and can lose
comms while it is on), external as above.
The gas meter uses a low energy zigbee mode once eveery 30 minutes to
preserve teh battery to get >10yr life.
--
braind
Davey
Sep 15, 2023, 8:01:27 PM9/15/23
to
--
Davey.
Bob Henson
Sep 16, 2023, 3:15:29 AM9/16/23
to
Jethro_uk wrote:
> Octopus are nagging me to have my electricity meter changed (it's due to
> run out of certification).
>
> Octopus are nagging me to have my electricity meter changed (it's due to
> run out of certification).
>
> Apparently they can't fit a non-smart one as they haven't any left.
>
>
> Should I finally resign myself to a POS smart meter, or is there another
> way ?
Why not? You don't have to take any notice of it. It's nice not having to
> way ?
go outside and read it, otherwise just forget it's there.
--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England
It's not the pace of life that concerns me, it's the sudden stop at the
end.
Robin
Sep 16, 2023, 4:14:51 AM9/16/23
to
Brian Gaff
Sep 16, 2023, 4:43:13 AM9/16/23
to
The older meters have been refurbished many times as the guy at EDF told me
the cost of this process, being mostly manual and involving mechanical parts
which are hard to get is much greater than the smart meter. I suspect this
is the reason for this. They want a cheap way to keep doing the readings and
in the end will not need any meter readers either. I don't know what the
network usage costs them but I bet its reasonable considering the numbers.
I have to say that apart from a premature failure of the first meter, thus
far the readings have all been correct. Where energy companies seem to be
taking the piss is perpetuating the pay so much a month fiddle, which
inevitably at bill time leaves them holding on to your money, as was
discussed in a previous thread. Insist on only paying a bill on the metered
amount. That is what I did with EDF. In my case its quarterly, but every so
often if there is a glitch as there was when the Government gave companies a
subsidy, then the readings and amounts have to be calculated differently and
that is where if you are not careful the system defaults to monthly
payments and you end up giving them too much. Insist on going back to the
original on reading billing. At first EDF tried to tell me it was company
policy to do the monthly billing on a set amount, but when I raised a
complaint suddenly I got my way. I'm not saying they are unscrupulous, but
they are certainly guilty of taking the easy option if it ends up in their
favour. I've never dealt with Octopus myself, but ats these companies are
supposed to be mostly admin, one might actually think they are not going to
cock it up. Ha ha.
Brian
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"Jethro_uk" <jeth...@hotmailbin.com> wrote in message
news:ue19j5$2j81m$2...@dont-email.me...
the cost of this process, being mostly manual and involving mechanical parts
which are hard to get is much greater than the smart meter. I suspect this
is the reason for this. They want a cheap way to keep doing the readings and
in the end will not need any meter readers either. I don't know what the
network usage costs them but I bet its reasonable considering the numbers.
I have to say that apart from a premature failure of the first meter, thus
far the readings have all been correct. Where energy companies seem to be
taking the piss is perpetuating the pay so much a month fiddle, which
inevitably at bill time leaves them holding on to your money, as was
discussed in a previous thread. Insist on only paying a bill on the metered
amount. That is what I did with EDF. In my case its quarterly, but every so
often if there is a glitch as there was when the Government gave companies a
subsidy, then the readings and amounts have to be calculated differently and
that is where if you are not careful the system defaults to monthly
payments and you end up giving them too much. Insist on going back to the
original on reading billing. At first EDF tried to tell me it was company
policy to do the monthly billing on a set amount, but when I raised a
complaint suddenly I got my way. I'm not saying they are unscrupulous, but
they are certainly guilty of taking the easy option if it ends up in their
favour. I've never dealt with Octopus myself, but ats these companies are
supposed to be mostly admin, one might actually think they are not going to
cock it up. Ha ha.
Brian
--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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"Jethro_uk" <jeth...@hotmailbin.com> wrote in message
news:ue19j5$2j81m$2...@dont-email.me...
charles
Sep 16, 2023, 5:08:09 AM9/16/23
to
In article <ue3pqp$3ohip$1...@dont-email.me>, Brian Gaff
When Gas was still state owned, itb was suggested I by monthly by DD. They
worked out the amount by taking 15 month's usage (Dec, Jan & Feb being
counted twice) and then dividing by 12 to come up with a monthly payment.
Nothing new.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4t้ฒ
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
worked out the amount by taking 15 month's usage (Dec, Jan & Feb being
counted twice) and then dividing by 12 to come up with a monthly payment.
Nothing new.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4t้ฒ
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Andy Burns
Sep 16, 2023, 7:07:18 AM9/16/23
to
Robin wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> David Wade wrote:
>>
>>> Its only in the south they need a SIM. Up north not needed.
>>
>> Brum counts as South :)
>
> Central! The other SM region that uses mobile or mesh.
DCC only seem to speak in terms of "Central and south region" v.s.
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> David Wade wrote:
>>
>>> Its only in the south they need a SIM. Up north not needed.
>>
>> Brum counts as South :)
>
> Central! The other SM region that uses mobile or mesh.
"North region".
<https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqzR0wIe50upOZoyJQoUW049h6hkR0AFG18h1cwX7Nvw&s>
Were they originally bid for as three separate regions and Telefonica
just happened to win two of them?
NY
Sep 16, 2023, 8:35:55 AM9/16/23
to
On 16/09/2023 09:43, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Where energy companies seem to be
> taking the piss is perpetuating the pay so much a month fiddle, which
> inevitably at bill time leaves them holding on to your money, as was
> discussed in a previous thread. Insist on only paying a bill on the metered
> amount.
When I had a house of my own, before I got married, I was offered two
> Where energy companies seem to be
> taking the piss is perpetuating the pay so much a month fiddle, which
> inevitably at bill time leaves them holding on to your money, as was
> discussed in a previous thread. Insist on only paying a bill on the metered
> amount.
alternatives:
- pay periodically (either monthly or quarterly) by direct debit, using
an estimated amount on a budget scheme
- pay the actual bill (either monthly or quarterly) by manual means (ie
not direct debit): so I would receive a bill with a counterfoil which I
had to take to the bank together with a cheque and pay
The company (I think it was Southern Electricity/Gas) did not have the
technology to deduct a *variable* amount (according to meter readings)
by direct debit.
When I sold the house (when we got married) I had a lot of money owing
to me, and the company was very reluctant to refund it: the tried to
pressurise me into transferring the account to our shared house. I
persisted, threatening the ombudsman, and they paid up.
RJH
Sep 16, 2023, 8:44:35 AM9/16/23
to
On 16 Sep 2023 at 08:15:24 BST, Bob Henson wrote:
> Jethro_uk wrote:
>
>> Octopus are nagging me to have my electricity meter changed (it's due to
>> run out of certification).
>>
>> Apparently they can't fit a non-smart one as they haven't any left.
>>
>> Should I finally resign myself to a POS smart meter, or is there another
>> way ?
>
> Why not? You don't have to take any notice of it. It's nice not having to
> go outside and read it, otherwise just forget it's there.
There's a theory that suggests that the supplier can/will control your supply
> Jethro_uk wrote:
>
>> Octopus are nagging me to have my electricity meter changed (it's due to
>> run out of certification).
>>
>> Apparently they can't fit a non-smart one as they haven't any left.
>>
>> Should I finally resign myself to a POS smart meter, or is there another
>> way ?
>
> Why not? You don't have to take any notice of it. It's nice not having to
> go outside and read it, otherwise just forget it's there.
remotely.
If that is a concern I don't see why the OP (etc.) can't block the meter's
communication by wrapping it in foil or something.
--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK
Robin
Sep 16, 2023, 9:17:14 AM9/16/23
to
On 16/09/2023 12:07, Andy Burns wrote:
> Robin wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> David Wade wrote:
>>>
>>>> Its only in the south they need a SIM. Up north not needed.
>>>
>>> Brum counts as South :)
>>
>> Central! The other SM region that uses mobile or mesh.
>
> DCC only seem to speak in terms of "Central and south region" v.s.
> "North region".
>
> <https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqzR0wIe50upOZoyJQoUW049h6hkR0AFG18h1cwX7Nvw&s>
>
The text in that graphic is "CSP Central and South" without the "region"
> Robin wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> David Wade wrote:
>>>
>>>> Its only in the south they need a SIM. Up north not needed.
>>>
>>> Brum counts as South :)
>>
>> Central! The other SM region that uses mobile or mesh.
>
> DCC only seem to speak in terms of "Central and south region" v.s.
> "North region".
>
> <https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqzR0wIe50upOZoyJQoUW049h6hkR0AFG18h1cwX7Nvw&s>
>
leaving unclear if it is one or two. Elsewhere they and others make
explicit it's plural.
> Were they originally bid for as three separate regions and Telefonica
> just happened to win two of them?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/award-of-smart-meters-dcc-licence*
https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/media/6421/21115_dcc_development_plan_v12.pdf
*you will see that refers to "Centre" rather than "Central". I don't
know why/when the change.
Brian Gaff
Sep 17, 2023, 8:54:17 AM9/17/23
to
Yes nothing changed there. I guess its par for the course. I do now pay on
readingvia DD, and keep an eye on the bank statements because any kind of
manual intervention can make the system default back to monthly amounts it
seems. Thames water obviously use similar software but somewhere, somebody
has to set this default if a glitch occurs, and in my view the fact that
they do not bang off a letter,email or text at least is sharp practice.
Every now and then things can go wrong but compounding the error with a
default smacks of profiteering. Brian
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"NY" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
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readingvia DD, and keep an eye on the bank statements because any kind of
manual intervention can make the system default back to monthly amounts it
seems. Thames water obviously use similar software but somewhere, somebody
has to set this default if a glitch occurs, and in my view the fact that
they do not bang off a letter,email or text at least is sharp practice.
Every now and then things can go wrong but compounding the error with a
default smacks of profiteering. Brian
--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
news:k-2cnaFswq6DPJj4...@brightview.co.uk...
Graham.
Sep 17, 2023, 10:53:44 AM9/17/23
to
Jethro_uk <jeth...@hotmailbin.com> Wrote in message:
> Octopus are nagging me to have my electricity meter changed (it's due to run out of certification).Apparently they can't fit a non-smart one as they haven't any left.Should I finally resign myself to a POS smart meter, or is there another way ?
>
>
Octopus sent me the same letter, on two occasions during "Covid". I ignored them and haven't heard anything more. The thing was it was about the gas meter only (an old Parkinson Cowen (Thorn) numerical meter)
I found it odd that the old 80 Amp Ferranti electricity meter wasn't mentioned.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
> Octopus are nagging me to have my electricity meter changed (it's due to run out of certification).Apparently they can't fit a non-smart one as they haven't any left.Should I finally resign myself to a POS smart meter, or is there another way ?
>
>
Octopus sent me the same letter, on two occasions during "Covid". I ignored them and haven't heard anything more. The thing was it was about the gas meter only (an old Parkinson Cowen (Thorn) numerical meter)
I found it odd that the old 80 Amp Ferranti electricity meter wasn't mentioned.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
Pancho
Sep 17, 2023, 3:42:15 PM9/17/23
to
for years. However, I don't see why a phone call should be necessary,
the suppliers know when a smart meter isn't reporting. They know there
is a problem. Presumably, suppliers get government money for installing
them, but they then have little incentive to ensure they actually work.
alan_m
Sep 17, 2023, 5:46:33 PM9/17/23
to
On 17/09/2023 20:42, Pancho wrote:
Presumably, suppliers get government money for installing
> them, but they then have little incentive to ensure they actually work.
Do you think the £400 cost for each smart meters comes from money
Presumably, suppliers get government money for installing
> them, but they then have little incentive to ensure they actually work.
supplied by the Government?
Pancho
Sep 18, 2023, 3:35:23 AM9/18/23
to
On 17/09/2023 22:46, alan_m wrote:
> On 17/09/2023 20:42, Pancho wrote:
> Presumably, suppliers get government money for installing
>> them, but they then have little incentive to ensure they actually work.
>
> Do you think the £400 cost for each smart meters comes from money
> supplied by the Government?
>
OK, instead of getting money to install smart meters, they get a penalty
> On 17/09/2023 20:42, Pancho wrote:
> Presumably, suppliers get government money for installing
>> them, but they then have little incentive to ensure they actually work.
>
> Do you think the £400 cost for each smart meters comes from money
> supplied by the Government?
>
for not installing smart meters.
My point remains essentially the same, there is governmental economic
pressure on energy companies to install new meters, I can't see any
government economic pressure on energy companies to ensure they work.
Without government pressure, the economic benefits of smart meters, to
the energy company, must be small. They have little incentive to fix a
faulty meter. So it is yet another example of poorly designed regulation.
So yes, I could phone up the energy company, write them letters,
complain to the ombudsman, and eventually... the utility company may
make an effort to fix my meter.
My preference would be to have a government that was operationally
competent. i.e. If the government thought it worthwhile for people to
have working smart meters, they should have introduced rules that
targeted reporting/working smart meters, rather than installed smart
meters.
bert
Sep 20, 2023, 6:45:36 AM9/20/23
to
In article <ue8ujm$186mc$1...@dont-email.me>, Pancho
<Pancho...@proton.me> writes
If the government had had any sense they would have given the whole job
to the companies who manage the supply network not the middlemen who
merely bill you for usage.It would then have been a simple matter of
replacing old type with new type which can be read remotely. None of
this bullshit about saving you money. Same type of PR blunder as with
HS2.
--
bert
<Pancho...@proton.me> writes
to the companies who manage the supply network not the middlemen who
merely bill you for usage.It would then have been a simple matter of
replacing old type with new type which can be read remotely. None of
this bullshit about saving you money. Same type of PR blunder as with
HS2.
--
bert
Robin
Sep 20, 2023, 8:29:27 AM9/20/23
to
On 20/09/2023 11:42, bert wrote:
> If the government had had any sense they would have given the whole job
> to the companies who manage the supply network not the middlemen who
> merely bill you for usage.It would then have been a simple matter of
> replacing old type with new type which can be read remotely. None of
> this bullshit about saving you money. Same type of PR blunder as with HS2.
That option was considered. But it would have meant reversing the change
> If the government had had any sense they would have given the whole job
> to the companies who manage the supply network not the middlemen who
> merely bill you for usage.It would then have been a simple matter of
> replacing old type with new type which can be read remotely. None of
> this bullshit about saving you money. Same type of PR blunder as with HS2.
in 2003 to make suppliers responsible for metering - a change made in
part 'cos of complaints about monopoly DNOs giving poor service and poor
VFM.
Vir Campestris
Sep 22, 2023, 4:58:10 PM9/22/23
to
On 15/09/2023 10:53, Jethro_uk wrote:
> Octopus are nagging me to have my electricity meter changed (it's due to
> run out of certification).
>
> Apparently they can't fit a non-smart one as they haven't any left.
>
> Should I finally resign myself to a POS smart meter, or is there another
> way ?
My supplier told me my meter was out of calibration, and they needed to
> Octopus are nagging me to have my electricity meter changed (it's due to
> run out of certification).
>
> Apparently they can't fit a non-smart one as they haven't any left.
>
> Should I finally resign myself to a POS smart meter, or is there another
> way ?
replace it.
I called them up, and said "OK, but I don't want a smart meter, and IAC
they probably don't work around here, no mobile signal."
tap..tap... "Yes, we have had some failed installs around there. Goodbye."
Hang on I said, what about the calibration?
"Oh, that doesn't matter".
Ring a bell?
Andy
brian
Sep 25, 2023, 3:26:19 AM9/25/23
to
In message <uekv4t$cv90$3...@dont-email.me>, Vir Campestris
<vir.cam...@invalid.invalid> writes
It probably means the error is biased in their favour .
Brian
--
Brian Howie
<vir.cam...@invalid.invalid> writes
Brian
--
Brian Howie
David Wade
Sep 25, 2023, 4:34:21 AM9/25/23
to
companies have been fined for not installing Smart Meters so are
resorting to other means. British Gas has been using a "your meter will
catch fire"
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/british-gas-smart-meter-fire-investigation-g7s7mzr3x
https://tinyurl.com/mumf5erz
when they admit no meter has ever caught fire....
... however if you refuse you are costing others using your supplier
money, as in the end the fines they face for not installing Smart Meters
come out of our bills. To date most of the supply companies have been
fined, and you can guarantee that the fines won't come out of the
directors or shareholders pockets...
SES £700k
NPower £2.4M
Eon 2015 - £7m
British Gas 2016 - £4.5m
https://www.smart-energy.com/regional-news/europe-uk/british-gas-ofgem-smart-meter-deadline/
yes this was a while ago, but I assume they are once bitten twice shy,
and so the next time a man appears with a Smart Meter and installs it
while you are out, you know why..
Dave
Jack Harry Teesdale
Sep 25, 2023, 1:40:24 PM9/25/23
to
former supplier) but although my non-digital meter is well over 20 years
old I have not yet been 'offered' a smart meter. The criteria for
changing seems odd.
I would not be averse to having a SMETS2 smart meter to be able to take
part in Peak Save and other cost reducing tariff options but to date BG
show no interest in offering me one.
alan_m
Sep 25, 2023, 2:53:05 PM9/25/23
to
On 25/09/2023 18:40, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
> I would not be averse to having a SMETS2 smart meter to be able to take
> part in Peak Save and other cost reducing tariff options but to date BG
> show no interest in offering me one.
>
Have you tried requesting one?
> I would not be averse to having a SMETS2 smart meter to be able to take
> part in Peak Save and other cost reducing tariff options but to date BG
> show no interest in offering me one.
>
https://www.britishgas.co.uk/smart-home/smart-meters.html
NY
Sep 25, 2023, 3:13:24 PM9/25/23
to
"Jack Harry Teesdale" <noreply49...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:uesgm3$21bbs$1...@dont-email.me...
> I would not be averse to having a SMETS2 smart meter to be able to take
> part in Peak Save and other cost reducing tariff options but to date BG
> show no interest in offering me one.
Can I ask about how well people have found that smart meters communicate
with the In Home Device (console) and the central database (for the
company's app and web site)?
We had a smart electricity and smart gas meter fitted in June. To begin with
they both gave complete records (no missed readings) but after a couple of
months the gas meter stopped communicating with the IHD (*) and the
app/website or only updated once every couple of days. The Octopus app often
lists "we are waiting for today's results" or some such wording - and some
days those readings *never* arrive, or else they are partial - usually the
bar chart is complete for the first few hours after midnight but no
subsequent readings.
Octopus have done something remotely (maybe forcing something to reboot)
which cures the problem for a few days but it then comes back again. They
are sending someone to investigate, but I wondered whether anyone else had
experienced this?
In general, how long should it take for a day's midnight-to-midnight elec
and gas reading to show in the app? I find that usually by about 10 AM the
previous day's elec reading shows up, but sometimes nothing gets updated
until maybe 16:00-19:00. In the meantime I usually see two readings for
00:00 and 00:30, but nothing more - and then eventually the whole day's bar
chart readings are there, together with the midnight-to-midnight daily
usage.
Would you normally expect that a day's midnight-to-midnight usage figure
from the app should agree fairly well with a 10:00-10:00 (or thereabouts)
reading of the meter's own LCD display? Do smart meters tend to under-read
on the midnight-to-midnight usage results? I realise that it is the
cumulative reading every week/month that the elec/gas companies use for
working out the real bill, rather than using the sum of consecutive
midnight-to-midnight readings that the app might report.
My general impression of smart meters has been rather underwhelming: I
expected both the IHD and the app/web to give continuous up-to-date meter
values and usage so far today, rather than the app/web reading only being
updated once per day, and often a loooooooooong time after midnight when the
previous day's reading has ended.
(*) The IHD has a "Meter" menu option which reports the cumulative elec /
gas meter reading which should be the same as the readings on each meter's
own LCD display. For elec there is good agreement; for gas the IHD may
report the same value for several days and then suddenly jump up as if it
only occasionally gets an update.
news:uesgm3$21bbs$1...@dont-email.me...
> I would not be averse to having a SMETS2 smart meter to be able to take
> part in Peak Save and other cost reducing tariff options but to date BG
> show no interest in offering me one.
with the In Home Device (console) and the central database (for the
company's app and web site)?
We had a smart electricity and smart gas meter fitted in June. To begin with
they both gave complete records (no missed readings) but after a couple of
months the gas meter stopped communicating with the IHD (*) and the
app/website or only updated once every couple of days. The Octopus app often
lists "we are waiting for today's results" or some such wording - and some
days those readings *never* arrive, or else they are partial - usually the
bar chart is complete for the first few hours after midnight but no
subsequent readings.
Octopus have done something remotely (maybe forcing something to reboot)
which cures the problem for a few days but it then comes back again. They
are sending someone to investigate, but I wondered whether anyone else had
experienced this?
In general, how long should it take for a day's midnight-to-midnight elec
and gas reading to show in the app? I find that usually by about 10 AM the
previous day's elec reading shows up, but sometimes nothing gets updated
until maybe 16:00-19:00. In the meantime I usually see two readings for
00:00 and 00:30, but nothing more - and then eventually the whole day's bar
chart readings are there, together with the midnight-to-midnight daily
usage.
Would you normally expect that a day's midnight-to-midnight usage figure
from the app should agree fairly well with a 10:00-10:00 (or thereabouts)
reading of the meter's own LCD display? Do smart meters tend to under-read
on the midnight-to-midnight usage results? I realise that it is the
cumulative reading every week/month that the elec/gas companies use for
working out the real bill, rather than using the sum of consecutive
midnight-to-midnight readings that the app might report.
My general impression of smart meters has been rather underwhelming: I
expected both the IHD and the app/web to give continuous up-to-date meter
values and usage so far today, rather than the app/web reading only being
updated once per day, and often a loooooooooong time after midnight when the
previous day's reading has ended.
(*) The IHD has a "Meter" menu option which reports the cumulative elec /
gas meter reading which should be the same as the readings on each meter's
own LCD display. For elec there is good agreement; for gas the IHD may
report the same value for several days and then suddenly jump up as if it
only occasionally gets an update.
Tim+
Sep 25, 2023, 3:30:36 PM9/25/23
to
Doesn’t guarantee a quick smart meter fitment though and fitting time seems
to vary widely in different parts of the country.
Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
Andy Burns
Sep 25, 2023, 3:37:16 PM9/25/23
to
NY wrote:
> Can I ask about how well people have found that smart meters communicate
> with the In Home Device (console)
My SMETS1 meters were paired to each other and the IHD before the
> Can I ask about how well people have found that smart meters communicate
> with the In Home Device (console)
installer left my house, the various stories of it taking weeks after
installation to get them talking all sound wrong to me.
> and the central database (for the
> company's app and web site)?
course they went dumb, the meters still talk to the IHD properly though.
from e.g turning on a greedy appliance, and seeing watts go up on the IHD
> for gas the
> IHD may report the same value for several days and then suddenly jump up
> as if it only occasionally gets an update.
minutes to preserve battery, heating hasn't kicked-in here yet, so only
one period per day shows any gas usage for hot water. But once heating
season starts, it records the usage as it should twice per hour.
Robin
Sep 25, 2023, 3:52:06 PM9/25/23
to
On 25/09/2023 20:13, NY wrote:
> "Jack Harry Teesdale" <noreply49...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:uesgm3$21bbs$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>> I would not be averse to having a SMETS2 smart meter to be able to
>> take part in Peak Save and other cost reducing tariff options but to
>> date BG show no interest in offering me one.
>
> Can I ask about how well people have found that smart meters communicate
> with the In Home Device (console) and the central database (for the
> company's app and web site)?
>
My experience is much as Andy Burns save that our SMETS1 meters survived
> "Jack Harry Teesdale" <noreply49...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:uesgm3$21bbs$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>> I would not be averse to having a SMETS2 smart meter to be able to
>> take part in Peak Save and other cost reducing tariff options but to
>> date BG show no interest in offering me one.
>
> Can I ask about how well people have found that smart meters communicate
> with the In Home Device (console) and the central database (for the
> company's app and web site)?
>
the first switch of suppliers. SMETS2 have survived 3 so far.
And if push the button enough times you can find interesting stuff like
the power factor of the current load.
Tim+
Sep 25, 2023, 4:23:53 PM9/25/23
to
NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> "Jack Harry Teesdale" <noreply49...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:uesgm3$21bbs$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>> I would not be averse to having a SMETS2 smart meter to be able to take
>> part in Peak Save and other cost reducing tariff options but to date BG
>> show no interest in offering me one.
>
> Can I ask about how well people have found that smart meters communicate
> with the In Home Device (console) and the central database (for the
> company's app and web site)?
Our first SMETS2 meter lasted about a month before packing in. Took about
> "Jack Harry Teesdale" <noreply49...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:uesgm3$21bbs$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>> I would not be averse to having a SMETS2 smart meter to be able to take
>> part in Peak Save and other cost reducing tariff options but to date BG
>> show no interest in offering me one.
>
> Can I ask about how well people have found that smart meters communicate
> with the In Home Device (console) and the central database (for the
> company's app and web site)?
six months to get a replacement but, TOUCH WOOD, it’s been fine since.
(Probably a fatal mistake to say the above).
>
> We had a smart electricity and smart gas meter fitted in June. To begin with
> they both gave complete records (no missed readings) but after a couple of
> months the gas meter stopped communicating with the IHD (*) and the
> app/website or only updated once every couple of days. The Octopus app often
> lists "we are waiting for today's results" or some such wording - and some
> days those readings *never* arrive, or else they are partial - usually the
> bar chart is complete for the first few hours after midnight but no
> subsequent readings.
>
> Octopus have done something remotely (maybe forcing something to reboot)
> which cures the problem for a few days but it then comes back again. They
> are sending someone to investigate, but I wondered whether anyone else had
> experienced this?
The tech seems decidedly flaky.
>
> In general, how long should it take for a day's midnight-to-midnight elec
> and gas reading to show in the app?
transmitted to the IHD to the app (presumably via Octopus servers) so I see
all my usage more or less instantly without having to wait for Octopus to
receive the encrypted data sent to the DDC.
Jack Harry Teesdale
Sep 25, 2023, 5:13:18 PM9/25/23
to
On 25/09/2023 19:53, alan_m wrote:
> On 25/09/2023 18:40, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
>
>> I would not be averse to having a SMETS2 smart meter to be able to
>> take part in Peak Save and other cost reducing tariff options but to
>> date BG show no interest in offering me one.
>>
>
> Have you tried requesting one?
> https://www.britishgas.co.uk/smart-home/smart-meters.html
>
Yes, obviously.
> On 25/09/2023 18:40, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:
>
>> I would not be averse to having a SMETS2 smart meter to be able to
>> take part in Peak Save and other cost reducing tariff options but to
>> date BG show no interest in offering me one.
>>
>
> Have you tried requesting one?
> https://www.britishgas.co.uk/smart-home/smart-meters.html
>
Jack Harry Teesdale
Sep 25, 2023, 5:18:27 PM9/25/23
to
all suppliers are offering price capped products?
>
> Doesn’t guarantee a quick smart meter fitment though and fitting time seems
> to vary widely in different parts of the country.
>
> Tim
>
Tim+
Sep 25, 2023, 5:44:42 PM9/25/23
to
of your consumption or be flexible about when you use your power you could
be a lot better off switching to a company that offers smart variable
tariffs. If you have solar panels, a battery or an EV Octopus offer a
wealth of different tariffs that could work for you.
Switching isn’t hard these days. Really really easy actually.
Jack Harry Teesdale
Sep 25, 2023, 5:48:21 PM9/25/23
to
switching ATM, I have in the past been a regular switcher but until BG
will fit me a smart meter my options are limited.
>
>
>
David Wade
Sep 25, 2023, 6:19:22 PM9/25/23
to
On 25/09/2023 20:13, NY wrote:
SMETS 2 meter. I have:-
https://glowmarkt.com/bright
when I checked it was showing half hour usage up till about an hour ago...
... I also have a Drayton Wiser smart heating controller. They sold a
second in-house display which seems to send data back via the wiser hub.
You can then display this in the wiser app...
https://wiser.draytoncontrols.co.uk/insights
>
> (*) The IHD has a "Meter" menu option which reports the cumulative elec
> / gas meter reading which should be the same as the readings on each
> meter's own LCD display. For elec there is good agreement; for gas the
> IHD may report the same value for several days and then suddenly jump up
> as if it only occasionally gets an update.
looks ok. Sounds like your gas meter is having trouble linking to the
electric meter to pass the data across. They are supposed to be working
to fix this...
https://www.smartme.co.uk/home-area-network.html
Dave
Dave
Tim+
Sep 26, 2023, 2:24:10 AM9/26/23
to
Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply49...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 25/09/2023 22:44, Tim+ wrote:
>>> Yes I know that but who wants the aggravation of switching when almost
>>> all suppliers are offering price capped products?
>>>
>>
>> Depends on your usage pattern. If you can time-shift a significant amount
>> of your consumption or be flexible about when you use your power you could
>> be a lot better off switching to a company that offers smart variable
>> tariffs. If you have solar panels, a battery or an EV Octopus offer a
>> wealth of different tariffs that could work for you.
>>
>> Switching isn’t hard these days. Really really easy actually.
>>
>> Tim
>
> Well as I don't have any of the above there is not much to be gained by
> switching ATM, I have in the past been a regular switcher but until BG
> will fit me a smart meter my options are limited.
Fair enough but not having a smart meter doesn’t tie you to a company.
>>> Yes I know that but who wants the aggravation of switching when almost
>>> all suppliers are offering price capped products?
>>>
>>
>> Depends on your usage pattern. If you can time-shift a significant amount
>> of your consumption or be flexible about when you use your power you could
>> be a lot better off switching to a company that offers smart variable
>> tariffs. If you have solar panels, a battery or an EV Octopus offer a
>> wealth of different tariffs that could work for you.
>>
>> Switching isn’t hard these days. Really really easy actually.
>>
>> Tim
>
> Well as I don't have any of the above there is not much to be gained by
> switching ATM, I have in the past been a regular switcher but until BG
> will fit me a smart meter my options are limited.
Indeed, many folk switch specifically to get a smart meter.
Theo
Sep 26, 2023, 7:38:21 AM9/26/23
to
NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> Octopus have done something remotely (maybe forcing something to reboot)
> which cures the problem for a few days but it then comes back again. They
> are sending someone to investigate, but I wondered whether anyone else had
> experienced this?
My SMETS2 was installed during lockdown so they didn't do the IHD
> Octopus have done something remotely (maybe forcing something to reboot)
> which cures the problem for a few days but it then comes back again. They
> are sending someone to investigate, but I wondered whether anyone else had
> experienced this?
setup/walkthrough at the time, they just handed it to me and said it would
start working soon. It didn't. After a few weeks I pestered Octopus and
they did something at their end and told me how to reset the IHD, and then
it started working. It has stayed working since.
No gas here, so can't comment on that.
> In general, how long should it take for a day's midnight-to-midnight elec
> and gas reading to show in the app? I find that usually by about 10 AM the
> previous day's elec reading shows up, but sometimes nothing gets updated
> until maybe 16:00-19:00. In the meantime I usually see two readings for
> 00:00 and 00:30, but nothing more - and then eventually the whole day's bar
> chart readings are there, together with the midnight-to-midnight daily
> usage.
At the moment it only shows the current day's readings up until 1am
(midnight GMT?) and then the previous day's readings are there in full.
> Would you normally expect that a day's midnight-to-midnight usage figure
> from the app should agree fairly well with a 10:00-10:00 (or thereabouts)
> reading of the meter's own LCD display? Do smart meters tend to under-read
> on the midnight-to-midnight usage results? I realise that it is the
> cumulative reading every week/month that the elec/gas companies use for
> working out the real bill, rather than using the sum of consecutive
> midnight-to-midnight readings that the app might report.
coarse grained readings.
I've stopped using the Hildegard Bright app, but when I did so it got timely
half-hour readings. Maybe that 'encouraged' the meter to send them more
frequently, I don't know. Or maybe they are communicated every half hour,
but the Octopus website only updates once a day?
It's also possible to get widgets ('consumer access devices' or CADs) which
talk Zigbee and get live data from the meter and send it to the cloud,
rather than going via the DCC. Hildegard sell those, others do too. If
you're on Octopus the Octopus Home Mini looks like a good option, if you're
prepared to join the waiting list.
Theo
David Wade
Sep 26, 2023, 10:54:27 AM9/26/23
to
On 26/09/2023 12:38, Theo wrote:
> NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>> Octopus have done something remotely (maybe forcing something to reboot)
>> which cures the problem for a few days but it then comes back again. They
>> are sending someone to investigate, but I wondered whether anyone else had
>> experienced this?
>
> My SMETS2 was installed during lockdown so they didn't do the IHD
> setup/walkthrough at the time, they just handed it to me and said it would
> start working soon. It didn't. After a few weeks I pestered Octopus and
> they did something at their end and told me how to reset the IHD, and then
> it started working. It has stayed working since.
>
> No gas here, so can't comment on that.
>
>> In general, how long should it take for a day's midnight-to-midnight elec
>> and gas reading to show in the app? I find that usually by about 10 AM the
>> previous day's elec reading shows up, but sometimes nothing gets updated
>> until maybe 16:00-19:00. In the meantime I usually see two readings for
>> 00:00 and 00:30, but nothing more - and then eventually the whole day's bar
>> chart readings are there, together with the midnight-to-midnight daily
>> usage.
>
For the suppliers app, this is as expected. Their systems only download
> NY <m...@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>> Octopus have done something remotely (maybe forcing something to reboot)
>> which cures the problem for a few days but it then comes back again. They
>> are sending someone to investigate, but I wondered whether anyone else had
>> experienced this?
>
> My SMETS2 was installed during lockdown so they didn't do the IHD
> setup/walkthrough at the time, they just handed it to me and said it would
> start working soon. It didn't. After a few weeks I pestered Octopus and
> they did something at their end and told me how to reset the IHD, and then
> it started working. It has stayed working since.
>
> No gas here, so can't comment on that.
>
>> In general, how long should it take for a day's midnight-to-midnight elec
>> and gas reading to show in the app? I find that usually by about 10 AM the
>> previous day's elec reading shows up, but sometimes nothing gets updated
>> until maybe 16:00-19:00. In the meantime I usually see two readings for
>> 00:00 and 00:30, but nothing more - and then eventually the whole day's bar
>> chart readings are there, together with the midnight-to-midnight daily
>> usage.
>
the data overnight. The EON app is worse, it may only update every few days.
> I've previously had it showing readings a few minutes after each half hour.
> At the moment it only shows the current day's readings up until 1am
> (midnight GMT?) and then the previous day's readings are there in full.
>
>> Would you normally expect that a day's midnight-to-midnight usage figure
>> from the app should agree fairly well with a 10:00-10:00 (or thereabouts)
>> reading of the meter's own LCD display? Do smart meters tend to under-read
>> on the midnight-to-midnight usage results? I realise that it is the
>> cumulative reading every week/month that the elec/gas companies use for
>> working out the real bill, rather than using the sum of consecutive
>> midnight-to-midnight readings that the app might report.
>
> Mine is set for half hourly readings - I don't know what happens for more
> coarse grained readings.
>
> I've stopped using the Hildegard Bright app, but when I did so it got timely
> half-hour readings. Maybe that 'encouraged' the meter to send them more
> frequently, I don't know. Or maybe they are communicated every half hour,
> but the Octopus website only updates once a day?
>
> It's also possible to get widgets ('consumer access devices' or CADs) which
> talk Zigbee and get live data from the meter and send it to the cloud,
> rather than going via the DCC. Hildegard sell those, others do too. If
> you're on Octopus the Octopus Home Mini looks like a good option, if you're
> prepared to join the waiting list.
>
> Theo
Dave
Roland Perry
Oct 2, 2023, 1:32:43 PM10/2/23
to
In message <uesteu$23pl3$2...@dont-email.me>, at 22:18:19 on Mon, 25 Sep
2023, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply49...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>Nothing is guaranteed these days. (except death and taxes)
And train strikes/cancellations. Although I suppose that's a form of
corporate suicide, which is death.
--
Roland Perry
2023, Jack Harry Teesdale <noreply49...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>Nothing is guaranteed these days. (except death and taxes)
corporate suicide, which is death.
--
Roland Perry
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