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Electrical socket from light switch for cctv.
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malcolmf
Nov 16, 2012, 7:56:53 PM11/16/12
to
Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
light switch? The socket would only be a single and would be at approx
7/8 feet high. I know its possible and that the draw is very low but
more asking if its against uk regulations. Cctv power is an ac to dc
converter with standard uk plug.
Thank you
--
malcolmf
Java Jive
Nov 16, 2012, 9:19:22 PM11/16/12
to
IANAE, but AIUI, you have to use a fused spur. Otherwise someone
could come along and plug an electric fire or kettle into it, and fry
the lighting circuit, possibly setting fire to the house as a result.
This means that if the CCTV PSU is of the wall-wart variety, it's a
no-no - you'll have to take a spur off a ring main - but if it's
an inline unit, as with say Dell laptop PSUs, then you can cut off the
three-pin plug and wire the power lead into the fused spur outlet. Of
course, the fuse in the spur unit needs to be 3A or less.
=========================================================
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html
could come along and plug an electric fire or kettle into it, and fry
the lighting circuit, possibly setting fire to the house as a result.
This means that if the CCTV PSU is of the wall-wart variety, it's a
no-no - you'll have to take a spur off a ring main - but if it's
an inline unit, as with say Dell laptop PSUs, then you can cut off the
three-pin plug and wire the power lead into the fused spur outlet. Of
course, the fuse in the spur unit needs to be 3A or less.
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html
Bill Wright
Nov 16, 2012, 9:54:36 PM11/16/12
to
malcolmf wrote:
> Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
> light switch?
>
Where will you get the neutral from?
> Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
> light switch?
>
Bill
charles
Nov 17, 2012, 2:48:39 AM11/17/12
to
In article <malcolmf...@diybanter.com>,
you should use a 2 Amp socket.
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.18
Archibald
Nov 17, 2012, 2:52:42 AM11/17/12
to
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:19:22 +0000, Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:
>IANAE, but AIUI, you have to use a fused spur. Otherwise someone
>could come along and plug an electric fire or kettle into it, and fry
>the lighting circuit, possibly setting fire to the house as a result.
>
Killing the cat, sparking off a nuclear event, accellerating global
warming and throwing the western world back into the dark ages.
Most houses have circuit breakers these days you know, before that
there were fuses.
Although it may be frowned on to dangle the heating system, shower and
grandmas iron lung off the lighting circuit, I still wouldn,t think
that the purchase of a fire extinguisher would be a worthwhile
enterprise.
>This means that if the CCTV PSU is of the wall-wart variety, it's a
>no-no - you'll have to take a spur off a ring main - but if it's
>an inline unit, as with say Dell laptop PSUs, then you can cut off the
>three-pin plug and wire the power lead into the fused spur outlet. Of
>course, the fuse in the spur unit needs to be 3A or less.
>
>On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 00:56:53 +0000, malcolmf
><malcolmf...@diybanter.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
>> light switch? The socket would only be a single and would be at approx
>> 7/8 feet high. I know its possible and that the draw is very low but
>> more asking if its against uk regulations. Cctv power is an ac to dc
>> converter with standard uk plug.
>>
>> Thank you
I cannot recollect what the regulations say, but bathroom fans are fed
from the lighting circuit and the loads ust be similar.
Practically as a minimum I would use a dedicated connector that
couldn't be connected to accidentally, or better still wire directly
to a fused spur. Mounted outside, the camera should from a practical
point of view be on its own circuit with an RCBO protecting it, unless
of course you enjoy hunting around for ladders, tools etc in the dark
during a thundestorm.
HN
wrote:
>IANAE, but AIUI, you have to use a fused spur. Otherwise someone
>could come along and plug an electric fire or kettle into it, and fry
>the lighting circuit, possibly setting fire to the house as a result.
>
warming and throwing the western world back into the dark ages.
Most houses have circuit breakers these days you know, before that
there were fuses.
Although it may be frowned on to dangle the heating system, shower and
grandmas iron lung off the lighting circuit, I still wouldn,t think
that the purchase of a fire extinguisher would be a worthwhile
enterprise.
>This means that if the CCTV PSU is of the wall-wart variety, it's a
>no-no - you'll have to take a spur off a ring main - but if it's
>an inline unit, as with say Dell laptop PSUs, then you can cut off the
>three-pin plug and wire the power lead into the fused spur outlet. Of
>course, the fuse in the spur unit needs to be 3A or less.
>
>On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 00:56:53 +0000, malcolmf
><malcolmf...@diybanter.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
>> light switch? The socket would only be a single and would be at approx
>> 7/8 feet high. I know its possible and that the draw is very low but
>> more asking if its against uk regulations. Cctv power is an ac to dc
>> converter with standard uk plug.
>>
>> Thank you
from the lighting circuit and the loads ust be similar.
Practically as a minimum I would use a dedicated connector that
couldn't be connected to accidentally, or better still wire directly
to a fused spur. Mounted outside, the camera should from a practical
point of view be on its own circuit with an RCBO protecting it, unless
of course you enjoy hunting around for ladders, tools etc in the dark
during a thundestorm.
HN
Tim+
Nov 17, 2012, 3:06:05 AM11/17/12
to
don't see why not but you should use a round pin 5amp socket to avoid any
possibility of a normal appliance being plugged in.
Tim
Archibald
Nov 17, 2012, 3:18:27 AM11/17/12
to
:-)
HN
harry
Nov 17, 2012, 4:09:07 AM11/17/12
to
plugging anything else into it
http://www.screwfix.com/p/crabtree-5a-unswitched-socket/59778
You will have to find a neutral and earth.
Archibald
Nov 17, 2012, 5:07:49 AM11/17/12
to
for eons and was only superceeded when the stairs encountered on Earth
forced them to adopt storage batteries and levitation.
HN
Gazz
Nov 17, 2012, 6:43:32 AM11/17/12
to
"malcolmf" <malcolmf...@diybanter.com> wrote in message
news:malcolmf...@diybanter.com...
as if it's a standard wired one, you need to run the signal wire back to the
DVR, then get some 'shotgun' cable, which is 2 cables moulded side by side,
signal on one, and power on the other,
fit the wall wart next to the DVR, and connect it's output to the power
wires in the shotgun cable, pleg other end of cable into camera as normal.
I did similar to this on my cctv setup, but used an 18 way, 15 amp 12 volt
psu in a wall mounting box for the power to the camera's,
If the camera is a wireless jobbie, would it not be easier to extend the 12
volt wire from the wall wart and run it to the camera.
jgharston
Nov 17, 2012, 7:10:54 AM11/17/12
to
The OP asked about a CCTV socket off a light switch, not off
a lighting circuit. Admittedly, a bit of ambiguity there. If he
means "use a light switch to turn the power socket on and
off", then, yes, it's allowable as long as the circuit is /supplied/
from a power circuit and the circuit is protected by a 5A fuse/etc
upstream from the switch.
Eg: ring main-->5A Fused Spur---->5A "light" switch--->CCTV socket
I have exactly the same arrangement in my roofspace with "cctv"
replaced with "light".
If the OP means "can I take power from a lighting circuit", the
answer is a clear "no".
JGH
a lighting circuit. Admittedly, a bit of ambiguity there. If he
means "use a light switch to turn the power socket on and
off", then, yes, it's allowable as long as the circuit is /supplied/
from a power circuit and the circuit is protected by a 5A fuse/etc
upstream from the switch.
Eg: ring main-->5A Fused Spur---->5A "light" switch--->CCTV socket
I have exactly the same arrangement in my roofspace with "cctv"
replaced with "light".
If the OP means "can I take power from a lighting circuit", the
answer is a clear "no".
JGH
meow...@care2.com
Nov 17, 2012, 7:22:39 AM11/17/12
to
NT
Tim+
Nov 17, 2012, 7:33:23 AM11/17/12
to
Tim
Dave Plowman (News)
Nov 17, 2012, 7:59:11 AM11/17/12
to
In article <lhsda8lj01arvhpdv...@4ax.com>,
circuits should be protected by a suitable device in the CU to prevent the
wiring frying even in event of a dead short.
--
*If tennis elbow is painful, imagine suffering with tennis balls *
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> IANAE, but AIUI, you have to use a fused spur. Otherwise someone
> could come along and plug an electric fire or kettle into it, and fry
> the lighting circuit, possibly setting fire to the house as a result.
Then you need to have the house wiring seen to immediately. Lighting
> IANAE, but AIUI, you have to use a fused spur. Otherwise someone
> could come along and plug an electric fire or kettle into it, and fry
> the lighting circuit, possibly setting fire to the house as a result.
circuits should be protected by a suitable device in the CU to prevent the
wiring frying even in event of a dead short.
--
*If tennis elbow is painful, imagine suffering with tennis balls *
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
JTM
Nov 17, 2012, 8:15:21 AM11/17/12
to
In article <raoea8lai3s32vo00...@4ax.com>,
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pp6nm6gcpes9hi3/wires.jpg
John
someone wrote:
> >You will have to find a neutral and earth.
Would these do?
> >You will have to find a neutral and earth.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pp6nm6gcpes9hi3/wires.jpg
John
John Rumm
Nov 17, 2012, 8:59:11 AM11/17/12
to
often done for things like extractor fans etc.
You can install sockets as well, although it is preferable to use one of
the small round pin shuttered 2 or 5A ones to prevent someone connecting
high current devices to the circuit and tripping it.
However connecting to a light switch as such may be a problem since you
usually only have two live wires (one switched) and no neutral.
Unless specified by the manufacturer, there is not usually any
requirement for a fused connection unit (aka spur unit) since they
circuit will typically be protected with a MCB that has a rating well
below the current carrying capacity of the cable.
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Jules Richardson
Nov 17, 2012, 12:30:09 PM11/17/12
to
ARW
Nov 17, 2012, 12:56:28 PM11/17/12
to
--
Adam
ARW
Nov 17, 2012, 1:17:34 PM11/17/12
to
Gazz wrote:
> "malcolmf" <malcolmf...@diybanter.com> wrote in message
> news:malcolmf...@diybanter.com...
> >
> > Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of
> > a light switch? The socket would only be a single and would be at
> > approx 7/8 feet high. I know its possible and that the draw is very
> > low but more asking if its against uk regulations. Cctv power is an
> > ac to dc converter with standard uk plug.
>
> Is the camera wireless or something then?
>
> as if it's a standard wired one, you need to run the signal wire back
> to the DVR, then get some 'shotgun' cable, which is 2 cables moulded
> side by side, signal on one, and power on the other,
All the CCTV I fit uses CAT5 cable.
> "malcolmf" <malcolmf...@diybanter.com> wrote in message
> news:malcolmf...@diybanter.com...
> >
> > Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of
> > a light switch? The socket would only be a single and would be at
> > approx 7/8 feet high. I know its possible and that the draw is very
> > low but more asking if its against uk regulations. Cctv power is an
> > ac to dc converter with standard uk plug.
>
> Is the camera wireless or something then?
>
> as if it's a standard wired one, you need to run the signal wire back
> to the DVR, then get some 'shotgun' cable, which is 2 cables moulded
> side by side, signal on one, and power on the other,
--
Adam
ARW
Nov 17, 2012, 1:18:33 PM11/17/12
to
--
Adam
John Rumm
Nov 17, 2012, 4:41:02 PM11/17/12
to
Gazz
Nov 17, 2012, 6:01:31 PM11/17/12
to
>> as if it's a standard wired one, you need to run the signal wire back
>> to the DVR, then get some 'shotgun' cable, which is 2 cables moulded
>> side by side, signal on one, and power on the other,
>
> All the CCTV I fit uses CAT5 cable.
to fanny about with baluns and all that.
it could be one of those 5 quid chingchong cameras off fleabay. a pair of
baluns would be 20 times what the camera is worth (worth not cost :)
Bill Wright
Nov 18, 2012, 12:13:59 AM11/18/12
to
ARW wrote:
> CT100 would be Bill's prefered cable:-)
>
The best way to use coax for mains is to use the inner for line and the
> CT100 would be Bill's prefered cable:-)
>
outer for neutral. Don't bother about an earth. No-one bothers
connecting the earth these days. It's just a hang-over from the early
days of radio when a good earth was needed for reception. Note that
when you power your electric fire through coax you actually save on your
electricity bill because the coax gets very hot and helps warm the room.
There is no cost for this because it's the same electricity as is going
through the fire, so you get the benefit of it twice. If the small of
burning plastic bothers you just push the coax under the rug.
Bill
Bill Wright
Nov 18, 2012, 12:17:07 AM11/18/12
to
John Rumm wrote:
>> CT100 would be Bill's prefered cable:-)
>
> It would only be fair, he had seen the way electricians wire aerials ;-)
Don't get me started.
>> CT100 would be Bill's prefered cable:-)
>
> It would only be fair, he had seen the way electricians wire aerials ;-)
http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/roguesgallery/035.shtml
Bill
charles
Nov 18, 2012, 12:35:53 AM11/18/12
to
In article <k89qqm$s6v$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,
Bill's not wrong. When a student and working with SSEB, I came across a
small area in Edinburgh which was wired with "concentric" mains cable.
Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com> wrote:
> ARW wrote:
> > CT100 would be Bill's prefered cable:-)
> >
> The best way to use coax for mains is to use the inner for line and the
> outer for neutral. Don't bother about an earth.
[Snip]
> ARW wrote:
> > CT100 would be Bill's prefered cable:-)
> >
> The best way to use coax for mains is to use the inner for line and the
> outer for neutral. Don't bother about an earth.
Bill's not wrong. When a student and working with SSEB, I came across a
small area in Edinburgh which was wired with "concentric" mains cable.
Bill Wright
Nov 18, 2012, 12:47:28 AM11/18/12
to
charles wrote:
> In article <k89qqm$s6v$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,
> Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com> wrote:
>> ARW wrote:
>
>>> CT100 would be Bill's prefered cable:-)
>>>
>> The best way to use coax for mains is to use the inner for line and the
>> outer for neutral. Don't bother about an earth.
>
> [Snip]
>
> Bill's not wrong. When a student and working with SSEB, I came across a
> small area in Edinburgh which was wired with "concentric" mains cable.
>
Well there you are then. What's good enough for Auld Reekie is good
> In article <k89qqm$s6v$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,
> Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com> wrote:
>> ARW wrote:
>
>>> CT100 would be Bill's prefered cable:-)
>>>
>> The best way to use coax for mains is to use the inner for line and the
>> outer for neutral. Don't bother about an earth.
>
> [Snip]
>
> Bill's not wrong. When a student and working with SSEB, I came across a
> small area in Edinburgh which was wired with "concentric" mains cable.
>
enough for me. What was the csa of the inner, by the way? A tad more
than 1mm2 I would guess?
Of course nowadays they use coax with two inners for mains supplies...
Bill
harry
Nov 18, 2012, 2:15:02 AM11/18/12
to
On Nov 18, 5:47 am, Bill Wright <b...@invalid.com> wrote:
> charles wrote:
> > In article <k89qqm$s6...@speranza.aioe.org>,
conductor, half the strands were individually insulated, which were
neutrals and the the other were not, which were the earth.
Haven't seen any for forty years.
It was supposed to be safer as the live conductor was inside the
others.
> charles wrote:
> > In article <k89qqm$s6...@speranza.aioe.org>,
> > Bill Wright <b...@invalid.com> wrote:
> >> ARW wrote:
>
> >>> CT100 would be Bill's prefered cable:-)
>
> >> The best way to use coax for mains is to use the inner for line and the
> >> outer for neutral. Don't bother about an earth.
>
> > [Snip]
>
> > Bill's not wrong. When a student and working with SSEB, I came across a
> > small area in Edinburgh which was wired with "concentric" mains cable.
>
> Well there you are then. What's good enough for Auld Reekie is good
> enough for me. What was the csa of the inner, by the way? A tad more
> than 1mm2 I would guess?
>
> Of course nowadays they use coax with two inners for mains supplies...
>
> Bill
There was indeed coax for mains. The core was live. Of the outer
> >> ARW wrote:
>
> >>> CT100 would be Bill's prefered cable:-)
>
> >> The best way to use coax for mains is to use the inner for line and the
> >> outer for neutral. Don't bother about an earth.
>
> > [Snip]
>
> > Bill's not wrong. When a student and working with SSEB, I came across a
> > small area in Edinburgh which was wired with "concentric" mains cable.
>
> Well there you are then. What's good enough for Auld Reekie is good
> enough for me. What was the csa of the inner, by the way? A tad more
> than 1mm2 I would guess?
>
> Of course nowadays they use coax with two inners for mains supplies...
>
> Bill
conductor, half the strands were individually insulated, which were
neutrals and the the other were not, which were the earth.
Haven't seen any for forty years.
It was supposed to be safer as the live conductor was inside the
others.
The Natural Philosopher
Nov 18, 2012, 3:33:51 AM11/18/12
to
> Bill
--
Ineptocracy
(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
diminishing number of producers.
John Rumm
Nov 18, 2012, 5:00:57 AM11/18/12
to
> Haven't seen any for forty years.
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=File:TNSUsingPMECutout3.jpg
> It was supposed to be safer as the live conductor was inside the
> others.
steal electricity.
meow...@care2.com
Nov 18, 2012, 6:39:44 AM11/18/12
to
NT
A.Lee
Nov 18, 2012, 7:02:59 AM11/18/12
to
<meow...@care2.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, November 17, 2012 6:18 adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
13 amps continuous if it is on a plasterboard ceiling, covered by
thermal insulation.
A change from 6A to 10A CB would suffice if the 6A was likely to be
exceeded, and still gives a big margin for safety of the cable.
Apart from some heaters and other large current eaters, lighting
circuits would be quite capable of carrying a number of socket outlets
if they were marked for low wattage appliances.
It is common for extractor fans and TV boosters/Sky boxes to run from
the lighting circuit in an attic.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.
> On Saturday, November 17, 2012 6:18 adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> > meow...@care2.com wrote:
> > > Its fine to connect it to a lighting circuit using a shuttered 2A or
> > > 5A round pin socket, or an FCU, but not a 13A socket.
>
> > Not even a 13A socket that is labelled CCTV ONLY?
>
> I didn't think that was regs compliant. Plugging normal loads in would
> result in circuit overload.
Considering most lighting circuits are in 1.5mm T+E, the cable can run
> > > Its fine to connect it to a lighting circuit using a shuttered 2A or
> > > 5A round pin socket, or an FCU, but not a 13A socket.
>
> > Not even a 13A socket that is labelled CCTV ONLY?
>
> I didn't think that was regs compliant. Plugging normal loads in would
> result in circuit overload.
13 amps continuous if it is on a plasterboard ceiling, covered by
thermal insulation.
A change from 6A to 10A CB would suffice if the 6A was likely to be
exceeded, and still gives a big margin for safety of the cable.
Apart from some heaters and other large current eaters, lighting
circuits would be quite capable of carrying a number of socket outlets
if they were marked for low wattage appliances.
It is common for extractor fans and TV boosters/Sky boxes to run from
the lighting circuit in an attic.
--
To reply by e-mail, change the ' + ' to 'plus'.
Dave Liquorice
Nov 18, 2012, 7:04:10 AM11/18/12
to
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 03:39:44 -0800 (PST), meow...@care2.com wrote:
>> Not even a 13A socket that is labelled CCTV ONLY?
>
> I didn't think that was regs compliant. Plugging normal loads in would
> result in circuit overload.
The lighting fuse/MCB would then operate...
>> Not even a 13A socket that is labelled CCTV ONLY?
>
> I didn't think that was regs compliant. Plugging normal loads in would
> result in circuit overload.
Donno what the regs say but I can't see what is wrong with a 13A socket
connected to the lighting circuit via a FCU and 3A (or smaller) fuse.
Everything suitably labled as well.
I think there still needs to be clarification from the OP of what he
means By "Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera
off of a light switch?"
Is he looking to derive a power feed from the back of a light switch
direct to a socket or use a light switch as a switch to a remote socket
fed from a ring main or lighting power?
--
Cheers
Dave.
meow...@care2.com
Nov 18, 2012, 8:55:04 AM11/18/12
to
On Sunday, November 18, 2012 12:02:59 PM UTC, A.Lee wrote:
> <meow2222> wrote:
> > On Saturday, November 17, 2012 6:18 adamwa... wrote:
Many electrical items are capable of more than the regs permit. Bell wire is a classic example.
NT
> <meow2222> wrote:
> > On Saturday, November 17, 2012 6:18 adamwa... wrote:
> > > meow2222 wrote:
> > > > Its fine to connect it to a lighting circuit using a shuttered 2A or
> > > > 5A round pin socket, or an FCU, but not a 13A socket.
> > > Not even a 13A socket that is labelled CCTV ONLY?
> > I didn't think that was regs compliant. Plugging normal loads in would
> > result in circuit overload.
> Considering most lighting circuits are in 1.5mm T+E, the cable can run
> 13 amps continuous if it is on a plasterboard ceiling, covered by
> thermal insulation.
> A change from 6A to 10A CB would suffice if the 6A was likely to be
> exceeded, and still gives a big margin for safety of the cable.
> Apart from some heaters and other large current eaters, lighting
> circuits would be quite capable of carrying a number of socket outlets
> if they were marked for low wattage appliances.
> It is common for extractor fans and TV boosters/Sky boxes to run from
> the lighting circuit in an attic.
'apart from.'
> > > > Its fine to connect it to a lighting circuit using a shuttered 2A or
> > > > 5A round pin socket, or an FCU, but not a 13A socket.
> > > Not even a 13A socket that is labelled CCTV ONLY?
> > I didn't think that was regs compliant. Plugging normal loads in would
> > result in circuit overload.
> Considering most lighting circuits are in 1.5mm T+E, the cable can run
> 13 amps continuous if it is on a plasterboard ceiling, covered by
> thermal insulation.
> A change from 6A to 10A CB would suffice if the 6A was likely to be
> exceeded, and still gives a big margin for safety of the cable.
> Apart from some heaters and other large current eaters, lighting
> circuits would be quite capable of carrying a number of socket outlets
> if they were marked for low wattage appliances.
> It is common for extractor fans and TV boosters/Sky boxes to run from
> the lighting circuit in an attic.
Many electrical items are capable of more than the regs permit. Bell wire is a classic example.
NT
John Rumm
Nov 18, 2012, 9:20:03 AM11/18/12
to
socket on a circuit with a lower rating.
The main concern would be that a high load connected to it would cause
tripping of the circuit, and that in turn may pose a risk due to loss of
lighting. Hence it is required that the designer make sensible
decisions. So rigging an extra socket on your landing that is fed from
the lighting circuit would not be sensible - since someone is very
likely to plug a vacuum cleaner into it etc. However one in the loft
space intended to feed an aerial amp really poses no risk. Likewise,
socket designed for powering table lamps etc would be fine on a lighting
circuit - although in that circumstance using a physically incompatible
socket would make sense since it will be in proximity to general purpose
power sockets.
Cables on lighting circuits are usually fairly generously oversized, and
the cable rating is significantly in excess of the circuit breaker. So
you can't create a situation where you can overload the cable.
(a similar situation exists with a typical cooker on a 6mm^2 radial with
a 32A MCB)
Dave Plowman (News)
Nov 18, 2012, 9:34:34 AM11/18/12
to
In article <c576f5aa-82fb-4e4d...@googlegroups.com>,
--
*The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up *
<meow...@care2.com> wrote:
> Many electrical items are capable of more than the regs permit. Bell
> wire is a classic example.
You could probably get fencing wire to 'work' too. ;-)
> Many electrical items are capable of more than the regs permit. Bell
> wire is a classic example.
--
*The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up *
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 18, 2012, 9:50:23 AM11/18/12
to
On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:54:36 -0000, Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com> wrote:
> malcolmf wrote:
>> Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
>> light switch?
>>
> malcolmf wrote:
>> Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
>> light switch?
>>
> Where will you get the neutral from?
My light switches have a neutral. The mains is under the floor, comes up through the lightswitch, to the lighting in the ceiling.
Just as well, as I fitted automatic lightswitch (with a PIR) which need power.
Mind you one of my light switches for some reason doesn't have a neutral present. But earth suffices as a neutral.
--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com
I want to die peacefully, in my sleep, like my Uncle Bob. Not screaming in terror like his passengers...
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 18, 2012, 9:54:55 AM11/18/12
to
People are more violently opposed to fur than leather because it's safer to harass rich women than motorcycle gangs.
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 18, 2012, 9:56:54 AM11/18/12
to
Saying that she is promiscuous is an understatement.
She'll go zero to sixty-nine in under fifteen seconds."
Dave Plowman (News)
Nov 18, 2012, 10:03:26 AM11/18/12
to
In article <3vydna5Npu8hczXN...@brightview.co.uk>,
a lighting circuit on a dimmer, and fooks the dimmer.
--
*If you don't like the news, go out and make some.
John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> Likewise,
> socket designed for powering table lamps etc would be fine on a lighting
> circuit - although in that circumstance using a physically incompatible
> socket would make sense since it will be in proximity to general purpose
> power sockets.
More likely scenario is someone plugs in a vacuum cleaner or whatever into
> Likewise,
> socket designed for powering table lamps etc would be fine on a lighting
> circuit - although in that circumstance using a physically incompatible
> socket would make sense since it will be in proximity to general purpose
> power sockets.
a lighting circuit on a dimmer, and fooks the dimmer.
--
*If you don't like the news, go out and make some.
critcher
Nov 18, 2012, 11:07:20 AM11/18/12
to
On 18/11/2012 14:50, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:54:36 -0000, Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> malcolmf wrote:
>>> Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
>>> light switch?
>>>
>> Where will you get the neutral from?
>
> My light switches have a neutral. The mains is under the floor, comes
> up through the lightswitch, to the lighting in the ceiling.
>
> Just as well, as I fitted automatic lightswitch (with a PIR) which need
> power.
>
> Mind you one of my light switches for some reason doesn't have a neutral
> present. But earth suffices as a neutral.
>
critcher said...................
> On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:54:36 -0000, Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> malcolmf wrote:
>>> Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
>>> light switch?
>>>
>> Where will you get the neutral from?
>
> My light switches have a neutral. The mains is under the floor, comes
> up through the lightswitch, to the lighting in the ceiling.
>
> Just as well, as I fitted automatic lightswitch (with a PIR) which need
> power.
>
> Mind you one of my light switches for some reason doesn't have a neutral
> present. But earth suffices as a neutral.
>
I remember my mum plugging her electric iron into the light socket, but
she couldn't see what she was ironing at night.
critcher
Nov 18, 2012, 11:10:59 AM11/18/12
to
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 18, 2012, 11:19:36 AM11/18/12
to
The children were lined up in the cafeteria of a Catholic elementary school for lunch. At the head of the table was a large pile of apples. The nun made a note, and posted on the apple tray: "Take only ONE. god is watching."
Moving further along the lunch line, at the other end of the table was a large pile of chocolate chip cookies. A child had written a note, "Take all you want. god is watching the apples."
critcher
Nov 18, 2012, 11:44:33 AM11/18/12
to
On 18/11/2012 16:19, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 16:07:20 -0000, critcher <w.g...@sky.com> wrote:
>
>> On 18/11/2012 14:50, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>>> On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:54:36 -0000, Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> malcolmf wrote:
>>>>> Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
>>>>> light switch?
>>>>>
>>>> Where will you get the neutral from?
>>>
>>> My light switches have a neutral. The mains is under the floor, comes
>>> up through the lightswitch, to the lighting in the ceiling.
>>>
>>> Just as well, as I fitted automatic lightswitch (with a PIR) which need
>>> power.
>>>
>>> Mind you one of my light switches for some reason doesn't have a neutral
>>> present. But earth suffices as a neutral.
>>
>> critcher said...................
>> I remember my mum plugging her electric iron into the light socket, but
>> she couldn't see what she was ironing at night.
>
> Didn't she have a http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300818581986 ?
>
yes, that was in my second post.
> On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 16:07:20 -0000, critcher <w.g...@sky.com> wrote:
>
>> On 18/11/2012 14:50, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>>> On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:54:36 -0000, Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> malcolmf wrote:
>>>>> Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
>>>>> light switch?
>>>>>
>>>> Where will you get the neutral from?
>>>
>>> My light switches have a neutral. The mains is under the floor, comes
>>> up through the lightswitch, to the lighting in the ceiling.
>>>
>>> Just as well, as I fitted automatic lightswitch (with a PIR) which need
>>> power.
>>>
>>> Mind you one of my light switches for some reason doesn't have a neutral
>>> present. But earth suffices as a neutral.
>>
>> critcher said...................
>> I remember my mum plugging her electric iron into the light socket, but
>> she couldn't see what she was ironing at night.
>
> Didn't she have a http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300818581986 ?
>
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 18, 2012, 11:53:08 AM11/18/12
to
An expert is someone who takes a subject you understand and makes it sound confusing.
ARW
Nov 18, 2012, 12:23:11 PM11/18/12
to
window and using strip connector to extend an aerial cable:-)
--
Adam
ARW
Nov 18, 2012, 12:30:55 PM11/18/12
to
meow...@care2.com wrote:
> On Saturday, November 17, 2012 6:18:34 PM UTC,
> adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> > meow...@care2.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, November 17, 2012 12:56:53 AM UTC, malcolmf wrote:
>
> > > > Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera
> > > > off of a light switch? The socket would only be a single and
> > > > would be at approx 7/8 feet high. I know its possible and that
> > > > the draw is very low but more asking if its against uk
> > > > regulations. Cctv power is an ac to dc converter with standard
> > > > uk plug.
> > > > Thank you
>
> > > Its fine to connect it to a lighting circuit using a shuttered 2A
> > > or 5A round pin socket, or an FCU, but not a 13A socket.
>
> > Not even a 13A socket that is labelled CCTV ONLY?
>
> I didn't think that was regs compliant. Plugging normal loads in
> would result in circuit overload.
I don't know of a reg that forbids it provided that the outlet is labelled
> On Saturday, November 17, 2012 6:18:34 PM UTC,
> adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> > meow...@care2.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, November 17, 2012 12:56:53 AM UTC, malcolmf wrote:
>
> > > > Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera
> > > > off of a light switch? The socket would only be a single and
> > > > would be at approx 7/8 feet high. I know its possible and that
> > > > the draw is very low but more asking if its against uk
> > > > regulations. Cctv power is an ac to dc converter with standard
> > > > uk plug.
> > > > Thank you
>
> > > Its fine to connect it to a lighting circuit using a shuttered 2A
> > > or 5A round pin socket, or an FCU, but not a 13A socket.
>
> > Not even a 13A socket that is labelled CCTV ONLY?
>
> I didn't think that was regs compliant. Plugging normal loads in
> would result in circuit overload.
for a specific appliance.
And if someone did plug a 3kW heater in then the fuse or MCB will trip and
nothing bad happens.
--
Adam
meow...@care2.com
Nov 18, 2012, 1:37:46 PM11/18/12
to
On Sunday, November 18, 2012 2:36:26 PM UTC, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <c576f5aa-82fb-4e4d...@googlegroups.com>,
NT
> In article <c576f5aa-82fb-4e4d...@googlegroups.com>,
> <meow2222> wrote:
> > Many electrical items are capable of more than the regs permit. Bell
> > wire is a classic example.
> You could probably get fencing wire to 'work' too. ;-)
That's about what they used when Victoria was still alive.
> > Many electrical items are capable of more than the regs permit. Bell
> > wire is a classic example.
> You could probably get fencing wire to 'work' too. ;-)
NT
Adam Funk
Nov 18, 2012, 3:46:43 PM11/18/12
to
On 2012-11-18, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <c576f5aa-82fb-4e4d...@googlegroups.com>,
> <meow...@care2.com> wrote:
>> Many electrical items are capable of more than the regs permit. Bell
>> wire is a classic example.
>
> You could probably get fencing wire to 'work' too. ;-)
That's how the electric fence was discovered, right?
> In article <c576f5aa-82fb-4e4d...@googlegroups.com>,
> <meow...@care2.com> wrote:
>> Many electrical items are capable of more than the regs permit. Bell
>> wire is a classic example.
>
> You could probably get fencing wire to 'work' too. ;-)
m...@privacy.net
Nov 18, 2012, 7:34:15 PM11/18/12
to
On 17 Nov,
John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> Unless specified by the manufacturer, there is not usually any
> requirement for a fused connection unit (aka spur unit) since they
> circuit will typically be protected with a MCB that has a rating well
> below the current carrying capacity of the cable.
>
But an FCU with 3a fuse may be required (or at least desirable) for
discrimination, to protect from loss of lighting due to plugging in an
appliance of excessive rating. This is assuming that a 13a socket outlet is
used to connect teh camera supply.
--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply
John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> Unless specified by the manufacturer, there is not usually any
> requirement for a fused connection unit (aka spur unit) since they
> circuit will typically be protected with a MCB that has a rating well
> below the current carrying capacity of the cable.
>
But an FCU with 3a fuse may be required (or at least desirable) for
discrimination, to protect from loss of lighting due to plugging in an
appliance of excessive rating. This is assuming that a 13a socket outlet is
used to connect teh camera supply.
--
B Thumbs
Change lycos to yahoo to reply
John Rumm
Nov 19, 2012, 8:49:33 AM11/19/12
to
get much discrimination with the arrangement in that order. (i.e. MCB
upline of a fuse). Also if fitting a socket to a lighting circuit it
will normally be for a specific purpose rather than a general socket, so
the chances of accidental overload should be small.
The main argument for using a FCU etc would be for connecting a bit of
fixed equipment that specifies it must be protected at 3A.
bert
Nov 20, 2012, 9:12:03 AM11/20/12
to
In message <k89qqm$s6v$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Bill Wright
<bi...@invalid.com> writes
>Note that when you power your electric fire through coax you actually
>save on your electricity bill because the coax gets very hot and helps
>warm the room. There is no cost for this because it's the same
>electricity as is going through the fire, so you get the benefit of it
>twice.
<Snip>
Err no. If you're getting heat out he cable it's because it has
resistance which reduces the total current through the cable/fire
combination.
Any heat gain in the cable has an equal reduction in the fire.
--
bert
<bi...@invalid.com> writes
>Note that when you power your electric fire through coax you actually
>save on your electricity bill because the coax gets very hot and helps
>warm the room. There is no cost for this because it's the same
>electricity as is going through the fire, so you get the benefit of it
>twice.
<Snip>
Err no. If you're getting heat out he cable it's because it has
resistance which reduces the total current through the cable/fire
combination.
Any heat gain in the cable has an equal reduction in the fire.
--
bert
bert
Nov 20, 2012, 9:21:58 AM11/20/12
to
In message <op.wny4t9naytk5n5@i7-940>, Lieutenant Scott <n...@spam.com>
writes
as a neutral in my room thermostat. Definite no-no. Also wrapping the
visible end with blue tape also a no-no.
--
bert
writes
>On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:54:36 -0000, Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> malcolmf wrote:
>>> Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
>>> light switch?
>>>
>> Where will you get the neutral from?
>
>My light switches have a neutral. The mains is under the floor, comes
>up through the lightswitch, to the lighting in the ceiling.
>
>Just as well, as I fitted automatic lightswitch (with a PIR) which need power.
>
>Mind you one of my light switches for some reason doesn't have a
>neutral present. But earth suffices as a neutral.
>
I had reason to look up the wring regs regarding using a surplus earth
>
>> malcolmf wrote:
>>> Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
>>> light switch?
>>>
>> Where will you get the neutral from?
>
>My light switches have a neutral. The mains is under the floor, comes
>up through the lightswitch, to the lighting in the ceiling.
>
>Just as well, as I fitted automatic lightswitch (with a PIR) which need power.
>
>Mind you one of my light switches for some reason doesn't have a
>neutral present. But earth suffices as a neutral.
>
as a neutral in my room thermostat. Definite no-no. Also wrapping the
visible end with blue tape also a no-no.
--
bert
polygonum
Nov 20, 2012, 9:56:31 AM11/20/12
to
On 20/11/2012 14:12, bert wrote:
> In message <k89qqm$s6v$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Bill Wright
> <bi...@invalid.com> writes
<haha>
> In message <k89qqm$s6v$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Bill Wright
> <bi...@invalid.com> writes
>> Note that when you power your electric fire through coax you actually
>> save on your electricity bill because the coax gets very hot and helps
>> warm the room. There is no cost for this because it's the same
>> electricity as is going through the fire, so you get the benefit of it
>> twice.
> <Snip>
>
> Err no. If you're getting heat out he cable it's because it has
> resistance which reduces the total current through the cable/fire
> combination.
> Any heat gain in the cable has an equal reduction in the fire.
--
Rod
John Williamson
Nov 20, 2012, 10:46:03 AM11/20/12
to
You're right about the resistance in the cable causing it to heat up.
But... You save money per hour of running time due to the reduced power
drawn, but you also get less total heat per hour for the same reason.
The cost per kilowatt hour of heat is the same, ignoring losses outside
the room.
--
Tciao for Now!
John.
Owain
Nov 20, 2012, 11:15:22 AM11/20/12
to
On Nov 20, 3:46 pm, John Williamson wrote:
> You're right about the resistance in the cable causing it to heat up.
> But... You save money per hour of running time due to the reduced power
> drawn, but you also get less total heat per hour for the same reason.
> The cost per kilowatt hour of heat is the same, ignoring losses outside
> the room.
Unless you're on a two-tier tariff, or one with a standing charge, in
> You're right about the resistance in the cable causing it to heat up.
> But... You save money per hour of running time due to the reduced power
> drawn, but you also get less total heat per hour for the same reason.
> The cost per kilowatt hour of heat is the same, ignoring losses outside
> the room.
which case the average cost per kilowatt-hour will fall the more you
use.
Owain
John Rumm
Nov 20, 2012, 12:12:54 PM11/20/12
to
On 20/11/2012 14:12, bert wrote:
John Rumm
Nov 20, 2012, 12:15:31 PM11/20/12
to
recent installation.
bert
Nov 20, 2012, 1:06:55 PM11/20/12
to
In message <ah1mtv...@mid.individual.net>, John Williamson
<johnwil...@btinternet.com> writes
Yes I agree In fact I had overlooked the impact of higher total
resistance resulting in less power, but the original poster of the
comment implied or stated you were getting extra heat for nothing, which
is wrong.
--
bert
<johnwil...@btinternet.com> writes
resistance resulting in less power, but the original poster of the
comment implied or stated you were getting extra heat for nothing, which
is wrong.
--
bert
bert
Nov 20, 2012, 1:09:59 PM11/20/12
to
In message <7pudnUKteb_cJzbN...@brightview.co.uk>, John
Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> writes
--
bert
Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> writes
>On 20/11/2012 14:12, bert wrote:
>> In message <k89qqm$s6v$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Bill Wright
>> <bi...@invalid.com> writes
>>> Note that when you power your electric fire through coax you actually
>>> save on your electricity bill because the coax gets very hot and helps
>>> warm the room. There is no cost for this because it's the same
>>> electricity as is going through the fire, so you get the benefit of it
>>> twice.
>> <Snip>
>>
>> Err no. If you're getting heat out he cable it's because it has
>> resistance which reduces the total current through the cable/fire
>> combination.
>> Any heat gain in the cable has an equal reduction in the fire.
>
>I think you may have missed Bill's tongue being firmly in his cheek there!
>
Irony and T-I-C don't do well on t'internet
>> In message <k89qqm$s6v$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Bill Wright
>> <bi...@invalid.com> writes
>>> Note that when you power your electric fire through coax you actually
>>> save on your electricity bill because the coax gets very hot and helps
>>> warm the room. There is no cost for this because it's the same
>>> electricity as is going through the fire, so you get the benefit of it
>>> twice.
>> <Snip>
>>
>> Err no. If you're getting heat out he cable it's because it has
>> resistance which reduces the total current through the cable/fire
>> combination.
>> Any heat gain in the cable has an equal reduction in the fire.
>
>I think you may have missed Bill's tongue being firmly in his cheek there!
>
--
bert
bert
Nov 20, 2012, 1:11:26 PM11/20/12
to
In message <7pudnX2teb9CJzbN...@brightview.co.uk>, John
Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> writes
earth.
--
bert
Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> writes
>On 20/11/2012 14:21, bert wrote:
>> In message <op.wny4t9naytk5n5@i7-940>, Lieutenant Scott <n...@spam.com>
>> writes
>>> On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:54:36 -0000, Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> malcolmf wrote:
>>>>> Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
>>>>> light switch?
>>>>>
>>>> Where will you get the neutral from?
>>>
>>> My light switches have a neutral. The mains is under the floor, comes
>>> up through the lightswitch, to the lighting in the ceiling.
>>>
>>> Just as well, as I fitted automatic lightswitch (with a PIR) which
>>> need power.
>>>
>>> Mind you one of my light switches for some reason doesn't have a
>>> neutral present. But earth suffices as a neutral.
>>>
>
>> I had reason to look up the wring regs regarding using a surplus earth
>> as a neutral in my room thermostat. Definite no-no. Also wrapping the
>> visible end with blue tape also a no-no.
>
>Using an earth as a neutral is a way to ensure an instant RCD trip on a
>recent installation.
>
If you want to use it as a neutral then you disconnect both ends from
>> In message <op.wny4t9naytk5n5@i7-940>, Lieutenant Scott <n...@spam.com>
>> writes
>>> On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:54:36 -0000, Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> malcolmf wrote:
>>>>> Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
>>>>> light switch?
>>>>>
>>>> Where will you get the neutral from?
>>>
>>> My light switches have a neutral. The mains is under the floor, comes
>>> up through the lightswitch, to the lighting in the ceiling.
>>>
>>> Just as well, as I fitted automatic lightswitch (with a PIR) which
>>> need power.
>>>
>>> Mind you one of my light switches for some reason doesn't have a
>>> neutral present. But earth suffices as a neutral.
>>>
>
>> I had reason to look up the wring regs regarding using a surplus earth
>> as a neutral in my room thermostat. Definite no-no. Also wrapping the
>> visible end with blue tape also a no-no.
>
>Using an earth as a neutral is a way to ensure an instant RCD trip on a
>recent installation.
>
earth.
--
bert
John Rumm
Nov 20, 2012, 2:49:33 PM11/20/12
to
and well ;-)
John Rumm
Nov 20, 2012, 2:52:00 PM11/20/12
to
can use it directly while still connected to earth at the far end.
(still its safe for him, because mains shocks are not dangerous he tells
us!)
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 20, 2012, 4:01:20 PM11/20/12
to
Why do they call it a TV set when you only get one?
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 20, 2012, 4:01:36 PM11/20/12
to
Yorkshire man takes his cat to the vet.
Yorkshireman: "Ayup, lad, I need to talk to thee about me cat."
Vet: "Is it a tom?"
Yorkshireman: "Nay, I've browt it wi' us."
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 20, 2012, 4:03:23 PM11/20/12
to
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 17:15:31 -0000, John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> On 20/11/2012 14:21, bert wrote:
>> In message <op.wny4t9naytk5n5@i7-940>, Lieutenant Scott <n...@spam.com>
>> writes
>>> On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:54:36 -0000, Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> malcolmf wrote:
>>>>> Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
>>>>> light switch?
>>>>>
>>>> Where will you get the neutral from?
>>>
>>> My light switches have a neutral. The mains is under the floor, comes
>>> up through the lightswitch, to the lighting in the ceiling.
>>>
>>> Just as well, as I fitted automatic lightswitch (with a PIR) which
>>> need power.
>>>
>>> Mind you one of my light switches for some reason doesn't have a
>>> neutral present. But earth suffices as a neutral.
>>>
>
>> I had reason to look up the wring regs regarding using a surplus earth
>> as a neutral in my room thermostat. Definite no-no. Also wrapping the
>> visible end with blue tape also a no-no.
>
> Using an earth as a neutral is a way to ensure an instant RCD trip on a
> recent installation.
I've got fuses for everything except lighting. Less nuisance trips.
> On 20/11/2012 14:21, bert wrote:
>> In message <op.wny4t9naytk5n5@i7-940>, Lieutenant Scott <n...@spam.com>
>> writes
>>> On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:54:36 -0000, Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> malcolmf wrote:
>>>>> Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
>>>>> light switch?
>>>>>
>>>> Where will you get the neutral from?
>>>
>>> My light switches have a neutral. The mains is under the floor, comes
>>> up through the lightswitch, to the lighting in the ceiling.
>>>
>>> Just as well, as I fitted automatic lightswitch (with a PIR) which
>>> need power.
>>>
>>> Mind you one of my light switches for some reason doesn't have a
>>> neutral present. But earth suffices as a neutral.
>>>
>
>> I had reason to look up the wring regs regarding using a surplus earth
>> as a neutral in my room thermostat. Definite no-no. Also wrapping the
>> visible end with blue tape also a no-no.
>
> Using an earth as a neutral is a way to ensure an instant RCD trip on a
> recent installation.
I have circuit breakers on the lighting to protect the PIR lighting system I put in my house which is a bit fragile to shorting if a bulb fails the wrong way.
I have no RCD. They don't protect me against fire, so I don't need them.
What's the difference between a church and a cinema?
In a church they say "Pray in the name of Jesus!"
In a cinema they say "Shut up for christ's sake!"
Adam Funk
Nov 20, 2012, 4:04:31 PM11/20/12
to
On 2012-11-20, John Rumm wrote:
> On 20/11/2012 14:12, bert wrote:
>> In message <k89qqm$s6v$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Bill Wright
>> <bi...@invalid.com> writes
>>> Note that when you power your electric fire through coax you actually
>>> save on your electricity bill because the coax gets very hot and helps
>>> warm the room. There is no cost for this because it's the same
>>> electricity as is going through the fire, so you get the benefit of it
>>> twice.
>> <Snip>
>>
>> Err no. If you're getting heat out he cable it's because it has
>> resistance which reduces the total current through the cable/fire
>> combination.
>> Any heat gain in the cable has an equal reduction in the fire.
>
> I think you may have missed Bill's tongue being firmly in his cheek there!
It's OK as long as people don't try it!
> On 20/11/2012 14:12, bert wrote:
>> In message <k89qqm$s6v$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, Bill Wright
>> <bi...@invalid.com> writes
>>> Note that when you power your electric fire through coax you actually
>>> save on your electricity bill because the coax gets very hot and helps
>>> warm the room. There is no cost for this because it's the same
>>> electricity as is going through the fire, so you get the benefit of it
>>> twice.
>> <Snip>
>>
>> Err no. If you're getting heat out he cable it's because it has
>> resistance which reduces the total current through the cable/fire
>> combination.
>> Any heat gain in the cable has an equal reduction in the fire.
>
> I think you may have missed Bill's tongue being firmly in his cheek there!
ARW
Nov 20, 2012, 4:39:59 PM11/20/12
to
say.
--
Adam
ARW
Nov 20, 2012, 4:41:10 PM11/20/12
to
Lieutenant Scott wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 14:21:58 -0000, bert <bert@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>
> > In message <op.wny4t9naytk5n5@i7-940>, Lieutenant Scott
> > <n...@spam.com> writes
> > > On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:54:36 -0000, Bill Wright
> > > <bi...@invalid.com> wrote:
> > > > malcolmf wrote:
> > > > > Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera
> > > > > off of a light switch?
> > > > >
> > > > Where will you get the neutral from?
> > >
> > > My light switches have a neutral. The mains is under the floor,
> > > comes up through the lightswitch, to the lighting in the ceiling.
> > >
> > > Just as well, as I fitted automatic lightswitch (with a PIR)
> > > which need power. Mind you one of my light switches for some reason
> > > doesn't have a
> > > neutral present. But earth suffices as a neutral.
> > >
> > I had reason to look up the wring regs regarding using a surplus
> > earth as a neutral in my room thermostat. Definite no-no. Also
> > wrapping the visible end with blue tape also a no-no.
>
> Earth and neutral are both zero volts, it works just fine.
Are you sure that they are always both zero volts?
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 14:21:58 -0000, bert <bert@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>
> > In message <op.wny4t9naytk5n5@i7-940>, Lieutenant Scott
> > <n...@spam.com> writes
> > > On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:54:36 -0000, Bill Wright
> > > <bi...@invalid.com> wrote:
> > > > malcolmf wrote:
> > > > > Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera
> > > > > off of a light switch?
> > > > >
> > > > Where will you get the neutral from?
> > >
> > > My light switches have a neutral. The mains is under the floor,
> > > comes up through the lightswitch, to the lighting in the ceiling.
> > >
> > > Just as well, as I fitted automatic lightswitch (with a PIR)
> > > which need power. Mind you one of my light switches for some reason
> > > doesn't have a
> > > neutral present. But earth suffices as a neutral.
> > >
> > I had reason to look up the wring regs regarding using a surplus
> > earth as a neutral in my room thermostat. Definite no-no. Also
> > wrapping the visible end with blue tape also a no-no.
>
> Earth and neutral are both zero volts, it works just fine.
--
Adam
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 20, 2012, 4:52:06 PM11/20/12
to
A sign at the golf course detailing the dress code:
Guys: No Shirts, No Golf
Girls: No Shirts, No Green Fees
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 20, 2012, 4:52:53 PM11/20/12
to
Two fish are in a tank. One says to the other, "I'll man the guns, you drive".
ARW
Nov 20, 2012, 5:01:12 PM11/20/12
to
--
Adam
ARW
Nov 20, 2012, 5:03:05 PM11/20/12
to
daft twat.
--
Adam
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 20, 2012, 5:10:11 PM11/20/12
to
Maybe the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence because that is where the leaky septic tank is buried.
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 20, 2012, 5:11:04 PM11/20/12
to
bert
Nov 20, 2012, 5:13:00 PM11/20/12
to
In message <op.wn3bcyx0ytk5n5@i7-940>, Lieutenant Scott <n...@spam.com>
--
bert
writes
>On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 14:21:58 -0000, bert <bert@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>
>> In message <op.wny4t9naytk5n5@i7-940>, Lieutenant Scott <n...@spam.com>
>> writes
>>> On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:54:36 -0000, Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> malcolmf wrote:
>>>>> Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
>>>>> light switch?
>>>>>
>>>> Where will you get the neutral from?
>>>
>>> My light switches have a neutral. The mains is under the floor, comes
>>> up through the lightswitch, to the lighting in the ceiling.
>>>
>>> Just as well, as I fitted automatic lightswitch (with a PIR) which
>>>need power.
>>>
>>> Mind you one of my light switches for some reason doesn't have a
>>> neutral present. But earth suffices as a neutral.
>>>
>> I had reason to look up the wring regs regarding using a surplus earth
>> as a neutral in my room thermostat. Definite no-no. Also wrapping the
>> visible end with blue tape also a no-no.
>
>Earth and neutral are both zero volts, it works just fine.
>
Earth & neutral are normally zero volts.
>On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 14:21:58 -0000, bert <bert@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>
>> In message <op.wny4t9naytk5n5@i7-940>, Lieutenant Scott <n...@spam.com>
>> writes
>>> On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:54:36 -0000, Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> malcolmf wrote:
>>>>> Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
>>>>> light switch?
>>>>>
>>>> Where will you get the neutral from?
>>>
>>> My light switches have a neutral. The mains is under the floor, comes
>>> up through the lightswitch, to the lighting in the ceiling.
>>>
>>> Just as well, as I fitted automatic lightswitch (with a PIR) which
>>>need power.
>>>
>>> Mind you one of my light switches for some reason doesn't have a
>>> neutral present. But earth suffices as a neutral.
>>>
>> I had reason to look up the wring regs regarding using a surplus earth
>> as a neutral in my room thermostat. Definite no-no. Also wrapping the
>> visible end with blue tape also a no-no.
>
>Earth and neutral are both zero volts, it works just fine.
>
--
bert
John Rumm
Nov 20, 2012, 6:06:22 PM11/20/12
to
everything metal in scotty's house is live because some clueless retard
decided it was ok to use the earth as a neutral.
Dave Plowman (News)
Nov 20, 2012, 6:20:55 PM11/20/12
to
In article <V7zGU8As...@nospam.co.uk>,
--
*If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
bert <bert@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
> >Earth and neutral are both zero volts, it works just fine.
> >
> Earth & neutral are normally zero volts
Never heard of voltage drop in a circuit?
> >Earth and neutral are both zero volts, it works just fine.
> >
> Earth & neutral are normally zero volts
--
*If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.
Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
geoff
Nov 20, 2012, 6:21:17 PM11/20/12
to
In message <V7zGU8As...@nospam.co.uk>, bert <bert@[127.0.0.1]>
writes
Earth and neutral are normally connected at the local substation
but
RULE No 1
You always measure live wrt neutral NOT to earth
RULE No 2
see rule No 1
--
geoff
writes
but
RULE No 1
You always measure live wrt neutral NOT to earth
RULE No 2
see rule No 1
--
geoff
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 20, 2012, 7:31:39 PM11/20/12
to
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 23:06:22 -0000, John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> On 20/11/2012 22:13, bert wrote:
>> In message <op.wn3bcyx0ytk5n5@i7-940>, Lieutenant Scott <n...@spam.com>
>> writes
>>> On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 14:21:58 -0000, bert <bert@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <op.wny4t9naytk5n5@i7-940>, Lieutenant Scott <n...@spam.com>
>>>> writes
>>>>> On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:54:36 -0000, Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My light switches have a neutral. The mains is under the floor, comes
>>>>> up through the lightswitch, to the lighting in the ceiling.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just as well, as I fitted automatic lightswitch (with a PIR) which
>>>>> need power.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mind you one of my light switches for some reason doesn't have a
>>>>> neutral present. But earth suffices as a neutral.
>>>>>
>>>> I had reason to look up the wring regs regarding using a surplus earth
>>>> as a neutral in my room thermostat. Definite no-no. Also wrapping the
>>>> visible end with blue tape also a no-no.
>>>
>>> Earth and neutral are both zero volts, it works just fine.
>>>
>> Earth & neutral are normally zero volts.
>
> Until you get a circuit with a disconnected earth somewhere, then
> everything metal in scotty's house is live because some clueless retard
> decided it was ok to use the earth as a neutral.
Bullshit. I'm not connecting LIVE to the earth, I'm connecting NEUTRAL to it.
> On 20/11/2012 22:13, bert wrote:
>> In message <op.wn3bcyx0ytk5n5@i7-940>, Lieutenant Scott <n...@spam.com>
>> writes
>>> On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 14:21:58 -0000, bert <bert@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <op.wny4t9naytk5n5@i7-940>, Lieutenant Scott <n...@spam.com>
>>>> writes
>>>>> On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:54:36 -0000, Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My light switches have a neutral. The mains is under the floor, comes
>>>>> up through the lightswitch, to the lighting in the ceiling.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just as well, as I fitted automatic lightswitch (with a PIR) which
>>>>> need power.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mind you one of my light switches for some reason doesn't have a
>>>>> neutral present. But earth suffices as a neutral.
>>>>>
>>>> I had reason to look up the wring regs regarding using a surplus earth
>>>> as a neutral in my room thermostat. Definite no-no. Also wrapping the
>>>> visible end with blue tape also a no-no.
>>>
>>> Earth and neutral are both zero volts, it works just fine.
>>>
>> Earth & neutral are normally zero volts.
>
> Until you get a circuit with a disconnected earth somewhere, then
> everything metal in scotty's house is live because some clueless retard
> decided it was ok to use the earth as a neutral.
It is bad luck to be superstitious.
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 20, 2012, 7:32:15 PM11/20/12
to
"Boy, will I give YOU a haircut!" said Tom barbarously.
The Other Mike
Nov 20, 2012, 7:38:06 PM11/20/12
to
On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 05:35:53 +0000 (GMT), charles
<cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <k89qqm$s6v$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,
> Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com> wrote:
>> ARW wrote:
>
>> > CT100 would be Bill's prefered cable:-)
>> >
>> The best way to use coax for mains is to use the inner for line and the
>> outer for neutral. Don't bother about an earth.
>
>[Snip]
>
>Bill's not wrong. When a student and working with SSEB, I came across a
>small area in Edinburgh which was wired with "concentric" mains cable.
I've seen it used in the past year for a new installation of street
lighting, Single red core, spiral armour for combined neutral /
earth, probably still got a short offcut somewhere that I picked up.
<cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <k89qqm$s6v$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,
> Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com> wrote:
>> ARW wrote:
>
>> > CT100 would be Bill's prefered cable:-)
>> >
>> The best way to use coax for mains is to use the inner for line and the
>> outer for neutral. Don't bother about an earth.
>
>[Snip]
>
>Bill's not wrong. When a student and working with SSEB, I came across a
>small area in Edinburgh which was wired with "concentric" mains cable.
I've seen it used in the past year for a new installation of street
lighting, Single red core, spiral armour for combined neutral /
earth, probably still got a short offcut somewhere that I picked up.
John Rumm
Nov 20, 2012, 8:29:10 PM11/20/12
to
are connecting live to earth.
Think how much current flows through the circuit when you disconnect the
earth - its a nice round number. Now apply ohms law to work out the
voltage drop across the load with zero current flowing through it.
Finally take that away from your mains supply voltage and you have the
voltage on your (previously) earthed metalwork.
Dave Liquorice
Nov 21, 2012, 5:20:19 AM11/21/12
to
On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:03:23 -0000, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
> I've got fuses for everything except lighting. Less nuisance trips.
>
> I have circuit breakers on the lighting to protect the PIR lighting
> system I put in my house which is a bit fragile to shorting if a bulb
> fails the wrong way.
Curious, fuses are far more tolerant of bulb failure than MCBs.
> I've got fuses for everything except lighting. Less nuisance trips.
>
> I have circuit breakers on the lighting to protect the PIR lighting
> system I put in my house which is a bit fragile to shorting if a bulb
> fails the wrong way.
> I have no RCD. They don't protect me against fire, so I don't need
> them.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Steve Firth
Nov 21, 2012, 12:34:29 PM11/21/12
to
"Dave Liquorice" <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:03:23 -0000, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
[snip]
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:03:23 -0000, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>> I have no RCD. They don't protect me against fire, so I don't need
>> them.
>
> And the reasoning behind that is?
--
<•DarWin><|
_/ _/
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 21, 2012, 1:06:28 PM11/21/12
to
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 01:29:10 -0000, John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> On 21/11/2012 00:31, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 23:06:22 -0000, John Rumm
>> <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>>
>>> On 20/11/2012 22:13, bert wrote:
>>>> In message <op.wn3bcyx0ytk5n5@i7-940>, Lieutenant Scott <n...@spam.com>
>>>> writes
>>>>> On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 14:21:58 -0000, bert <bert@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Earth and neutral are both zero volts, it works just fine.
>>>>>
>>>> Earth & neutral are normally zero volts.
>>>
>>> Until you get a circuit with a disconnected earth somewhere, then
>>> everything metal in scotty's house is live because some clueless retard
>>> decided it was ok to use the earth as a neutral.
>>
>> Bullshit. I'm not connecting LIVE to the earth, I'm connecting NEUTRAL
>> to it.
>
> no knobstick, if you are placing a load between live and earth then you
> are connecting live to earth.
>
> Think how much current flows through the circuit when you disconnect the
> earth - its a nice round number. Now apply ohms law to work out the
> voltage drop across the load with zero current flowing through it.
> Finally take that away from your mains supply voltage and you have the
> voltage on your (previously) earthed metalwork.
With fuck all current capabilities. We were talking about small loads remember.
> On 21/11/2012 00:31, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>> On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 23:06:22 -0000, John Rumm
>> <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>>
>>> On 20/11/2012 22:13, bert wrote:
>>>> In message <op.wn3bcyx0ytk5n5@i7-940>, Lieutenant Scott <n...@spam.com>
>>>> writes
>>>>> On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 14:21:58 -0000, bert <bert@[127.0.0.1]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Earth and neutral are both zero volts, it works just fine.
>>>>>
>>>> Earth & neutral are normally zero volts.
>>>
>>> Until you get a circuit with a disconnected earth somewhere, then
>>> everything metal in scotty's house is live because some clueless retard
>>> decided it was ok to use the earth as a neutral.
>>
>> Bullshit. I'm not connecting LIVE to the earth, I'm connecting NEUTRAL
>> to it.
>
> no knobstick, if you are placing a load between live and earth then you
> are connecting live to earth.
>
> Think how much current flows through the circuit when you disconnect the
> earth - its a nice round number. Now apply ohms law to work out the
> voltage drop across the load with zero current flowing through it.
> Finally take that away from your mains supply voltage and you have the
> voltage on your (previously) earthed metalwork.
That CRT over there has got millions of volts of static on it but for some reason it doesn't kill me when I touch it....
Peter is now listening to "Guo Yi & Guo Yue - Mongolian Horse"
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 21, 2012, 1:08:14 PM11/21/12
to
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 10:20:19 -0000, Dave Liquorice <allsortsn...@howhill.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:03:23 -0000, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>
>> I've got fuses for everything except lighting. Less nuisance trips.
>>
>> I have circuit breakers on the lighting to protect the PIR lighting
>> system I put in my house which is a bit fragile to shorting if a bulb
>> fails the wrong way.
>
> Curious, fuses are far more tolerant of bulb failure than MCBs.
Exactly. When an incandescent blows in a shorted state (GU10 spots like to do this), the MCB trips quicker than the fuse. With the fuse, it's the PIR device that breaks first. And they cost more than an MCB.
> On Tue, 20 Nov 2012 21:03:23 -0000, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>
>> I've got fuses for everything except lighting. Less nuisance trips.
>>
>> I have circuit breakers on the lighting to protect the PIR lighting
>> system I put in my house which is a bit fragile to shorting if a bulb
>> fails the wrong way.
>
> Curious, fuses are far more tolerant of bulb failure than MCBs.
>> I have no RCD. They don't protect me against fire, so I don't need
>> them.
>
> And the reasoning behind that is?
If Christians want us to believe in a Redeemer, let them act redeemed. -- Voltaire
ARW
Nov 21, 2012, 2:35:38 PM11/21/12
to
Owain wrote:
> On Nov 20, 3:46 pm, John Williamson wrote:
> > You're right about the resistance in the cable causing it to heat
> > up. But... You save money per hour of running time due to the
> > reduced power drawn, but you also get less total heat per hour for
> > the same reason. The cost per kilowatt hour of heat is the same,
> > ignoring losses outside the room.
>
> Unless you're on a two-tier tariff, or one with a standing charge, in
> which case the average cost per kilowatt-hour will fall the more you
> use.
Smart arse:-)
--
Adam
> On Nov 20, 3:46 pm, John Williamson wrote:
> > You're right about the resistance in the cable causing it to heat
> > up. But... You save money per hour of running time due to the
> > reduced power drawn, but you also get less total heat per hour for
> > the same reason. The cost per kilowatt hour of heat is the same,
> > ignoring losses outside the room.
>
> Unless you're on a two-tier tariff, or one with a standing charge, in
> which case the average cost per kilowatt-hour will fall the more you
> use.
Smart arse:-)
--
Adam
GMM
Nov 21, 2012, 3:55:44 PM11/21/12
to
On 18/11/2012 16:07, critcher wrote:
> I remember my mum plugging her electric iron into the light socket, but
> she couldn't see what she was ironing at night.
My Dad used to have some bayonet plugs so he could do that. On his
drill in particular as I recall. Of course in those days electrickery
wasn't as complcated and dangerous as it is now......;)
> On 18/11/2012 14:50, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:54:36 -0000, Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 17 Nov 2012 02:54:36 -0000, Bill Wright <bi...@invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>> malcolmf wrote:
>>>> Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
>>>> light switch?
>>>>
>>> Where will you get the neutral from?
>>
>>>> Is it acceptable in the uk to put a socket for a cctv camera off of a
>>>> light switch?
>>>>
>>> Where will you get the neutral from?
>>
>> My light switches have a neutral. The mains is under the floor, comes
>> up through the lightswitch, to the lighting in the ceiling.
>>
>> Just as well, as I fitted automatic lightswitch (with a PIR) which need
>> power.
>>
>> Mind you one of my light switches for some reason doesn't have a neutral
>> present. But earth suffices as a neutral.
>>
>
>
>
> critcher said...................
>> up through the lightswitch, to the lighting in the ceiling.
>>
>> Just as well, as I fitted automatic lightswitch (with a PIR) which need
>> power.
>>
>> Mind you one of my light switches for some reason doesn't have a neutral
>> present. But earth suffices as a neutral.
>>
>
>
>
> I remember my mum plugging her electric iron into the light socket, but
> she couldn't see what she was ironing at night.
My Dad used to have some bayonet plugs so he could do that. On his
drill in particular as I recall. Of course in those days electrickery
wasn't as complcated and dangerous as it is now......;)
Andy Champ
Nov 21, 2012, 4:07:55 PM11/21/12
to
On 20/11/2012 21:52, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
> Near enough. I've never seen the difference be higher than a volt.
Not when I've measured it.
> Near enough. I've never seen the difference be higher than a volt.
It took me a while to work out why the voltage N-L and L-E was the same,
and yet there was a voltage between them. Since then I;ve been taught a
little about AC...
Andy
bert
Nov 21, 2012, 4:06:46 PM11/21/12
to
In message <D8OdndFAJuNNojDN...@bt.com>, GMM
<GlMiMa-AT-yahoo.co.uk@?.?.invalid> writes
And the Elfin Safety hadn't been born.
--
bert
<GlMiMa-AT-yahoo.co.uk@?.?.invalid> writes
--
bert
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 21, 2012, 4:28:55 PM11/21/12
to
An actor works all his life to gain recognition.
He makes guest appearances, spends a lot for publicity people and agents etc.
Then, when he finally becomes well known, he complains he cannot go out in public anymore.
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 21, 2012, 4:29:39 PM11/21/12
to
I'd rather have a life than a living.
AlanD
Nov 21, 2012, 4:35:51 PM11/21/12
to
On 18/11/2012 05:17, Bill Wright wrote:
>
> Don't get me started.
>
> http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/roguesgallery/035.shtml
>
> Bill
I particularly like this one:
http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/roguesgallery/042.shtml
> John Rumm wrote:
>
>>> CT100 would be Bill's prefered cable:-)
>>
>> It would only be fair, he had seen the way electricians wire aerials ;-)
>
>>> CT100 would be Bill's prefered cable:-)
>>
>
> Don't get me started.
>
> http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/roguesgallery/035.shtml
>
> Bill
I particularly like this one:
http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/roguesgallery/042.shtml
Adam Funk
Nov 21, 2012, 4:49:33 PM11/21/12
to
John Rumm
Nov 21, 2012, 5:36:53 PM11/21/12
to
pass 100mA. Plenty enough to kill you, and since you have not got a RCD,
and the current is not enough to open a fuse or MCB, you can be sure the
power will stay on long enough to get you properly dead.
> That CRT over there has got millions of volts of static on it but for
> some reason it doesn't kill me when I touch it....
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 21, 2012, 6:20:07 PM11/21/12
to
Anyway, that's 100mA if the voltage across me is zero. If we say it's half each, I get 120 volts, and the current is 50mA.
>> That CRT over there has got millions of volts of static on it but for
>> some reason it doesn't kill me when I touch it....
>
> Poke your finger into its 35kV EHT supply - that is only a few mA as well...
"Have you been hunting bear lately?"
"No, the grass tickles."
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 21, 2012, 6:22:58 PM11/21/12
to
Aristotle believed wind direction determined whether a baby would be a boy or a girl.
Dave Liquorice
Nov 21, 2012, 6:36:50 PM11/21/12
to
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:08:14 -0000, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>>> I've got fuses for everything except lighting. Less nuisance trips.
>>
>>> I've got fuses for everything except lighting. Less nuisance trips.
>>
>> Curious, fuses are far more tolerant of bulb failure than MCBs.
>
> Exactly. When an incandescent blows in a shorted state (GU10 spots
> like to do this), the MCB trips quicker than the fuse.
Bzinga.
>
> Exactly. When an incandescent blows in a shorted state (GU10 spots
> like to do this), the MCB trips quicker than the fuse.
--
Cheers
Dave.
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 21, 2012, 7:02:39 PM11/21/12
to
"Th on my k yboard has stopp d working"
Java Jive
Nov 21, 2012, 9:24:55 PM11/21/12
to
No, a closer analogy would be reversing out of your drive instead of
reversing into it - it's making some sort of accident more likely,
like the one that killed the son of the neighbours of the keyboard
player in my ex wife's band.
The history of mankind generally and such aspects as air and rail
travel particularly demonstrate that sooner or later the rare
conditions required to create an accident occur in combination to
cause one.
By abusing one of the safety features of the UK electrical standards
you are deliberately making an accident, possibly a fatal one, more
likely. You are being a pillock.
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 23:22:58 -0000, "Lieutenant Scott" <n...@spam.com>
wrote:
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html
reversing into it - it's making some sort of accident more likely,
like the one that killed the son of the neighbours of the keyboard
player in my ex wife's band.
The history of mankind generally and such aspects as air and rail
travel particularly demonstrate that sooner or later the rare
conditions required to create an accident occur in combination to
cause one.
By abusing one of the safety features of the UK electrical standards
you are deliberately making an accident, possibly a fatal one, more
likely. You are being a pillock.
On Wed, 21 Nov 2012 23:22:58 -0000, "Lieutenant Scott" <n...@spam.com>
wrote:
>
> Anyway, going back a bit...... someone suggested the problem occurs if the earth gets disconnected. So you're trying to blame one thing for another thing happening later. That's like saying it's my fault for parking my car on a double yellow line because then the guy doing 150mph through the built up area wouldn't have hit it.
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> Anyway, going back a bit...... someone suggested the problem occurs if the earth gets disconnected. So you're trying to blame one thing for another thing happening later. That's like saying it's my fault for parking my car on a double yellow line because then the guy doing 150mph through the built up area wouldn't have hit it.
--
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist. Or use a contact address at:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html
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