Recessed spots - hole too big!

[Paul D Smith]

Precis - the idiot who installed the halogen spots in my bathroom cut the
holes too big. The main body of the light literally "springs" into the hole
and the entire fitting only stays put because the "bulb holder" section with
the "nice trim" is slightly larger than the hole.

Any ideas how do I make the hole smaller?

Options I've considered so far...

1. Insulation tape around the fitting - NO! The fitting gets far too hot and
in any place the holes are so much too large, the tape would show in places.

2. Replace the large plasterboard section and redrill correct size holes -
would rather not.

3. Replace a foot square or so of plasterboard and redrill holes - how do I
ensure it fixes well and could I really get a nice smooth, "joint free"
ceiling?

4. Buy slightly bigger light fittings - giving this some serious thought.
But are these fittings a standard size?

5. Some how "fill" the existing holes and redrill, perhaps moving them a
fraction? Not convinced I could get a good finish.

6. <Insert your suggestion here>

Thanks,
Paul DS.

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <j9t88e$9hn$1...@dont-email.me>,

"Paul D Smith" <paul_d...@hotmail.com> writes:
> Precis - the idiot who installed the halogen spots in my bathroom cut the
> holes too big. The main body of the light literally "springs" into the hole
> and the entire fitting only stays put because the "bulb holder" section with
> the "nice trim" is slightly larger than the hole.
>
> Any ideas how do I make the hole smaller?
>
> Options I've considered so far...
>
> 1. Insulation tape around the fitting - NO! The fitting gets far too hot and
> in any place the holes are so much too large, the tape would show in places.
>
> 2. Replace the large plasterboard section and redrill correct size holes -
> would rather not.
>
> 3. Replace a foot square or so of plasterboard and redrill holes - how do I
> ensure it fixes well and could I really get a nice smooth, "joint free"
> ceiling?
>
> 4. Buy slightly bigger light fittings - giving this some serious thought.
> But are these fittings a standard size?

No.
The eyeball ones use larger holes.
There are also MR16 lamps designed to retrofit into R63 holes.

> 5. Some how "fill" the existing holes and redrill, perhaps moving them a
> fraction? Not convinced I could get a good finish.
>
> 6. <Insert your suggestion here>

Fill the holes, and install proper lighting instead.
You don't want holes punched through ceilings, particularly bathrooms
and kitchens, and both these rooms need high quality lighting, which
is impossible with downlighters.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

[robgraham]

On Nov 15, 8:44 am, and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel)
wrote:
> In article <j9t88e$9h...@dont-email.me>,

I presume Andrew's comment about downlighters in bathroom and kitchen
ceilings is due to the potential problem of water vapour passing into
the cavity above.

In terms of his concern over the lighting quality I disagree with him
in that in both rooms, the activities occur in defined places and the
lighting can be placed accordingly and results in shadow free
situations. Apart from over the table, my low ceilinged kitchen uses
only downlighters. The north facing bathroom does have an uplighter
above the bath but otherwise uses downlighters. It's 25 years since
all this lot went in and I'm not detecting any water vapour
condensation problems and have always found the lighting excellent.

I know that doesn't help your problem. The technique I've used for
plasterboard holes in the past is a suitable patch screwed onto short
battens bridging the hole on the inside. I imagine I would fasten
both with grab adhesive now. The quality of finishing is up to you
small area plastering skills.

Rob

[harry]

For making up a hole in plasterboard, I have used two pieces of
plaster board. One to fit the hole and one bigger glued on to it.
This can be glued in place, obviously with the bigger piece on top.
After the glue has set, cut a new hole.
Or alternatively if the hole is only slightly too big just glue an
oversize piece of plasterboard behind the hole and when it has set,
make up round the periphery with plaster. When set, cut the new
smaller hole.
For glue I use the thicker PVA glue.

[David WE Roberts]

"Paul D Smith" <paul_d...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:j9t88e$9hn$1...@dont-email.me...

As long as the fittings have the reach for slightly thicker plaster board,
you might consider a plate made from thin ply with the correct sized hole
fixed above the current plasterboard.
Not sure what temperatures are achieved around the fitting so other less
flammable material might be better?
Ah yes - I have a spare asbestos cement sheet you could have ;-)

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

[harry]

> For glue I use the thicker PVA glue.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Oh! and mix the plaster with PVA in the water (50/50 mix). Less likely
to crack when sawing the new hole. And pre-treat the plaster board
with PVA/water mix

[Jonathan]

On Nov 15, 8:35 am, "Paul D Smith" <paul_d_sm...@hotmail.com> wrote:

When I had this problem when I was replacing some existing
downlighters. I glued strips of cardboard with PVA round the edge of
the hole to make it the right size. The lip of the light fittings hid
the cardboard. they were like that for about ten years without any
problems.

Jonathan

[Paul D Smith]

> As long as the fittings have the reach for slightly thicker plaster board,
> you might consider a plate made from thin ply with the correct sized hole
> fixed above the current plasterboard.
> Not sure what temperatures are achieved around the fitting so other less
> flammable material might be better?
> Ah yes - I have a spare asbestos cement sheet you could have ;-)

Umm, liking that idea, apart from the asbestos of course. Might have to do
two "half strips" though because I need to insert the ply through the
existing holes - there's no access to the roof space because we have a flat
(1920s) roof and no crawl space. Just realised that most of you were
probably expecting to nip up into the loft to put stuff in place :-(.

Paul DS.

[Jim K]

mmmm if you were to glue a ring of plasterboard in the existing hole -
how wide would the pboard ring have to be?

Jim K

[Paul D Smith]

"Jim K" <jk98...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ce2b7f49-d3fb-411b...@u6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com...

Now very unless I increased the hole. I'm guessing the difference is <10mm
all around - not much but the "rim" on the fitting isn't that big. If I did
drill a bigger hole, how would I solidly glue the hole and plasterboard ring
together? What's string enough for the job?

Paul DS.

[Jim K]

On Nov 15, 10:02 am, "Paul D Smith" <paul_d_sm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Jim K" <jk989...@gmail.com> wrote in message

ah a kindred keyboard sporit!

no more nails type stuff? will need support whilst sets and do let it
set!!, remember to recess slightly so you can skim with filler and
sand etc as necess....

Jim K

[Jim K]

also you could cut a disc to fill one, then recut a correct sized hole
in it when set and filled, paiinted etc?

Jim K

[Tim Watts]

If you only need a few mm to make a difference, how about some flat ali
strip (thickish), cut and bent into a circle and glued inside the hole? You
can always repeat for an extra few mm off. PVA the inside edge of the hole
and use something that doesn't mind the heat to stick it.

--
Tim Watts

[GB]

robgraham wrote:
>
> I know that doesn't help your problem. The technique I've used for
> plasterboard holes in the past is a suitable patch screwed onto short
> battens bridging the hole on the inside. I imagine I would fasten
> both with grab adhesive now. The quality of finishing is up to you
> small area plastering skills.

I'm looking at doing this. Do you make the holes square first with say a
reciprocating tool, or do you attempt to make a round patch of plasterboard?

[Jim K]

won;t necessarily work if, like the OP, you want to refit the same
lights in the same place, as you will then have battens etc in the
way....

Jim K

[F Murtz]

Large stainless (or other decorative material) washers with the right
internal size and outer big enough to cover hole ?

[Paul D Smith]

> Large stainless (or other decorative material) washers with the right
> internal size and outer big enough to cover hole ?

Umm, interesting thought. Wonder is one of the local sheds has some
suitable plate? Cutting it into a washer could be interested.

Paul DS

[Jules Richardson]

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 08:35:22 +0000, Paul D Smith wrote:
> 3. Replace a foot square or so of plasterboard and redrill holes - how
> do I ensure it fixes well and could I really get a nice smooth, "joint
> free" ceiling?

Brace it on the reverse-side with wood battens, screwed securely to the
ceiling and repair piece, then fill the screw holes afterwards. Notch the
join, tape and fill.

It's a headache - and as it's a ceiling rather than a wall I'd be worried
about flexing damaging the joins, too; personally I'd rule out other
possible approaches first.

(if you do go this route, cutting the holes for the lights in the repair
pieces before you attach them would seem like a good plan)

cheers

Jules

[D.M.Chapman]

In article <j9t88e$9hn$1...@dont-email.me>,

Paul D Smith <paul_d...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Any ideas how do I make the hole smaller?

I did pretty much this a while back (only one, might drive you mad if
you have loads to do :-) )

Assuming the lamps will fit in a thicker bit of board, I cut the correct
sized hole in a spare bit of plasterboard, then hacked it up so it was
in two bits - sort of crescent shaped I guess.

Smear a load of no nails type glue up through the hole onto the top of
the ceiling around the hole, and then poke the two pieces of "hole" up
through and stick to the ceiling so you end up with the correct sized
hole albeit inset by the thickness of the original board. Go to pub.

Next day, fill the recess around the edge of the hole with polyfilla that's
fairly thick. Once dry, it was easy enough to scrape around the edge of
the hole to make the lamp fit, and to sand flat with a sander that was
large enough to cover the entire hole.

Worked well, and wasn't as much faffing as I've made it sound. Sucks if
you've got 20 to do though :-)

Darren

[andrew]

Fittings are available in a wide range of sizes - you will be able to
find some to fit your holes. Alternatively it's fairly easy to redrill
the holes to make them bigger, so go for lights bigger than the
existing holes. What size are your current holes?

A

[ARWadsworth]

So you would put me out of a job then:-)

I guess that I have fitted about 10,000 downlights.

The customer is always right when they are paying me.

--
Adam

[Andrew Gabriel]

In article <j9ufh9$vn0$1...@dont-email.me>,

"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
>
> I guess that I have fitted about 10,000 downlights.

That would be half a megawatt of extremely low efficiency lighting...

> The customer is always right when they are paying me.
>

--

[Gareth]

On 15/11/2011 08:35, Paul D Smith wrote:
> Precis - the idiot who installed the halogen spots in my bathroom
> cut the holes too big. The main body of the light literally
> "springs" into the hole and the entire fitting only stays put because
> the "bulb holder" section with the "nice trim" is slightly larger
> than the hole.
>
> Any ideas how do I make the hole smaller?
>
> Options I've considered so far...
>
> 1. Insulation tape around the fitting - NO! The fitting gets far too
> hot and in any place the holes are so much too large, the tape would
> show in places.
>
> 2. Replace the large plasterboard section and redrill correct size
> holes - would rather not.
>
> 3. Replace a foot square or so of plasterboard and redrill holes -
> how do I ensure it fixes well and could I really get a nice smooth,
> "joint free" ceiling?
>

How about fixing a bit of wood to the ceiling and, rather than trying to
hide it, make it look like an ornamental feature? e.g. paint it to match
the bath or bath panel or something?

Depending on the style of your bathroom and how much effort you want to
put in, it could look good or it could look like some idiot cut the
holes for the lights too big and you tried to hide it with a big bit of
wood :)

[John Miller]

"Paul D Smith" wrote in message news:j9t88e$9hn$1...@dont-email.me...

-----------------------------------------

TLC do a convertor kit which might help

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Lighting_Menu_Index/Lighting_Downlights_Index/Downlight_Converter_Kit/index.html

John M

[Paul D Smith]

...snip...

> TLC do a convertor kit which might help
>
> http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Lighting_Menu_Index/Lighting_Downlights_Index/Downlight_Converter_Kit/index.html
>
> John M

Liking that idea. Off to find out more and discuss with SWMBO.

Paul DS.

[ARWadsworth]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
> In article <j9ufh9$vn0$1...@dont-email.me>,
> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
>>
>> I guess that I have fitted about 10,000 downlights.
>
> That would be half a megawatt of extremely low efficiency lighting...

The last 1000 were 4W LEDs:-)

I have only got 4 35W spots in my house. One straight above the computer
keyboard and 3 in the bathroom (thats one above the shower and two for
general lighting, I have a mirror light for proper use.


--
Adam

[ARWadsworth]

Paul D Smith wrote:
> Precis - the idiot who installed the halogen spots in my bathroom cut
> the holes too big. The main body of the light literally "springs"
> into the hole and the entire fitting only stays put because the "bulb
> holder" section with the "nice trim" is slightly larger than the hole.
>
> Any ideas how do I make the hole smaller?
>
> Options I've considered so far...

Get the pillock back to fix it or buy larger light fittings.

What size are the holes?

--
Adam

[Paul D Smith]

> Get the pillock back to fix it or buy larger light fittings.

No idea who it was - before my time!

>
> What size are the holes?

Off to measure over the weekend.

Paul DS

[ARWadsworth]

My wholesalers would sell the fitting without lamp and transformer for about
£3.

If there were 4 lights to change for slightly larger ones I would not mess
about trying to make the holes smaller even if I had to pay a little more
than £3 per light.
--
Adam

[perry....@gmail.com]

Cut a hole 200mm diameter. Cut new plaster board same diameter to fit hole. Cut new hole in centre of new insert with tank cutter for MR16. Fit a couple of wooden battens say 8-12mm thick 20 mm wide 250mm long screw them into the ceiling with plasterboard screws black coloured into the enlarged whole so it misses the new MR16 hole. Fit new plasterboard screw into battens. Fill gaps and screw head recesses. The springs for the MR16 fitting should fit between battens.

[John Rumm]

On 11/12/2013 15:29, perry....@gmail.com wrote:


> Cut a hole 200mm diameter. Cut new plaster board same diameter to fit
> hole. Cut new hole in centre of new insert with tank cutter for MR16.

[snip]

Nice one perry... you do realise you are answering a question posted
over two years ago?


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
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\=================================================================/

[Adrian]

On Wed, 11 Dec 2013 18:39:05 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

> On 11/12/2013 15:29, perry....@gmail.com wrote:
>> Cut a hole 200mm diameter. Cut new plaster board same diameter to fit
>> hole. Cut new hole in centre of new insert with tank cutter for MR16.

> [snip]
>
> Nice one perry... you do realise you are answering a question posted
> over two years ago?

Could be worse. There's some other arsenugget suddenly replied to a 15yo
query...

[meow...@care2.com]

On Wednesday, December 11, 2013 6:39:05 PM UTC, John Rumm wrote:

> On 11/12/2013 15:29, perry.jones wrote:

> > Cut a hole 200mm diameter. Cut new plaster board same diameter to fit
> > hole. Cut new hole in centre of new insert with tank cutter for MR16.

> Nice one perry... you do realise you are answering a question posted
> over two years ago?

Sometimes it does take that long to get jobs done :)


NT