Thermostatic Shower too hot in summer to cold in winter
ado
Hopefully some one can help or point me in the right direction to get
help on this. We got a new Combi boiler (Glowworm 30CXi) and
thermostatic Shower (Quatra by Crosswater I think from the bathstore)
last October. At the time the shower seemed fine and hot, however we
never used it much until the bathroom was tiled over. When we started
using it regularly in November, I found it ok not very hot where as
the wife, who likes a hot shower found it cold. All the other hot taps
in bath and kitchen produced scaling hot water. Eventually as the
winter wore on, I too found it too cold and the only way to have a hot
shower was to turn on the cold water tap on the bath. This was
inconvenient, but we had 101 other things going on in our lives to try
and fix it back then, so we lived with this inconvenience. Now however
in summer the opposite has happened and the shower is scaling, turning
the exposed temperature valve/knob to min and turning the water
temperature on the combi to minimum (without turning it off) makes no
difference. Even turning on the hot tap in the bathroom makes no
difference, the pressure drops but the temperature is still too hot.
We’ve ended up going to the gym to have cooler showers. I rang the
plumber and he blamed first the boiler, “should have went with
worcester bosch” and then blaming the thermostatic value. So I want to
educate my self on possible causes so I can confront him to fix it (if
it is indeed an installation error).
Cheers
Adrian
ado
John
"ado" <Adrian....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2239b5d2-85bb-4fcb...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Hi,
Cheers
Adrian
I had a problem of mine not being hot enough in the winter. This was due to
the water entering my combi being very cold - and the shower having a high
flow rate (13 litres minute). The combi was struggling to keep pace. I fixed
it by fitting a flow restrictor (from Mira) in the hose outlet. This reduces
the flow to a more manageable 9 litres a minute which is more within the
capabilities of the boiler ( and it no longer knock my grandson over).
However, this won't help your summer problem. - Unless you have some shut
off valves somewhere and the cold water has been throttled back a bit to
help the winter problem
Roger Mills
ado <Adrian....@gmail.com> wrote:
It sounds as if the "thermostatic" valve is nothing of the kind, but is
simply giving you the same hot/cold mixture regardless of how it is set, and
regardless of the mixed water temperature.
If this is the case, the mixed temperature will depend only on the
temperature of the incoming cold mains - and so will be hotter in summer
than in winter.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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meow...@care2.com
> "ado" <Adrian.Donne...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:2239b5d2-85bb-4fcb...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Problems like that tend to respond to turning the water flow down at
the shower. If it makes no difference, I can only see it being the
'static shower thats the probelm. I'm no plumbing expert tho, prefer
to avoid it.
NT
ado
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi Guys,
Thanks for the responses,
Cold Water in winter:
I didnt think the shower was overly powerful but there is a good flow
rate. So a flow restricter would reduce the speed at which the water
flows through the boiler and allow the boiler to heat up the water
better. Is this what is currently happening when I turned on the cold
water bath tap in winter a little, which reduces the pressure on the
shower a bit but caused the shower to go hotter? Unfortunately our
pipes are all tiled over and the shower head is a fixed one, so can
the flow restricter sit between the shower head arm and the pipes?
Also how would this differ from turning down the power of the shower
using the flow control know on the shower? I guess I can't test this
out now until winter as at the moment the water is just mad hot.
Hot Water in Summer (or more importantly no cold water):
I am assured it is a thermostatic shower value. There are only two
knobs on it, a temp control and a flow control. Its not possible to
control the mix manually, but yea its not behaving as a thermostatic
valve as there is little or no difference when the temp control is set
to hot and when its set to cold.
There is a restriction Value on the Bath taps set to reduced but not
the shower (I think). Basically the mains water comes into our flat
before splitting in two and 1 goes to the flat upstairs as their mains
and the other is ours. Because it comes into our flat first upstairs
asked us to restrict the flow on the bath as when the previous owners
turned on the bath fully their shower was rendered useless as we took
all the water. So we agreed as it just meant the bath filled a little
slower and we didnt use the bath much. So is this the source of our
lack of cold water going to the shower?
Cheers
Adrian
sm_jamieson
Could themo valve be connected back to front (hot to hot, cold to
cold) ?
So if the temp is too low, it makes it lower, if too high it makes it
higher.
Not sure if they would react like this though. Also, there is usually
a high temp cutoff, but this may not work if the connections are
reversed.
Simon.
sm_jamieson
Of course I meant hot to cold, cold to hot.
Simon.
Ed Sirett
I agree. First thing is to see if you can mix water at a reasonable flow
and temperature from manual tap(s) on the basin/bath/sink.
If so, then the focus is on the duff mixer. It is amazing how many units
a the lower end of the market are borken/nearly broken/out of
calibration.
The lower end kit invariably uses wax pellet expansion technology which
can and does go wrong.
--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
ado
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:04:09 +0100, Roger Mills wrote:
> > In an earlier contribution to this discussion, ado
> Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
> Sealed CH FAQhttp://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi,
Okay I shall take the front plate off tonight and see if its all
connected up correctly, I'd be surprised if the plumber did connect it
the wrong way around, however it needs to be eliminated as a cause.
I can get a reasonable flow/mix from the bath and sink mixers. As a
matter of interest, is the theromostaric valve we bought for £250 at
the lower end of the market?
Cheers
A
Mathew Newton
> The lower end kit invariably uses wax pellet expansion technology which
> can and does go wrong.
Out if interest what does the upper end kit use (and a brief
explanation of operation if it's not obvious)? Presumably the Mira
Excel falls into this category?
Mathew
Rick... (The other Rick)
Hi,
I can't comment about a combi system, but I have experienced the same from a conventional hot water
system with a pumped shower.
My conclusion was that the temperature differential of the hot and cold water was to blame.
When leaving the tank stat alone I would get the same symptoms as you.
Therefore I experimented, and discovered the following...
In winter, when the water in the loft tank was cold, I turned the hot water tank temperature down,
this not only increased the temperature of the shower, it increased the flow rate as well.
In summer I could increase the hot water tank temperature and experience even better flow rates.
When we had a wood burning stove with a back boiler fitted, we had it plumbed into the C/H system as
well. So now the hot water could rise to 80C+ Something had to be done...
To prevent these temperature / flow fluctuations, I had a thermostatic pre mixer fitted to the hot
input of the shower pump set at approx 50/60C. This appears to have solved the problem.
I now get constant flow rates and temperatures throughput the year.
I think that your problem is due to the high water temperature from your boiler and the fluctuating
temperature of the incoming cold water supply. Try turning the hot water temperature down and see
what happens.
Rick... (The other Rick)
sm_jamieson
high end uses some kind of bimetallic coil that responds faster than
wax pellets. The coils are very expensive to replace.
In this day and age, and for my next installation, I may try an
electronic mixer. The mixer is remote (e.g. in loft) so no probs with
wiring. I mean, come on, bimetal, wax pellets - how crude is that ! Of
course it does work without power which is of no benefit if you have a
combi that needs power to function.
Simon.
Pete C
Hi,
Try phoning the shower manufacturer, if it costs £250 there must be a
well staffed technical helpline.
cheers,
Pete.
John
> Hi,
>
> Hopefully some one can help or point me in the right direction to get
> help on this. We got a new Combi boiler (Glowworm 30CXi) and
> last October. At the time theshowerseemed fine and hot, however we
> never used it much until the bathroom was tiled over. When we started
> using it regularly in November, I found it ok not very hot where as
> in bath and kitchen produced scaling hot water. Eventually as the
> inconvenient, but we had 101 other things going on in our lives to try
> and fix it back then, so we lived with this inconvenience. Now however
> the exposed temperature valve/knob to min and turning the water
> temperature on the combi to minimum (without turning it off) makes no
> difference. Even turning on the hot tap in the bathroom makes no
> difference, the pressure drops but the temperature is still too hot.
> We’ve ended up going to the gym to have cooler showers. I rang the
> plumber and he blamed first the boiler, “should have went with
> worcester bosch” and then blaming the thermostatic value. So I want to
> educate my self on possible causes so I can confront him to fix it (if
> it is indeed an installation error).
>
> Cheers
> Adrian
Hi,
This sounds like the boiler is the problem. Might be worth getting the
manufacturer out to have a look to confirm.
You could change your shower to a TMV2 which offer the ultimate
thermostatic performance to TMV2 certified standards also prevents
scalding by accurately maintaining a constant water temperature.
http://www.truerooms.com/PP/D-TS2SQ.html
Hope this helps.
John.