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Converting an airing cupboard to a drying room.
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Stephen H
Dec 31, 2011, 5:34:23 AM12/31/11
to
As part of converting heating & hot water to a condensing combi boiler
in the house, the HW cylinder will be redundant.
SWMBO wants me to convert the airing cupboard into a drying rooom....
I don't disagree with her thoughts, I have a game plan worked up and
want to share it if (a) anyone has any better ideas or suggestions or
(b) from those who have been there and done that.....
My game plan is:
Take out the three sheets of plasterboard off air cupboard walls, fit
Celotex from floor to ceiling, replace plasterboard back in. This is to
(a) keep the heat energy in within the cupboard anf (b) avoid heating
the rest of the house up.
Fit a extractor fan in ceiling controlled by a humidstat, so that if
there is humid air in the cupboard, the fan will turn on to pump it out.
Cut a rectangular hole in bottom of the door, fit grilles on both sides
of the door. (this is so that we can shut the door and the fan will not
be trying to suck against a sealed airing cupboard, creating a vacuum
and that dry air can get into the "drying room" to replace the humid air
being removed.
Fit two tall and narrow towel rail radiators, one on the left wall and
the other on the right wall.
Make some waterproof wood lattice shelving that can be positioned at any
height between the two towel radiators, a sort of flexible clothes horse
arrangement.
Fit a push button timer that when pressed will open a zone valve for
these two radiators and send a signal to boiler to start heating. When
push button timer runs out, zone valve closes and boiler is told to
stop. (There will be a bathroom radiator permanently open to the boiler
for boiler pump over-run)
We have thought of tumble dryers but we see two problems, one is static
electricity on the clothes and electricity is four times the cost of gas
for the same amount of energy.
Are there anything else I need to be aware of? What about washable
anti-mould paints for the interior surfaces?
Regards
Stephen
in the house, the HW cylinder will be redundant.
SWMBO wants me to convert the airing cupboard into a drying rooom....
I don't disagree with her thoughts, I have a game plan worked up and
want to share it if (a) anyone has any better ideas or suggestions or
(b) from those who have been there and done that.....
My game plan is:
Take out the three sheets of plasterboard off air cupboard walls, fit
Celotex from floor to ceiling, replace plasterboard back in. This is to
(a) keep the heat energy in within the cupboard anf (b) avoid heating
the rest of the house up.
Fit a extractor fan in ceiling controlled by a humidstat, so that if
there is humid air in the cupboard, the fan will turn on to pump it out.
Cut a rectangular hole in bottom of the door, fit grilles on both sides
of the door. (this is so that we can shut the door and the fan will not
be trying to suck against a sealed airing cupboard, creating a vacuum
and that dry air can get into the "drying room" to replace the humid air
being removed.
Fit two tall and narrow towel rail radiators, one on the left wall and
the other on the right wall.
Make some waterproof wood lattice shelving that can be positioned at any
height between the two towel radiators, a sort of flexible clothes horse
arrangement.
Fit a push button timer that when pressed will open a zone valve for
these two radiators and send a signal to boiler to start heating. When
push button timer runs out, zone valve closes and boiler is told to
stop. (There will be a bathroom radiator permanently open to the boiler
for boiler pump over-run)
We have thought of tumble dryers but we see two problems, one is static
electricity on the clothes and electricity is four times the cost of gas
for the same amount of energy.
Are there anything else I need to be aware of? What about washable
anti-mould paints for the interior surfaces?
Regards
Stephen
Tim Lamb
Dec 31, 2011, 5:52:10 AM12/31/11
to
In message <pKSdnQJBqsW1eGPT...@brightview.co.uk>, Stephen
H <ilov...@pleasespamme.com> writes
extracting to the neighbours garden when the humidity reaches a preset
level, double ducting and a heat recovery fan might be worthwhile.
How will you heat the cupboard in the Summer?
regards
--
Tim Lamb
H <ilov...@pleasespamme.com> writes
>As part of converting heating & hot water to a condensing combi boiler
>in the house, the HW cylinder will be redundant.
>
>SWMBO wants me to convert the airing cupboard into a drying rooom....
If you are putting that amount of heat into the cupboard and then
>in the house, the HW cylinder will be redundant.
>
>SWMBO wants me to convert the airing cupboard into a drying rooom....
extracting to the neighbours garden when the humidity reaches a preset
level, double ducting and a heat recovery fan might be worthwhile.
How will you heat the cupboard in the Summer?
regards
--
Tim Lamb
Graham.
Dec 31, 2011, 6:14:49 AM12/31/11
to
dehumidifier?
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
Graham.
Dec 31, 2011, 6:16:34 AM12/31/11
to
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Clothes_dryer
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
Stephen H
Dec 31, 2011, 6:25:31 AM12/31/11
to
On 31/12/2011 11:16, Graham. wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 11:14:49 +0000, Graham.<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 10:34:23 +0000, Stephen H
>> <ilov...@pleasespamme.com> wrote:
>>
>>> As part of converting heating& hot water to a condensing combi boiler
> On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 11:14:49 +0000, Graham.<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 10:34:23 +0000, Stephen H
>> <ilov...@pleasespamme.com> wrote:
>>
landing of our house, and SWMBO complains that the noise keeps her awake
at night and it also makes the house stuffy as it apparently dries it
out too much.
Stephen.
MuddyMike
Dec 31, 2011, 6:23:45 AM12/31/11
to
"Stephen H" <ilov...@pleasespamme.com> wrote in message
news:pKSdnQJBqsW1eGPT...@brightview.co.uk...
> As part of converting heating & hot water to a condensing combi boiler in
> the house, the HW cylinder will be redundant.
>
> SWMBO wants me to convert the airing cupboard into a drying rooom....
>
> I don't disagree with her thoughts, I have a game plan worked up and want
> to share it if (a) anyone has any better ideas or suggestions or (b) from
> those who have been there and done that.....
>
> My game plan is:
Forget all that and just buy a dehumidifier, perhaps go as far as running a
> the house, the HW cylinder will be redundant.
>
> SWMBO wants me to convert the airing cupboard into a drying rooom....
>
> I don't disagree with her thoughts, I have a game plan worked up and want
> to share it if (a) anyone has any better ideas or suggestions or (b) from
> those who have been there and done that.....
>
> My game plan is:
permanent drain to save having to empty the container.
Mike
Andrew Gabriel
Dec 31, 2011, 6:38:04 AM12/31/11
to
In article <bhXha5Lalu$OF...@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk>,
Keep the cupboard sealed, and heat it with a dehumidifier.
Use a humidistat (or a dehumidifier with one built in).
Use a room thermostat to cut out the dehumidifier at max
working temperature (typically 30C).
Don't fit the insulation in the walls.
Use the condensate collected by the dehumidifier for filling
the steam iron. (You'll get way more than you need.) I also
use it for watering plants which can't take tap water.
You may want to fit vents in the cupboard for occasions when
you want things to dry, but there's no urgency, so you don't
need to run the dehumidifier. I have thought of using a fan
to extract hot air from the loft in the summer, blow that
through the cupboard, and then out through a vent. Not got
around to it yet though.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
Use a humidistat (or a dehumidifier with one built in).
Use a room thermostat to cut out the dehumidifier at max
working temperature (typically 30C).
Don't fit the insulation in the walls.
Use the condensate collected by the dehumidifier for filling
the steam iron. (You'll get way more than you need.) I also
use it for watering plants which can't take tap water.
You may want to fit vents in the cupboard for occasions when
you want things to dry, but there's no urgency, so you don't
need to run the dehumidifier. I have thought of using a fan
to extract hot air from the loft in the summer, blow that
through the cupboard, and then out through a vent. Not got
around to it yet though.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
Stephen H
Dec 31, 2011, 6:57:19 AM12/31/11
to
On 31/12/2011 11:23, MuddyMike wrote:
> "Stephen H"<ilov...@pleasespamme.com> wrote in message
> news:pKSdnQJBqsW1eGPT...@brightview.co.uk...
>> As part of converting heating& hot water to a condensing combi boiler in
> "Stephen H"<ilov...@pleasespamme.com> wrote in message
> news:pKSdnQJBqsW1eGPT...@brightview.co.uk...
>> the house, the HW cylinder will be redundant.
>>
>> SWMBO wants me to convert the airing cupboard into a drying rooom....
>>
>> I don't disagree with her thoughts, I have a game plan worked up and want
>> to share it if (a) anyone has any better ideas or suggestions or (b) from
>> those who have been there and done that.....
>>
>> My game plan is:
>
> Forget all that and just buy a dehumidifier, perhaps go as far as running a
> permanent drain to save having to empty the container.
>
> Mike
>
>
I have read the DiY wiki and it mentions that dehumidifying is quicker
>>
>> SWMBO wants me to convert the airing cupboard into a drying rooom....
>>
>> I don't disagree with her thoughts, I have a game plan worked up and want
>> to share it if (a) anyone has any better ideas or suggestions or (b) from
>> those who have been there and done that.....
>>
>> My game plan is:
>
> Forget all that and just buy a dehumidifier, perhaps go as far as running a
> permanent drain to save having to empty the container.
>
> Mike
>
>
at 30°C than at 20°C....perhaps using both a dehumidifer and a smaller
radiator with a thermostat set 30°C in the airing cupboard?
Regards,
Stephen
Stephen H
Dec 31, 2011, 6:57:33 AM12/31/11
to
On 31/12/2011 10:52, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <pKSdnQJBqsW1eGPT...@brightview.co.uk>, Stephen
> H <ilov...@pleasespamme.com> writes
>> As part of converting heating & hot water to a condensing combi boiler
>> in the house, the HW cylinder will be redundant.
>>
>> SWMBO wants me to convert the airing cupboard into a drying rooom....
>
> If you are putting that amount of heat into the cupboard and then
> extracting to the neighbours garden when the humidity reaches a preset
> level, double ducting and a heat recovery fan might be worthwhile.
That is a great point... I've heard of MHRV (Mechanical Heat recovery
> In message <pKSdnQJBqsW1eGPT...@brightview.co.uk>, Stephen
> H <ilov...@pleasespamme.com> writes
>> As part of converting heating & hot water to a condensing combi boiler
>> in the house, the HW cylinder will be redundant.
>>
>> SWMBO wants me to convert the airing cupboard into a drying rooom....
>
> If you are putting that amount of heat into the cupboard and then
> extracting to the neighbours garden when the humidity reaches a preset
> level, double ducting and a heat recovery fan might be worthwhile.
ventilation) I could put the humid air outlet in the ceiling and the
fresh air inlet through to the bottom of the cuboard as I could put the
heat recovery unit in the loft, above the airing cupboard.
Anyone know where I can get a MHRV unit for a single room?
>
> How will you heat the cupboard in the Summer?
>
zone valve for the two rads, fire up the boiler. When the push button
timer runs out, zone valve closes and boiler shuts down. You can see
these push button light switches used in communal areas in blocks of
flats so people don't leave lights on.
> regards
Stephen
Andrew Gabriel
Dec 31, 2011, 7:13:04 AM12/31/11
to
In article <juGdncsfv8cKZWPT...@brightview.co.uk>,
The dehumidifier itself supplies more heat into the cupboard than
the energy it consumes. You don't need any additional heating.
You do need a thermostat to cut it off when the cupboard goes over
the dehumidifier's max operating temperature (typically 30C).
the energy it consumes. You don't need any additional heating.
You do need a thermostat to cut it off when the cupboard goes over
the dehumidifier's max operating temperature (typically 30C).
John Rumm
Dec 31, 2011, 12:29:30 PM12/31/11
to
then ;-)
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
Roberts
Dec 31, 2011, 12:40:04 PM12/31/11
to
"Andrew Gabriel" <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:jdmu8g$qjb$3...@dont-email.me...
Put a vent in the door. Insulate the ceiling (so no heat is lost)
Fix battens along the sides of the wall. Just put some shelves for storage
if required (Blankets, sheets towels ect) Put a selection of cup hooks in
the battens and buy the plastic coated expanding curtail wire and you can
vary the wiring according to what you have washed after fixing the wire to
the hooks.
I have a tropical born wife so the healing is on more than off but that
means the top half of the airing cupboard is mine!.
Robbie
Toby
Dec 31, 2011, 12:55:43 PM12/31/11
to
--
Toby...
Remove pants to reply
MuddyMike
Jan 1, 2012, 4:49:40 AM1/1/12
to
"Andrew Gabriel" <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:jdmu8g$qjb$3...@dont-email.me...
> The dehumidifier itself supplies more heat into the cupboard than
> the energy it consumes.
Wow! I must get a load of those to heat my house...
> the energy it consumes.
You didn't mean to type that did you?
Mike
Onetap
Jan 1, 2012, 5:17:35 AM1/1/12
to
The dehumidifier probably has a CoP greater than 1, but since the heat
source (evaporator) and heat dump (condensor) are in the same room,
most of the heat gain will be by converting the latent heat of
condensation into sensible heat. The mositure is also being evaporated
and condensed in the same room, so there probably isn't much in it.
doctordrivel
Jan 1, 2012, 5:27:24 AM1/1/12
to
news:jdms6s$l69$1...@dont-email.me...
> I have thought of using a fan
> to extract hot air from the loft in the summer, blow that
> through the cupboard, and then out through a vent.
An brings in dust from Rockwool - if fitted.
> I have thought of using a fan
> to extract hot air from the loft in the summer, blow that
> through the cupboard, and then out through a vent.
NT
Jan 1, 2012, 6:56:26 AM1/1/12
to
On Dec 31 2011, 10:34 am, Stephen H <iloves...@pleasespamme.com>
wrote:
To be honest, adding heating is fairly pointless, and an unnecessary
complication and cost. Fanned clothing: shirts dry in a day, jeans in
2. I'd use a ceiling fan, with cut down blades if necessary, rather
than a little extractor fan. So much more effective. Also heat drying
without tumbling causes clothes to go stiff. So all you need is vents
and fan.
Re vents, you might find it looks better to simply cut 1-2" off the
bottom of the door. Grilles are fairly ugly.
NT
wrote:
complication and cost. Fanned clothing: shirts dry in a day, jeans in
2. I'd use a ceiling fan, with cut down blades if necessary, rather
than a little extractor fan. So much more effective. Also heat drying
without tumbling causes clothes to go stiff. So all you need is vents
and fan.
Re vents, you might find it looks better to simply cut 1-2" off the
bottom of the door. Grilles are fairly ugly.
NT
Charlie
Jan 2, 2012, 4:44:09 PM1/2/12
to
On Dec 31 2011, 11:25 am, Stephen H <iloves...@pleasespamme.com>
wrote:
> Yes we have considered thedehumidifieroption, we have one in the
nice and quiet?
wrote:
> On 31/12/2011 11:16, Graham. wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 11:14:49 +0000, Graham.<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> >> On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 10:34:23 +0000, Stephen H
> >> <iloves...@pleasespamme.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 11:14:49 +0000, Graham.<m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> >> On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 10:34:23 +0000, Stephen H
> landing of our house, and SWMBO complains that the noise keeps her awake
> at night and it also makes the house stuffy as it apparently dries it
> out too much.
>
> Stephen.
Is anybody able to recommend a decent humidistat dehumidifier, that is
> at night and it also makes the house stuffy as it apparently dries it
> out too much.
>
> Stephen.
nice and quiet?
js.b1
Jan 2, 2012, 5:27:39 PM1/2/12
to
On Jan 2, 9:44 pm, Charlie <charlieopens...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is anybody able to recommend a decent humidistat dehumidifier, that is
> nice and quiet?
Meaco DD8L Junior can be had for about £120 delivered.
> Is anybody able to recommend a decent humidistat dehumidifier, that is
> nice and quiet?
Junior just means no ioniser & no silver filter (which looks too lame
to do anything).
As a guide 40mm Celotex in a proverbial box-room means 120W tube
heater (*) will keep it at about 15oC with the outside at -1oC and the
wind blowing a stink, single glazed 1x1m window & empty cavity with
slight roof leak, mortar snot laden rotting wall ties and two outside
walls.
So you need very little heat input if you insulate. A dessicant
dehumidifer kicks out a lot of heat because of the internal heater to
dry out the silica gel wheel (120oC+). On normal operation they are
about 350W, but laundry mode pushes that to around 800W which is quite
a lot of heat - and drying.
Just ensure you have a thermostat that shuts OFF above a certain
temperature - you just use a plug in unit with it set to 30oC. The
DD8L & DD8L Junior restart in the last mode when power cycled.
BUT you have a problem - the tanks on dessicant dehumidifiers are
pitifully small - 3-4L as I recall, a Mitsubish EVX is around 8L which
is substantial. So you need to plumb the thing in or have a separate
larger capacity tank (10L drum underneath supplied by the hose).
I suspect 12-25mm Celotex or cheaper 25mm Expanded Polystyrene will be
quite adequate. I think you will run into the problem of it getting
too hot too quickly. So the dessicant type may actually be
problematic. You need good airflow around the clothing.
A final note is the fans on these things DO seize at the bearings, so
in that respect I suggest at least a heat alarm (58oC trip I recall)
in there preferably linked to others in the house. Just because it is
not a tumble dryer does not mean it can not catch fire. Likewise
dessicant dehumidifiers contain various dire warnings about letting
moisture drip into them, I suspect it is the high wattage heater
element, water & mains floating around inside. Lots of glass fibre
insulated wire.
www.GymRatZ.co.uk
Jan 2, 2012, 8:23:03 PM1/2/12
to
On 31/12/2011 11:57, Stephen H wrote:
> That is a great point... I've heard of MHRV (Mechanical Heat recovery
> ventilation) I could put the humid air outlet in the ceiling and the
> fresh air inlet through to the bottom of the cuboard as I could put the
> heat recovery unit in the loft, above the airing cupboard.
The thing that has always bothered me about heat exchanger fan things is
> That is a great point... I've heard of MHRV (Mechanical Heat recovery
> ventilation) I could put the humid air outlet in the ceiling and the
> fresh air inlet through to the bottom of the cuboard as I could put the
> heat recovery unit in the loft, above the airing cupboard.
how long they can go before needing cleaning. Going by the amount of
dust that collects on the dehumidifier filters and the amount of mank
that builds up on bathroom extractor fans how do these units stay clean?
FWIW I would stick clothes rails and a dehumidifier in the cupboard
keeping it as an enclosed space. No harm in having a radiator in there
too though and you could "super-insulate" the ceiling with celotex etc
which would also stop moisture getting into loft space.
Towels can be a pain as they hold so much water even when spun v.fast
I dry clothes and thin cottons etc on 2 x clothes horses stood in front
of a raditor with dehumidifier in the middle all enclosed by a home made
bubble-wrap "tent". Towels get draped over the top of the tent and the
window of the room left open so they benefit from radiator/dehumidifier
heat without saturating dehumidifier.
- Pete
--
http://www.GymRatZ.co.uk Commercial Gym Equipment
http://www.Water-Rower.co.uk WaterRowers and stuff
Tim Lamb
Jan 3, 2012, 6:08:51 AM1/3/12
to
In message <4f02587e$0$2482$db0f...@news.zen.co.uk>, www.GymRatZ.co.uk
<nob...@nowhere.cot> writes
soapy water once per year.
Tenants changed before Christmas so I took the opportunity. No
noticeable dirt at all. However, the fly guard on the exterior suction
filter was coated in dusty fluff.
--
Tim Lamb
<nob...@nowhere.cot> writes
>On 31/12/2011 11:57, Stephen H wrote:
>
>> That is a great point... I've heard of MHRV (Mechanical Heat recovery
>> ventilation) I could put the humid air outlet in the ceiling and the
>> fresh air inlet through to the bottom of the cuboard as I could put the
>> heat recovery unit in the loft, above the airing cupboard.
>
>The thing that has always bothered me about heat exchanger fan things is
>how long they can go before needing cleaning. Going by the amount of
>dust that collects on the dehumidifier filters and the amount of mank
>that builds up on bathroom extractor fans how do these units stay clean?
I fitted one in a flat. The recommendation is to wash the matrix in warm
>
>> That is a great point... I've heard of MHRV (Mechanical Heat recovery
>> ventilation) I could put the humid air outlet in the ceiling and the
>> fresh air inlet through to the bottom of the cuboard as I could put the
>> heat recovery unit in the loft, above the airing cupboard.
>
>The thing that has always bothered me about heat exchanger fan things is
>how long they can go before needing cleaning. Going by the amount of
>dust that collects on the dehumidifier filters and the amount of mank
>that builds up on bathroom extractor fans how do these units stay clean?
soapy water once per year.
Tenants changed before Christmas so I took the opportunity. No
noticeable dirt at all. However, the fly guard on the exterior suction
filter was coated in dusty fluff.
>
>FWIW I would stick clothes rails and a dehumidifier in the cupboard
>keeping it as an enclosed space. No harm in having a radiator in there
>too though and you could "super-insulate" the ceiling with celotex etc
>which would also stop moisture getting into loft space.
>
>Towels can be a pain as they hold so much water even when spun v.fast
>I dry clothes and thin cottons etc on 2 x clothes horses stood in front
>of a raditor with dehumidifier in the middle all enclosed by a home made
>bubble-wrap "tent". Towels get draped over the top of the tent and the
>window of the room left open so they benefit from radiator/dehumidifier
>heat without saturating dehumidifier.
>
>- Pete
>--
>http://www.GymRatZ.co.uk Commercial Gym Equipment
>http://www.Water-Rower.co.uk WaterRowers and stuff
regards
>FWIW I would stick clothes rails and a dehumidifier in the cupboard
>keeping it as an enclosed space. No harm in having a radiator in there
>too though and you could "super-insulate" the ceiling with celotex etc
>which would also stop moisture getting into loft space.
>
>Towels can be a pain as they hold so much water even when spun v.fast
>I dry clothes and thin cottons etc on 2 x clothes horses stood in front
>of a raditor with dehumidifier in the middle all enclosed by a home made
>bubble-wrap "tent". Towels get draped over the top of the tent and the
>window of the room left open so they benefit from radiator/dehumidifier
>heat without saturating dehumidifier.
>
>- Pete
>--
>http://www.GymRatZ.co.uk Commercial Gym Equipment
>http://www.Water-Rower.co.uk WaterRowers and stuff
--
Tim Lamb
Andrew Gabriel
Jan 3, 2012, 1:28:10 PM1/3/12
to
In article <jdniah$gql$1...@dont-email.me>,
In the dehumidifier's hot air stream, you also get the latent
heat back from condensing out the water. This should exactly
compensate for the cooling effect of the wet clothes in the
cupboard.
heat back from condensing out the water. This should exactly
compensate for the cooling effect of the wet clothes in the
cupboard.
Andrew Gabriel
Jan 3, 2012, 1:31:34 PM1/3/12
to
In article <a29ec979-7216-4b58...@b32g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
from Homebase about 10 years ago, probably OEM'ed from EBAC.
They've worked well, and still do.
Charlie <charlie...@gmail.com> writes:
> Is anybody able to recommend a decent humidistat dehumidifier, that is
> nice and quiet?
Mine look identical to a (now obsolete) EBAC model, but were no-names
> Is anybody able to recommend a decent humidistat dehumidifier, that is
> nice and quiet?
from Homebase about 10 years ago, probably OEM'ed from EBAC.
They've worked well, and still do.
NT
Jan 3, 2012, 7:34:14 PM1/3/12
to
fan, go with ionisation or optical.
Theres absolutely no reason for additional heat. Dont insulate or seal
up the cupboard and you dont need a thermostat either.
NT
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