Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Best roof box pulley system design....
208 views
Skip to first unread message
Lee Nowell
May 12, 2014, 9:20:23 AM5/12/14
to
Hi All,
I have recently purchased a roof box and bars to store our camping gear ready for the next camping trip. I have a "cunning" idea that I could suspend the roof box (with rails attached) from the garage ceiling filled with our camping gear. When we go camping, I "simply" reverse the car into the garage, lower the box/ rails onto the car and away we go....
I am now thinking about the pulley design and it seems a little less straight forward than I anticipated (either that or I am making it overly complex :) ) Thought process so far....
1. Ideally I would want 1 rope to pull it up so.... create a 4 way harness to slip over each end of the roof rails, put one pulley on the ceiling and hoist it up. Seemed ideal until I thought about it having no stability and would wave around the ceiling.
2. Enhance the above by having 2 pulleys and a 2 point harness (one each side). This should stop the swaying about. I then thought.... unless the box is evenly weighted, it would be difficult to control - also it would have 2 ropes (not the end of the world)
3. Have 4 pulleys on the ceiling with 4 ropes (one for each "corner")... Should solve the stability problem but then will have 4 ropes and therefore harder to control......
4. Have 4 pulleys on the ceiling and 4 on each corner of the box. This way I can run a single rope around these pulleys (running ceiling to platform and back at each corner). This way I get 1 rope but should have the stability :) However, this seems a bit overkill.... also, I *think* I would get an 8:1 ratio on pull length v's height lift so..... a 2m lift would require 16m of pull length!
So... this is as far as I could get....
Surely there is a better solution? Any one have any cunning ideas?
Thanks
Lee.
I have recently purchased a roof box and bars to store our camping gear ready for the next camping trip. I have a "cunning" idea that I could suspend the roof box (with rails attached) from the garage ceiling filled with our camping gear. When we go camping, I "simply" reverse the car into the garage, lower the box/ rails onto the car and away we go....
I am now thinking about the pulley design and it seems a little less straight forward than I anticipated (either that or I am making it overly complex :) ) Thought process so far....
1. Ideally I would want 1 rope to pull it up so.... create a 4 way harness to slip over each end of the roof rails, put one pulley on the ceiling and hoist it up. Seemed ideal until I thought about it having no stability and would wave around the ceiling.
2. Enhance the above by having 2 pulleys and a 2 point harness (one each side). This should stop the swaying about. I then thought.... unless the box is evenly weighted, it would be difficult to control - also it would have 2 ropes (not the end of the world)
3. Have 4 pulleys on the ceiling with 4 ropes (one for each "corner")... Should solve the stability problem but then will have 4 ropes and therefore harder to control......
4. Have 4 pulleys on the ceiling and 4 on each corner of the box. This way I can run a single rope around these pulleys (running ceiling to platform and back at each corner). This way I get 1 rope but should have the stability :) However, this seems a bit overkill.... also, I *think* I would get an 8:1 ratio on pull length v's height lift so..... a 2m lift would require 16m of pull length!
So... this is as far as I could get....
Surely there is a better solution? Any one have any cunning ideas?
Thanks
Lee.
newshound
May 12, 2014, 9:30:23 AM5/12/14
to
separate pulleys. You should be able to manage that with a second
person. You need a conveniently located cleat for each rope. And make
the ropes long enough to be able to lower the whole thing to the floor.
That way you can load the box conveniently, also add or remove stuff
selectively, clean it out, etc. If cash is no object, have four small
electric hoists (not particularly expensive).
Andrew Gabriel
May 12, 2014, 10:17:14 AM5/12/14
to
In article <34a75999-524a-4af6...@googlegroups.com>,
You can buy bicycle hoists for storing bikes up at ceiling height.
Maybe a couple of those could be used?
I sometimes see them cheap or on special offer.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
Maybe a couple of those could be used?
I sometimes see them cheap or on special offer.
--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
michael adams
May 12, 2014, 10:28:05 AM5/12/14
to
"Lee Nowell" <leen...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:34a75999-524a-4af6...@googlegroups.com...
4 ropes, 4 swivel pulleys 1 above each corner. 4 swivel pulleys at the same
height grouped together above a point in the middle of a long wall most
convenient to you. Set a cleat hook close to the floor on the wall underneath
the four grouped pulleys, (so as to allow you to lower the thing to the floor)
and feed all four ropes through each of its own two pulleys, binding all four
ropes together at some point past the cleat hook. (Binding them together
higher up would prevent them going through the four pulleys above)
There's probably something seriously wrong with such a set-up, but
my brain has started to hurt, trying to visualise what it is.
michael adams
...
.
Robin
May 12, 2014, 10:33:29 AM5/12/14
to
> Any one have any cunning ideas?
>
I can only think of rodents licking their lips at their ideas for those
>
ropes :)
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid
Mike Barnes
May 12, 2014, 10:47:51 AM5/12/14
to
>
> 4 ropes, 4 swivel pulleys 1 above each corner. 4 swivel pulleys at the same
> height grouped together above a point in the middle of a long wall most
> convenient to you. Set a cleat hook close to the floor on the wall underneath
> the four grouped pulleys, (so as to allow you to lower the thing to the floor)
> and feed all four ropes through each of its own two pulleys, binding all four
> ropes together at some point past the cleat hook. (Binding them together
> higher up would prevent them going through the four pulleys above)
That gets my vote except that I'd bind all four ropes individually to a
> 4 ropes, 4 swivel pulleys 1 above each corner. 4 swivel pulleys at the same
> height grouped together above a point in the middle of a long wall most
> convenient to you. Set a cleat hook close to the floor on the wall underneath
> the four grouped pulleys, (so as to allow you to lower the thing to the floor)
> and feed all four ropes through each of its own two pulleys, binding all four
> ropes together at some point past the cleat hook. (Binding them together
> higher up would prevent them going through the four pulleys above)
metal ring (easier adjustment to correct stretching etc) and run a fifth
rope downwards to pull on. The fifth rope could go round a block and
tackle arrangement to reduce the force required.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
jfflkjfl...@gmail.com
May 12, 2014, 11:12:02 AM5/12/14
to
On Monday, May 12, 2014 3:17:14 PM UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
>
> You can buy bicycle hoists for storing bikes up at ceiling height.
>
> Maybe a couple of those could be used?
>
> I sometimes see them cheap or on special offer.
>
>
I tried that...
>
> You can buy bicycle hoists for storing bikes up at ceiling height.
>
> Maybe a couple of those could be used?
>
> I sometimes see them cheap or on special offer.
>
>
First of all the cord would derail into the gap between pulley and bracket if it wasn't perfectly aligned, and jam.
So I replaced the cord with 6mm polyproylene rope, but that showed that there was so much friction in the pulleys (plain bearings) that one end would go up before the other. If you had the box hooked by the rim it then slid until the hooks reached one end and it fell off with a crash. I tried hooking onto the roog bars, but inevitably I would need the roof bars alone at some point.
Plus there was always the problem of clearing a big enough space on the garage floor to get it down without squashing something.
So I gave up and put a couple of big hook onto the outside wall and use a couple of bits of rope to hoik it up, storing it on edge. Probably not too good for the metal parts to get it rained on all the time but I keep them spry lubed up each time I use it.
This was all for the biggest box you can get - Mont Blanc Vista 540 - it might work for a smaller, lighter box.
Lee Nowell
May 12, 2014, 11:54:33 AM5/12/14
to
Yeah I think the 4 pulley with individual ropes may be the only option.
I guess once you end up with the situation where the 4 ropes can only really be brought together at more or less floor level (due to the issue of being able to lower it to the floor) I guess I might as well stick to pulling the 4 ropes but as Michael suggests via a second set of pulleys directly over the cleat.
I have a half baked thought which I am not sure it will work or is a good/ better idea.....
How about taking the 4 ropes to a central point (say at the top of the wall with the cleat) and securing the ends there such that they are slightly slack when the roof box in on the floor. Now put a 4 way pulley on the ceiling between the point where they are secured and the corner pulleys [not 100% sure this one is actually needed!]. Then put a second 4 way pulley on the ropes between this pulley and where the ropes are finally secured. Tying a rope to this pulley and pulling down, show lift the box? I *think* this would also mean that the 4 ropes would only go half way down the wall?
What do you think?
I guess once you end up with the situation where the 4 ropes can only really be brought together at more or less floor level (due to the issue of being able to lower it to the floor) I guess I might as well stick to pulling the 4 ropes but as Michael suggests via a second set of pulleys directly over the cleat.
I have a half baked thought which I am not sure it will work or is a good/ better idea.....
How about taking the 4 ropes to a central point (say at the top of the wall with the cleat) and securing the ends there such that they are slightly slack when the roof box in on the floor. Now put a 4 way pulley on the ceiling between the point where they are secured and the corner pulleys [not 100% sure this one is actually needed!]. Then put a second 4 way pulley on the ropes between this pulley and where the ropes are finally secured. Tying a rope to this pulley and pulling down, show lift the box? I *think* this would also mean that the 4 ropes would only go half way down the wall?
What do you think?
Mike Barnes
May 12, 2014, 12:18:53 PM5/12/14
to
where one will do. At the earliest opportunity, make a five-way junction
between ropes to the four corners and the rope that you pull on.
I'd go for: ropes from each of the corners vertically to ceiling pulleys
then horizontally to a pulley at the top of the wall (all four of those
close together). With the box on the floor join those four ropes just
below the top-of-wall pulleys to a fifth rope. Take that fifth rope
round a pulley at the bottom of the wall and then to another at the top.
That will give you the full range of movement at a convenient height for
pulling on.
michael adams
May 12, 2014, 12:54:03 PM5/12/14
to
"Mike Barnes" <mikeba...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:btc590...@mid.individual.net...
and run each rope through each of their two pulleys and then as soon as
they're clear of the second grouped pulley, it's at that point they can all be
joined together giving a single rope to pull.
A block and tackle arrangement underneath would also be preferable to
a cleat hook as the latter would presumably need to be uncomfortably close
to the floor to allow enough length of rope to get the box close to the
ceiling, in any case.
michael adams
...
Fredxxx
May 12, 2014, 1:15:04 PM5/12/14
to
On 12/05/2014 14:20, Lee Nowell wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I have recently purchased a roof box and bars to store our camping
> gear ready for the next camping trip. I have a "cunning" idea that I
> could suspend the roof box (with rails attached) from the garage
> ceiling filled with our camping gear. When we go camping, I "simply"
> reverse the car into the garage, lower the box/ rails onto the car
> and away we go....
How about something along these lines:
>
> I have recently purchased a roof box and bars to store our camping
> gear ready for the next camping trip. I have a "cunning" idea that I
> could suspend the roof box (with rails attached) from the garage
> ceiling filled with our camping gear. When we go camping, I "simply"
> reverse the car into the garage, lower the box/ rails onto the car
> and away we go....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-Lath-Victorian-Kitchen-Ceiling-Pulley-Clothes-Airer-Maid-Laundry-Dryer/360508253939
Some come with all the pulleys you need and all you need is a strap
between the hanger and around the roof box.
I feel this one is a bit pricey but there might be others. In their day
they were called "Spacesaver"s.
spuorg...@gowanhill.com
May 12, 2014, 1:35:12 PM5/12/14
to
On Monday, May 12, 2014 2:20:23 PM UTC+1, Lee Nowell wrote:
> Surely there is a better solution? Any one have any cunning ideas?
This is all too much work ...
> Surely there is a better solution? Any one have any cunning ideas?
Raise the car on a hydraulic lift until the roof box engages with ceiling-mounted latches.
Perhaps more practically, instead of using pulleys, have each corner rope wind up on its own reel, 2 reels are on the same axle (front and rear axles) , then you just have to link the 2 axles by a chain. One of the axles extends to the side wall of the garage, and you then take power down by a bevel gear shaft to an operating handle at convenient height - or even use a motor. You would need to do a lot of winding with a small reel but at very low power.
Think of the rope and shaft gear used for opening large high windows.
Owain
The Medway Handyman
May 12, 2014, 2:43:12 PM5/12/14
to
On 12/05/2014 18:35, spuorg...@gowanhill.com wrote:
> On Monday, May 12, 2014 2:20:23 PM UTC+1, Lee Nowell wrote:
>> Surely there is a better solution? Any one have any cunning ideas?
>
> This is all too much work ...
>
> Raise the car on a hydraulic lift until the roof box engages with ceiling-mounted latches.
What a stupid idea.
> On Monday, May 12, 2014 2:20:23 PM UTC+1, Lee Nowell wrote:
>> Surely there is a better solution? Any one have any cunning ideas?
>
> This is all too much work ...
>
> Raise the car on a hydraulic lift until the roof box engages with ceiling-mounted latches.
Easier to raise the garage, drive the car under, then lower it.
Hydraulic jack on each corner would do the job.
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
chris French
May 12, 2014, 3:27:40 PM5/12/14
to
In message <34a75999-524a-4af6...@googlegroups.com>, Lee
Nowell <leen...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
made solution (Thule Roofbox Lift):
<http://www.skidrive.co.uk/accessories/product_detail.php?partno=571000&g
clid=CLqjlvyNp74CFUfLtAodtl0AhA>
I did have such ideas for my roofbox, but the entrance to the garage is
too low. Anyway I then got a trailer which we use for camping much of
the time, suits us much better. All the camping gear can live in there
and much easier/quicker to load the trailer when striking camp.
--
Chris French
Nowell <leen...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>Hi All,
>
>I have recently purchased a roof box and bars to store our camping gear
>ready for the next camping trip. I have a "cunning" idea that I could
>suspend the roof box (with rails attached) from the garage ceiling
>filled with our camping gear. When we go camping, I "simply" reverse
>the car into the garage, lower the box/ rails onto the car and away we
>go....
>
>I am now thinking about the pulley design and it seems a little less
>straight forward than I anticipated (either that or I am making it
>overly complex :) ) Thought process so far....
>
Maybe not in the spirit of uk.d-i-y, you could always just by a ready
>
>I have recently purchased a roof box and bars to store our camping gear
>ready for the next camping trip. I have a "cunning" idea that I could
>suspend the roof box (with rails attached) from the garage ceiling
>filled with our camping gear. When we go camping, I "simply" reverse
>the car into the garage, lower the box/ rails onto the car and away we
>go....
>
>I am now thinking about the pulley design and it seems a little less
>straight forward than I anticipated (either that or I am making it
>overly complex :) ) Thought process so far....
>
made solution (Thule Roofbox Lift):
<http://www.skidrive.co.uk/accessories/product_detail.php?partno=571000&g
clid=CLqjlvyNp74CFUfLtAodtl0AhA>
I did have such ideas for my roofbox, but the entrance to the garage is
too low. Anyway I then got a trailer which we use for camping much of
the time, suits us much better. All the camping gear can live in there
and much easier/quicker to load the trailer when striking camp.
--
Chris French
no_...@thanks.com
May 12, 2014, 4:22:20 PM5/12/14
to
On 12/05/2014 14:20, Lee Nowell wrote:
it works!
Rod Speed
May 12, 2014, 4:49:02 PM5/12/14
to
"chris French" <newspos...@familyfrench.co.uk> wrote in message
news:aQDMK0ms...@blackhole.familyfrench.co.uk...
> In message <34a75999-524a-4af6...@googlegroups.com>, Lee
> Nowell <leen...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>Hi All,
>>
>>I have recently purchased a roof box and bars to store our camping gear
>>ready for the next camping trip. I have a "cunning" idea that I could
>>suspend the roof box (with rails attached) from the garage ceiling filled
>>with our camping gear. When we go camping, I "simply" reverse the car
>>into the garage, lower the box/ rails onto the car and away we go....
>>
>>I am now thinking about the pulley design and it seems a little less
>>straight forward than I anticipated (either that or I am making it overly
>>complex :) ) Thought process so far....
>>
>
> Maybe not in the spirit of uk.d-i-y, you could always just by a ready made
> solution (Thule Roofbox Lift):
>
> <http://www.skidrive.co.uk/accessories/product_detail.php?partno=571000&g
> clid=CLqjlvyNp74CFUfLtAodtl0AhA>
Or you could just steal the rather clever design and make one yourself.
> Nowell <leen...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>Hi All,
>>
>>I have recently purchased a roof box and bars to store our camping gear
>>ready for the next camping trip. I have a "cunning" idea that I could
>>suspend the roof box (with rails attached) from the garage ceiling filled
>>with our camping gear. When we go camping, I "simply" reverse the car
>>into the garage, lower the box/ rails onto the car and away we go....
>>
>>I am now thinking about the pulley design and it seems a little less
>>straight forward than I anticipated (either that or I am making it overly
>>complex :) ) Thought process so far....
>>
>
> Maybe not in the spirit of uk.d-i-y, you could always just by a ready made
> solution (Thule Roofbox Lift):
>
> <http://www.skidrive.co.uk/accessories/product_detail.php?partno=571000&g
> clid=CLqjlvyNp74CFUfLtAodtl0AhA>
Lee Nowell
May 13, 2014, 8:05:38 AM5/13/14
to
Sorry... to clarify my revised idea....
Essentially, you would run the ropes from the 4 pulleys to the wall and secure it there (rather than on a pulley). You would then have 1 rope which would concurrently pull all 4 ropes as shown in the dodgy side on ascii diagram below (P = pulley; C = Corner)...
P------P------------ 4 ropes fixed to wall
| | ^
| | pull here with 1 rope
| |
C C
Essentially, you would run the ropes from the 4 pulleys to the wall and secure it there (rather than on a pulley). You would then have 1 rope which would concurrently pull all 4 ropes as shown in the dodgy side on ascii diagram below (P = pulley; C = Corner)...
P------P------------ 4 ropes fixed to wall
| | ^
| | pull here with 1 rope
| |
C C
Lee Nowell
May 13, 2014, 8:48:16 AM5/13/14
to
I just thought of an interesting new problem.... On the assumption that I would hoist the ropes up out of the way when the roofbox is not stored, how would I get the ropes back down again? I guess I would have to hook them or have some weights attached to them or something......
Alan Braggins
May 13, 2014, 10:18:23 AM5/13/14
to
In article <fe0a6af9-a987-44cf...@googlegroups.com>, Lee Nowell wrote:
>I just thought of an interesting new problem.... On the assumption that I would hoist the ropes up out of the way when the roofbox is not stored, how would I get the ropes back down again? I guess I would have to hook them or have some weights attached to them or something......
How about you just don't hoist them up out of the way? Have a ceiling mounted pulley close to
>I just thought of an interesting new problem.... On the assumption that I would hoist the ropes up out of the way when the roofbox is not stored, how would I get the ropes back down again? I guess I would have to hook them or have some weights attached to them or something......
the wall, rope hangs down next to the wall, coil it and hang it on the cleat you'll want anyway.
That way when you use it you'll still have the whole space clear with no ropes diagonally across
it. In other words, if you do something like this:
http://forums.quattroworld.com/allroad/msgs/132034.phtml
add an extra pulley on the roof ahead of the nose of the box, above the cleat.
Not that just leaving it like that would be too bad.
Mike Barnes
May 13, 2014, 10:32:15 AM5/13/14
to
Jump?
michael adams
May 13, 2014, 12:28:32 PM5/13/14
to
news:b2c433bb-cb6b-44a1...@googlegroups.com...
The reason that won't work is because the ropes from the
pulleys to the wall will be of all different lengths.
When you pull the single rope the length of the shortest
two ropes, those corners of the box will be touching
the ceiling, but there will still be slack in the other
two ropes.
In order for your system to work you would need the
four ropes to be joined in the middle of the ceiling.
For this to be possible you will need to drill a hole
at the appropriate point through the box and through
the car, feed the rope through this hole, and dig a pit
underneath where you can stand to pull on the rope.
You can fix a cleat hook to the wall of the pit.
If its a tight fit you may also need access stairs
of some kind to the pit.
HTH
michael adams
...
pulleys to the wall will be of all different lengths.
When you pull the single rope the length of the shortest
two ropes, those corners of the box will be touching
the ceiling, but there will still be slack in the other
two ropes.
In order for your system to work you would need the
four ropes to be joined in the middle of the ceiling.
For this to be possible you will need to drill a hole
at the appropriate point through the box and through
the car, feed the rope through this hole, and dig a pit
underneath where you can stand to pull on the rope.
You can fix a cleat hook to the wall of the pit.
If its a tight fit you may also need access stairs
of some kind to the pit.
HTH
michael adams
...
Lee Nowell
May 14, 2014, 4:46:20 AM5/14/14
to
This is starting to hurt my head :)
I can't visualise the issue unfortunately (maybe I should do a prototype). In my head (maybe mixed up!) I have a picture where at steady state with the box on the floor and all 4 ropes just taut. When I pull the single rope, it will deflect the "taut" ropes the same amount down and therefore they will all raise the same amount up. Maybe it is to do with the distance/ angle of the pull point to each of the pulleys?
I can't visualise the issue unfortunately (maybe I should do a prototype). In my head (maybe mixed up!) I have a picture where at steady state with the box on the floor and all 4 ropes just taut. When I pull the single rope, it will deflect the "taut" ropes the same amount down and therefore they will all raise the same amount up. Maybe it is to do with the distance/ angle of the pull point to each of the pulleys?
Rod Speed
May 15, 2014, 3:24:27 PM5/15/14
to
Lee Nowell <leen...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote
> This is starting to hurt my head :)
Thinking can do that with some people :-(
> I can't visualise the issue unfortunately (maybe I should do a prototype).
> In my head (maybe mixed up!) I have a picture where at steady
> state with the box on the floor and all 4 ropes just taut. When
> I pull the single rope, it will deflect the "taut" ropes the same
> amount down and therefore they will all raise the same amount up.
Not at all clear what you mean by that.
> Maybe it is to do with the distance/ angle
> of the pull point to each of the pulleys?
Nope, nothing to do with that at all.
When you pull on the 4 ropes equally, as you will if
they all join and become just one rope, they will all
go up by the same amount and do the box will rise
evenly. Because the ends of all 4 ropes will move by
the same amount, because they are all joined where
they become one rope.
It wouldn't be hard to prove using string and a small box.
> This is starting to hurt my head :)
> I can't visualise the issue unfortunately (maybe I should do a prototype).
> In my head (maybe mixed up!) I have a picture where at steady
> state with the box on the floor and all 4 ropes just taut. When
> I pull the single rope, it will deflect the "taut" ropes the same
> amount down and therefore they will all raise the same amount up.
> Maybe it is to do with the distance/ angle
> of the pull point to each of the pulleys?
When you pull on the 4 ropes equally, as you will if
they all join and become just one rope, they will all
go up by the same amount and do the box will rise
evenly. Because the ends of all 4 ropes will move by
the same amount, because they are all joined where
they become one rope.
It wouldn't be hard to prove using string and a small box.
0 new messages