kitchen radiators: where to fit?
Fred
We used to have an old boiler that warmed the kitchen but the modern,
insulated model that has replaced it keeps the kitchen cold. I need to
add a radiator but there is nowhere obvious to fit one because there
are cupboards all around. Other than a fan heater in the plinth, what
else do people do?
TIA
newshound
"Fred" <fr...@no-email.here.invalid> wrote in message
news:3iopj55um5ag9fi06...@4ax.com...
You can get fan radiators to go in the plinth space; I had a Smiths, but
Myson used to do one too. However I took mine out again (noisy and not very
effective), but I do have a wall for a conventional rad. You might find an
electric fan heater in the plinth space cheap and effective, especially if
you don't need too much heat. No plumbing and perhaps more freedom of
placement. Don't block the inlet vents though!
dent
I'm trying to decide what to do in a similar situation. The choice
seems to be either a hydroponic plinth heater (i.e., the heat comes
from what is essentially a compact radiator, and then electric fans
blow air over the radiator and out of the plinth - did you mean this,
or were you thinking of an all electric fan heater?), or a single-zone
under-floor system like a Rayotec Floor Rad.
Normally underfloor systems work by heating the thermal mass of the
floor, and can't deliver heating on-demand heating as a radiator
system can. This makes me think that fitting an underfloor system in-
line with a conventional radiator system might not work as well as the
hydroponic plinth system, but I've not found any comment about this
anywhere.
dan.
John Rumm
Fan assisted kickspace heaters are often the only retrofit option. UFH
is one solution, but not easy to add to an existing kitchen. You may be
able to squeeze in a small fan assisted wall heater like one of the
Myson jobbies if there is some wall space.
--
Cheers,
John.
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Jules
> Other than a fan heater in the plinth, what else do people do?
Switch the cooker on :-) It's rare for anyone to be in ours for any
length of time unless they're cooking something.
The only other heat in ours is a little 'leccy heater and a behemoth of a
30-odd year old fridge. There are three big windows in the room, and a
door to the back porch which has to stay open a little bit to let the
pets come and go - so it gets pretty chilly in there (it's -17C outside at
the mo).
cheers
Jules
The Natural Philosopher
In our case Aga, and underfloor heating. More than enough. Underfloor
rarely comes on. only well below zero outside.
If you are pushed for space, the plinth kick spaces are about all you
can do. Maybe a radiant electric or a fan blown convector somewhere else.
Kitchens are usually warm as the cupboards act as insulators!
> cheers
>
> Jules
>
>
>
Rod
What do we do? Have a cold kitchen. (Except when cooking.)
But that's OK - partner *needs* a cold floor for her feet.
--
Rod
Cicero
================================================
It doesn't have to be a plinth heater because you can get the same type of
heater for high level heating if that's the kind of heating you need. I
think Myson do a 12 volt plinth heater (12 volt fan motor / wet radiator)
and possibly the same for high level.
Cic.
--
=================================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
=================================================
F
> I need to
> add a radiator but there is nowhere obvious to fit one because there
> are cupboards all around.
We were in the same position with no wall space to mount one on when I
put a new kitchen in.
However, the floor to ceiling oven/drawer unit had a side that was
exposed so I put a 1750mm x 600mm heated towel rail on it.
--
F
Peter Johnson
wrote:
In a previous I house the occupants before me had removed the kitchen
radiator, 'it's plenty warm enough', and put something else in its
space, I can't remember what. I found that the kitchen was not warm
enough and mounted a small panel radiator above the worktop - it
worked for me, I don't know if it is still there 12 years after I
moved.
Fred
<dwto...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>The choice
>seems to be either a hydroponic plinth heater (i.e., the heat comes
>from what is essentially a compact radiator, and then electric fans
>blow air over the radiator and out of the plinth - did you mean this,
>or were you thinking of an all electric fan heater?), or a single-zone
>under-floor system like a Rayotec Floor Rad.
Hi.
No, I hadn't heard of those "wet" radiators with fans before. I was
thinking of electric fan heaters. I think the electric ones I have
seen are about 70GBP though, which seems a lot considering "normal fan
heaters are a third that.
I know a lot of people love UFH but I'm not sure. How do you manage to
lift floorboards if they've all got pipes on top? There's always
another cable to fit (tv, telephone, etc)!
Fred
<see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>Fan assisted kickspace heaters are often the only retrofit option.
We will redecorate the kitchen at some point but even then, we will
want to maximise cupboard space so I can't see us creating any extra
room. There is a bit of bare wall and I heard you can get triple
thickness radiators, so perhaps I could squeeze one there. Can anyone
point me in the direction of a make/merchant of these?
The only thing is, it is near the freezer, so I will have to consider
moving the freezer into another corner when we redo the kitchen.
Cicero
================================================
If �70-00p is expensive don't look at the prices of the wet type until
you've got a strong drink in your hand. Try a google for Myson plinth
heaters.
Andrew Gabriel
Fred <fr...@no-email.here.invalid> writes:
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:17:18 +0000, John Rumm
> <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>
>>Fan assisted kickspace heaters are often the only retrofit option.
>
> We will redecorate the kitchen at some point but even then, we will
> want to maximise cupboard space so I can't see us creating any extra
> room. There is a bit of bare wall and I heard you can get triple
> thickness radiators, so perhaps I could squeeze one there. Can anyone
> point me in the direction of a make/merchant of these?
I used UltraHeat Compact 4 and Ultraheat Compact 6.
The number refers to the number of pipe connection points.
The 6 has two extra connections up into the bottom towards
one end, so you don't need any side pipework. (Still need
side access one end for access to the bleed valve, but other
end can be hard up against something with no space lost for
pipework.)
Sadly, their website is complete crap. You need to get a
leaflet of their range from a plumbers merchant.
However, in my kitchen, I used a narrow (but quite tall)
double. Kitchens have lots of their own heat sources and
generally don't need to be as warm as some other rooms in
the house anyway. If you have the oven and hob going, you
want the kitchen rad to shut itself down with a TRV too.
> The only thing is, it is near the freezer, so I will have to consider
> moving the freezer into another corner when we redo the kitchen.
I had a bit of spare wall next to the back door, and that's
a good place as it counteracts the inevitable coldness from
the door itself.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
Fred
wrote:
>If �70-00p is expensive don't look at the prices of the wet type until
>you've got a strong drink in your hand. Try a google for Myson plinth
>heaters.
Thank you. They sounded ideal but I did the search and you are right,
they are very expensive. Is that simply a numbers thing: not many are
sold so the price is high?
Fred
(Andrew Gabriel) wrote:
[about triple radiators]
> used UltraHeat Compact 4 and Ultraheat Compact 6.
>The number refers to the number of pipe connection points.
>The 6 has two extra connections up into the bottom towards
>one end, so you don't need any side pipework. (Still need
>side access one end for access to the bleed valve, but other
>end can be hard up against something with no space lost for
>pipework.)
>
>Sadly, their website is complete crap. You need to get a
>leaflet of their range from a plumbers merchant.
Thanks, now that I've got a brand name I will look into triples but
whilst these may allow me to use a narrower radiator, I will need to
look carefully at how deep they are. Does anyone else make them?
>However, in my kitchen, I used a narrow (but quite tall)
>double. Kitchens have lots of their own heat sources and
>generally don't need to be as warm as some other rooms in
>the house anyway. If you have the oven and hob going, you
>want the kitchen rad to shut itself down with a TRV too.
Like you, I did wonder about using a narrow but tall double radiator.
Perhaps that will work out cheaper than a triple? It's frustrating
because I can get 600mm tall radiators from Screwfix or Toolstation
for forty-odd pounds. Sadly they don't sell anything taller and if I
look elsewhere even a 700mm radiator is twice that price.
>I had a bit of spare wall next to the back door, and that's
>a good place as it counteracts the inevitable coldness from
>the door itself.
We have a cold door too: it's mostly glazed. I guess replacing it with
a warmer door should be put on the wish-list. I wasn't sure if it was
a bad idea to put the radiator right next to it for fear of losing all
the heat every time it was opened.
Cicero
=================================================
That's probably one of the reasons; another reason is that they're not
always suitable because they give out little or no heat once the fan
switches off. A standard panel radiator will give heat for quite a long
time after the boiler switches off or the TRV closes.
Cicero
================================================
There is another remote possible solution to your problem. If you have a
suspended floor you could explore the possibility of installing 'trench'
heaters. These are effectively wet heating elements fitted in to trenches
or channels in the floor. It wouldn't be easy but if all else fails it
might be worth considering although an overhead infrared heater would be
much easier.
geraldthehamster
This might be a bit off the wall (haha), but can you take pipework
from your central heating system into the kitchen? You could take the
kickboards off under the units, and run some 22mm copper pipe all the
way round, in the front. Put some 25mm foiled Kingspan behind, the
keep the heat on the kitchen side and reflect it out, and put some
kind of grille over the front. Floor-level radiator all round the
kitchen. If you can't get all the way round you could double it back
on itself.
Cheers
Richard
Fred
<diy...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>This might be a bit off the wall (haha), but can you take pipework
>from your central heating system into the kitchen? You could take the
>kickboards off under the units, and run some 22mm copper pipe all the
>way round, in the front. Put some 25mm foiled Kingspan behind, the
>keep the heat on the kitchen side and reflect it out, and put some
>kind of grille over the front. Floor-level radiator all round the
>kitchen. If you can't get all the way round you could double it back
>on itself.
The boiler is in the kitchen so all the CH pipe work is in there but
rightly or wrongly it has been lagged. Perhaps if I took the lagging
off, it would heat the kitchen. Perhaps this is a case of insulation
being a bad thing?
You mentioned 22mm pipe, I presume because it has the greatest volume
but I wonder whether surface area is more important for heating? Would
a lot of microbore be better. I'm not thinking of doing this, I'm too
lazy, but it's interesting to think about it. If you added a little
fan, I am sure it would be the equivalent of these Myson hydronic
radiators that cost a small fortune.
On the subject of triple radiators, I did a search for ultraheat but
only found a couple of companies selling them and they looked like the
same company under two names and the delivery charges cost more than a
Screwfix standard 600mm double radiator. I may resort to buying the
latter and hope it doesn't heat the freezer too much. By my
calculations it will stop in line with the freezer door, so it will
not run along side the freezer which is what I wanted to avoid but
will it still be too close for comfort? Still , if that happens I'll
have to swap the freezer into the other corner of the room.
I'm a bit apprehensive about starting the job now because I don't
really want to drain down the system in the middle of this cold spell.
Perhaps I should wait until it warms up, just in case of a mid-job
catastrophe!
Thanks for all your help.
Cicero
================================================
Is there room for some kind of heat shield between the radiator and
freezer? It would only need to be a few millimetres thick.
Fred
wrote:
>Is there room for some kind of heat shield between the radiator and
>freezer? It would only need to be a few millimetres thick.
What were you thinking of: a sheet of celotex?
Cicero
================================================
No. A sheet of aluminium with a layer of the material used behind
radiators to prevent heat loss to outside walls.
There are also specialist materials (but expensive I think) available to
protect car parts from exhaust heat.
geraldthehamster
> The boiler is in the kitchen so all the CH pipe work is in there but
> rightly or wrongly it has been lagged. Perhaps if I took the lagging
> off, it would heat the kitchen. Perhaps this is a case of insulation
> being a bad thing?
>
> You mentioned 22mm pipe, I presume because it has the greatest volume
> but I wonder whether surface area is more important for heating? Would
> a lot of microbore be better.
Well it would certainly put some heat into your kitchen, depending on
where it is and how much of it there is. The only reasons for lagging
pipes are to prevent freezing where applicable, and prevent heat loss
- what you want is heat loss into the room, it seems ;-)
No idea on your question about microbore, but if 22mm is what's
there...
Cheers
Richard
F
> You mentioned 22mm pipe, I presume because it has the greatest volume
> but I wonder whether surface area is more important for heating? Would
> a lot of microbore be better.
If you want heat transfer of any kind you want maximum surface area. In
the case of microbore, there may be a trade-off between the increased
surface area and the resistance offered by the narrower pipe. A decent
pump may overcome this.
--
F
Fred
>
>If you want heat transfer of any kind you want maximum surface area. In
>the case of microbore, there may be a trade-off between the increased
>surface area and the resistance offered by the narrower pipe. A decent
>pump may overcome this.
Thanks for all the replies. Cost dictated the solution, which is to
fit a panel radiator. Thanks again for all your help.