Fuck, Keir Starmer is a stupid boring cunt.

[The Natural Philosopher]

cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician


--
"If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

[Roger Hayter]

On 29 Sep 2021 at 13:26:20 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"

<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician

True. But look what happens to Labour leaders who speak with honesty and
humility.

--
Roger Hayter

[The Natural Philosopher]

I cannot at this moment recall one who ever did?

--
“Some people like to travel by train because it combines the slowness of
a car with the cramped public exposure of 
an airplane.”

Dennis Miller

[Scott]

On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:14:27 +0100, The Natural Philosopher

<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 29/09/2021 14:09, Roger Hayter wrote:
>> On 29 Sep 2021 at 13:26:20 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
>>> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician
>>
>> True. But look what happens to Labour leaders who speak with honesty and
>> humility.
>>
>I cannot at this moment recall one who ever did?

Michael Foot?

[R Souls]

On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:14:27 +0100, The Natural Philosopher

<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 29/09/2021 14:09, Roger Hayter wrote:
>> On 29 Sep 2021 at 13:26:20 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
>>> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician
>>
>> True. But look what happens to Labour leaders who speak with honesty and
>> humility.
>>
>I cannot at this moment recall one who ever did?

It's probably dementia.

Why the question mark?

[alan_m]

On 29/09/2021 13:26, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician
>
>

I'm sure that I will get my moon on a stick if I vote Labour in the next
election.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 29/09/2021 18:49, alan_m wrote:
> On 29/09/2021 13:26, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
>> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician
>>
>>
>
> I'm sure that I will get my moon on a stick if I vote Labour in the next
> election.
>

LOL!


--
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14

[John Rumm]

As deluded as Corbyn, but without the charisma!


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[newshound]

On 29/09/2021 14:16, Scott wrote:

Clement Atlee would be a better example.

[Scott]

On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 20:07:25 +0100, John Rumm
<see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:

>On 29/09/2021 14:16, Scott wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:14:27 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 29/09/2021 14:09, Roger Hayter wrote:
>>>> On 29 Sep 2021 at 13:26:20 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
>>>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
>>>>> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician
>>>>
>>>> True. But look what happens to Labour leaders who speak with honesty and
>>>> humility.
>>>>
>>> I cannot at this moment recall one who ever did?
>>
>> Michael Foot?
>
>As deluded as Corbyn, but without the charisma!

Does the word 'honesty' not relate to a person's own beliefs?

[Scott]

Before my time, so not possible to 'recall' :-)

[newshound]

On 29/09/2021 16:04, Tim Streater wrote:

> If Starmer was serious about Labour being a viable alternative, he'd get rid
> of the Fascist Labour tendency such as Jezza, Rayner, and the rest of them,
> and their adherent activists. Camp directly on LibDem territory and split the
> LibDems into their two components, namely the extreme leftists who he could
> hoover up, and the former tories who would either give up, or join the Tories
> due to having nowhere else to go, and destabilise the Tories (who are getting
> an easy ride at present). He'd have to dump all the woke bollocks too, as it
> won't have gone unnoticed amongst women that the Tories are the only party
> supporting women's rights (safe spaces, women's prisons, etc) at the moment.
>

Blair had the right idea, if he hadn't screwed up over Iraq / Afghanistan.

I think we will have Conservative governments for the rest of my
lifetime. I don't quite understand why the LibDems have such low public
standing, but essentially they and Labour are always going to split the
liberal/centrist and social democrat type vote. Especially since the
Scots jumped ship. Even if we eventually have another referendum on PR
that will be Brexit all over again.

[The Natural Philosopher]

"A sort of rag doll, on methedrine¨

I can't remember who said that - can't find it on the net...

"Foot led Labour into the 1983 general election, when the party obtained
its lowest share of the vote since the 1918 general election and the
fewest parliamentary seats it had had at any time since before 1945"

But isn't that pretty much exactly the same as Corbyn?

>>
> Clement Atlee would be a better example.

Before my time.

"Attlee was born into an upper-middle-class family, the son of a wealthy
London solicitor. After attending the public school Haileybury College
and the University of Oxford, he practised as a barrister. The volunteer
work he carried out in London's East End exposed him to poverty and his
political views shifted leftwards thereafter. He joined the Independent
Labour Party, gave up his legal career, and began lecturing at the
London School of Economics"

So the first champagne socialist then...managed to completely ruin the
country post WWII and oversee the dismantling of the Empire. By 1955 the
Tories were back in and labour were out for nearly a generation until
the dreadful Wilson arrived to wreck the country all over again.

It would seem that really it doesn't matter whether labour leaders are
sincere or not, they always make a godawful mess.

--
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the
other is to refuse to believe what is true.”

—Soren Kierkegaard

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 29/09/2021 20:20, newshound wrote:
> On 29/09/2021 16:04, Tim Streater wrote:
>> On 29 Sep 2021 at 14:09:03 BST, Roger Hayter <ro...@hayter.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 29 Sep 2021 at 13:26:20 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
>>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat
>>>> turds delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed
>>>> politician
>>>
>>> True. But look what happens to Labour leaders who speak with
>>> honesty and humility.
>>
>> If Starmer was serious about Labour being a viable alternative,
>> he'd get rid of the Fascist Labour tendency such as Jezza, Rayner,
>> and the rest of them, and their adherent activists. Camp directly
>> on LibDem territory and split the LibDems into their two
>> components, namely the extreme leftists who he could hoover up, and
>> the former tories who would either give up, or join the Tories due
>> to having nowhere else to go, and destabilise the Tories (who are
>> getting an easy ride at present). He'd have to dump all the woke
>> bollocks too, as it won't have gone unnoticed amongst women that
>> the Tories are the only party supporting women's rights (safe
>> spaces, women's prisons, etc) at the moment.
>>
>
> Blair had the right idea, if he hadn't screwed up over Iraq /
> Afghanistan.
>

Blair was the single most destructive prime minister this country has
ever seen.

He destroyed the housing market, he destroyed education, he destroyed
Iraq, he squandered North Sea Oil and sold off the gold reserves. While
lining his pockets and introducing the woke politically correct
moralising cultural destruction we are battling with today.

And blaming it all on Thatcher.

> I think we will have Conservative governments for the rest of my
> lifetime. I don't quite understand why the LibDems have such low
> public standing, but essentially they and Labour are always going to
> split the liberal/centrist and social democrat type vote. Especially
> since the Scots jumped ship. Even if we eventually have another
> referendum on PR that will be Brexit all over again.

The problem is the tories have now moved further left than even Blair.
And fully absorbed the woke narrative to the point where Labour has no
where to go but communism.

What we need is a conservative party, of the centre right

Because the tories ain't it.


--
“I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the
greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most
obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of
conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which
they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by
thread, into the fabric of their lives.”

― Leo Tolstoy

[williamwright]

On 29/09/2021 17:04, R Souls wrote:
>> I cannot at this moment recall one who ever did?

>

> Why the question mark?

It means, "Can you?"

Bill

[newshound]

On 29/09/2021 20:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 29/09/2021 20:13, newshound wrote:

>
> So the first champagne socialist then...managed to completely ruin the
> country post WWII

Never used the NHS then?

[John Rumm]

Does rather depend on how "post truth" we are... If asked "what colour
is the sky?" is "I believe the sky is green" a truthful answer?

Does belief in a Marxist ideology that allows the confiscation of
someone's personal property make state sponsored theft "honest"?

[The Natural Philosopher]

I stand by my point. The NHS is good healthcare, but the cost is about
three times higher than it should bn.
Ruined the country.,..


--
Renewable energy: Expensive solutions that don't work to a problem that
doesn't exist instituted by self legalising protection rackets that
don't protect, masquerading as public servants who don't serve the public.

[Scott]

On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 21:08:31 +0100, John Rumm

<see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:

>On 29/09/2021 20:15, Scott wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 20:07:25 +0100, John Rumm
>> <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>>
>>> On 29/09/2021 14:16, Scott wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:14:27 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
>>>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 29/09/2021 14:09, Roger Hayter wrote:
>>>>>> On 29 Sep 2021 at 13:26:20 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
>>>>>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
>>>>>>> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician
>>>>>>
>>>>>> True. But look what happens to Labour leaders who speak with honesty and
>>>>>> humility.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I cannot at this moment recall one who ever did?
>>>>
>>>> Michael Foot?
>>>
>>> As deluded as Corbyn, but without the charisma!
>>
>> Does the word 'honesty' not relate to a person's own beliefs?
>
>Does rather depend on how "post truth" we are... If asked "what colour
>is the sky?" is "I believe the sky is green" a truthful answer?

Could be if the person were colour blind.

>
>Does belief in a Marxist ideology that allows the confiscation of
>someone's personal property make state sponsored theft "honest"?

I wasn't saying that. I was saying if the told the audience what his
beliefs were, rather than what the audience wanted to hear, would this
not amount to 'honesty'?

[John Brown]

Roger Hayter <ro...@hayter.org> wrote

Which one has ever done that ?

[John Brown]

Scott <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote

Never saw any humility from him. And while he was certainly
honest about what he would do, the voters decided that they
weren't interested in any of that and that's why he was flushed.

[Peeler]

On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 07:25:18 +1000, John Brown, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID: <g4t0jt...@mid.individual.net>

[Peeler]

On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 07:22:17 +1000, John Brown, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 87-year-old senile Australian
cretin's pathological trolling:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

[Roger Hayter]

Depends on the question. "Wnat are your personal beliefs?" demands a different
honest answer from "What is your party's policy?", for instance. Most
politicians resolve this problem by having highly elastic personal beliefs;
and often making them available to the highest bidder.



--
Roger Hayter

[Roger Hayter]

On 29 Sep 2021 at 21:08:31 BST, "John Rumm" <see.my.s...@nowhere.null>

wrote:

> On 29/09/2021 20:15, Scott wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 20:07:25 +0100, John Rumm
>> <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>>
>>> On 29/09/2021 14:16, Scott wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:14:27 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
>>>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 29/09/2021 14:09, Roger Hayter wrote:
>>>>>> On 29 Sep 2021 at 13:26:20 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
>>>>>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
>>>>>>> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician
>>>>>>
>>>>>> True. But look what happens to Labour leaders who speak with honesty and
>>>>>> humility.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I cannot at this moment recall one who ever did?
>>>>
>>>> Michael Foot?
>>>
>>> As deluded as Corbyn, but without the charisma!
>>
>> Does the word 'honesty' not relate to a person's own beliefs?
>
> Does rather depend on how "post truth" we are... If asked "what colour
> is the sky?" is "I believe the sky is green" a truthful answer?
>
> Does belief in a Marxist ideology that allows the confiscation of
> someone's personal property make state sponsored theft "honest"?

Seems to have worked for taxes!

--
Roger Hayter

[Bob Eager]

John Smith?



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

[Fredxx]

On 29/09/2021 21:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 29/09/2021 21:07, newshound wrote:
>> On 29/09/2021 20:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 29/09/2021 20:13, newshound wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> So the first champagne socialist then...managed to completely ruin
>>> the country post WWII
>>
>> Never used the NHS then?
>
> I stand by my point. The NHS is good healthcare, but the cost is about
> three times higher than it should bn.
> Ruined the country.,..

Given other countries pay more into their health system, they must be
more ruined than us.

[Fredxx]

Not quite, Thatcher did the most squandering of oil revenue.

> and sold off the gold reserves. While
> lining his pockets and introducing  the woke politically correct
> moralising  cultural destruction we are battling with today.
>
> And blaming it all on Thatcher.

I never understood that Blair privatised industries and government
departments Thatcher didn't want to privatise. He was more right wing
than Thatcher.

>> I think we will have Conservative governments for the rest of my
>> lifetime. I don't quite understand why the LibDems have such low
>> public standing, but essentially they and Labour are always going to
>> split the liberal/centrist and social democrat type vote. Especially
>> since the Scots jumped ship. Even if we eventually have another
>> referendum on PR that will be Brexit all over again.
>
> The problem is the tories have now moved further left than even Blair.
> And fully absorbed the woke narrative to the point where Labour has no
> where to go but communism.
>
> What we need is a conservative party, of the centre right

Or even a Labour one to the right? That is what Kier Starmer is trying
to achieve.

> Because the tories ain't it.

Must be the LibDems then.

[Fredxx]

On 29/09/2021 23:56, Bob Eager wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 07:22:17 +1000, John Brown wrote:
>
>> Roger Hayter <ro...@hayter.org> wrote
>>> On 29 Sep 2021 at 13:26:20 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
>>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
>>>> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician
>>>
>>> True. But look what happens to Labour leaders who speak with honesty
>>> and humility.
>>
>> Which one has ever done that ?
>
> John Smith?

I think he died before he the chance to tell any lies.

[Rod Speed]

newshound <news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote

Honesty, yep, but not humility.

[Rod Speed]

Scott <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote

Not really, its more about honestly stating what you plan to do with an
opposition leader.

Starmer originally claimed he was about unity but now claims
that its actually about winning the next election and that unity
doesn't matter at all anymore. Just another lying politician.

[Rod Speed]

newshound <news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote
> Tim Streater wrote
>> Roger Hayter <ro...@hayter.org> wrote

>>> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote

>>>> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
>>>> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician
>>>
>>> True. But look what happens to Labour leaders who speak with honesty and
>>> humility.
>>
>> If Starmer was serious about Labour being a viable alternative, he'd get
>> rid
>> of the Fascist Labour tendency such as Jezza, Rayner, and the rest of
>> them,
>> and their adherent activists. Camp directly on LibDem territory and split
>> the
>> LibDems into their two components, namely the extreme leftists who he
>> could
>> hoover up, and the former tories who would either give up, or join the
>> Tories
>> due to having nowhere else to go, and destabilise the Tories (who are
>> getting
>> an easy ride at present). He'd have to dump all the woke bollocks too, as
>> it
>> won't have gone unnoticed amongst women that the Tories are the only
>> party
>> supporting women's rights (safe spaces, women's prisons, etc) at the
>> moment.

> Blair had the right idea,

Only in the sense of making Labour electable to govt again.

But that didn’t last very long, tho certainly longer
than any other Labour leader before him.

> if he hadn't screwed up over Iraq / Afghanistan.

The demise of Labour as an electable govt was about a hell of a lot more
than that.

> I think we will have Conservative governments for the rest of my lifetime.

Yeah, looks likely imo.

> I don't quite understand why the LibDems have such low public standing,

I do, they keep flip flopping policy wise.

[John Brown]

That’s very arguable with Atlee particularly. He nationalised vast rafts
of stuff and got the bums rush at the ballot box because of that. Only
managed a single term. Blair did much better than that elections wise.

> He destroyed the housing market, he destroyed education, he destroyed
> Iraq, he squandered North Sea Oil and sold off the gold reserves. While
> lining his pockets and introducing the woke politically correct
> moralising cultural destruction we are battling with today.
>
> And blaming it all on Thatcher.
>
>
>> I think we will have Conservative governments for the rest of my
>> lifetime. I don't quite understand why the LibDems have such low
>> public standing, but essentially they and Labour are always going to
>> split the liberal/centrist and social democrat type vote. Especially
>> since the Scots jumped ship. Even if we eventually have another
>> referendum on PR that will be Brexit all over again.
>
> The problem is the tories have now moved further left than even Blair. And
> fully absorbed the woke narrative to the point where Labour has no where
> to go but communism.
>
> What we need is a conservative party, of the centre right
>
> Because the tories ain't it.

But its less clear how many votes that would get.

[Rod Speed]

Fredxx <fre...@nospam.co.uk> wrote

Plenty of them don’t. And the other problem with comparisons is
demographics.

Tho I don’t buy his claim that you lot are paying 3 times as much as you
should.

[Rod Speed]

Fredxx <fre...@nospam.co.uk> wrote

No he isn't, just not as rabidly left as Corbyn.

>> Because the tories ain't it.
>
> Must be the LibDems then.

Nope, they aren't to the right of the Torys.

And weren't with Cameron either.

[RJH]

Quite. For example, proposing to raise inheritance tax is a, well, proposal.
Nothing dishonest there.

Claims that it would provide more even distribution of wealth and investment
in public services is where the discussion begins. I've not found Corbyn at
all dishonest in that type of discussion.

--
Cheers, Rob

[RJH]

On 29 Sep 2021 at 21:10:19 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"

<t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 29/09/2021 21:07, newshound wrote:
>> On 29/09/2021 20:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 29/09/2021 20:13, newshound wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> So the first champagne socialist then...managed to completely ruin the
>>> country post WWII
>>
>> Never used the NHS then?
>
> I stand by my point. The NHS is good healthcare, but the cost is about
> three times higher than it should bn.
> Ruined the country.,..

Nonsense:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita

And a good chunk of that expenditure is (ironically) paid for by those
consuming the products that lead to people needing treatment in the first
place.

--
Cheers, Rob

[Richard]

Hmmm... pre-lie detector and self destruct?
Install one in every politician.

[Peeler]

On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 10:39:26 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Xeno to trolling senile Rodent:
"You're a sad old man Rod, truly sad."
MID: <id04c3...@mid.individual.net>

[Peeler]

On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 11:51:50 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rodent Speed:
"You can fuck off as you know less than pig shit you sad
little ignorant cunt."
MID: <62dcaae57b421e2b...@haph.org>

[Brian Gaff (Sofa)]

Look he is a politician, they are trained to talk a lot but say very little,
its all part of the job.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:sj1m1c$7lg$4...@dont-email.me...

> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician
>
>

> --
> "If you don't read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
> news paper, you are mis-informed."
>
> Mark Twain

[Peeler]

On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 10:36:20 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Kerr-Mudd,John addressing the auto-contradicting senile cretin:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID: <XnsA97071CF43...@85.214.115.223>

[Peeler]

On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 11:56:28 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"Shit you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID: <ogoa38$pul$1...@news.mixmin.net>

[charles]

In article <irkh0o...@mid.individual.net>,

No, he did get elected for a second term - but it was a very short one.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Peeler]

On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 11:08:36 +1000, John Brown, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

[Peeler]

On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 10:49:10 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?
Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/

[R Souls]

On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 20:58:30 +0100, williamwright
<wrights...@f2s.com> wrote:

>On 29/09/2021 17:04, R Souls wrote:
>>> I cannot at this moment recall one who ever did?
>
>>

>> Why the question mark?
>
>It means, "Can you?"
>
>Bill

Bullshit!

[John Rumm]

I would argue that proposing any idealogical political and financial
system that historically has only ever been implementable with the
assistance of genocide as a "good thing for the country" is being less
than honest!


--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 29/09/2021 23:56, Bob Eager wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 07:22:17 +1000, John Brown wrote:
>
>> Roger Hayter <ro...@hayter.org> wrote
>>> On 29 Sep 2021 at 13:26:20 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
>>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
>>>> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician
>>>
>>> True. But look what happens to Labour leaders who speak with honesty
>>> and humility.
>>
>> Which one has ever done that ?
>
> John Smith?
>
>
>

TBH I have always felt that he would have made a pretty good PM.
But like so many good people, he 'died young' and the cokehead globalist
puppet Bliar shoehorned his way in. The Manchurian Candidate.

And it was all downhill after that.

--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

[JNugent]

On 29/09/2021 01:26 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician

He certainly hasn't got Blair's charisma or Harold Wilson's cosy image.

Other than Attlee in 1945, has any other Labour leader ever had a
convincing win in a GE?

[JNugent]

On 29/09/2021 02:16 pm, Scott wrote:

> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>> On 29/09/2021 14:09, Roger Hayter wrote:

>>> "The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
>>>> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician
>

>>> True. But look what happens to Labour leaders who speak with honesty and
>>> humility.
>

>> I cannot at this moment recall one who ever did?
>
> Michael Foot?

He was the best Labour leader ever.

Can they not find another like him?

[The Natural Philosopher]

he was a lot more subtle about how he ruined the country, that's all.
People didn't notice what woke PC moralising, all go to uni as long as
they dont get an education, stuff the lords with Marxists and the BBC
with Trots and cancel anyone on the immediate right...common purpose and
the politicisation of the Civil service and the destruction of national
identity in favour of Brussels would end up like.

Now we know.

>
>> He destroyed the housing market, he destroyed education, he destroyed
>> Iraq, he squandered North Sea Oil and sold off the gold reserves.
>> While lining his pockets and introducing  the woke politically correct
>> moralising  cultural destruction we are battling with today.
>>
>> And blaming it all on Thatcher.

>>

>> What we need is a conservative party, of the centre right
>>
>> Because the tories ain't it.
>
> But its less clear how many votes that would get.

Its always less clear how many votes any party would get, beyond the
fact that Labour is a busted flush.
I am listening to the news right now. Full of people saying how much
this has advanced labour, while the opinion polls give a massive thumbs
down.

What has really happened is that all the issues the labour party was
founded to address, have been addressed by the tory party, who now
present themselves as Blairite social democrats.

Labour is simply pointless.

They occupy the same ground as the liberal dimmoclots and the left
leaning side of the tory party.

Corbyn was probably right in rebranding them as communists - it was the
onnly ground te Tories haven't grabbed.

The point though is that as the tories have moved left, the right has no
one to vote for at all, once UKIPs leadership destroyed it.

[JNugent]

On 29/09/2021 08:46 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 29/09/2021 20:13, newshound wrote:
>> On 29/09/2021 14:16, Scott wrote:
>>> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>>>> Roger Hayter wrote:
>>>>> "The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>>> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
>>>>>> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician
>
>>>>> True. But look what happens to Labour leaders who speak with
>>>>> honesty and humility.
>

>>>> I cannot at this moment recall one who ever did?

[ ... ]

>> Clement Atlee would be a better example.
>

> Before my time.
>
> "Attlee was born into an upper-middle-class family, the son of a wealthy
> London solicitor. After attending the public school Haileybury College
> and the University of Oxford, he practised as a barrister. The volunteer
> work he carried out in London's East End exposed him to poverty and his
> political views shifted leftwards thereafter. He joined the Independent
> Labour Party, gave up his legal career, and began lecturing at the
> London School of Economics"

>
> So the first champagne socialist then...managed to completely ruin the

> country post WWII and oversee the dismantling of the Empire. By 1955 the
> Tories were back in and labour were out for nearly a generation until
> the dreadful Wilson arrived to wreck the country all over again.

It was actually the latter end of 1951.
>
> It would seem that really it doesn't matter whether labour leaders are
> sincere or not, they always make a godawful mess.

Indeed. Every Labour government has left the country far worse off than
it was when they got elected.

[Rod Speed]

JNugent <jennings&c...@fastmail.fm> wrote

Hard to claim that Blair didn’t. more than Attlee in fact.

[John Brown]

But clearly the voters weren't interested, and that’s what matters.

> The point though is that as the tories have moved left, the right has no
> one to vote for at all, once UKIPs leadership destroyed it.

But the right doesn’t have enough voters to matter.

That's why UKIP never even managed a single seat, let alone one for Nigel.

Even the Greens did better than that.

[JNugent]

On 30/09/2021 08:24 am, charles wrote:

> John Brown <jkib...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote

[ ... ]

>>>> Blair had the right idea, if he hadn't screwed up over Iraq / >>>> Afghanistan.>>>> Blair was the single most destructive prime
minister this country has
>>> ever seen.
>> That‘s very arguable with Atlee particularly. He nationalised vast rafts
>> of stuff and got the bums rush at the ballot box because of that. Only
>> managed a single term.
>
> No, he did get elected for a second term - but it was a very short one.

20 months.

That was longer than Wilson's 1964 win (of sorts) or his February 1974
"win".

[JNugent]

It's a good job that no-one has claimed it then, innit?

[Roger Mills]

On 29/09/2021 14:14, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 29/09/2021 14:09, Roger Hayter wrote:
>> On 29 Sep 2021 at 13:26:20 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"

>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
>>> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician
>>

>> True. But look what happens to Labour leaders who speak with honesty and
>> humility.
>>

> I cannot at this moment recall one who ever did?
>

John Smith - but, sadly, he died, much to Blair's glee!
--
Cheers,
Roger

[The Natural Philosopher]

The tories certainly thought so. a real vote winner.
For the tories,

>
> Can they not find another like him?

We just had Corbyn.

--
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

Mark Twain

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 30/09/2021 11:04, John Brown wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote

>

>> The point though is that as the tories have moved left, the right has
>> no one to vote for at all, once UKIPs leadership destroyed it.
>
> But the right doesn’t have enough voters to matter.

how do you know that?
Most right voters hold their noses and vote tory, because there isnt any
other alternative, or simply don't vote at all.

>
> That's why UKIP never even managed a single seat, let alone one for Nigel.
>

Douglas Carsewell?

> Even the Greens did better than that.

And yet when it was the European elections, they won comprehensively?

And got the Brexit they wanted.

And put in Boris because he was the only politician prepared to deliver it.

I've canvassed for UKIP.

Most people were chary of putting them in at the national level, but
were very happy to have them as local councillors, where they actually
worked for the community - unlike the major parties - and were happy to
have them in Brussels,. because as people who were clued up in matters
EU, they realised that nothing that happened in the European parliament
was of any importance whatsoever.

But when it came to running the country, they stuck to the tories,
because they are marginally more competent than the other parties and
they didn't rate the experience of UKIP candidates.

Then UKIP destroyed itself as the old guard NEC refused to make it an
electable party and disappeared up their rear orifices. And it lost all
its grass root members.

There is a massive vacuum that the Reform party should be filling, but
they simply aren't making the effort.

Boris has delivered a sort of Brexit, although the job is not done. Once
it is, his failure to combat woke, his failure to combat eco bollox, and
his failure to deliver a coherent vision for a post Covid post Brexit
world, puts him as really no better than Starmer.


--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

[Jim Jackson]

On 2021-09-30, John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>
> I would argue that proposing any idealogical political and financial
> system that historically has only ever been implementable with the
> assistance of genocide as a "good thing for the country" is being less
> than honest!
>

Errrr. Is that what the Labour Gov did after WWII?
You are knocking down a strawman. The labour party has never been Marxist.

[Andrew]

But it has always been a smokescreen of 'useful idiots' within which
the Marxists and all the other nutters can hide (and take over all the
local party operations).

[Andrew]

On 29/09/2021 21:07, newshound wrote:
> On 29/09/2021 20:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>> On 29/09/2021 20:13, newshound wrote:
>
>>
>> So the first champagne socialist then...managed to completely ruin the
>> country post WWII
>

> Never used the NHS then?

Initially paid for with a humungous loan from the US taxpayer, who
don't have 'free' healthcare. Ever since, it has been funded by
borrowing, virtually every year to make up the difference between
taxes collected and money spent. All done so that the British can
continue with their delusion that 'we have the best health system in
world'.

[Andrew]

On 30/09/2021 00:30, Fredxx wrote:

> On 29/09/2021 21:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 29/09/2021 21:07, newshound wrote:
>>> On 29/09/2021 20:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 29/09/2021 20:13, newshound wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> So the first champagne socialist then...managed to completely ruin
>>>> the country post WWII
>>>
>>> Never used the NHS then?
>>

>> I stand by my point. The NHS is good healthcare, but the cost is about
>> three times higher than it should bn.
>> Ruined the country.,..
>
> Given other countries pay more into their health system, they must be
> more ruined than us.

No other country has a 'free' healthcare model like the NHS. Germany
got rid of its version of the NHS over 20 years ago and replaced it with
a insurance-based system on top of higher taxes. Average tax rates in
Germany are about 47%, while here is is under 30%. You get what you pay
for. But remember that over the last 20 years Germany has built up a
surplus of 2 trillion euros, while we have built up a DEBT of
£2 trillion, most of which is down to the NHS.

[Max Demian]

On 29/09/2021 20:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> "Attlee was born into an upper-middle-class family, the son of a wealthy
> London solicitor. After attending the public school Haileybury College
> and the University of Oxford, he practised as a barrister. The volunteer
> work he carried out in London's East End exposed him to poverty and his
> political views shifted leftwards thereafter. He joined the Independent
> Labour Party, gave up his legal career, and began lecturing at the
> London School of Economics"
>

> So the first champagne socialist then...managed to completely ruin the

> country post WWII and oversee the dismantling of the Empire. By 1955 the
> Tories were back in and labour were out for nearly a generation until
> the dreadful Wilson arrived to wreck the country all over again.
>

> It would seem that really it doesn't matter whether labour leaders are
> sincere or not, they always make a godawful mess.

Atlee insisted that we needed nukes, but allowed the Yanks to have
ultimate control over what we did with them.

--
Max Demian

[Andrew]

On 30/09/2021 12:57, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 30/09/2021 11:04, John Brown wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote
>
>>
>>> The point though is that as the tories have moved left, the right has
>>> no one to vote for at all, once UKIPs leadership destroyed it.
>>
>> But the right doesn’t have enough voters to matter.
>
> how do you know that?
> Most right voters hold their noses and vote tory, because there isnt any
> other alternative, or simply don't vote at all.
>
>>
>> That's why UKIP never even managed a single seat, let alone one for
>> Nigel.
>>
> Douglas Carsewell?
>
>> Even the Greens did better than that.
>
> And yet when it was the European elections, they won comprehensively?
>

ROFL. Only the UKIP nutters and few other people bothered to vote.

[John Rumm]

On 30/09/2021 13:17, Jim Jackson wrote:

The party as a whole, perhaps not. However Corbyn (McDonald and various
out high profile people on the left of the party) had publicly declared
they are Marxists on many occasions.

[JNugent]

On 30/09/2021 12:40 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 30/09/2021 10:42, JNugent wrote:
>> On 29/09/2021 02:16 pm, Scott wrote:
>>
>>> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 29/09/2021 14:09, Roger Hayter wrote:
>>>>> "The Natural Philosopher" <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
>>>>>> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician
>>>
>>>>> True. But look what happens to Labour leaders who speak with
>>>>> honesty and
>>>>> humility.
>>>
>>>> I cannot at this moment recall one who ever did?
>>>
>>> Michael Foot?
>>
>> He was the best Labour leader ever.
> The tories certainly thought so. a real vote winner.
> For the tories,
>
>>
>> Can they not find another like him?
>
> We just  had Corbyn.

He was no Michael Foot!

[JNugent]

On 30/09/2021 12:57 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 30/09/2021 11:04, John Brown wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote
>
>>> The point though is that as the tories have moved left, the right has
>>> no one to vote for at all, once UKIPs leadership destroyed it.
>
>> But the right doesn’t have enough voters to matter.
>
> how do you know that?
> Most right voters hold their noses and vote tory, because there isnt any
> other alternative, or simply don't vote at all.
>
>> That's why UKIP never even managed a single seat, let alone one for
>> Nigel.
>
> Douglas Carsewell?

He and Mark Reckless never managed to win a seat for UKIP. To be fair,
they didn't even try.

They were both sitting Conservative MPs who defected to UKIP. They each
won a by-election they called, but never won a seat from a sitting MP of
another party (as UKIP) and both failed to hold the seats at the next
General Election.

[Peeler]

On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 20:04:52 +1000, John Brown, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>


--

John addressing the nym-shifting senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID: <f9056fe6-1479-40ff...@googlegroups.com>

[Peeler]

On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 19:58:04 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

Marland revealing the senile sociopath's pathology:
"You have mentioned Alexa in a couple of threads recently, it is not a real
woman you know even if it is the only thing with a female name that stays
around around while you talk it to it.
Poor sad git who has to resort to Usenet and electronic devices for any
interaction as all real people run a mile to get away from you boring them
to death."
MID: <gfkt3m...@mid.individual.net>

[R D S]

On 29/09/2021 14:09, Roger Hayter wrote:

> On 29 Sep 2021 at 13:26:20 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"

> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
>> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician
>
> True. But look what happens to Labour leaders who speak with honesty and
> humility.
>

Yeah, I felt as if I could have coped with Gordon Brown (personality wise).

[whisky-dave]

On Wednesday, 29 September 2021 at 21:08:34 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:
> On 29/09/2021 20:15, Scott wrote:
> > On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 20:07:25 +0100, John Rumm

> > <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> >
> >> On 29/09/2021 14:16, Scott wrote:

> >>> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:14:27 +0100, The Natural Philosopher

> >>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 29/09/2021 14:09, Roger Hayter wrote:
> >>>>> On 29 Sep 2021 at 13:26:20 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
> >>>>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
> >>>>>> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician
> >>>>>
> >>>>> True. But look what happens to Labour leaders who speak with honesty and
> >>>>> humility.
> >>>>>

> >>>> I cannot at this moment recall one who ever did?
> >>>
> >>> Michael Foot?
> >>

> >> As deluded as Corbyn, but without the charisma!
> >
> > Does the word 'honesty' not relate to a person's own beliefs?
> Does rather depend on how "post truth" we are... If asked "what colour
> is the sky?" is "I believe the sky is green" a truthful answer?

Only if yuo believe it is, as in you;re blind and have been told a lie.
Anyway the sky doesn't have a colour, it;s mostly clear and coloured by the diffraction of light.
You cna get the 'northen lights' to make it look green then it is green.
It can look black with little white dots too.
So the sky doesn;t have a fixed colour.

> Does belief in a Marxist ideology that allows the confiscation of
> someone's personal property make state sponsored theft "honest"?

Only if you voted for it ;-)

[whisky-dave]

On Thursday, 30 September 2021 at 05:16:41 UTC+1, RJH wrote:
> On 29 Sep 2021 at 21:47:24 BST, "Scott" <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 21:08:31 +0100, John Rumm

> > <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> >
> >> On 29/09/2021 20:15, Scott wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 20:07:25 +0100, John Rumm
> >>> <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 29/09/2021 14:16, Scott wrote:
> >>>>> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 14:14:27 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
> >>>>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 29/09/2021 14:09, Roger Hayter wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 29 Sep 2021 at 13:26:20 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"
> >>>>>>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
> >>>>>>>> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> True. But look what happens to Labour leaders who speak with honesty and
> >>>>>>> humility.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> I cannot at this moment recall one who ever did?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Michael Foot?
> >>>>
> >>>> As deluded as Corbyn, but without the charisma!
> >>>
> >>> Does the word 'honesty' not relate to a person's own beliefs?
> >>
> >> Does rather depend on how "post truth" we are... If asked "what colour
> >> is the sky?" is "I believe the sky is green" a truthful answer?
> >

> > Could be if the person were colour blind.

> >>
> >> Does belief in a Marxist ideology that allows the confiscation of
> >> someone's personal property make state sponsored theft "honest"?
> >

> > I wasn't saying that. I was saying if the told the audience what his
> > beliefs were, rather than what the audience wanted to hear, would this
> > not amount to 'honesty'?
> Quite. For example, proposing to raise inheritance tax is a, well, proposal.
> Nothing dishonest there.
>
> Claims that it would provide more even distribution of wealth and investment
> in public services is where the discussion begins. I've not found Corbyn at
> all dishonest in that type of discussion.

Dishonest or just plain wrong. ?

I remember him (JC) saying he'd take £50b for the WASPI insurance thing from reserve funds.
I typeds in what are the UK reserbve funds into google and it said £13b

What sport of idiot claims he can take 50b from a pot containing just 13b .

One that should at least know how much a govenrment has in reserves before he even thinks of becoming leader.


>
> --
> Cheers, Rob

[whisky-dave]

You mean one that's been dead for 20+ years or one that's been brain dead for 20+ years
Plenty of those to choose from in politics from all parties

[Jim Jackson]

On 2021-09-30, John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> On 30/09/2021 13:17, Jim Jackson wrote:
>> On 2021-09-30, John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>>>
>>> I would argue that proposing any idealogical political and financial
>>> system that historically has only ever been implementable with the
>>> assistance of genocide as a "good thing for the country" is being less
>>> than honest!
>>>
>>
>> Errrr. Is that what the Labour Gov did after WWII?
>> You are knocking down a strawman. The labour party has never been Marxist.
>
> The party as a whole, perhaps not. However Corbyn (McDonald and various
> out high profile people on the left of the party) had publicly declared
> they are Marxists on many occasions.

Care to give references?

[Rod Speed]

JNugent <jennings&c...@fastmail.fm> wrote

Blair's were just as convincing as Attlee's and his govt lasted much longer.

[John Brown]

The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote
> On 30/09/2021 11:04, John Brown wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote
>
>>
>>> The point though is that as the tories have moved left, the right has no
>>> one to vote for at all, once UKIPs leadership destroyed it.
>>
>> But the right doesn’t have enough voters to matter.
>
> how do you know that?

The result UKIP got in general elections.

> Most right voters hold their noses and vote tory, because there isnt any
> other alternative,

There was when UKIP hadn't imploded spectacularly.

> or simply don't vote at all.

>> That's why UKIP never even managed a single seat, let alone one for
>> Nigel.

> Douglas Carsewell?

He was a Tory renegade whose electorate would have kept
voting for him regardless of which party he was part of.

>> Even the Greens did better than that.

> And yet when it was the European elections, they won comprehensively?

Different voting system, not relevant to a party forming govt in the UK.

> And got the Brexit they wanted.

But couldn’t even manage a seat in the UK parliament for Nigel.

> And put in Boris because he was the only politician prepared to deliver
> it.
>
> I've canvassed for UKIP.
>
> Most people were chary of putting them in at the national level, but were
> very happy to have them as local councillors, where they actually worked
> for the community - unlike the major parties - and were happy to have them
> in Brussels,. because as people who were clued up in matters EU, they
> realised that nothing that happened in the European parliament was of any
> importance whatsoever.
>
> But when it came to running the country, they stuck to the tories, because
> they are marginally more competent than the other parties

Vastly more competent than Labour in fact, the only real alternative.

> and they didn't rate the experience of UKIP candidates.

It wasn’t just the experience, UKIP was always a single issue party,
regardless of what Nigel tried to claim as UKIP imploded spectacularly.

> Then UKIP destroyed itself as the old guard NEC refused to make it an
> electable party

It never was anything like that in the UK.

and disappeared up their rear orifices. And it lost all
> its grass root members.
>
> There is a massive vacuum that the Reform party should be filling, but
> they simply aren't making the effort.

And even if they did, hardly anyone would vote for them.

> Boris has delivered a sort of Brexit, although the job is not done. Once
> it is, his failure to combat woke, his failure to combat eco bollox, and
> his failure to deliver a coherent vision for a post Covid post Brexit
> world, puts him as really no better than Starmer.

The voters feel otherwise.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 1 Oct 2021 02:32:31 +1000, John Brown, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

[Peeler]

On Fri, 1 Oct 2021 02:15:56 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent

Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--

John addressing the senile Australian pest:

[John Brown]

Andrew <Andrew9...@mybtinternet.com> wrote

> On 30/09/2021 00:30, Fredxx wrote:
>> On 29/09/2021 21:10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 29/09/2021 21:07, newshound wrote:
>>>> On 29/09/2021 20:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 29/09/2021 20:13, newshound wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So the first champagne socialist then...managed to completely ruin the
>>>>> country post WWII
>>>>
>>>> Never used the NHS then?
>>>
>>> I stand by my point. The NHS is good healthcare, but the cost is about
>>> three times higher than it should bn.
>>> Ruined the country.,..
>>
>> Given other countries pay more into their health system, they must be
>> more ruined than us.
>
> No other country has a 'free' healthcare model like the NHS. Germany
> got rid of its version of the NHS over 20 years ago and replaced it with
> a insurance-based system on top of higher taxes.

And the swiss have always had an insurance system and it is by
far the most expensive in the entire world apart from the USA,

Average tax rates in
> Germany are about 47%, while here is is under 30%.

That’s a lousy measure of the cost of the health care system.

You get what you pay
> for.

In fact you don’t. The swiss system isn't noticeably better than the NHS and
the US system is much worse on a variety of measures that matter like
infant mortality and years in good health which is what health care is
about.

But remember that over the last 20 years Germany has built up a
> surplus of 2 trillion euros,

But for a completely different reason, much higher tax rates and
one of the last really viable manufacturing industries in europe
and an effective devaluation due to the euro. Nothing to do with
how they do their health care system.

while we have built up a DEBT of
> £2 trillion, most of which is down to the NHS.

That last is bullshit.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 1 Oct 2021 03:03:46 +1000, John Brown, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

03:03 in Australia? AGAIN? You sociopathic swine really know NO SHAME AT
ALL! <tsk>

--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID: <g4t0jt...@mid.individual.net>

[The Natural Philosopher]

No, we was even more stupid and unelectable.

--
“But what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!”

Mary Wollstonecraft

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 30/09/2021 14:33, JNugent wrote:
> He and Mark Reckless never managed to win a seat for UKIP. To be fair,
> they didn't even try.
>
> They were both sitting Conservative MPs who defected to UKIP. They each
> won a by-election they called

So both won seats for UKIP


--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 30/09/2021 17:32, John Brown wrote:
>
>> Boris has delivered a sort of Brexit, although the job is not done.
>> Once it is, his failure to combat woke, his failure to combat eco
>> bollox, and his failure to deliver a coherent vision for a post Covid
>> post Brexit world, puts him as really no better than Starmer.
>
> The voters feel otherwise.
>

But none of the above has happened. Its not what the voters feel now,
but a few years up the line.

what about "once it is" did you not understand?

[John Brown]

The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote

> On 30/09/2021 14:33, JNugent wrote:

>> He and Mark Reckless never managed to win a seat for UKIP. To be fair,
>> they didn't even try.
>>
>> They were both sitting Conservative MPs who defected to UKIP. They each
>> won a by-election they called
>
> So both won seats for UKIP

Not really, both electorates were voting for a person, not a party.

[John Brown]

The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote

> On 30/09/2021 17:32, John Brown wrote:
>>
>>> Boris has delivered a sort of Brexit, although the job is not done.
>>> Once it is, his failure to combat woke, his failure to combat eco
>>> bollox, and his failure to deliver a coherent vision for a post Covid
>>> post Brexit world, puts him as really no better than Starmer.
>>
>> The voters feel otherwise.
>>
> But none of the above has happened.

Hardly any of the voters vote on those issues.

> Its not what the voters feel now,
> but a few years up the line.

They will have decided that brexit is working fine
and that Boris got it done quite effectively and
that that fool Starmer has nothing to offer and
will have noticed that Labour is still furiously
ripping each others throats out and realise
that if they can't even manage to run the party
they have no chance of doing effective govt.

Starmer will be politically assassinated by his party
after the next general election when he produces
almost as dismal a result as Corbyn did, you watch.

[John Rumm]

On 30/09/2021 16:40, Jim Jackson wrote:
> On 2021-09-30, John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>> On 30/09/2021 13:17, Jim Jackson wrote:
>>> On 2021-09-30, John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I would argue that proposing any idealogical political and financial
>>>> system that historically has only ever been implementable with the
>>>> assistance of genocide as a "good thing for the country" is being less
>>>> than honest!
>>>>
>>>
>>> Errrr. Is that what the Labour Gov did after WWII?
>>> You are knocking down a strawman. The labour party has never been Marxist.
>>
>> The party as a whole, perhaps not. However Corbyn (McDonald and various
>> out high profile people on the left of the party) had publicly declared
>> they are Marxists on many occasions.
>
> Care to give references?

Here is one from the horses mouth/arse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai4OnlSI36A

@ 7:12

(I have seen the same admission in a number of Televised videos as well)

[The Natural Philosopher]

your patronising arrogance astounds. You assertion is clearly based on
bigotry, not data.


--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 1 Oct 2021 04:28:20 +1000, John Brown, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

04:28 in Australia? So you've been up and trolling for OVER TWO HOURS
already, yet AGAIN, you abnormal trolling senile sociopath!

--
Richard addressing senile Rodent Speed:
"Shit you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID: <ogoa38$pul$1...@news.mixmin.net>

[Peeler]

On Fri, 1 Oct 2021 04:34:31 +1000, John Brown, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

[The Natural Philosopher]

On 30/09/2021 19:34, John Brown wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote
>> On 30/09/2021 17:32, John Brown wrote:
>>>
>>>> Boris has delivered a sort of Brexit, although the job is not done.
>>>> Once it is, his failure to combat woke, his failure to combat eco
>>>> bollox, and his failure to deliver a coherent vision for a post
>>>> Covid post Brexit world, puts him as really no better than Starmer.
>>>
>>> The voters feel otherwise.
>>>
>> But none of the above has happened.
>
> Hardly any of the voters vote on those issues.

you should try a bit of door to door canvassing instead of sitting on
your arse. oyouwould be surprised what people vote on

>> Its not what the voters feel now, but a few years up the line.
>
> They will have decided that brexit is working fine

Probably

> and that Boris got it done quite effectively

Possibly

and that that fool Starmer
> has nothing to offer and
> will have noticed that Labour is still furiously
> ripping each others throats out and realise that if they can't even
> manage to run the party
> they have no chance of doing effective govt.

almost certainly

> Starmer will be politically assassinated by his party
> after the next general election when he produces
> almost as dismal a result as Corbyn did, you watch.

Indeed, but that doesn't mean that they will be satisfied with tory lack
of policy and vision

Or not ready to contemplate an alternative, given that labia and starmer
are simply a fucking unelectable pile of wombat turds with no chance of
getting in?

--
“It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established
authorities are wrong.”

― Voltaire, The Age of Louis XIV

[JNugent]

On 30/09/2021 07:11 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 30/09/2021 14:33, JNugent wrote:
>> He and Mark Reckless never managed to win a seat for UKIP. To be fair,
>> they didn't even try.
>>
>> They were both sitting Conservative MPs who defected to UKIP. They
>> each won a by-election they called
>
> So both won seats for UKIP

Only from themselves. And only in by-elections. The electorates were
'avin' a larf. They didn't repeat it at the GE.

[Jim Jackson]

On 2021-09-30, John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
> On 30/09/2021 16:40, Jim Jackson wrote:
>> On 2021-09-30, John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>>> On 30/09/2021 13:17, Jim Jackson wrote:
>>>> On 2021-09-30, John Rumm <see.my.s...@nowhere.null> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I would argue that proposing any idealogical political and financial
>>>>> system that historically has only ever been implementable with the
>>>>> assistance of genocide as a "good thing for the country" is being less
>>>>> than honest!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Errrr. Is that what the Labour Gov did after WWII?
>>>> You are knocking down a strawman. The labour party has never been Marxist.
>>>
>>> The party as a whole, perhaps not. However Corbyn (McDonald and various
>>> out high profile people on the left of the party) had publicly declared
>>> they are Marxists on many occasions.
>>
>> Care to give references?
>
> Here is one from the horses mouth/arse:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai4OnlSI36A
>
> @ 7:12

Have you any for Corbyn? Just curious.

[John Brown]

The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote
> On 30/09/2021 19:34, John Brown wrote:
>> The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote
>>> On 30/09/2021 17:32, John Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Boris has delivered a sort of Brexit, although the job is not done.
>>>>> Once it is, his failure to combat woke, his failure to combat eco
>>>>> bollox, and his failure to deliver a coherent vision for a post Covid
>>>>> post Brexit world, puts him as really no better than Starmer.
>>>>
>>>> The voters feel otherwise.
>>>>
>>> But none of the above has happened.
>>
>> Hardly any of the voters vote on those issues.
>
> you should try a bit of door to door canvassing

I have in fact done just that and also know why those I know have voted too.

instead of sitting on
> your arse. oyouwould be surprised what people vote on

Nope.

>>> Its not what the voters feel now, but a few years up the line.
>>
>> They will have decided that brexit is working fine

> Probably

Certainly given that it is working as well as it could have.

>> and that Boris got it done quite effectively

> Possibly

Certainly given the utter farce May managed.

> and that that fool Starmer
>> has nothing to offer and
>> will have noticed that Labour is still furiously
>> ripping each others throats out and realise that if they can't even
>> manage to run the party
>> they have no chance of doing effective govt.
>
> almost certainly
>
>> Starmer will be politically assassinated by his party
>> after the next general election when he produces
>> almost as dismal a result as Corbyn did, you watch.

> Indeed, but that doesn't mean that they will be satisfied with tory lack
> of policy and vision

Few voters care about stuff like that, particularly when the alternative
is a fool like Starmer who is in fact currently attempting to do that stuff
for Labour but who hasn’t got a hope in hell of getting Labour to buy
his policy and vision. He can't even get them to go back to the previous
approach with how the Labour leader is elected.

Corbyn also managed to present quite a bit of proposed policy
and vision but the voters clearly weren't buying that.

Boris didn’t bother with the exception of getting brexit done and
the voters clearly didn’t give a damn and elected his govt anyway.

> Or not ready to contemplate an alternative, given that labia and starmer
> are simply a fucking unelectable pile of wombat turds with no chance of
> getting in?

The Tories realise that they don’t need policy and vision. And they are
right about that.

[Peeler]

On Fri, 1 Oct 2021 07:11:44 +1000, John Brown, better known as cantankerous

trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:


<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

07:11 am in Australia, you perverted senile swine? So you've been up and
trolling for almost 5 hours already, IOW all night long, yet again, you
disgusting senile trolling swine!

--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rodent Speed:
"You can fuck off as you know less than pig shit you sad
little ignorant cunt."
MID: <62dcaae57b421e2b...@haph.org>

[John Rumm]

I have seen similar, but don't have the link (nor the desire to watch
any great quantity of him to find one!)

IIRC back in 2015 when the Communist part of Great Britain were urging
people to pay the £3 and join labour, so they could vote for JC to
become leader, he was interviewed by Andrew Marr[1], and repeatedly
dodged the question as to whether he considered himself a Marxist.
(although he did describe Marx's philosophy as "absolutely fascinating"

[1] Given Marr's own thinly disguised political leanings, it was never
going to me a robust interview.

[Simon]

On Wednesday, September 29, 2021 at 8:20:50 PM UTC+1, newshound wrote:
> On 29/09/2021 16:04, Tim Streater wrote:
> > On 29 Sep 2021 at 14:09:03 BST, Roger Hayter <ro...@hayter.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On 29 Sep 2021 at 13:26:20 BST, "The Natural Philosopher"

> >> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>> cliché ridden pile of self righteous moralising steaming wombat turds
> >>> delivered with all the insincerity of a true failed politician
> >>
> >> True. But look what happens to Labour leaders who speak with honesty and
> >> humility.
> >

> > If Starmer was serious about Labour being a viable alternative, he'd get rid
> > of the Fascist Labour tendency such as Jezza, Rayner, and the rest of them,
> > and their adherent activists. Camp directly on LibDem territory and split the
> > LibDems into their two components, namely the extreme leftists who he could
> > hoover up, and the former tories who would either give up, or join the Tories
> > due to having nowhere else to go, and destabilise the Tories (who are getting
> > an easy ride at present). He'd have to dump all the woke bollocks too, as it
> > won't have gone unnoticed amongst women that the Tories are the only party
> > supporting women's rights (safe spaces, women's prisons, etc) at the moment.
> >
>
> Blair had the right idea, if he hadn't screwed up over Iraq / Afghanistan.
>
> I think we will have Conservative governments for the rest of my
> lifetime. I don't quite understand why the LibDems have such low public
> standing, but essentially they and Labour are always going to split the
> liberal/centrist and social democrat type vote. Especially since the
> Scots jumped ship. Even if we eventually have another referendum on PR
> that will be Brexit all over again.
I doubt we will have a conservative government for the next ten years. Tactical voting can alleviate the inherent unrepresentative character of the FPTP system. Lib Dems are predicted to win around 40 seats if an election was held tomorrow, which would be thanks in the main to an anti tory tactical voting alliance. As for the scottish, Labour are now winning there, after SNP losses recently show. Fuck the tories. Vote anyone but tory. Reform UK, Greens, SNP, Lib Dems etc, if it keeps a tory out, hold your nose and vote.

[Rod Speed]

Can't see that unless you are about to die soon.

The voters are absolutely notorious for sacking the current
govt when they don't like the current economic situation,
even if the current econonomic situation has nothing to do
with anything the current govt has done, or failed to do.

Bet that happens again, unless Labor implodes very spectacularly indeed.

> I don't quite understand why the LibDems have such low public standing,

Basically because they are completely irrelevant
and have absolutely nothing to offer policy wise.

That's why they did so badly when they we in a joint govt with Cameron.

>> but essentially they and Labour are always going to split the
>> liberal/centrist and social democrat type vote. Especially since the
>> Scots jumped ship. Even if we eventually have another referendum on PR
>> that will be Brexit all over again.

> I doubt we will have a conservative government for the next ten years.

Only Blair/Brown managed that, and Starmer is nothing even remotely like
those two.

> Tactical voting can alleviate the inherent unrepresentativecharacter of
> the FPTP system. Lib Dems are predicted towin around 40 seats if an
> election was held tomorrow,

And NOT ONE of those predictions has ever turned out to be correct.

> which would be thanks in the main toan anti tory tactical voting
> alliance.

Fantasy.

> As for the scottish, Labour are now winningthere, after SNP losses
> recently show.

Yes, the SNP has imploded spectacularly and
is unlikely to be able to recover from that.

> Fuck the tories. Vote anyone but tory.

UK voters don't vote like that.

> Reform UK, Greens, SNP, Lib Dems etc, ifit keeps a tory out, hold your
> nose and vote.

UK voters don't vote like that.

[Peeler]

On Tue, 12 Dec 2023 11:13:08 +1100, Rod Speedcantankerous trolling geezer

Rodent Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
R Souls addressing the senile Australian cretin's "personalized" idiotic
spelling:
"Learn to spell, imbecile. And while you're about it learn to mind your
own business as well."
MID: <eohtkhl27bo4osjlu...@4ax.com>