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What is the point of C-plan?
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Lieutenant Scott
Nov 30, 2011, 4:12:59 AM11/30/11
to
I think I'm using the correct terminology here, forgive me if I'm not....
I have S-plan - hot water comes out the boiler, through the pump, then divides into three (it was two, but I modified it!) to go through three independent valves. One goes to the heat exchanger in the hot water tank. Another goes to the radiators in the house, the other goes to radiators in the garage (I converted it to a parrot aviary, and electric heating is expensive!).
My question is, what is the point of C-plan - where you don't have a choice, you have to heat the water when you heat the house (or is it the other way round?). My parents boiler is set up so they have to heat the water when they heat the house. What if the house is too cold, but you aren't planning on taking a bath that day? I know the heat from the tank will eventually seep out into the house, or get used later as hot water, but it seems daft to throw heat into something you don't want right now.
--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com
The 2 most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
I have S-plan - hot water comes out the boiler, through the pump, then divides into three (it was two, but I modified it!) to go through three independent valves. One goes to the heat exchanger in the hot water tank. Another goes to the radiators in the house, the other goes to radiators in the garage (I converted it to a parrot aviary, and electric heating is expensive!).
My question is, what is the point of C-plan - where you don't have a choice, you have to heat the water when you heat the house (or is it the other way round?). My parents boiler is set up so they have to heat the water when they heat the house. What if the house is too cold, but you aren't planning on taking a bath that day? I know the heat from the tank will eventually seep out into the house, or get used later as hot water, but it seems daft to throw heat into something you don't want right now.
--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com
The 2 most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
Tim Downie
Nov 30, 2011, 6:32:38 AM11/30/11
to
Lieutenant Scott wrote:
> I think I'm using the correct terminology here, forgive me if I'm
> not....
> I have S-plan - hot water comes out the boiler, through the pump,
> then divides into three (it was two, but I modified it!) to go
> through three independent valves. One goes to the heat exchanger in
> the hot water tank. Another goes to the radiators in the house, the
> other goes to radiators in the garage (I converted it to a parrot
> aviary, and electric heating is expensive!).
> My question is, what is the point of C-plan - where you don't have a
> choice, you have to heat the water when you heat the house (or is it
> the other way round?). My parents boiler is set up so they have to
> heat the water when they heat the house. What if the house is too
> cold, but you aren't planning on taking a bath that day? I know the
> heat from the tank will eventually seep out into the house, or get
> used later as hot water, but it seems daft to throw heat into
> something you don't want right now.
The "point" is that it's an archaic system that relies on gravity
> I think I'm using the correct terminology here, forgive me if I'm
> not....
> I have S-plan - hot water comes out the boiler, through the pump,
> then divides into three (it was two, but I modified it!) to go
> through three independent valves. One goes to the heat exchanger in
> the hot water tank. Another goes to the radiators in the house, the
> other goes to radiators in the garage (I converted it to a parrot
> aviary, and electric heating is expensive!).
> My question is, what is the point of C-plan - where you don't have a
> choice, you have to heat the water when you heat the house (or is it
> the other way round?). My parents boiler is set up so they have to
> heat the water when they heat the house. What if the house is too
> cold, but you aren't planning on taking a bath that day? I know the
> heat from the tank will eventually seep out into the house, or get
> used later as hot water, but it seems daft to throw heat into
> something you don't want right now.
circulation to heat the water and consequently no motorised valves are
required. As you've worked out, it means that you don't have fully
independant control of your HW and CH systems *but*, it is simple and
reliable with the pump being the only moving part outside the boiler. Pumps
generally last a lot longer (or at least they used to) than motorised valves
where problems with either the motors or the switches are relatively common.
In these days of higher fuel costs and possibly higher HW consumption, fully
pumped systems with motorised valves make more sense for 99% of the
population who want as stored HW system but the simplicity and reliability
of the old systems may be valued more by folk who don't use a lot of HW.
Tim
BraileTrail
Nov 30, 2011, 6:05:20 AM11/30/11
to
On Nov 30, 9:12 am, "Lieutenant Scott" <n...@spam.com> wrote:
> My question is, what is the point of C-plan - where you don't have a choice, you have to heat the water when you heat the house (or is
> it the other way round?). My parents boiler is set up so they have to heat the water when they heat the house. What if the house is too
> cold, but you aren't planning on taking a bath that day? I know the heat from the tank will eventually seep out into the house, or get
> used later as hot water, but it seems daft to throw heat into something you don't want right now.
I believe that C-plan is mainly (only?) used for pumped heating with
> My question is, what is the point of C-plan - where you don't have a choice, you have to heat the water when you heat the house (or is
> it the other way round?). My parents boiler is set up so they have to heat the water when they heat the house. What if the house is too
> cold, but you aren't planning on taking a bath that day? I know the heat from the tank will eventually seep out into the house, or get
> used later as hot water, but it seems daft to throw heat into something you don't want right now.
gravity hot water systems.
HTH,
BraileTrail
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 30, 2011, 7:04:03 AM11/30/11
to
Why isn;t the apostrophe next to the L? Who ever uses the semicolon???
Tim Downie
Nov 30, 2011, 8:06:12 AM11/30/11
to
could be a major cause of expense and inconvenience to non-DIYers. You only
need to read a few "My combis stopped working!" threads to realise sometimes
reliabilty is more important that maximum efficiency for some folk.
Tim
David WE Roberts
Nov 30, 2011, 9:14:45 AM11/30/11
to
"Tim Downie" <timdow...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:jb548m$d5h$1...@dont-email.me...
two houses ago I was on 'C' plan and it worked very well.
I had a Parkray anthracite bean boiler for heating the living room, hot
water and radiators during the colder months.
I also had a Raeburn cooker with a back boiler which we used for heating the
kitchen and for cooking for most of the year.
This also gave us "free" hot water.
Now with older style solid fuel back boilers you don't want any valves to
restrict the circulation of the hot water from the back boiler to the hot
water tank or you could build up a head of steam - a couple of times we
forgot to shut the damper on the raeburn and managed to boil up the hot
water tank in the middle of the night.
The Parkray was fine, because it had a thermostatic damper.
I can't remember now if the two gravity systems were linked or if we had two
coils in the tank.
I suspect the two boilers were linked up near the tank.
So perhaps no point on modern systems (apart from simplicity) but with less
sophisticated heat sources the 'C' plan can work well.
Thinking on this, how are solid fuel stoves with back boilers linked into
heating systems these days?
Gravity feed to a heat store?
Cheers
Dave R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]
Helmuth von Moltke the Elder
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
John Rumm
Nov 30, 2011, 10:01:00 AM11/30/11
to
On 30/11/2011 09:12, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
> I think I'm using the correct terminology here, forgive me if I'm not....
>
> I have S-plan - hot water comes out the boiler, through the pump, then
> divides into three (it was two, but I modified it!) to go through three
That makes it S-Plus Plan now then:
> I think I'm using the correct terminology here, forgive me if I'm not....
>
> I have S-plan - hot water comes out the boiler, through the pump, then
> divides into three (it was two, but I modified it!) to go through three
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Central_Heating_Controls_and_Zoning#Multiple_heating_zones:_S_Plus-plan
> independent valves. One goes to the heat exchanger in the hot water
> tank. Another goes to the radiators in the house, the other goes to
> radiators in the garage (I converted it to a parrot aviary, and electric
> heating is expensive!).
>
> My question is, what is the point of C-plan - where you don't have a
> choice, you have to heat the water when you heat the house (or is it the
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Central_Heating_Controls_and_Zoning#Gravity_DHW:_C-Plan
Does have a choice in the sense that if the water cylinder is hot enough
the zone valve that permits gravity circulation does not open.
However older installs probably don't even have the zone valve on the
cylinder. (some other temperature sensitive / thermostatic valves were
also around at one point to inhibit flow to a hot cylinder)
> other way round?). My parents boiler is set up so they have to heat the
> water when they heat the house. What if the house is too cold, but you
> aren't planning on taking a bath that day? I know the heat from the tank
> will eventually seep out into the house, or get used later as hot water,
> but it seems daft to throw heat into something you don't want right now.
change it to be a genuine C plan setup as per the diagram above and the
wiring:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/0/0d/S-Plan-Wiring.gif
The you can use the programmer to not have the water heated when running
the heating. It does mean there needs to be a two port valve in the
water heating loop though.
--
Cheers,
John.
/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/
John Rumm
Nov 30, 2011, 10:03:23 AM11/30/11
to
On 30/11/2011 14:14, David WE Roberts wrote:
> Thinking on this, how are solid fuel stoves with back boilers linked
> into heating systems these days?
> Gravity feed to a heat store?
Yup can be... sometimes a separate coil HE in the cylinder...
> Thinking on this, how are solid fuel stoves with back boilers linked
> into heating systems these days?
> Gravity feed to a heat store?
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 30, 2011, 10:32:03 AM11/30/11
to
Auctioneer, n. The man who proclaims with a hammer that he has picked a pocket with his tongue.
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 30, 2011, 10:36:19 AM11/30/11
to
A guy bought his wife a beautiful diamond ring for Christmas.
A friend of his said, "I thought she wanted one of those sporty 4-Wheel drive vehicles."
"She did," he replied. "But where in the hell was I gonna find a fake Jeep?"
The Natural Philosopher
Nov 30, 2011, 11:01:36 AM11/30/11
to
Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>And surely, if the heating works
> and the water doesn't, to anyone with an ounce of common sense, this
> means the problem lies with something which is not common to both.
>
I am afraid that particular nuance is only available to PHd philosophers
>And surely, if the heating works
> and the water doesn't, to anyone with an ounce of common sense, this
> means the problem lies with something which is not common to both.
>
and logicians these days.
Mostly if the heating works and the hot water doesn't, its
- the governments fault, and they should Do Something
- global warming and the government should Do Something.
- to difficult for my pretty little head so I will Get A Man In And Sell
My Body.
- too difficult for my thick chav brain so I will trash the boiler, and
the whole house, and get some new social housing on the basis that this
one isn't fit to inhabit.
- all Gods Will so I will pray hard and trust in Jesus.
- down to my Karma, so I will light a scented candle and try not to
think of Angelina Jolie's bum while I do the spiritual masturbation bit.
I mean Scotty, what is the POINT of being clever and right, if you are
still going to get fucked over by someone somewhere..and complaining
very hard to people who are paid to listen is infinitely more fun than
putting spanner to pipe.
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 30, 2011, 11:07:46 AM11/30/11
to
I take loads of laxatives when the pollen count rises. It stops me sneezing - I daren't.
David WE Roberts
Nov 30, 2011, 12:03:00 PM11/30/11
to
"Lieutenant Scott" <n...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.v5rmytu1ytk5n5@i7-940...
> On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 14:14:45 -0000, David WE Roberts
> <nos...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Tim Downie" <timdow...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:jb548m$d5h$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> Lieutenant Scott wrote:
<big snip>
> <nos...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Tim Downie" <timdow...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:jb548m$d5h$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>> Now with older style solid fuel back boilers you don't want any valves to
>> restrict the circulation of the hot water from the back boiler to the hot
>> water tank or you could build up a head of steam - a couple of times we
>> forgot to shut the damper on the raeburn and managed to boil up the hot
>> water tank in the middle of the night.
>>
>> The Parkray was fine, because it had a thermostatic damper.
>>
>> I can't remember now if the two gravity systems were linked or if we had
>> two
>> coils in the tank.
>> I suspect the two boilers were linked up near the tank.
>>
>> So perhaps no point on modern systems (apart from simplicity) but with
>> less
>> sophisticated heat sources the 'C' plan can work well.
>>
>> Thinking on this, how are solid fuel stoves with back boilers linked into
>> heating systems these days?
>> Gravity feed to a heat store?
>
*That sounds far too complicated. I simply have a gas boiler, a pump, two
>> restrict the circulation of the hot water from the back boiler to the hot
>> water tank or you could build up a head of steam - a couple of times we
>> forgot to shut the damper on the raeburn and managed to boil up the hot
>> water tank in the middle of the night.
>>
>> The Parkray was fine, because it had a thermostatic damper.
>>
>> I can't remember now if the two gravity systems were linked or if we had
>> two
>> coils in the tank.
>> I suspect the two boilers were linked up near the tank.
>>
>> So perhaps no point on modern systems (apart from simplicity) but with
>> less
>> sophisticated heat sources the 'C' plan can work well.
>>
>> Thinking on this, how are solid fuel stoves with back boilers linked into
>> heating systems these days?
>> Gravity feed to a heat store?
>
valves (plus one for the garage heating but nevermind), and a *bunch of
radiators and a hot water tank. I can choose exactly what I want when I
want. I actually hardly ever use hot water so I have a *manual switch for
that, and the heating I leave on 24/365 at the room temperature I want, and
it simply doesn't fire up in summer.
Err......fine if you have mains gas.
it simply doesn't fire up in summer.
If you are not connected to mains gas then your options are more limited
If you chose solid fuel with back boilers on stoves and/or cookers then you
need a different system.
ARWadsworth
Nov 30, 2011, 12:57:01 PM11/30/11
to
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Central_Heating_Controls_and_Zoning#Gravity_DHW:_C-Plan
When HW is not called for via the cylinder stat or programmer then the valve
for the HW is closed.
--
Adam
* Sometimes I like to lay in my neighbours garden and pretend to be a
carrot *
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 30, 2011, 1:35:47 PM11/30/11
to
Barber: "Your hair is getting gray."
Customer: "Try cutting a little faster."
Lieutenant Scott
Nov 30, 2011, 1:47:07 PM11/30/11
to
HW only
heating only
Both?
"I have left orders to be awakened at any time in case of national emergency, even if I'm in a cabinet meeting." - Ronald Reagan
Tim Downie
Nov 30, 2011, 1:53:06 PM11/30/11
to
"Lieutenant Scott" <n...@spam.com> wrote in message news:op.v5rmrprvytk5n5@i7-940...
[quote]
As I said, I've never had one fail. And surely, if the heating works and the water doesn't, to anyone with an ounce of common sense, this means the problem lies with something which is not common to both.[/quote]
Well obviously everyone's mileage with vary. I've had two motors fail in the last 15 years.
Tim
ARWadsworth
Nov 30, 2011, 2:25:41 PM11/30/11
to
installed C Plan.
Roger Mills
Nov 30, 2011, 3:13:10 PM11/30/11
to
and pumped CH system (which was what you initially described), you can't
- you have to run the boiler to make the CH work, and that heats the HW
whether you want it or not.
BUT, convert it to a C-Plan, and that all changes. A C-Plan system has a
motorised valve in the gravity HW circuit and a thermostat on the HW
cylinder. The auxiliary switch on the valve (which needs to be of the
change-over variety) is wired in a cunning way which provides the following:
HW only: Valve opens, boiler runs until cylinder stat satisfied, then
boiler shuts down
CH only: Valve closes, boiler and pump run until room stat satisfied,
then boiler and pump shut down
Both: Valve opens, boiler and pump run. As soon as HW or CH demand
satisfied, system operates as per CH only or HW only, as appropriate.
When both demands are satisfied, the system shuts down.
I don't think that anyone would install a C-Plan system from scratch (in
preference to an S-Plan or Y-Plan) but it's good way of converting a
gravity HW system in order to provide independent control of HW and CH,
plus boiler interlock, without too much upheaval.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.
cynic
Nov 30, 2011, 3:19:43 PM11/30/11
to
On Nov 30, 9:12 am, "Lieutenant Scott" <n...@spam.com> wrote:
>
> The 2 most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
"Proper" C Plan uses a motorised valve in the gravity primary which
> The 2 most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
limits the temperature of the hot water cylinder.
See http://www.honeywelluk.com/products/Systems/Wired-Sundial/Sundial-C-Plan/
A dump radiator or towel rail is the norm to keep towels dry and
accomodate boiler heat dissipation. I think you are talking about a
simple gravity primary with pumped radiator circuit
Graham.
Nov 30, 2011, 8:14:37 PM11/30/11
to
valves installed made the DHW and CH capable of independent operation.
The only thing that prevented the DHW from running without the CH was
the mechanical Randall timeclock (oh look, they still make them
http://tinyurl.com/6u4v2kj )
So I augmented it with two rotary 3 position switches,
DHW=timed-off-constant & CH=timed-off-constant
A toggle switch on the same panel marked BOOST shorted out the cylinder
stat before bathtime.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
ARWadsworth
Dec 1, 2011, 1:20:04 PM12/1/11
to
Roger Mills wrote:
> I don't think that anyone would install a C-Plan system from scratch
> (in preference to an S-Plan or Y-Plan) but it's good way of
> converting a gravity HW system in order to provide independent
> control of HW and CH, plus boiler interlock, without too much
> upheaval.
You probably could not install one on a new system due to Part L.
> I don't think that anyone would install a C-Plan system from scratch
> (in preference to an S-Plan or Y-Plan) but it's good way of
> converting a gravity HW system in order to provide independent
> control of HW and CH, plus boiler interlock, without too much
> upheaval.
But as you said, you would be able to install a C Plan as a conversion on an
existing gravity (uncontrolled?) HW system.
News
Dec 2, 2011, 8:58:57 AM12/2/11
to
In message <op.v5q47xdyytk5n5@i7-940>, Lieutenant Scott <n...@spam.com>
writes
days ...
--
Graeme
writes
>
>My question is, what is the point of C-plan
No point whatsoever. No-one buys crappy teak laminate furniture these
>My question is, what is the point of C-plan
days ...
--
Graeme
Lieutenant Scott
Dec 2, 2011, 7:24:29 PM12/2/11
to
G-plan is ok.
A gang-member was holding his 8-month-old baby while his wife was in kitchen fixing lunch.
The baby murmured "mother".
The guy gets all excited and hollered to his wife "Hey, the baby just said half a word!"
Lieutenant Scott
Dec 26, 2011, 8:40:49 PM12/26/11
to
Mrs. Jones is having her house painted, and her husband comes home from work and leans against the freshly painted wall.
The next day, she says to the painter, "You wanna see where my husband put his hand last night?"
He sighs and says, "Look lady, I got a tough day's work ahead of me. Why don't you just make us a cup of tea?"
John Rumm
Dec 27, 2011, 12:05:59 PM12/27/11
to
hence you don't always get the choice.
Some modern systems actually work better with HW priority - i.e. using a
diversion valve rather than a mid position one. In cases where you have
a fast recovery cylinder that is able to absorb heat at the rate the
boiler can produce it, (many traditional cylinders can only heat at
around 5kW) it can make sense to give it the full output until warm, and
then divert back to the heating. Suits places with high hot water
demands, and also those with modern condensers running split temperature
operation (esp with weather compensation). The the boiler can run a hot
preset flow temperature for reheating the cylinder, and a variable flow
temperature appropriate for the heating load.
Roger Mills
Dec 28, 2011, 5:11:08 AM12/28/11
to
On 27/12/2011 17:05, John Rumm wrote:
> On 27/12/2011 01:40, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 19:25:41 -0000, ARWadsworth
>> <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> You can have HW only or CH only or both at the same time with a
>>> correctly
>>> installed C Plan.
>>
>> I fail to see why someone could go to the trouble of making it so you
>> couldn't.
>
I don't suppose they would do so intentionally. They might still foul it
> On 27/12/2011 01:40, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 19:25:41 -0000, ARWadsworth
>> <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> You can have HW only or CH only or both at the same time with a
>>> correctly
>>> installed C Plan.
>>
>> I fail to see why someone could go to the trouble of making it so you
>> couldn't.
>
up though!
> Some systems were converted from older designs such as gravity feed -
> hence you don't always get the choice.
>
would.
> Some modern systems actually work better with HW priority - i.e. using a
> diversion valve rather than a mid position one. In cases where you have
> a fast recovery cylinder that is able to absorb heat at the rate the
> boiler can produce it, (many traditional cylinders can only heat at
> around 5kW) it can make sense to give it the full output until warm, and
> then divert back to the heating. Suits places with high hot water
> demands, and also those with modern condensers running split temperature
> operation (esp with weather compensation). The the boiler can run a hot
> preset flow temperature for reheating the cylinder, and a variable flow
> temperature appropriate for the heating load.
>
>
gravity HW circuits. What you have discussed is the relative merits of
Y-Plan vs W-Plan - both of which are fully pumped.
doctordrivel
Dec 28, 2011, 9:24:27 AM12/28/11
to
news:jb59o4$d0k$1...@dont-email.me...
>> only Ł20 anyway (that's what I paid for the third one I just added -
works when the pump packs up, A standard B&Q available Grundfos is used. You
do not need water in the CH for the DHW to work. The pump does not spin
when calling DHW. Unbustable. Ultra reliable.
>> in fact even less if you just replace the motor/switch unit).
>
> As you say, motorised valves aren't really a big issue for DIYers but they
> could be a major cause of expense and inconvenience to non-DIYers. You
> only need to read a few "My combis stopped working!" threads to realise
> sometimes reliabilty is more important that maximum efficiency for some
> folk.
Then get an Intergas combi with only 4 moving parts. No 3-way valve, the DHW
>
> As you say, motorised valves aren't really a big issue for DIYers but they
> could be a major cause of expense and inconvenience to non-DIYers. You
> only need to read a few "My combis stopped working!" threads to realise
> sometimes reliabilty is more important that maximum efficiency for some
> folk.
works when the pump packs up, A standard B&Q available Grundfos is used. You
do not need water in the CH for the DHW to work. The pump does not spin
when calling DHW. Unbustable. Ultra reliable.
doctordrivel
Dec 28, 2011, 9:43:58 AM12/28/11
to
"John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
news:o5-dnTnIA5lkZ2TT...@brightview.co.uk...
> Some modern systems actually work better with HW priority - i.e. using a
> diversion valve rather than a mid position one. In cases where you have a
> fast recovery cylinder that is able to absorb heat at the rate the boiler
> can produce it, (many traditional cylinders can only heat at around 5kW)
> it can make sense to give it the full output until warm, and then divert
> back to the heating.
heat exchanger - the plate replaces the coil. Then have a bronze pump on
the fresh water side pumping into the top of the cylinder from the bottom
via the plate. The cylinder can be down-sized by 1/3 as the hot water is
dumped at the top of the cylinder. Re-heat is super fast and DHW is
available for say basin use within a minute of so from cold. The bigger the
boiler the better as all the heat from the boiler is dumped into the
cylinder. The bigger the boiler the smaller the cylinder. The boiler may be
dumping more heat into the top of the cylinder than what is being draw-off.
Using a cheaper "direct" unvented cylinder an Integas combi can be used to
heat the cylinder using a bronze pump. Same again as above in smaller
cylinder, etc. Much cheaper, simpler installation taking up less space. I
have done the figures.....and a far superior system.
John Rumm
Dec 28, 2011, 9:45:20 AM12/28/11
to
John Rumm
Dec 28, 2011, 10:27:48 AM12/28/11
to
On 28/12/2011 14:43, Doctor Drivel wrote:
> Using a cheaper "direct" unvented cylinder an Integas combi can be used
> to heat the cylinder using a bronze pump. Same again as above in smaller
> cylinder, etc. Much cheaper, simpler installation taking up less space.
> I have done the figures.....and a far superior system.
So are Integas offering the best kickback this month?
> Using a cheaper "direct" unvented cylinder an Integas combi can be used
> to heat the cylinder using a bronze pump. Same again as above in smaller
> cylinder, etc. Much cheaper, simpler installation taking up less space.
> I have done the figures.....and a far superior system.
ARWadsworth
Dec 28, 2011, 10:36:01 AM12/28/11
to
John Rumm wrote:
> On 28/12/2011 14:43, Doctor Drivel wrote:
>
>> Using a cheaper "direct" unvented cylinder an Integas combi can be
>> used to heat the cylinder using a bronze pump. Same again as above
>> in smaller cylinder, etc. Much cheaper, simpler installation taking
>> up less space. I have done the figures.....and a far superior system.
>
> So are Integas offering the best kickback this month?
No, they just have the prettiest pictures in the catalogue.
> On 28/12/2011 14:43, Doctor Drivel wrote:
>
>> Using a cheaper "direct" unvented cylinder an Integas combi can be
>> used to heat the cylinder using a bronze pump. Same again as above
>> in smaller cylinder, etc. Much cheaper, simpler installation taking
>> up less space. I have done the figures.....and a far superior system.
>
> So are Integas offering the best kickback this month?
--
Adam
doctordrivel
Dec 28, 2011, 10:51:24 AM12/28/11
to
"John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
> On 28/12/2011 14:43, Doctor Drivel wrote:
>
>> Using a cheaper "direct" unvented cylinder an Integas combi can be used
>> to heat the cylinder using a bronze pump. Same again as above in smaller
>> cylinder, etc. Much cheaper, simpler installation taking up less space.
>> I have done the figures.....and a far superior system.
>
> So are Integas offering the best kickback this month?
You obviously have never heard of them. Atmos rebadged them and sold in the
>
>> Using a cheaper "direct" unvented cylinder an Integas combi can be used
>> to heat the cylinder using a bronze pump. Same again as above in smaller
>> cylinder, etc. Much cheaper, simpler installation taking up less space.
>> I have done the figures.....and a far superior system.
>
> So are Integas offering the best kickback this month?
UK in a small way. They are the best, but limited in flow rate to around 15
litres/min depending on model. They are pushing them big in the UK now under
the original Dutch Intergas badge. Want a reliable combi that delivers with
outside temp compensation as standard and OpenTherm? Then Intergas cannot
be beaten. They are cost effective. They just do not go wrong. Simple
robust engineering. The whole of the back panel is the heat exchanger.
They can be open vented using an F&E tank with combined feed & expansion.
Then no external pressure relief valve is needed running through wall.
I put two of them in large house One doing CH up and one downstairs. One
doing one bathroom and one the other. The DHW was combined using check
valves and a small shock arrestor for the two baths. Compared to a large
space consuming unvented cylinder and all the zone valve paraphernalia, tat
can go wrong, it is very cheap - I have done the figures. Also heating
backup in the house as well. Always a winner on cost to install & run and in
use.
doctordrivel
Dec 28, 2011, 10:52:52 AM12/28/11
to
"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:jdfd13$rsl$1...@dont-email.me...
John Rumm
Dec 28, 2011, 7:38:13 PM12/28/11
to
doctordrivel
Dec 29, 2011, 5:38:05 AM12/29/11
to
"John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote in message
> On 28/12/2011 15:52, Doctor Drivel wrote:
>>
>> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:jdfd13$rsl$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> John Rumm wrote:
>>>> On 28/12/2011 14:43, Doctor Drivel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Using a cheaper "direct" unvented cylinder an Integas combi can be
>>>>> used to heat the cylinder using a bronze pump. Same again as above
>>>>> in smaller cylinder, etc. Much cheaper, simpler installation taking
>>>>> up less space. I have done the figures.....and a far superior system.
>>>>
>>>> So are Integas offering the best kickback this month?
>>>
>>> No, they just have the prettiest pictures in the catalogue.
>>
>> It is best you stick to ferrets.
>
> better than sticking to catalogues eh?
Ferrets eat them. Stick to DIY leave the real stuff to the pros.
>>
>> "ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:jdfd13$rsl$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> John Rumm wrote:
>>>> On 28/12/2011 14:43, Doctor Drivel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Using a cheaper "direct" unvented cylinder an Integas combi can be
>>>>> used to heat the cylinder using a bronze pump. Same again as above
>>>>> in smaller cylinder, etc. Much cheaper, simpler installation taking
>>>>> up less space. I have done the figures.....and a far superior system.
>>>>
>>>> So are Integas offering the best kickback this month?
>>>
>>> No, they just have the prettiest pictures in the catalogue.
>>
>> It is best you stick to ferrets.
>
> better than sticking to catalogues eh?
Lieutenant Scott
Dec 31, 2011, 8:00:13 AM12/31/11
to
Did I mention my boiler hasn't been serviced or repaired at all since 1999?
A male gynecologist is like an auto mechanic who never owned a car.
Lieutenant Scott
Dec 31, 2011, 12:50:15 PM12/31/11
to
On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:13:10 -0000, Roger Mills <watt....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 30/11/2011 18:47, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:57:01 -0000, ARWadsworth
>> <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>
>>>
>>>
>>> A C Plan is independant HW and CH and does use a motorised valve. See
>>>
>>> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Central_Heating_Controls_and_Zoning#Gravity_DHW:_C-Plan
>>>
>>>
>>> When HW is not called for via the cylinder stat or programmer then the
>>> valve
>>> for the HW is closed.
>>
>> Can you therefore have:
>>
>> HW only
>> heating only
>> Both?
>>
>
> YES! That's precisely the point of it. With a 'conventional' gravity HW
> and pumped CH system (which was what you initially described), you can't
> - you have to run the boiler to make the CH work, and that heats the HW
> whether you want it or not.
Mine does this very simply, one valve for the hot water, one for the heating. You can't have three choices with a valve with two positions!
> On 30/11/2011 18:47, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:57:01 -0000, ARWadsworth
>> <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>
>>>
>>>
>>> A C Plan is independant HW and CH and does use a motorised valve. See
>>>
>>> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Central_Heating_Controls_and_Zoning#Gravity_DHW:_C-Plan
>>>
>>>
>>> When HW is not called for via the cylinder stat or programmer then the
>>> valve
>>> for the HW is closed.
>>
>> Can you therefore have:
>>
>> HW only
>> heating only
>> Both?
>>
>
> YES! That's precisely the point of it. With a 'conventional' gravity HW
> and pumped CH system (which was what you initially described), you can't
> - you have to run the boiler to make the CH work, and that heats the HW
> whether you want it or not.
> BUT, convert it to a C-Plan, and that all changes. A C-Plan system has a
> motorised valve in the gravity HW circuit and a thermostat on the HW
> cylinder. The auxiliary switch on the valve (which needs to be of the
> change-over variety) is wired in a cunning way which provides the following:
> HW only: Valve opens, boiler runs until cylinder stat satisfied, then
> boiler shuts down
> CH only: Valve closes, boiler and pump run until room stat satisfied,
> then boiler and pump shut down
> Both: Valve opens, boiler and pump run. As soon as HW or CH demand
> satisfied, system operates as per CH only or HW only, as appropriate.
> When both demands are satisfied, the system shuts down.
> I don't think that anyone would install a C-Plan system from scratch (in
> preference to an S-Plan or Y-Plan) but it's good way of converting a
> gravity HW system in order to provide independent control of HW and CH,
> plus boiler interlock, without too much upheaval.
--
http://petersphotos.com
The New York Times, among other papers, recently published a new Hubble photograph of distant galaxies colliding.
Of course, astronomers have had pictures of colliding galaxies for quite some time now, but with the vastly improved resolution provided by the Hubble Space Telescope, you can actually see the lawyers rushing to the scene...
John Rumm
Dec 31, 2011, 2:21:21 PM12/31/11
to
is satisfied. HW+CH runs the pump as well.
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/images/6/6c/C-Plan-Wiring.gif
>> I don't think that anyone would install a C-Plan system from scratch (in
>> preference to an S-Plan or Y-Plan) but it's good way of converting a
>> gravity HW system in order to provide independent control of HW and CH,
>> plus boiler interlock, without too much upheaval.
Roger Mills
Dec 31, 2011, 2:52:13 PM12/31/11
to
On 31/12/2011 17:50, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:13:10 -0000, Roger Mills <watt....@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 30/11/2011 18:47, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>>> On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:57:01 -0000, ARWadsworth
>>> <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A C Plan is independant HW and CH and does use a motorised valve. See
>>>>
>>>> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Central_Heating_Controls_and_Zoning#Gravity_DHW:_C-Plan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When HW is not called for via the cylinder stat or programmer then the
>>>> valve
>>>> for the HW is closed.
>>>
>>> Can you therefore have:
>>>
>>> HW only
>>> heating only
>>> Both?
>>>
>>
>> YES! That's precisely the point of it. With a 'conventional' gravity HW
>> and pumped CH system (which was what you initially described), you can't
>> - you have to run the boiler to make the CH work, and that heats the HW
>> whether you want it or not.
>
> Mine does this very simply, one valve for the hot water, one for the
> heating. You can't have three choices with a valve with two positions!
>
All together now - OH YES YOU CAN!! You're forgetting that the pump also
> On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:13:10 -0000, Roger Mills <watt....@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 30/11/2011 18:47, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>>> On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:57:01 -0000, ARWadsworth
>>> <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A C Plan is independant HW and CH and does use a motorised valve. See
>>>>
>>>> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Central_Heating_Controls_and_Zoning#Gravity_DHW:_C-Plan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When HW is not called for via the cylinder stat or programmer then the
>>>> valve
>>>> for the HW is closed.
>>>
>>> Can you therefore have:
>>>
>>> HW only
>>> heating only
>>> Both?
>>>
>>
>> YES! That's precisely the point of it. With a 'conventional' gravity HW
>> and pumped CH system (which was what you initially described), you can't
>> - you have to run the boiler to make the CH work, and that heats the HW
>> whether you want it or not.
>
> Mine does this very simply, one valve for the hot water, one for the
> heating. You can't have three choices with a valve with two positions!
>
comes into the equation, but - in a gravity HW and pumped CH system
(which is where C-Plan is used) is only used for the CH. Thus:
Boiler on, Valve open, pump off - HW only
Boiler on, valve closed, pump on - CH only
Boiler on, valve open, pump on - both together
*I* make that *three* - what say *you*?
Presumably your system is fully pumped and is thus not relevant to a
discussion about C-Plan.
>> BUT, convert it to a C-Plan, and that all changes. A C-Plan system has a
>> motorised valve in the gravity HW circuit and a thermostat on the HW
>> cylinder. The auxiliary switch on the valve (which needs to be of the
>> change-over variety) is wired in a cunning way which provides the
>> following:
>> HW only: Valve opens, boiler runs until cylinder stat satisfied, then
>> boiler shuts down
>> CH only: Valve closes, boiler and pump run until room stat satisfied,
>> then boiler and pump shut down
>> Both: Valve opens, boiler and pump run. As soon as HW or CH demand
>> satisfied, system operates as per CH only or HW only, as appropriate.
>> When both demands are satisfied, the system shuts down.
>
> What causes the difference in operation between HW only and HW + CH?
>
the C-Plan circuit diagram shown in the reference above. The valve's
auxiliary change-over switch is the cunning bit to watch. When there is
only a CH demand - so that the valve is closed - the programmer/room
stat switch the pump and the contacts in the valve switch the boiler.
Lieutenant Scott
Dec 31, 2011, 3:03:27 PM12/31/11
to
>>> BUT, convert it to a C-Plan, and that all changes. A C-Plan system has a
>>> motorised valve in the gravity HW circuit and a thermostat on the HW
>>> cylinder. The auxiliary switch on the valve (which needs to be of the
>>> change-over variety) is wired in a cunning way which provides the
>>> following:
>>> HW only: Valve opens, boiler runs until cylinder stat satisfied, then
>>> boiler shuts down
>>> CH only: Valve closes, boiler and pump run until room stat satisfied,
>>> then boiler and pump shut down
>>> Both: Valve opens, boiler and pump run. As soon as HW or CH demand
>>> satisfied, system operates as per CH only or HW only, as appropriate.
>>> When both demands are satisfied, the system shuts down.
>>
>> What causes the difference in operation between HW only and HW + CH?
>
> The PUMP - see above. If you want to understand it, you'll need to study
> the C-Plan circuit diagram shown in the reference above. The valve's
> auxiliary change-over switch is the cunning bit to watch. When there is
> only a CH demand - so that the valve is closed - the programmer/room
> stat switch the pump and the contacts in the valve switch the boiler.
You have got to remember that women make babies - not a great bit of design work. Messy, noisy and cannot do anything useful.
ARWadsworth
Dec 31, 2011, 3:21:16 PM12/31/11
to
--
Adam
Lieutenant Scott
Dec 31, 2011, 5:23:26 PM12/31/11
to
Heaven is where the police are British, the chefs Italian, the mechanics
German, the lovers French and it is all organized by the Swiss.
Hell is where the police are German, the chefs British, the mechanics
French, the lovers Swiss and it is all organized by Italians.
Lieutenant Scott
Dec 31, 2011, 5:25:33 PM12/31/11
to
"His idea of safe sex is an `X' spray-painted on the rump of animals that are known to kick."
Roger Mills
Dec 31, 2011, 6:15:55 PM12/31/11
to
On 31/12/2011 20:03, Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>
> Relying on gravity for HW to function - I wouldn't do that. Sounds like
> something Renault would design - have you seen their cooling systems?
>
Thermo-syphon hot water systems have been around for a lot longer than
>
> Relying on gravity for HW to function - I wouldn't do that. Sounds like
> something Renault would design - have you seen their cooling systems?
>
you or I - almost certainly before Renault built any cars!
I wouldn't use it in a domestic hot water system *today* but in 1968
when I installed my first system it was still the accepted way of doing
things.
As I have said many times, no-one would install a new system based on
C-Plan *but* converting a basic gravity HW/pumped CH system to C-Plan is
an acceptable way of improving its control and efficiency without too
much upheaval.
>> If you want to understand it, you'll need to study
>> the C-Plan circuit diagram shown in the reference above. The valve's
>> auxiliary change-over switch is the cunning bit to watch. When there is
>> only a CH demand - so that the valve is closed - the programmer/room
>> stat switch the pump and the contacts in the valve switch the boiler.
>
> Surely it can be simpler than that. The HW control (and thermostat) turn
> on the valve.
> The CH control (and room stat) turn on the pump.
> The boiler is switched on by the central heating control/stat and the valve.
which demands are present, the boiler will run with just the pump or
just the valve - or both - and when both demands are satisfied, the
boiler shuts down and doesn't waste energy cycling on its own stat?
Let's see your circuit diagram!
By using the valve's auxiliary changeover switch in a particular way,
C-Plan achieves all of the above.
Lieutenant Scott
Dec 31, 2011, 8:00:30 PM12/31/11
to
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php?title=Central_Heating_Controls_and_Zoning#Gravity_DHW:_C-Plan
When you said cunning, I thought you meant something more complicated! I have a degree in digital microelectronics so CH systems are not rocket science :-P That looks very much like what I have in my 2 valve system, but with only 1 valve. I was imagining the valve only having a 1 way switch, and added a relay.
I've got trouble with the wife again - she came into the bar
looking for me and I asked for her number.
Roger Mills
Jan 1, 2012, 6:13:20 AM1/1/12
to
on the subject! Cunning in the sense that, by wiring it that way, you
avoid the need for any relays.
I think it's time we closed this down! So, to answer the question once
and for all "What's the point of C-Plan?"
* It's NOT the answer to every maiden's prayer
* It's NOT suitable for new installations
* It has very limited application, but
* It IS an extremely useful conversion for *existing* gravity HW/pumped
CH systems because it gives independent control over HW and CH and
provides boiler interlock.
End of!!
Lieutenant Scott
Jan 1, 2012, 10:36:15 AM1/1/12
to
On Thu, 01 Dec 2011 01:14:37 -0000, Graham. <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 30/11/2011 11:32, Tim Downie wrote:
> When I moved into this house in 1979 I realised that the two motorised
> valves installed made the DHW and CH capable of independent operation.
> The only thing that prevented the DHW from running without the CH was
> the mechanical Randall timeclock (oh look, they still make them
> http://tinyurl.com/6u4v2kj )
> So I augmented it with two rotary 3 position switches,
> DHW=timed-off-constant & CH=timed-off-constant
> A toggle switch on the same panel marked BOOST shorted out the cylinder
> stat before bathtime.
Is it a good idea to override the cylinder stat? Why would you want the water hotter than what you set the stat to?
If breasts had no nipples, they'd be pointless.
> On 30/11/2011 11:32, Tim Downie wrote:
>> Lieutenant Scott wrote:
>>> I think I'm using the correct terminology here, forgive me if I'm
>>> not....
>>> I have S-plan - hot water comes out the boiler, through the pump,
>>> then divides into three (it was two, but I modified it!) to go
>>> through three independent valves. One goes to the heat exchanger in
>>> the hot water tank. Another goes to the radiators in the house, the
>>> other goes to radiators in the garage (I converted it to a parrot
>>> aviary, and electric heating is expensive!).
>>> My question is, what is the point of C-plan - where you don't have a
>>> choice, you have to heat the water when you heat the house (or is it
>>> the other way round?). My parents boiler is set up so they have to
>>> heat the water when they heat the house. What if the house is too
>>> cold, but you aren't planning on taking a bath that day? I know the
>>> heat from the tank will eventually seep out into the house, or get
>>> used later as hot water, but it seems daft to throw heat into
>>> something you don't want right now.
>>
>>> I think I'm using the correct terminology here, forgive me if I'm
>>> not....
>>> I have S-plan - hot water comes out the boiler, through the pump,
>>> then divides into three (it was two, but I modified it!) to go
>>> through three independent valves. One goes to the heat exchanger in
>>> the hot water tank. Another goes to the radiators in the house, the
>>> other goes to radiators in the garage (I converted it to a parrot
>>> aviary, and electric heating is expensive!).
>>> My question is, what is the point of C-plan - where you don't have a
>>> choice, you have to heat the water when you heat the house (or is it
>>> the other way round?). My parents boiler is set up so they have to
>>> heat the water when they heat the house. What if the house is too
>>> cold, but you aren't planning on taking a bath that day? I know the
>>> heat from the tank will eventually seep out into the house, or get
>>> used later as hot water, but it seems daft to throw heat into
>>> something you don't want right now.
>>
>> The "point" is that it's an archaic system that relies on gravity
>> circulation to heat the water and consequently no motorised valves are
>> required. As you've worked out, it means that you don't have fully
>> independant control of your HW and CH systems *but*, it is simple and
>> reliable with the pump being the only moving part outside the boiler.
>> Pumps generally last a lot longer (or at least they used to) than
>> motorised valves where problems with either the motors or the switches
>> are relatively common.
>>
>> In these days of higher fuel costs and possibly higher HW consumption,
>> fully pumped systems with motorised valves make more sense for 99% of
>> the population who want as stored HW system but the simplicity and
>> reliability of the old systems may be valued more by folk who don't use
>> a lot of HW.
>>
>> Tim
>> circulation to heat the water and consequently no motorised valves are
>> required. As you've worked out, it means that you don't have fully
>> independant control of your HW and CH systems *but*, it is simple and
>> reliable with the pump being the only moving part outside the boiler.
>> Pumps generally last a lot longer (or at least they used to) than
>> motorised valves where problems with either the motors or the switches
>> are relatively common.
>>
>> In these days of higher fuel costs and possibly higher HW consumption,
>> fully pumped systems with motorised valves make more sense for 99% of
>> the population who want as stored HW system but the simplicity and
>> reliability of the old systems may be valued more by folk who don't use
>> a lot of HW.
>>
> When I moved into this house in 1979 I realised that the two motorised
> valves installed made the DHW and CH capable of independent operation.
> The only thing that prevented the DHW from running without the CH was
> the mechanical Randall timeclock (oh look, they still make them
> http://tinyurl.com/6u4v2kj )
> So I augmented it with two rotary 3 position switches,
> DHW=timed-off-constant & CH=timed-off-constant
> A toggle switch on the same panel marked BOOST shorted out the cylinder
> stat before bathtime.
Is it a good idea to override the cylinder stat? Why would you want the water hotter than what you set the stat to?
If breasts had no nipples, they'd be pointless.
Lieutenant Scott
Jan 1, 2012, 10:34:43 AM1/1/12
to
> I think it's time we closed this down! So, to answer the question once
> and for all "What's the point of C-Plan?"
>
> * It's NOT the answer to every maiden's prayer
> * It's NOT suitable for new installations
> * It has very limited application, but
>
> * It IS an extremely useful conversion for *existing* gravity HW/pumped
> CH systems because it gives independent control over HW and CH and
> provides boiler interlock.
>
> End of!!
You know you've spent too much time on the computer when you spill milk and the first thing you think is, 'Edit, Undo.'
NT
Jan 1, 2012, 11:20:28 AM1/1/12
to
On Nov 30 2011, 9:12 am, "Lieutenant Scott" <n...@spam.com> wrote:
> I think I'm using the correct terminology here, forgive me if I'm not....
>
> I have S-plan - hot water comes out the boiler, through the pump, then divides into three (it was two, but I modified it!) to go through three independent valves. One goes to the heat exchanger in the hot water tank. Another goes to the radiators in the house, the other goes to radiators in the garage (I converted it to a parrot aviary, and electric heating is expensive!).
>
> My question is, what is the point of C-plan - where you don't have a choice, you have to heat the water when you heat the house (or is it the other way round?). My parents boiler is set up so they have to heat the water when they heat the house. What if the house is too cold, but you aren't planning on taking a bath that day? I know the heat from the tank will eventually seep out into the house, or get used later as hot water, but it seems daft to throw heat into something you don't want right now.
I'm wondering what A plan was. Lead kettle hanging over a fire?
> I think I'm using the correct terminology here, forgive me if I'm not....
>
> I have S-plan - hot water comes out the boiler, through the pump, then divides into three (it was two, but I modified it!) to go through three independent valves. One goes to the heat exchanger in the hot water tank. Another goes to the radiators in the house, the other goes to radiators in the garage (I converted it to a parrot aviary, and electric heating is expensive!).
>
> My question is, what is the point of C-plan - where you don't have a choice, you have to heat the water when you heat the house (or is it the other way round?). My parents boiler is set up so they have to heat the water when they heat the house. What if the house is too cold, but you aren't planning on taking a bath that day? I know the heat from the tank will eventually seep out into the house, or get used later as hot water, but it seems daft to throw heat into something you don't want right now.
NT
Roger Mills
Jan 1, 2012, 12:07:19 PM1/1/12
to
On 01/01/2012 16:20, NT wrote:
>
> I'm wondering what A plan was. Lead kettle hanging over a fire?
>
>
> NT
Maybe. <g>
>
> I'm wondering what A plan was. Lead kettle hanging over a fire?
>
>
> NT
Actually, I don't think that Mr Honeywell invented plans for *every*
letter of the alphabet - the only common ones being C, S, W and Y.
Whereas Y may be descriptive of what it actually does, I don't know how
the other letters were arrived at.
Lieutenant Scott
Jan 1, 2012, 1:12:36 PM1/1/12
to
Why hasn't there ever been a woman on the moon?
It doesn't need cleaning yet.
John Rumm
Jan 1, 2012, 2:16:56 PM1/1/12
to
On 01/01/2012 17:07, Roger Mills wrote:
> On 01/01/2012 16:20, NT wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm wondering what A plan was. Lead kettle hanging over a fire?
>>
>>
>> NT
>
> Maybe. <g>
>
> Actually, I don't think that Mr Honeywell invented plans for *every*
> letter of the alphabet - the only common ones being C, S, W and Y.
> Whereas Y may be descriptive of what it actually does, I don't know how
> the other letters were arrived at.
Well you can sort of see the logic in the letter shapes for some... C
> On 01/01/2012 16:20, NT wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm wondering what A plan was. Lead kettle hanging over a fire?
>>
>>
>> NT
>
> Maybe. <g>
>
> Actually, I don't think that Mr Honeywell invented plans for *every*
> letter of the alphabet - the only common ones being C, S, W and Y.
> Whereas Y may be descriptive of what it actually does, I don't know how
> the other letters were arrived at.
could represent a half pumped system - pumped circulation just on the
right hand side. Y obviously splitting into a y shaped branch. W being a
bit like Y but different. Not sure where the S came from - "separate"
perhaps ;-)
Graham.
Mar 4, 2012, 5:21:01 PM3/4/12
to
>> When I moved into this house in 1979 I realised that the two motorised
>> valves installed made the DHW and CH capable of independent operation.
>> The only thing that prevented the DHW from running without the CH was
>> the mechanical Randall timeclock (oh look, they still make them
>> http://tinyurl.com/6u4v2kj )
>> So I augmented it with two rotary 3 position switches,
>> DHW=timed-off-constant & CH=timed-off-constant
>> A toggle switch on the same panel marked BOOST shorted out the cylinder
>> stat before bathtime.
>
>Is it a good idea to override the cylinder stat? Why would you want the water hotter than what you set the stat to?
The cylinder stat is in the loft so not really accessable. It's set to
a lowish temperature for economical hand/dish washing, but at that
temp there isn't really the volume of stored water for a good hot
bath-full, hence the "boost" switch.
It's served us well for 30+ years.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
Roger Mills
Mar 5, 2012, 7:37:48 AM3/5/12
to
On 04/03/2012 22:21, Graham. wrote:
>
>>> When I moved into this house in 1979 I realised that the two motorised
>>> valves installed made the DHW and CH capable of independent operation.
>>> The only thing that prevented the DHW from running without the CH was
>>> the mechanical Randall timeclock (oh look, they still make them
>>> http://tinyurl.com/6u4v2kj )
>>> So I augmented it with two rotary 3 position switches,
>>> DHW=timed-off-constant& CH=timed-off-constant
>
>>> When I moved into this house in 1979 I realised that the two motorised
>>> valves installed made the DHW and CH capable of independent operation.
>>> The only thing that prevented the DHW from running without the CH was
>>> the mechanical Randall timeclock (oh look, they still make them
>>> http://tinyurl.com/6u4v2kj )
>>> So I augmented it with two rotary 3 position switches,
>>> A toggle switch on the same panel marked BOOST shorted out the cylinder
>>> stat before bathtime.
>>
>> Is it a good idea to override the cylinder stat? Why would you want the water hotter than what you set the stat to?
>
> It's an old thread but I just rediscovered it so I'll respond.
>
> The cylinder stat is in the loft so not really accessable. It's set to
> a lowish temperature for economical hand/dish washing, but at that
> temp there isn't really the volume of stored water for a good hot
> bath-full, hence the "boost" switch.
> It's served us well for 30+ years.
>
>
It would, in that case, be better to have *two* cylinder stats - set at
>>> stat before bathtime.
>>
>> Is it a good idea to override the cylinder stat? Why would you want the water hotter than what you set the stat to?
>
> It's an old thread but I just rediscovered it so I'll respond.
>
> The cylinder stat is in the loft so not really accessable. It's set to
> a lowish temperature for economical hand/dish washing, but at that
> temp there isn't really the volume of stored water for a good hot
> bath-full, hence the "boost" switch.
> It's served us well for 30+ years.
>
>
two different temperatures - with a change-over switch to define which
one is to be used. That way, you'd preserve the boiler interlock
feature, enabling the boiler to shut down once whichever stat was in use
was satisfied.
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