Replace lock barrels with thumbscrews?

[R D S]

I'd prefer thumbscrews on the inside of my patio doors. Mainly because
you can't use a key on the outside if there is still a key on the inside.

Is it possible to fit thumbscrews to the existing, or do I need to
replace the barrel?

[polygonum]

Do you mean patio? Or dungeon?

--
Rod

[newshound]

On 11/08/2013 22:44, R D S wrote:

I assume you are talking about standard eurolocks, in which case I think
you will need to replace the barrel (not expensive or difficult).

The police will say *never* have thumbscrews, the fire brigade say
*always* have them.

[Tim Watts]

I have opted for thumbscrews on a new rear door and again in the
conservatory to which that door leads.

Reasoning:

1) We can escape in a fire (esp kids whose bedromms are next to that door);

2) OK - someone might reach in a window with a tool and operate the
conservatory thumbscrew - but will will have nothing of much value there;

3) There are no windows within reach of the rear door. To operate the
thumbscrew would require breaking a full door size DG glass unit. In which
case, they could walk through the hole!


--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal coverage

Reading this on the web? See:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Usenet

[spuorg...@gowanhill.com]

I think you all mean thumb*turns*.

If it's a Euro cylinder then they can be obtained easily with key one side and thumbturn the other. Eg
http://www.screwfix.com/p/securefast-6-pin-thumbturn-euro-cylinder-lock-35-35-70mm-polished-nickel/99334?_requestid=323746
(Screwfix item code 99334 if the link doesn't work).

Owain

[Graham.]

The crime prevention officer will soon change his mind if you can't
find the key when he's about to leave.

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

[SteveW]

On 11/08/2013 22:44, R D S wrote:

> I'd prefer thumbscrews on the inside of my patio doors. Mainly because
> you can't use a key on the outside if there is still a key on the inside.

You can obtain replacement Euro cylinders with keys inside and out where
inserting a key from one side works even if there is a key in the other
side - "clutch cam" seems to find them. There is also another version
which only works that way from one side, so you have to install them the
right way round

SteveW

[dennis@home]

On 11/08/2013 23:04, Tim Watts wrote:
> On Sunday 11 August 2013 22:56 newshound wrote in uk.d-i-y:
>
>> On 11/08/2013 22:44, R D S wrote:
>>> I'd prefer thumbscrews on the inside of my patio doors. Mainly because
>>> you can't use a key on the outside if there is still a key on the inside.
>>>
>>> Is it possible to fit thumbscrews to the existing, or do I need to
>>> replace the barrel?
>>>
>> I assume you are talking about standard eurolocks, in which case I think
>> you will need to replace the barrel (not expensive or difficult).
>>
>> The police will say *never* have thumbscrews, the fire brigade say
>> *always* have them.
>
> I have opted for thumbscrews on a new rear door and again in the
> conservatory to which that door leads.
>
> Reasoning:
>
> 1) We can escape in a fire (esp kids whose bedromms are next to that door);
>
> 2) OK - someone might reach in a window with a tool and operate the
> conservatory thumbscrew - but will will have nothing of much value there;
>
> 3) There are no windows within reach of the rear door. To operate the
> thumbscrew would require breaking a full door size DG glass unit. In which
> case, they could walk through the hole!
>
>

Its not that simple..

thumb turns provide a quick and easy escape route for a burglar.
This encourages them to find a way in, not necessaraly via the door.
It also makes getting the loot out easier than passing 42" TVs through
windows.

[The Medway Handyman]

You can get thumb turns which have a push and click piston to add extra
security.

--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk

[Tim Watts]

It's simple to me - fire escape trumps burglary.

[ss]

Check your house insurance many have small print that the key must be
more than 3 feet from a window at night, having a device that can open
the door may invalidate your insurance.

[Roland Perry]

In message <sA0Ot.8329$u%5.4...@fx03.am4>, at 08:58:14 on Mon, 12 Aug
2013, ss <wee...@hotmail.com> remarked:

>Check your house insurance many have small print that the key must be
>more than 3 feet from a window at night

Would that be 3ft from a window that opens? Or does a fixed pane of
glass qualify. If it's openable windows, would that sort of insurance
also require that window locks were fitted *and active* ?

If the objective is to stop a burglar exiting with booty, then it's no
good if the key is 3ft 1 inch away and findable from the inside.
--
Roland Perry

[Muddymike]

On Monday 12 August 2013 07:53 dennis@home wrote in uk.d-i-y:
>
>> On 11/08/2013 23:04, Tim Watts wrote:
>>> On Sunday 11 August 2013 22:56 newshound wrote in uk.d-i-y:
>>>
>>>> On 11/08/2013 22:44, R D S wrote:
>>>>> I'd prefer thumbscrews on the inside of my patio doors. Mainly because
>>>>> you can't use a key on the outside if there is still a key on the
>>>>> inside.
>>>>>

>>> I have opted for thumbscrews on a new rear door and again in the
>>> conservatory to which that door leads.
>>>
>>> Reasoning:
>>>
>>> 1) We can escape in a fire (esp kids whose bedromms are next to that
>>> door);
>>>
>>> 2) OK - someone might reach in a window with a tool and operate the
>>> conservatory thumbscrew - but will will have nothing of much value
>>> there;
>>>
>>> 3) There are no windows within reach of the rear door. To operate the
>>> thumbscrew would require breaking a full door size DG glass unit. In
>>> which case, they could walk through the hole!
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Its not that simple..
>>
>> thumb turns provide a quick and easy escape route for a burglar.
>> This encourages them to find a way in, not necessaraly via the door.
>> It also makes getting the loot out easier than passing 42" TVs through
>> windows.
>
>It's simple to me - fire escape trumps burglary.
>

+1.

Mike

[ss]

I believe its to do with smashing a window and reaching in for the
keys to gain access.

[The Medway Handyman]

On 11/08/2013 23:04, Tim Watts wrote:

> On Sunday 11 August 2013 22:56 newshound wrote in uk.d-i-y:
>
>> On 11/08/2013 22:44, R D S wrote:
>>> I'd prefer thumbscrews on the inside of my patio doors. Mainly because
>>> you can't use a key on the outside if there is still a key on the inside.
>>>
>>> Is it possible to fit thumbscrews to the existing, or do I need to
>>> replace the barrel?
>>>
>> I assume you are talking about standard eurolocks, in which case I think
>> you will need to replace the barrel (not expensive or difficult).
>>
>> The police will say *never* have thumbscrews, the fire brigade say
>> *always* have them.
>
> I have opted for thumbscrews on a new rear door and again in the
> conservatory to which that door leads.
>
> Reasoning:
>
> 1) We can escape in a fire (esp kids whose bedromms are next to that door);
>
> 2) OK - someone might reach in a window with a tool and operate the
> conservatory thumbscrew - but will will have nothing of much value there;
>
> 3) There are no windows within reach of the rear door. To operate the
> thumbscrew would require breaking a full door size DG glass unit. In which
> case, they could walk through the hole!
>
>

I find it quite amazing, that when I knock on a customers door, how many
of them start ferreting about for keys, sometimes a couple of minutes.

People have no idea just how fast a room can become full of smoke.

[SteveW]

I've got a wife and three young children. The key stays in the lock at
night, so we can get out in case of a fire - I've been in a house fire
once and I'm not taking chances.

Anyway if it's to do with smashing a window to get the keys to gain
entry, why should it matter? You must be in if the keys are there!

SteveW

[The Other Mike]

On Mon, 12 Aug 2013 08:58:14 +0100, ss <wee...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Check your house insurance many have small print that the key must be
>more than 3 feet from a window at night, having a device that can open
>the door may invalidate your insurance.

Presumably the thieves never have access to a fishing rod / grabber longer than
three feet long?

--

[Roland Perry]

In message <IumOt.187333$zk4....@fx18.am4>, at 08:54:00 on Tue, 13 Aug
2013, Jethro_uk <jeth...@hotmailbin.com> remarked:
>I never felt comfortable leaving the key in the lock. You need to be
>careful to ensure you don't engage it slightly which prevents anyone from
>opening the door from the outside. I always worried in case my wife had a
>fall when I was out, and a keyholder couldn't get in.

Is the inability to have keys fully inserted on both sides a bug or a
feature?

>I'm curious as to how the entire population appears to have been happy to
>completely change the way front doors lock without a murmur.

Not everyone is quite so happy. I would be extremely unhappy to buy a
house that didn't have a "Yale" type lock on the front door. The
"plastic conservatory" type doors which seem to go with Euro-cyclinder
locks are much more prone to going wrong, as well as looking hideous.

> ISTM we have lost an essential part of the way Yale locks worked,
>which was to allow a front door to be closed *and* locked without
>needing a key.

The only advantage is that it's virtually impossible to lock yourself
out. On the other hand, if you have visitors/guests staying with you,
they can't leave and lock the door behind them unless issued with a key.
--
Roland Perry

[The Medway Handyman]

On 13/08/2013 10:03, Roland Perry wrote:
.
>
>> ISTM we have lost an essential part of the way Yale locks worked,
>> which was to allow a front door to be closed *and* locked without
>> needing a key.
>
> The only advantage is that it's virtually impossible to lock yourself
> out. On the other hand, if you have visitors/guests staying with you,
> they can't leave and lock the door behind them unless issued with a key.

Many uPVC doors with Euro cylinder locks can & do lock you out.

[dennis@home]

On 13/08/2013 09:54, Jethro_uk wrote:

> On Mon, 12 Aug 2013 22:48:27 +0100, SteveW wrote:
>
>> On 12/08/2013 13:21, ss wrote:
>>> On 12/08/2013 09:22, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <sA0Ot.8329$u%5.4...@fx03.am4>, at 08:58:14 on Mon, 12 Aug
>>>> 2013, ss <wee...@hotmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Check your house insurance many have small print that the key must be
>>>>> more than 3 feet from a window at night
>>>>
>>>> Would that be 3ft from a window that opens? Or does a fixed pane of
>>>> glass qualify. If it's openable windows, would that sort of insurance
>>>> also require that window locks were fitted *and active* ?
>>>>
>>>> If the objective is to stop a burglar exiting with booty, then it's no
>>>> good if the key is 3ft 1 inch away and findable from the inside.
>>>
>>> I believe its to do with smashing a window and reaching in for the
>>> keys to gain access.
>>
>> I've got a wife and three young children. The key stays in the lock at
>> night, so we can get out in case of a fire - I've been in a house fire
>> once and I'm not taking chances.
>

> I never felt comfortable leaving the key in the lock. You need to be
> careful to ensure you don't engage it slightly which prevents anyone from
> opening the door from the outside. I always worried in case my wife had a
> fall when I was out, and a keyholder couldn't get in.
>

> I'm curious as to how the entire population appears to have been happy to

> completely change the way front doors lock without a murmur. ISTM we have

> lost an essential part of the way Yale locks worked, which was to allow a
> front door to be closed *and* locked without needing a key.

Latched *not* locked.
They aren't even called locks.


You were supposed to have a lock as well as a latch but many didn't.

There were better latches that could be locked using a key on the inside
but they aren't as good as a mortice lock can be.

Just make sure you have plenty of ways to get out in a fire, the front
door isn't likely to be one of them if the fire starts downstairs unless
the detectors pick it up early.

[Roland Perry]

In message <520a1891$0$61510$c3e8da3$f017...@news.astraweb.com>, at
12:29:21 on Tue, 13 Aug 2013, "dennis@home"
<den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> remarked:

>Just make sure you have plenty of ways to get out in a fire, the front
>door isn't likely to be one of them if the fire starts downstairs
>unless the detectors pick it up early.

The OP was asking about locks for his patio doors, which are generally
at the back.
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <hvoOt.15801$ac5....@fx32.am4>, at 12:11:16 on Tue, 13 Aug
2013, The Medway Handyman <davi...@blueyonder.co.uk> remarked:

>> The only advantage [of uPVC/EURO] is that it's virtually impossible

>> to lock yourself out. On the other hand, if you have visitors/guests
>> staying with you, they can't leave and lock the door behind them
>> unless issued with a key.
>
>Many uPVC doors with Euro cylinder locks can & do lock you out.

How does that work? Would you need to open the door (and leave it ajar),
then lock the handles, then have it slam shut against a sprung latch?
--
Roland Perry

[The Other Mike]

On Tue, 13 Aug 2013 08:54:00 GMT, Jethro_uk <jeth...@hotmailbin.com> wrote:


>I'm curious as to how the entire population appears to have been happy to
>completely change the way front doors lock without a murmur. ISTM we have
>lost an essential part of the way Yale locks worked, which was to allow a
>front door to be closed *and* locked without needing a key.

Because a lock like that is by design totally shit and guaranteed to lock you
out of the house at some stage, leading to keys being hidden under flower pots
and door mats 'just in case'


--

[Tim Watts]

On Tuesday 13 August 2013 09:54 Jethro_uk wrote in uk.d-i-y:


> I'm curious as to how the entire population appears to have been happy to
> completely change the way front doors lock without a murmur. ISTM we have
> lost an essential part of the way Yale locks worked, which was to allow a
> front door to be closed *and* locked without needing a key.

It's true that's the way it used to be - and to me it always sucked.

I don't want a gust of wind making me locked out - I much prefer to
positively lock a door.

[Muddymike]

On 13/08/2013 10:03, Roland Perry wrote:
>.
>>
>>> ISTM we have lost an essential part of the way Yale locks worked,
>>> which was to allow a front door to be closed *and* locked without
>>> needing a key.
>>
>> The only advantage is that it's virtually impossible to lock yourself
>> out. On the other hand, if you have visitors/guests staying with you,
>> they can't leave and lock the door behind them unless issued with a key.
>
>Many uPVC doors with Euro cylinder locks can & do lock you out.
>

I came across this with a cottage we rented in Scotland last year. The
outside handle could not be turned without the key so if you closed the door
behind you you were locked out if you didn't have the key. The owners had
put a warning message to that effect inside the door. Seemed like a stupid
set up to me as there was no option to keep the door closed without it being
locked from the outside.

Mike

[John Williamson]

Jethro_uk wrote:

> I'm curious as to how the entire population appears to have been happy to

> completely change the way front doors lock without a murmur. ISTM we have

> lost an essential part of the way Yale locks worked, which was to allow a
> front door to be closed *and* locked without needing a key.
>

We've also lost the ability to gain entry to the house using a simple
piece of reasonably flexible plastic, which was another facility offered
by those locks.

Locks were available which could be closed and securely locked without a
key, but they were few and far between.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[dochol...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, August 13, 2013 2:01:20 PM UTC+1, John Williamson wrote:
<snip>

> We've also lost the ability to gain entry to the house using a simple
> piece of reasonably flexible plastic, which was another facility offered
> by those locks.

I never found that trick worked for me - any plastic thin enough to go into the gap between door and frame couldn't even be forced round the corner towards the latch, let alone be pushed far enough to undo the latch. I just had to resort to using the key...

>
> Locks were available which could be closed and securely locked without a
> key, but they were few and far between.
>

Obviously your experience differs from mine - almost everyone I knew back in the days before UPVC front doors had some form of deadlocking rim latch (as I do now); those few who didn't usually had a separate mortice deadlock.

[Adam Funk]

On 2013-08-11, newshound wrote:

> On 11/08/2013 22:44, R D S wrote:
>> I'd prefer thumbscrews on the inside of my patio doors. Mainly because
>> you can't use a key on the outside if there is still a key on the inside.
>>
>> Is it possible to fit thumbscrews to the existing, or do I need to
>> replace the barrel?
>>
> I assume you are talking about standard eurolocks, in which case I think
> you will need to replace the barrel (not expensive or difficult).
>
> The police will say *never* have thumbscrews, the fire brigade say
> *always* have them.

In some places outside the UK, it's illegal to have locks on rented
accommodation that can't be opened from the inside without a key (for
fire safety).