Re: bread machine scrap - any dough mixers out there?

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Clive George

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Feb 16, 2009, 9:33:51 PM2/16/09
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"dave" <da...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:q47kp4df2tjb10jc5...@4ax.com...
>I bought a bread making machine (new) several months ago and basically
> - it's junk! After 4 months regular use the baking part of it packed
> up. Turned out to be the thermal fuse had gone. I replaced that -
> nearest I could get was 5deg higher - that lasted two weeks and that
> blew too. Ok, so I decided just to use the dough mixing "feature" and
> that turned out to be rather good because the bread baked in the gas
> oven was far better in texture.
>
> Unfortunately the mixing part packed up a month later! Mechanical
> failure I can't fix: basically the circlips snapped on the drive
> shaft. I replaced them but they kept snapping and now the actual
> "winder" part of the mixer had snapped (heh heh great fun eh). This
> machine was what I thought was a reputable make (Smuffy Pilchards or
> something). I just couldn't be bothered with the usual joke warrantee.

Failure after 6 months, I'd have bothered. You'd have got a new one without
much fuss.

> Anyway, the penny finally dropped that what I would really like is a
> decent dough mixer - not a bread making machine at all. Took a look on
> good 'ol ebay and the mixers are hundreds of pounds! So I suppose they
> are for real bakeries. So finally - my question is, does anyone know
> if there is a reasonably priced (~£100) dough mixer available that
> will actual last a few years?

People I know swear by their Panasonic bread makers. Apparently they don't
break in the way yours did.


meow...@care2.com

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Feb 17, 2009, 12:50:12 AM2/17/09
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dave wrote:
> I bought a bread making machine (new) several months ago and basically
> - it's junk! After 4 months regular use the baking part of it packed
> up. Turned out to be the thermal fuse had gone. I replaced that -
> nearest I could get was 5deg higher - that lasted two weeks and that
> blew too. Ok, so I decided just to use the dough mixing "feature" and
> that turned out to be rather good because the bread baked in the gas
> oven was far better in texture.
>
> Unfortunately the mixing part packed up a month later! Mechanical
> failure I can't fix: basically the circlips snapped on the drive
> shaft. I replaced them but they kept snapping and now the actual
> "winder" part of the mixer had snapped (heh heh great fun eh). This
> machine was what I thought was a reputable make (Smuffy Pilchards or
> something). I just couldn't be bothered with the usual joke warrantee.
>
> Anyway, the penny finally dropped that what I would really like is a
> decent dough mixer - not a bread making machine at all. Took a look on
> good 'ol ebay and the mixers are hundreds of pounds! So I suppose they
> are for real bakeries. So finally - my question is, does anyone know
> if there is a reasonably priced (~�100) dough mixer available that
> will actual last a few years?
> thanks
> Bread roll anyone?

Any food processor can mix dough. Of the old mixer types, the Kenwood
chef seems to be one of the most popular and well respected, and I
know they last well.


NT

Mike Barnes

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Feb 17, 2009, 2:31:13 AM2/17/09
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In uk.d-i-y, dave wrote:
>my question is, does anyone know
>if there is a reasonably priced (~£100) dough mixer available that
>will actual last a few years?

I recommend a Kenwood food mixer with a dough hook. We've used ours
every couple of weeks for the last fifteen years, the usual batch size
being 2.75 Kg, and it's still in great condition, being positively
youthful by Kenwood standards. They cost a bit more than £100, depending
somewhat on the size, but there are plenty available on eBay, and they
last for decades.

--
Mike Barnes

TheOldFellow

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Feb 17, 2009, 2:22:55 AM2/17/09
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On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 02:22:53 +0000
dave <da...@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> I bought a bread making machine<snip>


> Anyway, the penny finally dropped that what I would really like is a
> decent dough mixer - not a bread making machine at all. Took a look on
> good 'ol ebay and the mixers are hundreds of pounds! So I suppose they

> are for real bakeries. So finally - my question is, does anyone know


> if there is a reasonably priced (~£100) dough mixer available that
> will actual last a few years?

> thanks
> Bread roll anyone?

Dave,

I've been making my own bread for years. I never used a break maker,
nor even a bread mixer. The DIY way is better. It only takes about
ten minutes of good, hard, upper-body-strength-tuning, effort to kneed
the dough for two 2lb tins (about 1K flour with 600Ml water). It's not
worth heating the oven for less than two loaves.

Tradition, not Technology, is the answer here. I hear even the Kenwood
(£250) strips gears eventually - and beware: they come in plastic and
metal gear versions - both fail, it's just the time it takes and then
expense of replacement that differs.

Mind you if someone comes up with a way of using an angle grinder to do
it.... (without a plate heat exchanger please!)

R.

John

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Feb 17, 2009, 3:10:14 AM2/17/09
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"Mike Barnes" <mikeb...@bluebottle.com> wrote in message
news:lveP5iXB...@g52lk5g23lkgk3lk345g.invalid...

We went through 2 before settling on a Panasonic. It seemed to me that the
window in the lid of most were a cause of problems with the bread due to
condensation.


Andy Burns

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Feb 17, 2009, 3:24:21 AM2/17/09
to
Clive George wrote:

> People I know swear by their Panasonic bread makers. Apparently they don't
> break in the way yours did.

Parents have one, they use it most days, so far going strong after 3 or
4 years.

Andrew Gabriel

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Feb 17, 2009, 3:51:04 AM2/17/09
to
In article <zLmdneyLIbmovwfU...@posted.plusnet>,

"Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>
> People I know swear by their Panasonic bread makers. Apparently they don't
> break in the way yours did.

My Panasonic is 11 years old, and probably averages 1.5 loafs
per week, plus I sometimes use it just to kneed dough.
Still works as new, somewhat to my surprise.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Rod

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Feb 17, 2009, 3:52:24 AM2/17/09
to
dave wrote:
> I bought a bread making machine (new) several months ago and basically
> - it's junk! After 4 months regular use the baking part of it packed
> up. Turned out to be the thermal fuse had gone. I replaced that -
> nearest I could get was 5deg higher - that lasted two weeks and that
> blew too. Ok, so I decided just to use the dough mixing "feature" and
> that turned out to be rather good because the bread baked in the gas
> oven was far better in texture.
>
> Unfortunately the mixing part packed up a month later! Mechanical
> failure I can't fix: basically the circlips snapped on the drive
> shaft. I replaced them but they kept snapping and now the actual
> "winder" part of the mixer had snapped (heh heh great fun eh). This
> machine was what I thought was a reputable make (Smuffy Pilchards or
> something). I just couldn't be bothered with the usual joke warrantee.
>
> Anyway, the penny finally dropped that what I would really like is a
> decent dough mixer - not a bread making machine at all. Took a look on
> good 'ol ebay and the mixers are hundreds of pounds! So I suppose they
> are for real bakeries. So finally - my question is, does anyone know

> if there is a reasonably priced (~£100) dough mixer available that
> will actual last a few years?
> thanks
> Bread roll anyone?

Several years ago we got a Panasonic SD253 (IIRC). Worked fine but the
paddle became a bit loose and needed replacement.

Gluten/wheat issues have plagued us since so it is no longer in service.
But if I were to go back to making bread I would prefer to use a
different technique. Slow, cold rise (e.g. in a plastic bag in the
fridge) rather than the 'hot house' technique of the breadmaker.
(Actually, I would like to re-program the SD253 to not heat during
mixing, to have much longer rests and just to experiment. Never saw
anyone who had done so.)

Some people have ended up using various techniques that do not require
kneading and I would certainly like to try those before committing to
purchase of any sort of mixer. Have a search around - there are many
discussions of these ideas.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
<www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>

dennis@home

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Feb 17, 2009, 4:01:44 AM2/17/09
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<meow...@care2.com> wrote in message
news:7ab7f17d-7f6a-48dc...@v38g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...


> Any food processor can mix dough. Of the old mixer types, the Kenwood
> chef seems to be one of the most popular and well respected, and I
> know they last well.

The don't do the same job..
When you use a bread maker to make dough it mixes it, heats it to raise the
dough, kneads it, raises it, thumps it, raises it and then it is ready to
bake.
I have been using a morphy richards machine for five years now, I have worn
out the bread pan twice (the nylon bearing seals eventually fail).

Ian White

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Feb 17, 2009, 4:10:50 AM2/17/09
to
Clive George wrote:
>> This
>> machine was what I thought was a reputable make (Smuffy Pilchards or
>> something). I just couldn't be bothered with the usual joke warrantee.
>
>Failure after 6 months, I'd have bothered. You'd have got a new one
>without much fuss.

Yes, you should have. Can't say much for the Morphy Richards bread
machine, as the mechanical design isn't up to the job; but the warranty
service has been excellent. Over the two years we've been sent a
replacement bread pan and a replacement mixing paddle, and when the main
bearing seized they sent a whole new machine (including yet another pan
and paddle) so we're well off for spares... all simply for the asking.


--
Ian White

meow...@care2.com

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Feb 17, 2009, 4:14:22 AM2/17/09
to
Rod wrote:
> dave wrote:

> > I bought a bread making machine (new) several months ago and basically

> Several years ago we got a Panasonic SD253 (IIRC). Worked fine but the


> paddle became a bit loose and needed replacement.
>
> Gluten/wheat issues have plagued us since so it is no longer in service.

I would have thought that was one of the few reasons to get a
breadmaker, to make gluten free stuff frequently. On the ones I looked
at though they had only one no-yeast-raise program, so only some bread
types are possible.


> But if I were to go back to making bread I would prefer to use a
> different technique. Slow, cold rise (e.g. in a plastic bag in the
> fridge) rather than the 'hot house' technique of the breadmaker.
> (Actually, I would like to re-program the SD253 to not heat during
> mixing, to have much longer rests and just to experiment. Never saw
> anyone who had done so.)

Are they (re)programmable?


NT

Arfa Daily

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Feb 17, 2009, 4:16:27 AM2/17/09
to

>
> Gluten/wheat issues have plagued us since so it is no longer in service.

Completely off the original issue, but interesting maybe. We have a number
of people who are gluten intolerant, and come into our cafe, so we are aware
of the gluten-free diet issue. We are just taking over a new cafe, and were
discussing the menu with the current owner. We got around to the gluten-free
offerings, one of which included cheese. My wife asked her if she grated her
own, and she said no, she bought it ready-grated. Then it's not gluten-free,
my wife informed her. How so? she asked. Because they coat it in flour to
stop the individual shavings sticking together in the bag it's sold in ...

Several sources have told us this. I wonder how many cafes are aware of it ?

Arfa


Andrew Gabriel

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Feb 17, 2009, 4:39:46 AM2/17/09
to
In article <Nfvml.8988$Nu5....@newsfe28.ams2>,

Is it listed on the ingredients?

Rod

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 4:54:24 AM2/17/09
to

There are many things that do not get onto lists of ingredients - e.g.
release agents used on baking sheets.

We have found it very difficult as partner isn't even sure - blood tests
have not indicated positive for coeliac disease - but there are *very*
strong associations with thyroid disease.

You might wish to be aware of (relatively) new rules for gluten-free in
the UK. (Of course, you sound as if you/your wife probably already know!)

====

New rules for 'gluten free' foods

Thursday 22 January 2009

New food labelling and composition rules aimed at helping people who are
intolerant to gluten have been published.

Under the new European Union regulations, only foods that contain less
than 20 parts of gluten in a million will be allowed to use the term
'gluten-free' on their packaging. Recent evidence has shown that this
extremely low level offers better protection for people with an
intolerance to gluten. Previously, a food labelled ‘gluten free’ could
have contained up to ten times more than this.

In addition, some foods made using cereals that have been specially
processed to remove most of the gluten, but which contain less than 100
parts of gluten in a million, will be able to make the claim 'very low
gluten' on the packaging. These include substitutes of certain staple
foods such as bread.

The introduction of just two types of labelling will reduce consumer
confusion in this area and help people with coeliac disease to make safe
and informed choices about the types of food they eat.

Sue Hattersley, head of food allergy policy at the Food Standards
Agency, said:

'Around one per cent of people in the UK are intolerant to gluten, and
packaging claims about gluten in foods are very important to these
people. The number of products marketed to them is increasing rapidly.
Without rules controlling the levels of gluten in them, the amounts of
gluten could vary greatly, which could cause serious health problems.

'The new lower limit of 20 parts in a million means greater peace of
mind for people with a gluten intolerance, as they can be sure that
foods sold as 'gluten free' do not contain levels that could be harmful
to them.'

Manufacturers can use the new labelling system immediately, but in order
to give them time to adapt to the new rules by reformulating products or
changing existing packaging, products do not have to comply with the new
rules until 1 January 2012.

<http://www.food.gov.uk/news/newsarchive/2009/jan/newrulesforglutenfree>

Man at B&Q

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Feb 17, 2009, 5:08:11 AM2/17/09
to
On Feb 17, 9:01 am, "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net>
wrote:
> <meow2...@care2.com> wrote in message

>
> news:7ab7f17d-7f6a-48dc...@v38g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Any food processor can mix dough. Of the old mixer types, the Kenwood
> > chef seems to be one of the most popular and well respected, and I
> > know they last well.
>
> The don't do the same job..

They do, when the OP is asking for something to only *mix* the dough.

Try reading the thread your replying to.

MBQ

Man at B&Q

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Feb 17, 2009, 5:09:02 AM2/17/09
to
On Feb 17, 8:10 am, "John" <Who90nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> "Mike Barnes" <mikebar...@bluebottle.com> wrote in message

>
> news:lveP5iXB...@g52lk5g23lkgk3lk345g.invalid...
>
> > In uk.d-i-y, dave wrote:
> >>my question is, does anyone know
> >>if there is a reasonably priced (~£100) dough mixer available that
> >>will actual last a few years?
>
> > I recommend a Kenwood food mixer with a dough hook. We've used ours
> > every couple of weeks for the last fifteen years, the usual batch size
> > being 2.75 Kg, and it's still in great condition, being positively
> > youthful by Kenwood standards. They cost a bit more than £100, depending
> > somewhat on the size, but there are plenty available on eBay, and they
> > last for decades.

> We went through 2 before settling on a Panasonic. It seemed to me that the


> window in the lid of most were a cause of problems with the bread due to
> condensation.

That's not a feature of Kenwood Chefs.

MBQ


dennis@home

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Feb 17, 2009, 8:07:39 AM2/17/09
to

"Man at B&Q" <manat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1c515971-a23c-46c4...@h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...

Try reading the thread you are replying to.
I seriously doubt if the OP wants a food mixer.
He wants a dough maker!

Owain

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Feb 17, 2009, 8:22:15 AM2/17/09
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Arfa Daily wrote:
> ... We got around to the gluten-free
> offerings, one of which included cheese. My wife asked her if she grated her
> own, and she said no, she bought it ready-grated. Then it's not gluten-free,
> my wife informed her. How so? she asked. Because they coat it in flour to
> stop the individual shavings sticking together in the bag it's sold in ...

Just checked - Tesco Value Grated Cheddar uses potato starch as the
anti-caking agent.

Owain


mogga

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Feb 17, 2009, 8:30:43 AM2/17/09
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You can get dough hooks for mixers.
--
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk
http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk

John Rumm

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Feb 17, 2009, 9:08:34 AM2/17/09
to

The Chef comes with them as standard... It also has the power to do a
decent job of it unlike many mixers.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

S Viemeister

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Feb 17, 2009, 9:13:15 AM2/17/09
to
John Rumm wrote:
>
> The Chef comes with them as standard... It also has the power to do a
> decent job of it unlike many mixers.
>
And the Kenwood can be used for a number of other tasks, while the bread
machine is a single-purpose space-eater.

dennis@home

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Feb 17, 2009, 9:14:02 AM2/17/09
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"mogga" <d...@NOSPAMPLEASEmogga.com> wrote in message
news:qvelp45fei79tdrpl...@4ax.com...

I know, I have some.
They don't do the same job as dough maker, they just knead it for you.
Its not really worth it you can knead it yourself in a few minutes and it
takes that long to clean the mixer afterwards.
A dough maker lets you go away and do something else and come back after an
hour or two and make the bread shapes.
All the bread machines I have seen also make dough (well they would have
to).
The one they had in lidl last month made several different kinds of dough.
I don't know what the programs do for the different kinds but it did gluten
free dough.
Only £25.

Message has been deleted

Tim Downie

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Feb 17, 2009, 9:19:18 AM2/17/09
to

Nearly all food processors can be used to make dough, even without a hook.
Hence they qualify as a dough mixer. It is what the OP asked for. (See
below)

dave wrote:

> Anyway, the penny finally dropped that what I would really like is a
> decent dough mixer - not a bread making machine at all.


Tim


Bob Mannix

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Feb 17, 2009, 9:24:50 AM2/17/09
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"dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
news:gnegnd$3v7$1...@news.datemas.de...

Yes but the subject line asks for a dough mixer not a dough maker as that's
what he wanted (as, it turns out, he can't do the kneading). Hence a solid
mixer with a dough hook might be just what he wants (especially if it does
other stuff as well). You have to answer the question asked not the one you
think it ought to be :o).


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)


dennis@home

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Feb 17, 2009, 9:29:11 AM2/17/09
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"S Viemeister" <firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote in message
news:6vvuvtF...@mid.individual.net...

My bread maker does bread, cakes, jam and probably some stuff I have
forgotten about.

dennis@home

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Feb 17, 2009, 9:35:04 AM2/17/09
to

"Bob Mannix" <b1o...@mannix.org.uk> wrote in message
news:gnehbk$rrd$1...@south.jnrs.ja.net...

> Yes but the subject line asks for a dough mixer not a dough maker as
> that's what he wanted (as, it turns out, he can't do the kneading). Hence
> a solid mixer with a dough hook might be just what he wants (especially if
> it does other stuff as well). You have to answer the question asked not
> the one you think it ought to be :o).

No I don't, I can offer the best advice I have, the OP can ignore it if he
wants.
This isn't B&Q where they will sell you the wrong thing in the hope you come
and buy the right thing later.

Anyway the OP asked for something to replace a bread maker to make dough, a
mixer only does a bit of the job.

Bob Mannix

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Feb 17, 2009, 9:42:34 AM2/17/09
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"dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
news:gnehur$7d4$1...@news.datemas.de...

As you clearly can't be bothered to read the original post here's the
relevant bit again:

"Anyway, the penny finally dropped that what I would really like is a
decent dough mixer - not a bread making machine at all."

You could give your best advice on flower arranging but it wouldn't be
relevant.

dennis@home

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Feb 17, 2009, 9:44:30 AM2/17/09
to

"Tim Downie" <timdow...@obvious.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6vvvasF...@mid.individual.net...


> Try reading the thread you are replying to.
>
> Nearly all food processors can be used to make dough, even without a hook.
> Hence they qualify as a dough mixer. It is what the OP asked for. (See
> below)
>
> dave wrote:
>
>> Anyway, the penny finally dropped that what I would really like is a
>> decent dough mixer - not a bread making machine at all.

Well a food processor with dough hooks is not going to make his dough
without lots of fiddling about.
Making bread dough is a multi stage affair which he will have to do himself
if uses a mixer/processor.
He will have to chuck in his mix and mix it, then knead it, then take it out
and put it into a warm place to ferment, then he will have knead it, then
put it back into the warm, then knock it out, then put it in the warm, then
shape it, then put it in the warm, then cook it.
I doubt he wants to do that.
You may think he is asking for a mixer. I think he is asking for a dough
maker that gets him to the shape it stage.
Any more and it would be a bread maker.

dennis@home

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Feb 17, 2009, 9:52:37 AM2/17/09
to

"Bob Mannix" <b1o...@mannix.org.uk> wrote in message

news:gneicr$s0u$1...@south.jnrs.ja.net...


> As you clearly can't be bothered to read the original post here's the
> relevant bit again:

I read it and clearly you are being a pedant.
Just because I choose to interpret what the OP actually said doesn't mean I
am wrong to offer advice that you don't agree with.

>
> "Anyway, the penny finally dropped that what I would really like is a
> decent dough mixer - not a bread making machine at all."

So if he wants a food mixer why didn't he ask about one?
He specifically wants a dough "mixer" to replace his bread machine which he
was using to "mix" his dough.
Except of course a bread machine doesn't just mix the dough it makes it up
to the final rise.

>
> You could give your best advice on flower arranging but it wouldn't be
> relevant.

Why would flower arranging be any use when making dough or do you think that
is what he should do while waiting for the dough *maker* to finish?

Tim Downie

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Feb 17, 2009, 10:06:07 AM2/17/09
to
dennis@home wrote:
> "Tim Downie" <timdow...@obvious.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:6vvvasF...@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>> Try reading the thread you are replying to.
>>
>> Nearly all food processors can be used to make dough, even without a
>> hook. Hence they qualify as a dough mixer. It is what the OP asked
>> for. (See below)
>>
>> dave wrote:
>>
>>> Anyway, the penny finally dropped that what I would really like is a
>>> decent dough mixer - not a bread making machine at all.
>
> Well a food processor with dough hooks is not going to make his dough
> without lots of fiddling about.

Have you tried it? I've done it many times. Perhaps not as good as hand
kneaded but perfectly passible. Not that fiddly at all.

Tim

Bruce

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Feb 17, 2009, 10:16:41 AM2/17/09
to
dave <da...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>So finally - my question is, does anyone know

>if there is a reasonably priced (~£100) dough mixer available that
>will actual last a few years?


The Panasonic breadmakers are extremely reliable.

You could just use one to make dough, or to bake the bread as well.

Man at B&Q

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Feb 17, 2009, 10:17:23 AM2/17/09
to
On Feb 17, 1:07 pm, "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net>
wrote:
> "Man at B&Q" <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1c515971-a23c-46c4...@h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...

Which bit of "what I would really like is a decent dough mixer" are
you having difficulty with? Note he said *dough mixer* not *dough
maker*

MBQ

chris French

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Feb 17, 2009, 10:07:20 AM2/17/09
to
In message <iN6dnUSse9RxJgfU...@posted.plusnet>, Owain
<owain...@stirlingcity.coo.uk> writes
As does the packet of grated cheddar from my local 'One
Stop Shop'.


Man at B&Q

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Feb 17, 2009, 10:21:44 AM2/17/09
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On Feb 17, 2:14 pm, "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net>
wrote:

> "mogga" <d...@NOSPAMPLEASEmogga.com> wrote in message
>
> news:qvelp45fei79tdrpl...@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:07:39 -0000, "dennis@home"
> > <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote:
>
> >>"Man at B&Q" <manatba...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

> >>news:1c515971-a23c-46c4...@h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> >>> On Feb 17, 9:01 am, "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> <meow2...@care2.com> wrote in message
>
> >>>>news:7ab7f17d-7f6a-48dc...@v38g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>>> > Any food processor can mix dough. Of the old mixer types, the Kenwood
> >>>> > chef seems to be one of the most popular and well respected, and I
> >>>> > know they last well.
>
> >>>> The don't do the same job..
>
> >>> They do, when the OP is asking for something to only *mix* the dough.
>
> >>> Try reading the thread your replying to.
>
> >>Try reading the thread you are replying to.
> >>I seriously doubt if the OP wants a food mixer.
> >>He wants a dough maker!
> > You can get dough hooks for mixers.
>
> I know, I have some.
> They don't do the same job as dough maker,

No one is asking them to nor stating that they do.

> they just knead it for you.

Bingo!

> Its not really worth it you can knead it yourself in a few minutes and it
> takes that long to clean the mixer afterwards.

And you bread maker magically cleans itself, does it?

> A dough maker lets you go away and do something else and come back after an
> hour or two and make the bread shapes.

You can still do otther things whether waiting fot he dough to rise in
abread maker or in the airing cupboard.

MBQ

John Rumm

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 10:23:57 AM2/17/09
to
dennis@home wrote:

> Except of course a bread machine doesn't just mix the dough it makes it
> up to the final rise.

The better bread machines will do as much or little as you want of the
process. They can mix only if that is all that is required.

S Viemeister

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 11:51:52 AM2/17/09
to
dennis@home wrote:

> Well a food processor with dough hooks is not going to make his dough
> without lots of fiddling about.

Really?


> Making bread dough is a multi stage affair which he will have to do
> himself if uses a mixer/processor.
> He will have to chuck in his mix and mix it, then knead it, then take it
> out and put it into a warm place to ferment, then he will have knead it,
> then put it back into the warm, then knock it out, then put it in the
> warm, then shape it, then put it in the warm, then cook it.

I've been making bread 2 or 3 times a week for more than 30 years. I
find that my Kenwood mixer does an excellent job, with no fussing. I
dump in all the ingredients (_not_ a mix), and turn the machine on. In
little more than 5 minutes, the dough has been mixed and kneaded. My
mixer has one of those plastic splash guards - I leave it in place while
the dough rises. When it's risen, I turn the mixer on for a second, to
knock down the dough, remove it from the bowl, shape it, and put it in a
pan to rise. I don't find the need to put the rising dough in a warm
place to rise, as a longer, slower, rise gives a better flavour, IMNSHO.

Doesn't seem particularly fiddly to me.....

TheOldFellow

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 11:23:18 AM2/17/09
to
On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 14:12:20 +0000
dave <da...@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 07:22:55 +0000, TheOldFellow
> <theold...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >Dave,
> >
> >I've been making my own bread for years. I never used a break maker,
> >nor even a bread mixer. The DIY way is better. It only takes about
> >ten minutes of good, hard, upper-body-strength-tuning, effort to kneed
> >the dough for two 2lb tins (about 1K flour with 600Ml water).
>
> I hear what you say - but try telling that to someone with arthritis.
> I know I didn't mention that in OP but can't say everything - I tried
> to keep to what I was asking about (as per Man and B&Q pointed out).

Sorry to hear about the arthritis, I had septic arthritis once and I can
still remember the pain. The rest of your logic is good then. I hope
you can sift some help from the rest of the thread and find a good
bread mixer.

Blessings,
R.

The Natural Philosopher

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 12:09:10 PM2/17/09
to
Man at B&Q wrote:
> On Feb 17, 2:14 pm, "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net>

>

> No one is asking them to nor stating that they do.
>
>> they just knead it for you.
>
> Bingo!
>
>> Its not really worth it you can knead it yourself in a few minutes and it
>> takes that long to clean the mixer afterwards.
>
> And you bread maker magically cleans itself, does it?
>

and hand kneaded dough unless you are bloody tough and fit, isn't a
patch on machine torn dough ;-)

Mike Barnes

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 12:27:05 PM2/17/09
to
In uk.d-i-y, dennis@home wrote:
>Well a food processor with dough hooks is not going to make his dough
>without lots of fiddling about.
>Making bread dough is a multi stage affair which he will have to do
>himself if uses a mixer/processor.
>He will have to chuck in his mix

true

>and mix it,

the machine does that

>then knead it,

the machine does that, too

>then take it out

why?

>and put it into a warm place to ferment

oh, I see
actually you don't need to put it in a warm place
and even if you did you wouldn't need to take it out of the mixer

>, then he will have knead it,

the machine does that

>then put it back into the warm,

see above

>then knock it out,

yes

>then put it in the warm,

see above

>then shape it,

yes

>then put it in the warm,

see above

>then cook it.

yes

>I doubt he wants to do that.

If you cut out the unnecessary steps it's hardly any trouble. And I get
three loaves and a pile of rolls out of one Kenwood mix.

--
Mike Barnes

Rod

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 1:07:41 PM2/17/09
to
meow...@care2.com wrote:
<>
>
> Are they (re)programmable?
>
>
> NT

Not that I know of. But if anyone would like to tell me otherwise... :-)

Would be great if I could just run a program on my PC, connect to
breadmaker (USB?) and download new settings.

--
Rod

Hypothyroidism is a seriously debilitating condition with an insidious
onset.
Although common it frequently goes undiagnosed.
<www.thyromind.info> <www.thyroiduk.org> <www.altsupportthyroid.org>

The Medway Handyman

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 1:12:04 PM2/17/09
to
meow...@care2.com wrote:
> dave wrote:
>> I bought a bread making machine (new) several months ago and
>> basically - it's junk! After 4 months regular use the baking part of
>> it packed up. Turned out to be the thermal fuse had gone. I replaced
>> that - nearest I could get was 5deg higher - that lasted two weeks
>> and that blew too. Ok, so I decided just to use the dough mixing
>> "feature" and that turned out to be rather good because the bread
>> baked in the gas oven was far better in texture.
>>
>> Unfortunately the mixing part packed up a month later! Mechanical
>> failure I can't fix: basically the circlips snapped on the drive
>> shaft. I replaced them but they kept snapping and now the actual
>> "winder" part of the mixer had snapped (heh heh great fun eh). This
>> machine was what I thought was a reputable make (Smuffy Pilchards or
>> something). I just couldn't be bothered with the usual joke
>> warrantee.

>>
>> Anyway, the penny finally dropped that what I would really like is a
>> decent dough mixer - not a bread making machine at all. Took a look
>> on good 'ol ebay and the mixers are hundreds of pounds! So I suppose
>> they are for real bakeries. So finally - my question is, does anyone
>> know if there is a reasonably priced (~?100) dough mixer available

>> that will actual last a few years?
>> thanks
>> Bread roll anyone?

>
> Any food processor can mix dough. Of the old mixer types, the Kenwood
> chef seems to be one of the most popular and well respected, and I
> know they last well.

My fav trivia question - who invented the Kenwood Chef?


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


The Medway Handyman

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 1:13:11 PM2/17/09
to
Man at B&Q wrote:
> On Feb 17, 9:01 am, "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net>
> wrote:
>> <meow2...@care2.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:7ab7f17d-7f6a-48dc...@v38g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> Any food processor can mix dough. Of the old mixer types, the
>>> Kenwood chef seems to be one of the most popular and well
>>> respected, and I know they last well.
>>
>> The don't do the same job..
>
> They do, when the OP is asking for something to only *mix* the dough.
>
> Try reading the thread your replying to.

Dennis doesn't seem to be able to do that...

The Medway Handyman

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 1:14:08 PM2/17/09
to

I thought your memory was perfect?

dennis@home

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 1:47:15 PM2/17/09
to

"S Viemeister" <firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote in message

news:70089bF...@mid.individual.net...


> dennis@home wrote:
>
>> Well a food processor with dough hooks is not going to make his dough
>> without lots of fiddling about.
>
> Really?
>
>
>> Making bread dough is a multi stage affair which he will have to do
>> himself if uses a mixer/processor.
>> He will have to chuck in his mix and mix it, then knead it, then take it
>> out and put it into a warm place to ferment, then he will have knead it,
>> then put it back into the warm, then knock it out, then put it in the
>> warm, then shape it, then put it in the warm, then cook it.
>
> I've been making bread 2 or 3 times a week for more than 30 years. I find
> that my Kenwood mixer does an excellent job, with no fussing. I dump in
> all the ingredients (_not_ a mix), and turn the machine on. In little
> more than 5 minutes, the dough has been mixed and kneaded. My mixer has
> one of those plastic splash guards - I leave it in place while the dough
> rises. When it's risen, I turn the mixer on for a second, to knock down
> the dough, remove it from the bowl, shape it, and put it in a pan to rise.
> I don't find the need to put the rising dough in a warm place to rise, as
> a longer, slower, rise gives a better flavour, IMNSHO.

I find that the time spent fermenting doesn't have any effect on the flavour
at all.
As all the by-products, yeast, CO2 and alcohol are the same I don't really
see how they could have any effect on the taste either.
However it does have an effect on the texture and I find the dough made in
the machine is far better than any I have seen made by hand.
Just my experience YMMV.

Bruce

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 2:05:06 PM2/17/09
to
"The Medway Handyman" <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>My fav trivia question - who invented the Kenwood Chef?


Mr Kenneth Wood from South Croydon?

Fashioned the prototype from parts of a written-off 1936 Morris 8?

Er, no, I thought not. ;-)

Andrew Gabriel

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 2:06:26 PM2/17/09
to
In article <gnf0nm$91b$1...@news.datemas.de>,

"dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:
>
> I find that the time spent fermenting doesn't have any effect on the flavour
> at all.
> As all the by-products, yeast, CO2 and alcohol are the same I don't really
> see how they could have any effect on the taste either.
> However it does have an effect on the texture and I find the dough made in
> the machine is far better than any I have seen made by hand.
> Just my experience YMMV.

I used to make bread by hand before I had a bread machine.
I found that if you skimped on the kneeding, you got a loaf
with larger bubbles in it, and conversely, kneeding more
gives you a loaf with finer texture and smaller bubbles.
I saw an open university program on the science behind
bread making many years ago and it said this was because
you are folding the dough more which results in the finer
texture between many smaller bubbles.

In an attempt to make a very fine textured loaf in a bread
machine, I fooled it into doing the kneeding phase twice,
but it didn't make any difference. The bread machine is
100% consistent, and extra kneeding doesn't seem to have
the same effect it does by hand. Maybe it already kneeds
to some maximal effect, past which there's no further
change. Fortunately, what it delivers is what I want.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Bruce

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 2:09:44 PM2/17/09
to


Eek! Not a bad guess, was it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenwood_Chef

It was Mr Kenneth Wood, born in Lewisham and brought up at Chelsfield,
Kent. He patented the Kenwood Chef in 1950, but had set up his radio
and TV sales and repair company Dickson and Wood in 1936.

The Medway Handyman

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 2:30:18 PM2/17/09
to
Bruce wrote:
> Bruce <n...@nospam.net> wrote:
>> "The Medway Handyman" <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> My fav trivia question - who invented the Kenwood Chef?
>>
>>
>> Mr Kenneth Wood from South Croydon?
>>
>> Fashioned the prototype from parts of a written-off 1936 Morris 8?
>>
>> Er, no, I thought not. ;-)
>
>
> Eek! Not a bad guess, was it?

Well done that man!

Second fav trivia question; What was Napoleons first name?

Bruce

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 3:50:40 PM2/17/09
to
"The Medway Handyman" <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>Second fav trivia question; What was Napoleons first name?


Napoleon?

As in "Napoleon Bonaparte"?

The Medway Handyman

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 4:44:28 PM2/17/09
to

Yo da man!

I used to run quiz nights for the local school PTA. Surprising how many
people didn't catch that.

Bruce

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 4:45:50 PM2/17/09
to
"The Medway Handyman" <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>Bruce wrote:
>> "The Medway Handyman" <davi...@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Second fav trivia question; What was Napoleons first name?
>>
>>
>> Napoleon?
>>
>> As in "Napoleon Bonaparte"?
>
>Yo da man!


Well, I do try! ;-) <blushes>


>I used to run quiz nights for the local school PTA. Surprising how many
>people didn't catch that.


It's a classic trick question.

Mike Barnes

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 2:17:07 PM2/17/09
to
In uk.d-i-y, The Medway Handyman wrote:
>My fav trivia question - who invented the Kenwood Chef?

(without cheating) Ken Wood.

--
Mike Barnes

geoff

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 6:37:00 PM2/17/09
to
In message
<1c515971-a23c-46c4...@h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, Man
at B&Q <manat...@hotmail.com> writes

>On Feb 17, 9:01 am, "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net>
>wrote:
>> <meow2...@care2.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:7ab7f17d-7f6a-48dc...@v38g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > Any food processor can mix dough. Of the old mixer types, the Kenwood
>> > chef seems to be one of the most popular and well respected, and I
>> > know they last well.
>>
>> The don't do the same job..
>
>They do, when the OP is asking for something to only *mix* the dough.
>
>Try reading the thread your replying to.
>
Dennis strikes again ...

--
geoff

geoff

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 6:40:03 PM2/17/09
to
In message <gnehk0$6af$1...@news.datemas.de>, "dennis@home"
<den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes

>
>
>"S Viemeister" <firs...@lastname.oc.ku> wrote in message
>news:6vvuvtF...@mid.individual.net...
>> John Rumm wrote:
>>>
>>> The Chef comes with them as standard... It also has the power to do
>>>a decent job of it unlike many mixers.
>>>
>> And the Kenwood can be used for a number of other tasks, while the
>>bread machine is a single-purpose space-eater.
>
>My bread maker does bread, cakes, jam and probably some stuff I have
>forgotten about.
>
so - wife left you too ?

chew some nicorettes - might improve your memory

--
geoff

Bruce

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 6:54:45 PM2/17/09
to
Mike Barnes <mikeb...@bluebottle.com> wrote:

>In uk.d-i-y, The Medway Handyman wrote:
>>My fav trivia question - who invented the Kenwood Chef?
>
>(without cheating) Ken Wood.


I didn't cheat, I just guessed ... right.

Only when I did a Google search did I realise that I'd struck lucky. ;-)

OG

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 7:20:35 PM2/17/09
to

"Andrew Gabriel" <and...@cucumber.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:499b0ab2$0$511$5a6a...@news.aaisp.net.uk...

> In article <gnf0nm$91b$1...@news.datemas.de>,
> "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> writes:
>>
>> I find that the time spent fermenting doesn't have any effect on the
>> flavour
>> at all.
>> As all the by-products, yeast, CO2 and alcohol are the same I don't
>> really
>> see how they could have any effect on the taste either.
>> However it does have an effect on the texture and I find the dough made
>> in
>> the machine is far better than any I have seen made by hand.
>> Just my experience YMMV.
>
> I used to make bread by hand before I had a bread machine.
> I found that if you skimped on the kneeding, you got a loaf
> with larger bubbles in it, and conversely, kneeding more
> gives you a loaf with finer texture and smaller bubbles.
> I saw an open university program on the science behind
> bread making many years ago and it said this was because
> you are folding the dough more which results in the finer
> texture between many smaller bubbles.

My understanding is that it is more related to the stretching of the gluten
within the dough: kneading is essentially a stretching process rather than a
mixing process. Hence the importance of using strong (high protein) flour
and kneading it to make an extended network of protein chains through the
dough.

Brass Monkey

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 8:53:20 PM2/17/09
to

"Andy Burns" <usenet....@adslpipe.co.uk> wrote in message
news:A-WdnZmDmOiM6QfU...@posted.plusnet...
> Clive George wrote:
>
>> People I know swear by their Panasonic bread makers. Apparently they
>> don't break in the way yours did.
>
> Parents have one, they use it most days, so far going strong after 3 or 4
> years.

OK, but is it any good for making bread?


Brass Monkey

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 8:55:44 PM2/17/09
to

"Ian White" <I...@ifwtech.co.uk> wrote in message
news:$TalcvNa...@ifwtech.co.uk...

> Clive George wrote:
>>> This
>>> machine was what I thought was a reputable make (Smuffy Pilchards or
>>> something). I just couldn't be bothered with the usual joke warrantee.
>>
>>Failure after 6 months, I'd have bothered. You'd have got a new one
>>without much fuss.
>
> Yes, you should have. Can't say much for the Morphy Richards bread
> machine, as the mechanical design isn't up to the job; but the warranty
> service has been excellent. Over the two years we've been sent a
> replacement bread pan and a replacement mixing paddle, and when the main
> bearing seized they sent a whole new machine (including yet another pan
> and paddle) so we're well off for spares... all simply for the asking.

Reminds me of my old chap and his antique broom which had 5 new heads and 2
new stales.


Brass Monkey

unread,
Feb 17, 2009, 9:00:13 PM2/17/09
to

"Bob Mannix" <b1o...@mannix.org.uk> wrote in message
news:gneicr$s0u$1...@south.jnrs.ja.net...
> "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
> news:gnehur$7d4$1...@news.datemas.de...
>>
>>
>> "Bob Mannix" <b1o...@mannix.org.uk> wrote in message
>> news:gnehbk$rrd$1...@south.jnrs.ja.net...
>>
>>> Yes but the subject line asks for a dough mixer not a dough maker as
>>> that's what he wanted (as, it turns out, he can't do the kneading).
>>> Hence a solid mixer with a dough hook might be just what he wants
>>> (especially if it does other stuff as well). You have to answer the
>>> question asked not the one you think it ought to be :o).
>>
>> No I don't, I can offer the best advice I have, the OP can ignore it if
>> he wants.
>> This isn't B&Q where they will sell you the wrong thing in the hope you
>> come and buy the right thing later.
>>
>> Anyway the OP asked for something to replace a bread maker to make dough,
>> a mixer only does a bit of the job.
>
> As you clearly can't be bothered to read the original post here's the
> relevant bit again:

>
> "Anyway, the penny finally dropped that what I would really like is a
> decent dough mixer - not a bread making machine at all."
>
> You could give your best advice on flower arranging but it wouldn't be
> relevant.

You can actually buy bread at your local supermarket, these days.


The Medway Handyman

unread,
Feb 18, 2009, 3:10:58 AM2/18/09
to

Didn't 'Trigger' out of Only Fools & Horses have one like that?


--
Rodney - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


dennis@home

unread,
Feb 18, 2009, 4:26:21 AM2/18/09
to

"geoff" <ra...@kateda.org> wrote in message
news:wfIw7JHT...@ntlworld.com...

> chew some nicorettes - might improve your memory

I see you are trying to improve the way people think of drivel by showing
them how good he is compared to you.

Owain

unread,
Feb 18, 2009, 7:39:00 AM2/18/09
to
Brass Monkey wrote:
> You can actually buy bread at your local supermarket, these days.

Not everyone has a local supermarket.

Besides, not everyone likes Chorleywood process bread.
http://www.allotment.org.uk/allotment_foods/bread-making/chorleywood-bread-process.php

Owain


Janet Tweedy

unread,
Feb 18, 2009, 7:15:07 AM2/18/09
to
In article <A-WdnZmDmOiM6QfU...@posted.plusnet>, Andy Burns
<usenet....@adslpipe.co.uk> writes

>Clive George wrote:
>
>> People I know swear by their Panasonic bread makers. Apparently they
>>don't break in the way yours did.
>
>Parents have one, they use it most days, so far going strong after 3 or
>4 years.

Yes, same here, most things i buy don't last but the Panasonic
breadmaker hasn't put a spoke wrong in the last 4 years And we do use it
regularly!

Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

The Medway Handyman

unread,
Feb 18, 2009, 12:40:02 PM2/18/09
to

You already hold the crown Dennis. You make Drivel seem sensible.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk


meow...@care2.com

unread,
Feb 18, 2009, 4:22:51 PM2/18/09
to
Rod wrote:
> meow...@care2.com wrote:

> > Are they (re)programmable?
> >
> >
> > NT
>
> Not that I know of. But if anyone would like to tell me otherwise... :-)
>
> Would be great if I could just run a program on my PC, connect to
> breadmaker (USB?) and download new settings.

If they had a usb socket, many end users would have come up with a
whole range of different uses and programs for it. People would be
using them to make breads, cakes, soups, jams, pie fillings, rice,
stews, mould plastics, breed tadpoles, dehydrate food, you name it.
The machines would thus be far more used and worth more.


NT

Andrew Gabriel

unread,
Feb 18, 2009, 7:04:01 PM2/18/09
to
In article <bf175a6b-7bea-42ec...@v42g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,

meow...@care2.com writes:
> Rod wrote:
>> meow...@care2.com wrote:
>
>> > Are they (re)programmable?
>> >
>> >
>> > NT
>>
>> Not that I know of. But if anyone would like to tell me otherwise... :-)
>>
>> Would be great if I could just run a program on my PC, connect to
>> breadmaker (USB?) and download new settings.
>
> If they had a usb socket, many end users would have come up with a
> whole range of different uses and programs for it. People would be
> using them to make breads, cakes, soups, jams, pie fillings, rice,
> stews, mould plastics, breed tadpoles, dehydrate food, you name it.

Mixing mortar, making polyfilla, mixing plaster, stirring paint,
thinning PVA...

The Medway Handyman

unread,
Feb 18, 2009, 7:17:35 PM2/18/09