Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
OT Security at Canary Wharf
328 views
Skip to first unread message
ARWadsworth
Nov 21, 2011, 11:23:14 AM11/21/11
to
I went there yesterday and all cars entering are subject to a security
check. The nice guy asked if he could do a search of my car but then just
went around and wiped something on the 4 door handles and the boot handle.
Was this some sort of swab to test for drugs or explosives?
He never bothered to look in the boot but the car in front that had been
stopped had a full search of it's boot.
PS They must have money to burn in Canary Wharf. My job was to terminate a 4
core 4mm SWA at the dis board (the cable was already there and terminated at
the other end) and then install 2 patch leads between the electric door
curtain and the controllers ie 2 x 2 m patch leads. The mind boggles as to
why I had to go and do that.
--
Adam
* Sometimes I like to lay in my neighbours garden and pretend to be a carrot
*
check. The nice guy asked if he could do a search of my car but then just
went around and wiped something on the 4 door handles and the boot handle.
Was this some sort of swab to test for drugs or explosives?
He never bothered to look in the boot but the car in front that had been
stopped had a full search of it's boot.
PS They must have money to burn in Canary Wharf. My job was to terminate a 4
core 4mm SWA at the dis board (the cable was already there and terminated at
the other end) and then install 2 patch leads between the electric door
curtain and the controllers ie 2 x 2 m patch leads. The mind boggles as to
why I had to go and do that.
--
Adam
* Sometimes I like to lay in my neighbours garden and pretend to be a carrot
*
Jethro
Nov 21, 2011, 11:37:07 AM11/21/11
to
On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:23:14 +0000, ARWadsworth wrote:
> I went there yesterday and all cars entering are subject to a security
> check. The nice guy asked if he could do a search of my car but then
> just went around and wiped something on the 4 door handles and the boot
> handle.
>
> Was this some sort of swab to test for drugs or explosives?
Does rather beg the question what would he do if there *were* traces of
> I went there yesterday and all cars entering are subject to a security
> check. The nice guy asked if he could do a search of my car but then
> just went around and wiped something on the 4 door handles and the boot
> handle.
>
> Was this some sort of swab to test for drugs or explosives?
explosives ... presumably they are selected to be good runners ?
>
> He never bothered to look in the boot but the car in front that had been
> stopped had a full search of it's boot.
>
It's all to impress the proles. A few years back, a colleague came into
> He never bothered to look in the boot but the car in front that had been
> stopped had a full search of it's boot.
>
work severely impressed he had been stopped in a line of cars, and the
police had gone round with a mirror on a stick. I innocently asked how
much road space they had reserved, and when he replied that the car being
inspected was just a couple of feet in front of the car behind, the penny
dropped ...
Remember the tank that Blair got to drive round Heathrow for the cameras ?
Clive George
Nov 21, 2011, 11:37:23 AM11/21/11
to
On 21/11/2011 16:23, ARWadsworth wrote:
> I went there yesterday and all cars entering are subject to a security
> check. The nice guy asked if he could do a search of my car but then just
> went around and wiped something on the 4 door handles and the boot handle.
>
> Was this some sort of swab to test for drugs or explosives?
Must be explosives - don't the occupants of Canary Wharf run on coke,
> I went there yesterday and all cars entering are subject to a security
> check. The nice guy asked if he could do a search of my car but then just
> went around and wiped something on the 4 door handles and the boot handle.
>
> Was this some sort of swab to test for drugs or explosives?
making testing for that a bit too likely to catch the wrong people? :-)
harry
Nov 21, 2011, 11:40:34 AM11/21/11
to
On Nov 21, 4:23 pm, "ARWadsworth" <adamwadswo...@blueyonder.co.uk>
wrote:
Usually dogs for explosives.
wrote:
ARWadsworth
Nov 21, 2011, 11:44:39 AM11/21/11
to
keeps visiting with coke all over the handles.
phil...@gmail.com
Nov 21, 2011, 11:32:06 AM11/21/11
to
explosives.
Philip
ARWadsworth
Nov 21, 2011, 12:01:46 PM11/21/11
to
Message has been deleted
js.b1
Nov 21, 2011, 12:45:06 PM11/21/11
to
> Was this some sort of swab to test for drugs or explosives?
Yes, and quite worthless, because it merely indicates that SOMEONE has
had contact with a chemical capable of creating a positive result has
touched the door handle at some point. About as legitimate as finding
drugs in a previous Attorney General's car as I recall - their
existence is the only evidence there is.
It is merely used to permit deeper search without warrant, and
routinely faked to achieve just that. A colleague who was hired to
investigate management fraud at BAe was harassed continually. When
arrested over "commercial material" on a hard drive he asked for the
seized laptop to be presented to the judge and promptly demonstrated
the hard drive bay was filled with epoxy - it was a thin-client
laptop. At least had the pleasure of calling the judge a twat to his
face.
That is how dense chemists in UK forensic labs earn a living far
beyond their level of incompetence and rapid promotion for fiddling
stuff, from falsifying evidence like the above to medical records to
police evidence with intentionally atrocious process control. Runcorn
East Forensic Lab is stuffed with chemist polycrap who could not get
jobs except via ex former ICI staff. They do the most appallingly
crude lash ups, for example quite literally biro over liquid paper on
every single page of medical records and make the mistake of sending
the wrong one to the wrong lawyer and then boast at what they did
openly. Unsurprisingly the lab is being sued by most UK police forces
who used it, both Cheshire & Merseyside police will not co-operate
with other police forces so with a bit of luck they turn up in person
and we get to see the police shoot the police. This is the police that
has spent under FOI disclosure £490,000 on helicopter flight hours
over a single 22 line of houses (11 semi) to try and find the one with
drugs grown in it. Walk around with a washing line clip on your nose
and it is pretty bloody obvious such that even the shops nearby tell
the police to uck off they are so sick of it.
Copies of police evidence against a "new" university (Edgehill) faking
IT qualifications in return for money was found in a local private
school bin, two staff at the school own a recruitment agency handling
IT staff and many of the former students of the school were found to
have IT qualifications becoming instant supervisors but could not
answer the most basic question by other ex students who were in fact
qualified. Likewise the "supervisors" had received benefits whilst at
university from Mossley Hill benefits agencies, but had no assets to
recover money from so no action taken incredibly whilst an overpaid
wheelchair bound individual had to repay £350. Same forensic lab
involved in rewriting qualification certificates, I know because my
final year project was submitted 6 times across Liverpool when I sent
a copy to the examining board.
Evidence is that which a political agenda or quota seeks, one reason
why judicial process is about investigating that which we have already
engineered. You fiddle the data before it gets to court or before it
gets to other experts so the conclusion is automatically ensured. Same
with MP expenses when the civil service eventually released paperwork
with all evidence blacked out after the ex SAS man had exposed the
real data first - and put several who would not be prison in there. I
guess the SAS got fed up with crap intelligence or seizing Kuwait land
rights documents... :-)
So yes, it is about appearances. Olympics should get the USA rather
hot n bothered...
Andy Burns
Nov 21, 2011, 1:01:35 PM11/21/11
to
ARWadsworth wrote:
> went around and wiped something on the 4 door handles and the boot handle.
> Was this some sort of swab to test for drugs or explosives?
Lucky they didn't use a Woods Lamp to screen for blood or "Gentleman's
> went around and wiped something on the 4 door handles and the boot handle.
> Was this some sort of swab to test for drugs or explosives?
Relish" :-)
The Medway Handyman
Nov 21, 2011, 1:03:19 PM11/21/11
to
On 21/11/2011 16:23, ARWadsworth wrote:
> I went there yesterday and all cars entering are subject to a security
> check. The nice guy asked if he could do a search of my car but then just
> went around and wiped something on the 4 door handles and the boot handle.
>
> Was this some sort of swab to test for drugs or explosives?
Both I believe. They do it all the time at the ferry ports & tunnel.
> check. The nice guy asked if he could do a search of my car but then just
> went around and wiped something on the 4 door handles and the boot handle.
>
> Was this some sort of swab to test for drugs or explosives?
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
Steve Firth
Nov 21, 2011, 3:08:45 PM11/21/11
to
"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Clive George wrote:
>> On 21/11/2011 16:23, ARWadsworth wrote:
>>> I went there yesterday and all cars entering are subject to a
>>> security check. The nice guy asked if he could do a search of my car
>>> but then just went around and wiped something on the 4 door handles
>>> and the boot handle. Was this some sort of swab to test for drugs or
>>> explosives?
>>
>> Must be explosives - don't the occupants of Canary Wharf run on coke,
>> making testing for that a bit too likely to catch the wrong people?
>> :-)
>
> But still handy to go onto a database if some bloke from South Yorkshire
> keeps visiting with coke all over the handles.
Haven't you learned how to open the bottle without spraying Coke all over
> Clive George wrote:
>> On 21/11/2011 16:23, ARWadsworth wrote:
>>> I went there yesterday and all cars entering are subject to a
>>> security check. The nice guy asked if he could do a search of my car
>>> but then just went around and wiped something on the 4 door handles
>>> and the boot handle. Was this some sort of swab to test for drugs or
>>> explosives?
>>
>> Must be explosives - don't the occupants of Canary Wharf run on coke,
>> making testing for that a bit too likely to catch the wrong people?
>> :-)
>
> But still handy to go onto a database if some bloke from South Yorkshire
> keeps visiting with coke all over the handles.
the inside of your van?
ARWadsworth
Nov 21, 2011, 3:38:06 PM11/21/11
to
Landrover Discovery HSE (well 2300 miles on the clock).
It was waiting for me in a hotel car park with the keys in reception. It was
dark and foggy and I spent the first 10 minutes trying to start the bastard.
Even when I found the start button on the dash it would not start until I
pressed the brake pedal.
At least I did not need to have to search for the lightswitch.
I also managed to turn on the heated seats and I was passing Peterborough
before I found the switch to turn the fucker back off.
Andrew Gabriel
Nov 21, 2011, 4:21:33 PM11/21/11
to
In article <Gnwyq.28780$E33....@newsfe23.ams2>,
the swab pushed into what I assume was a mass spectrometer.
About 30 seconds later, it let off a siren. I must have looked
rather alarmed, so she said "don't worry, that means it passed OK".
Made me wonder what it does if it picks something nasty up.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
The Medway Handyman <davi...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
> On 21/11/2011 16:23, ARWadsworth wrote:
>> I went there yesterday and all cars entering are subject to a security
>> check. The nice guy asked if he could do a search of my car but then just
>> went around and wiped something on the 4 door handles and the boot handle.
>>
>> Was this some sort of swab to test for drugs or explosives?
>
> Both I believe. They do it all the time at the ferry ports & tunnel.
My laptop got swabed at Los Angeles airport some years back, and
> On 21/11/2011 16:23, ARWadsworth wrote:
>> I went there yesterday and all cars entering are subject to a security
>> check. The nice guy asked if he could do a search of my car but then just
>> went around and wiped something on the 4 door handles and the boot handle.
>>
>> Was this some sort of swab to test for drugs or explosives?
>
> Both I believe. They do it all the time at the ferry ports & tunnel.
the swab pushed into what I assume was a mass spectrometer.
About 30 seconds later, it let off a siren. I must have looked
rather alarmed, so she said "don't worry, that means it passed OK".
Made me wonder what it does if it picks something nasty up.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
D.M.Chapman
Nov 21, 2011, 4:30:54 PM11/21/11
to
In article <jaefct$hct$2...@dont-email.me>,
and request you follow them :-/
My shoes had triggered the alarm (this was around the shoe bomber
incident IIRC).
First question was "How long have you had these boots?"
My answer of "about 3 hours, I bought them on the way to the airport as
by old ones started leaking" didn't seem to convince them...
I ended up standing in a "secure area" wearing slightly damp socks while they
scraped and poked at the boots. Thing that finally convinced them I was safe
was when I found the receipt in my pocket.
Darren
Andrew Gabriel <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>My laptop got swabed at Los Angeles airport some years back, and
>the swab pushed into what I assume was a mass spectrometer.
>About 30 seconds later, it let off a siren. I must have looked
>rather alarmed, so she said "don't worry, that means it passed OK".
>Made me wonder what it does if it picks something nasty up.
If it's anything like the one at Gatwick, suddenly lots of people turn up
>My laptop got swabed at Los Angeles airport some years back, and
>the swab pushed into what I assume was a mass spectrometer.
>About 30 seconds later, it let off a siren. I must have looked
>rather alarmed, so she said "don't worry, that means it passed OK".
>Made me wonder what it does if it picks something nasty up.
and request you follow them :-/
My shoes had triggered the alarm (this was around the shoe bomber
incident IIRC).
First question was "How long have you had these boots?"
My answer of "about 3 hours, I bought them on the way to the airport as
by old ones started leaking" didn't seem to convince them...
I ended up standing in a "secure area" wearing slightly damp socks while they
scraped and poked at the boots. Thing that finally convinced them I was safe
was when I found the receipt in my pocket.
Darren
Jim K
Nov 21, 2011, 6:01:17 PM11/21/11
to
On Nov 21, 8:38 pm, "ARWadsworth" <adamwadswo...@blueyonder.co.uk>
wrote:
> Steve Firth wrote:
this is sounding like a "plot" from Spooks - sparky based in south
yorks, funny little job in london, new motor provided.....did the job
come in a plain brown envelope in a bin down your road as well? ;>)
Jim K
wrote:
> Steve Firth wrote:
yorks, funny little job in london, new motor provided.....did the job
come in a plain brown envelope in a bin down your road as well? ;>)
Jim K
Jim K
Nov 21, 2011, 6:02:03 PM11/21/11
to
geoff
Nov 21, 2011, 7:46:01 PM11/21/11
to
In message <jadtts$mo3$1...@dont-email.me>, ARWadsworth
<adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
--
geoff
<adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>I went there yesterday and all cars entering are subject to a security
>check. The nice guy asked if he could do a search of my car but then just
>went around and wiped something on the 4 door handles and the boot handle.
>
>Was this some sort of swab to test for drugs or explosives?
>
>He never bothered to look in the boot but the car in front that had been
>stopped had a full search of it's boot.
>
Id you ask him where you could dump the body, anyway?
>check. The nice guy asked if he could do a search of my car but then just
>went around and wiped something on the 4 door handles and the boot handle.
>
>Was this some sort of swab to test for drugs or explosives?
>
>He never bothered to look in the boot but the car in front that had been
>stopped had a full search of it's boot.
>
--
geoff
gri...@gmail.com
Nov 21, 2011, 8:03:43 PM11/21/11
to
On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:44:39 -0000, "ARWadsworth"
<adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>But still handy to go onto a database if some bloke from South Yorkshire
>keeps visiting with coke all over the handles.
I thought the cokeworks was shut down years ago.
<adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>But still handy to go onto a database if some bloke from South Yorkshire
>keeps visiting with coke all over the handles.
Owain
Nov 21, 2011, 8:40:35 PM11/21/11
to
On Nov 21, 4:23 pm, "ARWadsworth" wrote:
> ... and then install 2 patch leads between the electric door
Owain
> ... and then install 2 patch leads between the electric door
> curtain and the controllers ie 2 x 2 m patch leads. The mind boggles as to
> why I had to go and do that.
Did you offer to install some wireless doorbells for them as well?
> why I had to go and do that.
Owain
The Medway Handyman
Nov 22, 2011, 3:22:43 AM11/22/11
to
Brian Gaff
Nov 22, 2011, 3:45:56 AM11/22/11
to
I thought they called those dogs? Must have a very small dog to fit in those
machines... grin.
Brian
--
Brian Gaff - bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
<phil...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:85bd345c-3bd2-4af3...@b32g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
machines... grin.
Brian
--
Brian Gaff - bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
<phil...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:85bd345c-3bd2-4af3...@b32g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
Davey
Nov 22, 2011, 5:35:53 AM11/22/11
to
On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:23:14 -0000
"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> I went there yesterday and all cars entering are subject to a
> security check. The nice guy asked if he could do a search of my car
> but then just went around and wiped something on the 4 door handles
> and the boot handle.
>
> Was this some sort of swab to test for drugs or explosives?
>
> He never bothered to look in the boot but the car in front that had
> been stopped had a full search of it's boot.
>
> PS They must have money to burn in Canary Wharf. My job was to
> terminate a 4 core 4mm SWA at the dis board (the cable was already
> there and terminated at the other end) and then install 2 patch leads
> between the electric door curtain and the controllers ie 2 x 2 m
> patch leads. The mind boggles as to why I had to go and do that.
>
A few years ago, I lived near Detroit, but worked in Canada, so I
"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> I went there yesterday and all cars entering are subject to a
> security check. The nice guy asked if he could do a search of my car
> but then just went around and wiped something on the 4 door handles
> and the boot handle.
>
> Was this some sort of swab to test for drugs or explosives?
>
> He never bothered to look in the boot but the car in front that had
> been stopped had a full search of it's boot.
>
> PS They must have money to burn in Canary Wharf. My job was to
> terminate a 4 core 4mm SWA at the dis board (the cable was already
> there and terminated at the other end) and then install 2 patch leads
> between the electric door curtain and the controllers ie 2 x 2 m
> patch leads. The mind boggles as to why I had to go and do that.
>
crossed the border between the US and Canada daily. Usually, there was
a queue to get back into the US in the evening, but one day, they just
shut everything down. Then one Customs/Immigration/DEA official carried
a small scanner-like thing and went to the rear of every black SUV in
the collection of vehicles waiting there, probably about 15 or so out
of maybe a couple of hundred cars. He found nothing, and then the gates
were opened, and normal service resumed. There must have been a
tip-off, that didn't work out.
--
Davey.
Derek Geldard
Nov 22, 2011, 7:04:05 AM11/22/11
to
>> don't the occupants of Canary Wharf run on coke,
>> making testing for that a bit too likely to catch the wrong people?
>> :-)
>
>But still handy to go onto a database if some bloke from South Yorkshire
>keeps visiting with coke all over the handles.
I thought you were referring to Arthur Scargill.
>> making testing for that a bit too likely to catch the wrong people?
>> :-)
>
>But still handy to go onto a database if some bloke from South Yorkshire
>keeps visiting with coke all over the handles.
Derek G
Steve Firth
Nov 22, 2011, 4:19:16 PM11/22/11
to
"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Steve Firth wrote:
>> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
> Steve Firth wrote:
>> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>> But still handy to go onto a database if some bloke from South
>>> Yorkshire keeps visiting with coke all over the handles.
>>
>> Haven't you learned how to open the bottle without spraying Coke all
>> over the inside of your van?
>
> Far worse than that Steve. It was not my van I went down in but a brand new
> Landrover Discovery HSE (well 2300 miles on the clock).
> It was waiting for me in a hotel car park with the keys in reception. It was
> dark and foggy and I spent the first 10 minutes trying to start the bastard.
> Even when I found the start button on the dash it would not start until I
> pressed the brake pedal.
I get grumpy with my cars because it's impossible to start them or put them
into gear without pressing the brake pedal.
ARWadsworth
Nov 22, 2011, 4:38:10 PM11/22/11
to
Steve Firth wrote:
> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> Steve Firth wrote:
>>> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> [snip]
>
>>>> But still handy to go onto a database if some bloke from South
>>>> Yorkshire keeps visiting with coke all over the handles.
>>>
>>> Haven't you learned how to open the bottle without spraying Coke all
>>> over the inside of your van?
>>
>> Far worse than that Steve. It was not my van I went down in but a
>> brand new Landrover Discovery HSE (well 2300 miles on the clock).
>
> Hmm, should have been a nice experience, other than the Kengestion
> charge.
It was a nice enough car. Just not what I am used to (it had more leather
> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> Steve Firth wrote:
>>> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> [snip]
>
>>>> But still handy to go onto a database if some bloke from South
>>>> Yorkshire keeps visiting with coke all over the handles.
>>>
>>> Haven't you learned how to open the bottle without spraying Coke all
>>> over the inside of your van?
>>
>> Far worse than that Steve. It was not my van I went down in but a
>> brand new Landrover Discovery HSE (well 2300 miles on the clock).
>
> Hmm, should have been a nice experience, other than the Kengestion
> charge.
than a fat bird in a bondage outfit).
I now do see why Mums on the school run seem to think that they can just
park them where they want when dropping the kids off. It's because they feel
invincible in one.
>> It was waiting for me in a hotel car park with the keys in
>> reception. It was dark and foggy and I spent the first 10 minutes
>> trying to start the bastard. Even when I found the start button on
>> the dash it would not start until I pressed the brake pedal.
>
> Modern vehicle electronics and the assumption that all drivers are
> stupid. I get grumpy with my cars because it's impossible to start
> them or put them into gear without pressing the brake pedal.
And a VH Combo van is better for putting step ladders into them than a
Discovery:-)
Message has been deleted
Steve Firth
Nov 22, 2011, 6:55:27 PM11/22/11
to
"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
> Even worse. I could not get Radio 2.
Land Rovers only get Radio 4. they are designed for the middle classes.
> And a VH Combo van is better for putting step ladders into them than a
> Discovery:-)
Yeh, it's one reason I hang onto a Ford Exploder. The load bed is long
enough to get ladders and 8x4 sheets into.
[snip]
> Even worse. I could not get Radio 2.
> And a VH Combo van is better for putting step ladders into them than a
> Discovery:-)
enough to get ladders and 8x4 sheets into.
Jethro
Nov 24, 2011, 4:50:29 AM11/24/11
to
On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 21:55:34 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
> In article
> <229249964343658848.120410%steve%-mallo...@news.eternal-september.or
> g>,
>
> 1) Why do I have to press the brake pedal on my dizzle C4 before turning
> the ignition to start the engine? Is this just a safety thing so no 5
> year old kid can start it by accident?
Just a way to enforce what you should do anyway (depress clutch, foot on
brake, start car).
>
> 2) Dizzle cars. What happened to the glow plug / red button pressing
> business before trying to start it?
Aren't they all common rail nowadays, which removes the need to pre-heat
the cylinder ? I vaguely recall FIAT made a bit of a gaffe by having to
sell the technology at a knock-down price, and it's now the standard for
diesel cars.
> In article
> <229249964343658848.120410%steve%-mallo...@news.eternal-september.or
> g>,
> Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Modern vehicle electronics and the assumption that all drivers are
>> stupid. I get grumpy with my cars because it's impossible to start them
>> or put them into gear without pressing the brake pedal.
>
> Which reminds me:
>
>> Modern vehicle electronics and the assumption that all drivers are
>> stupid. I get grumpy with my cars because it's impossible to start them
>> or put them into gear without pressing the brake pedal.
>
>
> 1) Why do I have to press the brake pedal on my dizzle C4 before turning
> the ignition to start the engine? Is this just a safety thing so no 5
> year old kid can start it by accident?
Just a way to enforce what you should do anyway (depress clutch, foot on
brake, start car).
>
> 2) Dizzle cars. What happened to the glow plug / red button pressing
> business before trying to start it?
Aren't they all common rail nowadays, which removes the need to pre-heat
the cylinder ? I vaguely recall FIAT made a bit of a gaffe by having to
sell the technology at a knock-down price, and it's now the standard for
diesel cars.
Jethro
Nov 24, 2011, 4:51:07 AM11/24/11
to
Andy Burns
Nov 24, 2011, 5:07:32 AM11/24/11
to
Jethro wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 21:55:34 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
>
>> 2) Dizzle cars. What happened to the glow plug / red button pressing
>> business before trying to start it?
>
> Aren't they all common rail nowadays, which removes the need to pre-heat
> the cylinder ?
Mine still has a glow plug lamp on the dash, to start you have to have
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 21:55:34 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
>
>> 2) Dizzle cars. What happened to the glow plug / red button pressing
>> business before trying to start it?
>
> Aren't they all common rail nowadays, which removes the need to pre-heat
> the cylinder ?
your foot on the brake, and then prod the key, which heats for as long
as it decides in necessary then cranks until it starts.
Normally the plug lamp is only on for brief glimpse, couple of mornings
lately it's been on for longer, after which the cranking has still taken
longer.
Tim Downie
Nov 24, 2011, 5:14:08 AM11/24/11
to
Tim Streater wrote:
> 2) Dizzle cars. What happened to the glow plug / red button pressing
> business before trying to start it?
It was the change from indirect injection engines to direct injection that
> 2) Dizzle cars. What happened to the glow plug / red button pressing
> business before trying to start it?
did away with the need (in most weathers) to wait for glow plugs. In IDI
engines the injector injects into a pre-combustion chamber and the cyclinder
compression ratio is lower. Consequently in cold weather, compression alone
wasn't sufficient to ignite the fuel.
In DI engines there is no precombustion chamber and the compression ratio is
highter. Glow plugs are still used to reduce emissions during the warm-up
period though.
http://www.howcarswork.co.uk/pics/diesel/differences.JPG
Tim
The Natural Philosopher
Nov 24, 2011, 5:58:46 AM11/24/11
to
Jethro wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 21:55:34 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <229249964343658848.120410%steve%-mallo...@news.eternal-september.or
>> g>,
>> Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Modern vehicle electronics and the assumption that all drivers are
>>> stupid. I get grumpy with my cars because it's impossible to start them
>>> or put them into gear without pressing the brake pedal.
>> Which reminds me:
>>
>> 1) Why do I have to press the brake pedal on my dizzle C4 before turning
>> the ignition to start the engine? Is this just a safety thing so no 5
>> year old kid can start it by accident?
>
> Just a way to enforce what you should do anyway (depress clutch, foot on
> brake, start car).
>> 2) Dizzle cars. What happened to the glow plug / red button pressing
>> business before trying to start it?
>
> Aren't they all common rail nowadays, which removes the need to pre-heat
> the cylinder ?
No it doesn't.
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2011 21:55:34 +0000, Tim Streater wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <229249964343658848.120410%steve%-mallo...@news.eternal-september.or
>> g>,
>> Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Modern vehicle electronics and the assumption that all drivers are
>>> stupid. I get grumpy with my cars because it's impossible to start them
>>> or put them into gear without pressing the brake pedal.
>> Which reminds me:
>>
>> 1) Why do I have to press the brake pedal on my dizzle C4 before turning
>> the ignition to start the engine? Is this just a safety thing so no 5
>> year old kid can start it by accident?
>
> Just a way to enforce what you should do anyway (depress clutch, foot on
> brake, start car).
>> 2) Dizzle cars. What happened to the glow plug / red button pressing
>> business before trying to start it?
>
> Aren't they all common rail nowadays, which removes the need to pre-heat
> the cylinder ?
All diesels have a glow plug, but few bother to inform you of the fact.
I DO know that on the Freelander (BMW diesel) if I wait for the glo plug
light to go out, it starts instantly with very little smoke.
The light only comes ON when the engine is very cold. So in normal
operation outside of winter, the glow plugs are not required, but they
are still there for subzero cranking :-)
I have vivid memories of trying to start a tractor whose glo plug had
gone..removing part of the air intake and tossing in a bit of diesel
soaked rag that was then lit..
The Natural Philosopher
Nov 24, 2011, 6:00:05 AM11/24/11
to
wait till the light goes out, and then pause a second, then crank.
diesels hate cold starts.
Jethro
Nov 24, 2011, 6:02:13 AM11/24/11
to
cylinder head on lorries and tanks in the army during national service,
and lighting fires under the fuel tank. (Not the British army - this was
proper mountain cold).
The Natural Philosopher
Nov 24, 2011, 6:15:15 AM11/24/11
to
Andy Burns
Nov 24, 2011, 6:29:26 AM11/24/11
to
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Normally the plug lamp is only on for brief glimpse, couple of
>> mornings lately it's been on for longer
>
> wait till the light goes out, and then pause a second, then crank.
Previous car I got that choice, turn ignition on, wait for plug light to
go out, then start. Current car, press button, it decides how long to
heat for and when to start (and stop) cranking.
> diesels hate cold starts.
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Normally the plug lamp is only on for brief glimpse, couple of
>> mornings lately it's been on for longer
>
> its needed in cold weather.
yes, of course
> wait till the light goes out, and then pause a second, then crank.
go out, then start. Current car, press button, it decides how long to
heat for and when to start (and stop) cranking.
> diesels hate cold starts.
Andy Burns
Nov 24, 2011, 6:48:45 AM11/24/11
to
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> I have vivid memories of trying to start a tractor whose glo plug had
> gone..removing part of the air intake and tossing in a bit of diesel
> soaked rag that was then lit..
Or use a real glow plug (12 bore starter optional)
> I have vivid memories of trying to start a tractor whose glo plug had
> gone..removing part of the air intake and tossing in a bit of diesel
> soaked rag that was then lit..
http://youtu.be/nqi2hTrDUAc#t=0m33s
doesn't seem to help cut the smoke down too much though!
The Natural Philosopher
Nov 24, 2011, 7:56:05 AM11/24/11
to
Thank god..
Steve Firth
Nov 24, 2011, 1:44:04 PM11/24/11
to
Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
> 1) Why do I have to press the brake pedal on my dizzle C4 before turning
> the ignition to start the engine? Is this just a safety thing so no 5
> year old kid can start it by accident?
Dunno, it hacks me off, but nowhere near as much as the "contactless
> 1) Why do I have to press the brake pedal on my dizzle C4 before turning
> the ignition to start the engine? Is this just a safety thing so no 5
> year old kid can start it by accident?
ignition key" on the Renault Scenic. French + electronics = shit. I had
one on hire a couple of years ago, took bloody ages to get it to switch
the engine off, even pulling the key from the slot on the dash didn't do
it.
Andy Champ
Nov 24, 2011, 2:33:04 PM11/24/11
to
On 24/11/2011 09:50, Jethro wrote:
> Just a way to enforce what you should do anyway (depress clutch, foot on
> brake, start car).
Why?
> Just a way to enforce what you should do anyway (depress clutch, foot on
> brake, start car).
The car is in neutral, the handbrake is on, if the car is in any way
dodgy I'll have my left foot on the clutch to reduce the spinning mass a
little, and I want my right foot ready to hit the accelerator to keep it
going when it fires. I've once or twice had cars that just won't start
without a whiff of accelerator, they'd be interesting if you needed your
foot on the brake.
Andy
Davey
Nov 24, 2011, 2:46:11 PM11/24/11
to
to perfect.
--
Davey.
The Natural Philosopher
Nov 24, 2011, 2:57:23 PM11/24/11
to
> Andy
Tim
Nov 24, 2011, 3:05:04 PM11/24/11
to
gearbox. The handbrake was very weak so my parents always left it in
gear. Unfortunately, you couldn't then select neutral until the engine was
running.
Consequently, you needed a foot on the clutch, a foot on the brake and one
to jiggle the throttle with. Okay, you could heel and toe the brake and
throttle but it had a floor starter pedal/button as well. At this point we
were pressed into service. ;-)
Tim
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Davey
Nov 24, 2011, 6:11:11 PM11/24/11
to
where somebody was saying that he liked to have the handbrake on the
outside, as some cars did at that time, so that he could release the
brake at the same time as putting the car in gear. He was asked in
return if he declared his third hand, the one he held the steering
wheel with, as a disability.
--
Davey.
gri...@gmail.com
Nov 25, 2011, 8:16:51 AM11/25/11
to
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:50:29 GMT, Jethro <krazy...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
>> 1) Why do I have to press the brake pedal on my dizzle C4 before turning
>> the ignition to start the engine? Is this just a safety thing so no 5
>> year old kid can start it by accident?
>
>Just a way to enforce what you should do anyway (depress clutch, foot on
>brake, start car).
I've never done that. Was never taught to do that, and see no reason
to do that. Fwiw, I always check it's out of gear and handbrake is on
anyway, so avoids the need for that.
Apart from that, the idea of imposing a fairly hefty clutch bearing
load on a stone-cold bearing and crank thrust washers is just plain
daft.
wrote:
>> 1) Why do I have to press the brake pedal on my dizzle C4 before turning
>> the ignition to start the engine? Is this just a safety thing so no 5
>> year old kid can start it by accident?
>
>Just a way to enforce what you should do anyway (depress clutch, foot on
>brake, start car).
to do that. Fwiw, I always check it's out of gear and handbrake is on
anyway, so avoids the need for that.
Apart from that, the idea of imposing a fairly hefty clutch bearing
load on a stone-cold bearing and crank thrust washers is just plain
daft.
Davey
Nov 25, 2011, 9:14:01 AM11/25/11
to
leave the clutch alone, just as you say.
--
Davey.
charles
Nov 25, 2011, 11:57:35 AM11/25/11
to
In article <jao7r8$qv1$3...@n102.xanadu-bbs.net>,
and I was taught to depress the clutch. If you simply leave it in neutral
you are trying to stir up the cold oil in the gearbox and put an extra load
on the starter motor/battry.
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16
you are trying to stir up the cold oil in the gearbox and put an extra load
on the starter motor/battry.
--
From KT24
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.16
Davey
Nov 25, 2011, 12:30:26 PM11/25/11
to
cold climate, the depress clutch one would have more effect than
in a warm climate.
--
Davey.
charles
Nov 25, 2011, 12:44:56 PM11/25/11
to
Davey
Nov 25, 2011, 1:14:57 PM11/25/11
to
On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 17:44:56 +0000 (GMT)
So you are probably good at hill starts?
--
Davey.
--
Davey.
The Medway Handyman
Nov 25, 2011, 1:46:05 PM11/25/11
to
The Natural Philosopher
Nov 25, 2011, 2:26:18 PM11/25/11
to
Cold clutch release bearings are pretty draggy too..
Andy Champ
Nov 25, 2011, 4:37:31 PM11/25/11
to
On 24/11/2011 19:46, Davey wrote:
>
> The technique is called 'Heel and Toe'. It just requires some practice
> to perfect.
I heel and toe sometimes on downshifts, especially when the box is cold.
>
> The technique is called 'Heel and Toe'. It just requires some practice
> to perfect.
I see no need to do it when starting the engine.
If someone tried to sell me that feature on a new car I'd regard it as a
reason not to buy it. Along with xenon headlights (hate the sharp
cutoff) LED taillights (but only the ones with the cheapskate flickery
circuit to re-use the same LEDs for brake and tail) automatic headlamp
levelling (I like the manual one, for when I'm following someone down a
bouncy road)...
Perhaps I should get a Caterham. Goes well, no wasteful gadgets. Not
sure about the crashworthiness though...
Andy
gri...@gmail.com
Nov 25, 2011, 7:52:28 PM11/25/11
to
On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 16:57:35 +0000 (GMT), charles
<cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>and I was taught to depress the clutch. If you simply leave it in neutral
>you are trying to stir up the cold oil in the gearbox and put an extra load
>on the starter motor/battry.
Not much - the input shaft will turn the layshaft but not the rest of
<cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>and I was taught to depress the clutch. If you simply leave it in neutral
>you are trying to stir up the cold oil in the gearbox and put an extra load
>on the starter motor/battry.
the gearbox. As for the drag of cold oil - not a huge amount involved
in the typical car 'box.
Davey
Nov 25, 2011, 9:01:01 PM11/25/11
to
particular conditions.
After living in the US, where headlights are not allowed to cut off,
any European lights are good.
When you get your Caterham, let me know, I would love a drive of it!
--
Davey.
Windmill
Nov 26, 2011, 3:48:31 AM11/26/11
to
banger (he insisted that no car made after 1939 was any good, but he
did have it checked by a garage a day or two beforehand).
The examiner had me stop on what I'm pretty sure was the steepest
street in town (memory says it was that little street that runs off to
the right near the top of The Mound) and asked me to do a hill start.
At which I succeeded, without rolling back, though I wonder if I could
do it today in a car of that age.
I bet the examiner was hoping I'd fail.
Starting Dad's old bangers in winter generally required that the clutch
be depressed, the handbrake be off, the choke pulled out, and second gear
engaged.
Then after the car was moving fast enough down a hill, one released the
clutch, and with luck the engine would start before the foot of the
hill was reached!
Happy days.
--
Windmill, Til...@Nonetel.com Use t m i l l
J.R.R. Tolkien:- @ O n e t e l . c o m
All that is gold does not glister / Not all who wander are lost
charles
Nov 28, 2011, 8:52:22 AM11/28/11
to
In article <Lv9F4...@freebie.onetel.net.uk>,
Windmill <spam-n...@Onetel.net.uk.invalid> wrote:
[Snip]
> So did I, and my 17 year old self sat the test in my father's old
> banger (he insisted that no car made after 1939 was any good, but he
> did have it checked by a garage a day or two beforehand).
> The examiner had me stop on what I'm pretty sure was the steepest
> street in town (memory says it was that little street that runs off to
> the right near the top of The Mound) and asked me to do a hill start.
obviously a favourite with examiners. My mother, in the late 1920s, took an
international test (there was no British test at the time) and that was the
hill used. (
Windmill <spam-n...@Onetel.net.uk.invalid> wrote:
[Snip]
> So did I, and my 17 year old self sat the test in my father's old
> banger (he insisted that no car made after 1939 was any good, but he
> did have it checked by a garage a day or two beforehand).
> The examiner had me stop on what I'm pretty sure was the steepest
> street in town (memory says it was that little street that runs off to
> the right near the top of The Mound) and asked me to do a hill start.
international test (there was no British test at the time) and that was the
hill used. (
0 new messages